Is it time for Rafa to go?

K-9

All others Yes Rafa should go

BastardPrince wrote: »

can someone link me to the cost of the 23 (or whatever number) players in the squad and the wages for the top teams, i would be surprised if man for man liverpool were even 5th in either table, therefor 5th should be rafas target, any more he is a success, any less its not.

i love all this "we should be aiming for titles", with our finance we have no right to think about titles...

also K9 good list but there is absolutely no way Aurelio on a free was a "bad buy"

True on Aurelio, a decent signing though obviously injury prone.

Roy Hodgson? :pac:

Martin O Neill? :pac:

Both aren't at the same level as Benitez.

5ForKeeps

All others Yes Rafa should go

Have to say one last thing on this thread, people have short memories and need to realise Benitez has always put the club first. Back in December 2005 he missed his own fathers funeral to stay with the team in Japan for the World Club Championship.

People should think twice before questioning does he have the best intentions for LFC and its fans.

http://forum.raotl.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157007

Mr Alan

All others Yes Rafa should go

Whatever Rafa's faults, i actually think that to a fault, he will put what's best for the club ahead of himself. If he was only interested in bolstering his bank a/c or reputation, he would have left a long time ago.

Prufrock

rarnes1 wrote: »

Roy Hodgson? :pac:

Martin O Neill? :pac:

Both aren't at the same level as Benitez.

Your right. Roy Hodgsons Fulham are still in the Europa League. :pac:

Managing Fulham and managing Liverpool are completly different jobs. Fulham are happy with were they are this season. Mid table with the added bonus of being in the final of a European cup. The expectation is lower. Also the resources available to Roy are much more limited. Hard to compare the two jobs.

Leiva

All others Yes Rafa should go

rarnes1 wrote: »

Roy Hodgson? :pac:

Martin O Neill? :pac:

Both aren't at the same level as Benitez.

Both are Premiership Class .
Rafa is world class .

If Rafa stays he better get it right in the transfer market this summer.

Johnson was a good signing if a bit too expensive.

Aqua certainly looks decent but there's some games that pass him by.

A LB and striker are badly needed. We cant go another season with one striker ffs. A winger is needed too.

And get Babel and Riera as far away from the club as possible.

5ForKeeps

All others Yes Rafa should go

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Rafa stays he better get it right in the transfer market this summer.

Johnson was a good signing if a bit too expensive.

Aqua certainly looks decent but there's some games that pass him by.

A LB and striker are badly needed. We cant go another season with one striker ffs. A winger is needed too.

And get Babel and Riera as far away from the club as possible.

Agree with all that. One more season the man deserves but he has to get it right.

KittyeeTrix

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Agree with all that. One more season the man deserves but he has to get it right.

Agree with this, it would be awful to see him go on a bad note:( after the good times he had at the club!!

Leiva

All others Yes Rafa should go

rarnes1 wrote: »

And get Babel and Riera as far away from the club as possible.

Riera is a given but Babel has been doing alot better recently .

Just hope Real Madrid don't distort the transfer market again

I would love to see us getting Benzima at a bargain , and Bastain Schweinsteiger to fill the gaping midfield hole that was left after Alonso went.

All needs to be done early ( next 8 or 10 weeks) Inc new owners .
This is one of the most important summers in the clubs history .
Get it right = back on track .
Get it wrong = decade+ of misery

M

Spiritoftheseventies

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Rafa stays he better get it right in the transfer market this summer.

Johnson was a good signing if a bit too expensive.

Aqua certainly looks decent but there's some games that pass him by.

A LB and striker are badly needed. We cant go another season with one striker ffs. A winger is needed too.

And get Babel and Riera as far away from the club as possible.

Would hold on to Babel and a good world cup may be the tournament where he can show what he is worthy of.

mixednuts

mixednuts wrote: »

Riera is a given but Babel has been doing alot better recently .

Just hope Real Madrid don't distort the transfer market again

I would love to see us getting Benzima at a bargain , and Bastain Schweinsteiger to fill the gaping midfield hole that was left after Alonso went.

All needs to be done early ( next 8 or 10 weeks) Inc new owners .
This is one of the most important summers in the clubs history .
Get it right = back on track .
Get it wrong = decade+ of misery

M

Benzema and Schweinsteiger?

Do you realise how screwed we are for money?

Both those players are way off our budget unfortunantely.

John Carew would be a more realistic signing.

Leiva

All others Yes Rafa should go

rarnes1 wrote: »

Benzema and Schweinsteiger?

Do you realise how screwed we are for money?

Both those players are way off our budget unfortunantely.

John Carew would be a more realistic signing.

My point exactly ...

We need to invest big time.
No offence to Carew but average players result in average results.
We need big singings (money) to get Liverpool back on track .
No CL football is our biggest turn off for potential future signings

MementoMori

All others Yes Rafa should go

Anyone putting forward the notion that the current squad is not massively better than what Rafa inherited is talking rot.

These are the players who were at the club when Rafa took over and the transfer fees subsequently received for them. £51,839,150 for 47 players - an average of £1,102,961 per player.

Owen 8,000,000
Baros 6,500,000
Cisse 6,000,000
Diouf 4,000,000
Riise 4,000,000
Heskey 3,500,000
Kirkland 3,000,000
Sinama-Pongolle 2,700,000
Murphy 2,500,000
Guthrie 2,500,000
Traore 2,000,000
Diarra 1,980,000
Warnock 1,500,000
Le Tallec 1,100,000
Finnan 1,000,000
Hammill 500,000
Mellor 500,000
Potter 250,000
Peltier 209,150
O'Donnell 100,000
Butler 0
Vignal 0
Babbel 0
Henchoz 0
Smicer 0
Biscan 0
Otsemobor 0
Foy 0
Welsh 0
Calliste 0
Raven 0
Medjani 0
Hamann 0
Antwi 0
Calliste 0
Raven 0
Cheyrou 0
Woods 0
Whitbread 0
Partridge 0
Smyth 0
Platt 0
Mannix 0
Diao 0
Foy 0
Dudek 0
Idrizaj 0
Smith 0
Kewell 0
Hyypia 0

Johnny Utah

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Not time to go just yet..... he still has a job to do in stopping United win the league!





(Think about it).

Job done!


Well done Rafa. Now, jog on!

monkey9

All others Yes Rafa should go

Mental Mickey wrote: »

One difference, though.........Hodgson has won a lot of trophies wherever he's been.

So has Pat Fenlon! What's your point??

wobblyknees

Mental Mickey wrote: »

One difference, though.........Hodgson has won a lot of trophies wherever he's been.

10 trophies in 34 years as manager. 2 in the last 20 years.

K-9

All others Yes Rafa should go

wobblyknees wrote: »

10 trophies in 34 years as manager. 2 in the last 20 years.

One word.

FAIL

wobblyknees

K-9 wrote: »

One word.

FAIL

9 words actually.

argosy2006

Is Claudio Ranieri a good manager, would he suit if rafa walked?
claudio seems to get sacked unfairly alot,
i wonder what 5 years at liverpool would bring us

monkey9

All others Yes Rafa should go

argosy2006 wrote: »

Is Claudio Ranieri a good manager, would he suit if rafa walked?
claudio seems to get sacked unfairly alot,
i wonder what 5 years at liverpool would bring us

Is this a joke?? I'm genuinely asking.

Cos, if you're being serious, let me just say that i disagree with you. Quite a lot.

sprinkles

I'm not a Liverpool fan and while there's a side of me that's chuffed to see the horrible way things have turned out this season there is also a part of me that hates to see a club with the tradition etc of Liverpool be ruined by the money grabbing, petulant, irresponsible goons that took over the club.

The clubs failings this season have been down to a catalogue of influences and there's no doubt that it's partly Benitez's fault imo but more so it's the constant turmoil behind the scenes that is driving the club down the league table. However bad Man U have it with the Glazers at least they keep their mouths shut and let those trusted with managing the club do just that. Far too often there have been stories about Hick/Gillett or their offspring making comments in the media about the clubs league standing or Benitez. That alone has the ability to unsettle a team. Clubs should not be run through the media. They're the American version of Gold and Sullivan! They come across as juveniles in every interview I have read and show an incredible lack of respect to Rafa who has brought more success to Liverpool in the last 5 years than the squads at his disposal deserved.

So what are Benitez's failing? He's had some poor dealings in the transfer market, but how much of that is down to him? Keane was brought in by Parry and while Benitez could or indeed should have handled it a lot better he wasn't the type of player he reckoned he needed. He's the manager, he should have that choice. Kyrgiakos has been a revelation this year, far exceeding any expectations I've had of him at the start of the season so it's certainly not all bad. Indeed almost all the top level managers have had mixed results in the transfer markets in recent years, Benitez is by far not the worst of them.

He's also been accused of being a very poor man-manager, the whole Babel incident didn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in the unity and mental strength of the squad but with such high expectations on the team at the start of the season, finding themselves fighting for that last CL spot must pile on the pressure on everyone - someone is bound to crack. This season Pennant derided his management style and claimed that he was restricting the more flamboyant players from expressing themselves, craving a certain result from each player and he demanded they deliver. Obviously there are certain players who won't or can't get on with him. How much of that is going on within the existing squad should be a worry for Liverpool fans and imo would be the biggest failing of his.

So should he go? I think he should. He's not getting the backing he craves to take the club to a title challenging position so for his own personal ambition he should leave. The only thing that will keep him is how much he does indeed love the club (assuming he's not forced to stay due Liverpool demanding an exorbitant fee for his services).

For Liverpool to rebuild they need a clear-out from the top down, starting with the Yanks. just my 2c

leninbenjamin

All others No Rafa should stay

sprinkles wrote: »

They're the American version of Gold and Sullivan!

Gold and Sullivan turned Brum from Championship strugglers into a premiership outfit. As unlikable as they are, from a footballing p.o.v. this hate for them is ridiculous!

sprinkles wrote: »

For Liverpool to rebuild they need a clear-out from the top down, starting with the Yanks. just my 2c

To be honest, Liverpool need a manager willing to work with the owners, whoever they are. Hicks and Gillet might be there for a while yet, even should they find buyers takeovers can be a slow business. Benitez is a very stubborn individual, there are plenty of potential managers out there who wouldn't have fallen out with the owners quite so quickly tbh. Benitez could learn a wee bit from Grant tbh, treated like **** by the succesion of owners in his short time at Fratton Park but he's made the best of the scraps he's been given and his stock has risen greatly for it.

Obviously I don't know fully what's gone on behind the scene, but I do think Benitez's words and actions in public made the situation at Liverpool considerably worse. At the very least he helped deepen the rift between the two and that's only put off potential buyers for the club.

sprinkles

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Gold and Sullivan turned Brum from Championship strugglers into a premiership outfit. As unlikable as they are, from a footballing p.o.v. this hate for them is ridiculous!

Sorry, I only meant that in relation to their recent ramblings at west ham, never paid much attention to them at brum. What they are doing at west ham though is effecting the team, the players have even come out and said that. Not to mention the effect on Zola.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Whatever Rafa's faults, i actually think that to a fault, he will put what's best for the club ahead of himself. If he was only interested in bolstering his bank a/c or reputation, he would have left a long time ago.

Lolz. Is he not one of the best paid managers in the world?

eagle eye

All others No Rafa should stay

MementoMori wrote: »

Anyone putting forward the notion that the current squad is not massively better than what Rafa inherited is talking rot.

These are the players who were at the club when Rafa took over and the transfer fees subsequently received for them. £51,839,150 for 47 players - an average of £1,102,961 per player.

Owen 8,000,000
Baros 6,500,000
Cisse 6,000,000
Diouf 4,000,000
Riise 4,000,000
Heskey 3,500,000
Kirkland 3,000,000
Sinama-Pongolle 2,700,000
Murphy 2,500,000
Guthrie 2,500,000
Traore 2,000,000
Diarra 1,980,000
Warnock 1,500,000
Le Tallec 1,100,000
Finnan 1,000,000
Hammill 500,000
Mellor 500,000
Potter 250,000
Peltier 209,150
O'Donnell 100,000
Butler 0
Vignal 0
Babbel 0
Henchoz 0
Smicer 0
Biscan 0
Otsemobor 0
Foy 0
Welsh 0
Calliste 0
Raven 0
Medjani 0
Hamann 0
Antwi 0
Calliste 0
Raven 0
Cheyrou 0
Woods 0
Whitbread 0
Partridge 0
Smyth 0
Platt 0
Mannix 0
Diao 0
Foy 0
Dudek 0
Idrizaj 0
Smith 0
Kewell 0
Hyypia 0

Warnock is better than any left back currently at Liverpool. Sold on from Blackburn for £8 million which makes that a very bad sale on so many levels.
Alou Diarra is another who was sold on for big money to Bordeaux, and the guy is a class act too.
Sinama-Pongolle was never a good player in my book but he too was sold on after he left Liverpool for big money.
Heskey was very unlucky at Liverpool, but imo it was a terrible sale by Benitez. The guy has proven since that he has so much to offer and for a team that likes to play one man alone up front, no better man to fight for and hold the ball up.
Danny Murphy should never have been sold either. He is still a class act.
It remains to be seen how Guthrie turns out, he did impress in the Championship this season but next season will tell the tale on that sale. I would be of the opinion though that right now he is worth triple what Liverpool sold him for.
Why was Riise sold? Did he want to go, who was there in his place? I mean he sold Warnock and Riise and has had trouble at left back since.

On Cisse, I know they wanted to sign him before Benitez took over but I distinctly remember him raving about Cisse and saying that he was looking at him while in charge at Valencia and surely that transfer could have been canceled if Benitez had really wanted that. He shouldn't be on that list. He lost £8 million when he sold Cisse.

On top of that while he has made some great signings, I can't remember one bargain that he has got. All the players that have done well for him cost a lot of money.

He has had his fair share of flops too like Babbel for £11 million is a huge flop, Riera, Pennant, Morientes and Dossena have all been expensive flops.

Oh and lets not forget the Robbie Keane saga. Of course the Rafa homers say that he never wanted Keane but there is no proof of that. So he has to take the blame there too.

whatawaster

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

eagle eye wrote: »

Warnock is better than any left back currently at Liverpool. Sold on from Blackburn for £8 million which makes that a very bad sale on so many levels.
Alou Diarra is another who was sold on for big money to Bordeaux, and the guy is a class act too.
Sinama-Pongolle was never a good player in my book but he too was sold on after he left Liverpool for big money.
Heskey was very unlucky at Liverpool, but imo it was a terrible sale by Benitez. The guy has proven since that he has so much to offer and for a team that likes to play one man alone up front, no better man to fight for and hold the ball up.
Danny Murphy should never have been sold either. He is still a class act.
It remains to be seen how Guthrie turns out, he did impress in the Championship this season but next season will tell the tale on that sale. I would be of the opinion though that right now he is worth triple what Liverpool sold him for.
Why was Riise sold? Did he want to go, who was there in his place? I mean he sold Warnock and Riise and has had trouble at left back since.

On Cisse, I know they wanted to sign him before Benitez took over but I distinctly remember him raving about Cisse and saying that he was looking at him while in charge at Valencia and surely that transfer could have been canceled if Benitez had really wanted that. He shouldn't be on that list. He lost £8 million when he sold Cisse.

Diarra had never played for Liverpool. Spent his entire time on loan. Most pool fans were glad to take money for him. One less French flop as far as we were concerned. Rafa was trying to put his own stamp on the team, by bringing in the likes of Alonso, Garcia etc. We already had Gerrard and Hamman.

Murphy is not a class act. He was a very average player for Liverpool. He was sold, along with the likes of Heskey because Rafa needed the money to bring in the likes of Xabi Alonso.

With Cisse, i'm pretty sure Liverpool had signed an agreement to buy him. Legal contracts like that aren't easily cancelled at the whim of a manager.

Riise was TERRIBLE in his last 2 years at Liverpool. Terrible. Aurelio was first choice by then anyway, he's just been very unlucky with injuries.

Guthrie was never good enough for Liverpool. Rotting on the bench here would have made him not half the player he is today (and imo that's still not good enough for Liverpool)

wobblyknees

Holy sweet mother of god. Did you have a quick scan of the tabloids before coming up with this opinion piece?

eagle eye wrote: »

Warnock is better than any left back currently at Liverpool. Sold on from Blackburn for £8 million which makes that a very bad sale on so many levels.

Warnock is being wheeled out by all and sundry who choose to forget that he was average at best and could not break into the team at the time. In a situation where Benitez was trying to raise funds to bring players in, he was sold. For a player who had been brought through as a youth and had been at the club for nearly 10 years, it was hardly surprising.

eagle eye wrote: »

Alou Diarra is another who was sold on for big money to Bordeaux, and the guy is a class act too.

Hindsight is a great thing isn't it. Alou diarra hadn't played a competitive game for Liverpool in two years prior to Benitez joining the club. Benitez ended up signing Alonso and Sissoko. Along with Gerrard, there was no place for him in the team. He has been sold twice since he was let go by Benitez and the big transfer fee you speak of was €7.75m.

eagle eye wrote: »

Sinama-Pongolle was never a good player in my book but he too was sold on after he left Liverpool for big money.

Good player. Not great. Given a chance by Benitez but was sold on to fund new signings for €4m. Since then, he's had two good seasons at recrativio (scoring 21 goals) but has since been sold on twice and is now playing in Portugal.

eagle eye wrote: »

Heskey was very unlucky at Liverpool, but imo it was a terrible sale by Benitez. The guy has proven since that he has so much to offer and for a team that likes to play one man alone up front, no better man to fight for and hold the ball up.

I'm sorry, but have you forgotton how few goals Heskey scored for Liverpool and how, for such a big player, he was outfought and fell over?? How about the fact that he was backed, to the hilt by Houllier at the expense of Robbie Fowler? Unlucky. I don't think so. For the record, since leaving Liverpool, 14 goals in two years for BC, 15 goals in three years for Wigan, and a grand total of 5 goals for Villa.

eagle eye wrote: »

Danny Murphy should never have been sold either. He is still a class act.

Danny Murphy is having a decent season with Fulham having faded at Spurs. He was sold to make way for new signings. Remembered fondly for his goals vs United, but anything else is rose tinted to say the least.

eagle eye wrote: »

It remains to be seen how Guthrie turns out, he did impress in the Championship this season but next season will tell the tale on that sale.
I would be of the opinion though that right now he is worth triple what Liverpool sold him for.

Another midfielder who was sold due to new signings, or the quality of the midfield in general. Guthrie has impressed in the Championship. I think he's found his level. I don't think, as you suggest, he is now worth £7/8m.

eagle eye wrote: »

Why was Riise sold? Did he want to go, who was there in his place? I mean he sold Warnock and Riise and has had trouble at left back since.

Riise was sold due to poor form. He also hadn't scored in over a year and a half, except for the og vs Chelsea obviously.

eagle eye wrote: »

On Cisse, I know they wanted to sign him before Benitez took over but I distinctly remember him raving about Cisse and saying that he was looking at him while in charge at Valencia and surely that transfer could have been canceled if Benitez had really wanted that. He shouldn't be on that list. He lost £8 million when he sold Cisse.

Cisse was bought and paid for a year before Benitez joined.

eagle eye wrote: »

On top of that while he has made some great signings, I can't remember one bargain that he has got. All the players that have done well for him cost a lot of money.

Compared to say Hargreaves who cost £15m and has played the same amount of games as Aquilani has in three years? How about Veron, Taibi or Djemba Djemba? Off the top of my head, Reina is a definite bargain. Alonso was a profitable bargain. Torres was a world class bargain. Especially when compared to someone like Berbatov. Crouch was a bargain as he was sold on at a profit.

eagle eye wrote: »

He has had his fair share of flops too like Babbel for £11 million is a huge flop, Riera, Pennant, Morientes and Dossena have all been expensive flops.

All managers make mistakes, Benitez is no different. You mention four £6m pound signins. The difference is, he doesn't get to hide these mistakes with other £15/20/30m signings.

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh and lets not forget the Robbie Keane saga. Of course the Rafa homers say that he never wanted Keane but there is no proof of that. So he has to take the blame there too.

Yes, lets not forget the Robbie Keane saga. He failed to perform and was sold. He since been moved on by old arry himself having again faded. He has found his level in Scotland.

Mental Mickey

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

wobblyknees wrote: »

Holy sweet mother of god. Did you have a quick scan of the tabloids before coming up with this opinion piece?



Warnock is being wheeled out by all and sundry who choose to forget that he was average at best and could not break into the team at the time. In a situation where Benitez was trying to raise funds to bring players in, he was sold. For a player who had been brought through as a youth and had been at the club for nearly 10 years, it was hardly surprising.



Hindsight is a great thing isn't it. Alou diarra hadn't played a competitive game for Liverpool in two years prior to Benitez joining the club. Benitez ended up signing Alonso and Sissoko. Along with Gerrard, there was no place for him in the team. He has been sold twice since he was let go by Benitez and the big transfer fee you speak of was €7.75m.



Good player. Not great. Given a chance by Benitez but was sold on to fund new signings for €4m. Since then, he's had two good seasons at recrativio (scoring 21 goals) but has since been sold on twice and is now playing in Portugal.



I'm sorry, but have you forgotton how few goals Heskey scored for Liverpool and how, for such a big player, he was outfought and fell over?? How about the fact that he was backed, to the hilt by Houllier at the expense of Robbie Fowler? Unlucky. I don't think so. For the record, since leaving Liverpool, 14 goals in two years for BC, 15 goals in three years for Wigan, and a grand total of 5 goals for Villa.



Danny Murphy is having a decent season with Fulham having faded at Spurs. He was sold to make way for new signings. Remembered fondly for his goals vs United, but anything else is rose tinted to say the least.




Another midfielder who was sold due to new signings, or the quality of the midfield in general. Guthrie has impressed in the Championship. I think he's found his level. I don't think, as you suggest, he is now worth £7/8m.




Riise was sold due to poor form. He also hadn't scored in over a year and a half, except for the og vs Chelsea obviously.



Cisse was bought and paid for a year before Benitez joined.



Compared to say Hargreaves who cost £15m and has played the same amount of games as Aquilani has in three years? How about Veron, Taibi or Djemba Djemba? Off the top of my head, Reina is a definite bargain. Alonso was a profitable bargain. Torres was a world class bargain. Especially when compared to someone like Berbatov. Crouch was a bargain as he was sold on at a profit.



All managers make mistakes, Benitez is no different. You mention four £6m pound signins. The difference is, he doesn't get to hide these mistakes with other £15/20/30m signings.



Yes, lets not forget the Robbie Keane saga. He failed to perform and was sold. He since been moved on by old arry himself having again faded. He has found his level in Scotland.

He was brought into the club, by Rick Parry, over Benitez's head. Benitez didn't want him. It wasn't that he failed to perform, he wasn't given a chance.

wobblyknees

Mental Mickey wrote: »

He was brought into the club, by Rick Parry, over Benitez's head. Benitez didn't want him. It wasn't that he failed to perform, he wasn't given a chance.

I agree, I think this is close to the truth. I prefer to focus on the fact that he was crap. As it's a much easier reason to justify why he was sold at a loss of £3m.

Mental Mickey

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

wobblyknees wrote: »

I agree, I think this is close to the truth. I prefer to focus on the fact that he was crap. As it's a much easier reason to justify why he was sold at a loss of £3m.

I wouldn't agree that he was crap.

whatawaster

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

Mental Mickey wrote: »

He was brought into the club, by Rick Parry, over Benitez's head. Benitez didn't want him. It wasn't that he failed to perform, he wasn't given a chance.

He wasn't good enough.

Good enough to be a squad player at Liverpool? Definitely
Would that have been good enough for him? No
Could we afford a 20m player on the bench? No

Torres and Gerrard last season formed the most lethal partnership in the league. Keane was not going to break that. So unless he was willing to do one of the following things:
1. Play out wide
2. Sit on the bench for most games when Torres and Gerrard were fit,

he had to go

wobblyknees

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that he was crap.

Those who seen his (lack of) effort vs his former club at the time and his grand total of 5 goals would disagree.

whatawaster

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

There is no way Keane was bought without Rafa's ultimate approval. He may not have been his first choice, but Rafa would have ok'd it.

He would not be manager here today if they'd gone over his head with almost his entire transfer budget

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Torres and Gerrard last season formed the most lethal partnership in the league.

Meh. Lampard played alot of Games behind Anelka last season, in a similar setup to the Torres / Gerrard partnership. Even Rooney / Ronaldo. Both sets outscored them in the league. They had a good understanding but lets not lose the run of ourselves.

whatawaster wrote: »

1. Play out wide

He can't play out wide, Gerrard can though and was an option.

whatawaster wrote: »

2. Sit on the bench for most games when Torres and Gerrard were fit,

If he had stayed and been played the past 2 seasons he would have a similar appearance record as Torres.

Mr Alan

All others Yes Rafa should go

you gonna miss us boggles?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

you gonna miss us boggles?

Not you.

MaceFace

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

whatawaster wrote: »

There is no way Keane was bought without Rafa's ultimate approval. He may not have been his first choice, but Rafa would have ok'd it.

He would not be manager here today if they'd gone over his head with almost his entire transfer budget

I agree. I think the problem was that Benitez gave a list of players to Parry that he would like to sign. He never expected Parry to go out and use the entire budget on just Keane.

whatawaster

Liverpool fans No Rafa should stay

Boggles wrote: »

Meh. Lampard played alot of Games behind Anelka last season, in a similar setup to the Torres / Gerrard partnership. Even Rooney / Ronaldo. Both sets outscored them in the league. They had a good understanding but lets not lose the run of ourselves.

Gerrard and Torres played together about 15 times in the league last season. As a duo, there was far more understanding, linking up, setting up goals for each other relative to the time they played together, than anyone else

Mr Alan

All others Yes Rafa should go

Ush1

Boggles wrote: »

If he had stayed and been played the past 2 seasons he would have a similar appearance record as Torres.

Yes but that's the point. He would not have been played if Torres and Gerrard were fit. Or do you mean mean because Torres has been out so much over the past 2 seasons?

Boggles

whatawaster wrote: »

Gerrard and Torres played together about 15 times in the league last season. As a duo, there was far more understanding, linking up, setting up goals for each other relative to the time they played together, than anyone else

Have you stats to prove that compared to other "partnerships" or is that just your opinion?

How do you gauge it, do you take snap shot of about 15 games from another partnership?

If you do the goals / assists to minute on pitch ratio it's a heavily biased stat.

No you can't you have to gauge over a season or at least the majority of season, the fact is your basing your arguement in that if they remained fit, which is just speculation. Achieved always trumps the possiblity of achievement.