Does religion have a place in 6th Year Graduations?

Einhard

aDeener wrote: »

dont like it dont go to it!

its like those damn marrow fat peas that somehow keep ending up on my plate, i dont eat them

And what if there's nothing to eat in your town but marrowfat peas? What do you do then? Starve?

hotmail.com

Religion has no impact in the teaching of maths, Irish, English, geography, science, history and so on and so on. Why do we have these religious schools.

robinph

Seachmall wrote: »

Everyone at the same time I think, unless they did it when you got the Eucharist (which I didn't, so they might have).

Something along the lines of everyone goes up to get their bits of paper, the ones that do go and stand in the corner, the ones that don't go and sit back down. Bloke then throws some water or whatever it is at the ones that do want it. Everyone else sits and watches without being offended at missing out, or unduly religionified.

quicklickpaddy

Einhard wrote: »

I don't think it's an issue of wishing to avoid religion, more a desire not to be forced into anything against your will. Wouldn't it be fairer and more practical to have a simple opt in policy for the blessing ceremony, rather than tell those who don't wish to take part that they can move to another town or school? Especially seen as at least 30% don't want to participate?

Yeah I completely agree with you. I think I said earlier that for most people it doesn't have to be a big issue but if you really really want to moving is usually an option (at least it is in built up areas). Not participating in the Catholic activities is obviously the best solution - that's what I was getting at by saying not having to adopt beliefs but you still have to do that respectfully.

Seachmall

hotmail.com wrote: »

Why do we have these religious schools.

Schools needed funding and the Church stepped up because they know you can't teach adults that there's an invisible man in the sky, you have to get them when they're kids!

Seloth

In the two secondary schools I've been too((First public and the 5th and 6th year in a private grinds one))Its never been a problem.

Any church event is generally optional and my old school was founded by presentation brothers who were still of its board.The school I'm in now we have a end of year mass but again optional but most go,no one really gives two ****s tbh its just mass.

Relgion in school for example,the subject taught other religouse studies as well and wasnt all ways a religiouse class,again in my old school they have it once a week((not as a school subject)) but in it they discuss philoshpe,drugs,social problems etc.

Religion isnt a problem generally in schools,well atleast most Irish schools and sher if you dont want to sit through somthing then you dont have too,if teachers complain then parents can call in.

mloc

No.

ChocolateSauce

OP, Get religion TF out of school, is my opinion. You should tell the school and the principle to piss off if they're trying to force this on you. What're they going to do, expel you? They can't block your leaving cert.

Miss Lockhart

Pittens wrote: »

Really? even very small towns seem to have at least one vocational school.

In my experience vocational schools in Ireland have a very strong Catholic influence. I went to one and teach in one and in the many VEC schools I'm familiar with, there is a mass for every event - including graduation.

It's something I'm very uncomfortable with. Don't get me wrong - nobody is forced into anything and they are happy for people to opt out, but I still don't think Catholic (or any other religious) ceremonies should be at the centre of any event in a VEC school.

Even recently, where I teach, we paused for the Our Father over the intercom to mark the passing of a former pupil. I was very uncomfortable with this as an atheist and I'm sure some our non-Christian students and staff were too. Why we couldn't simply have paused for a moment of general reflection is beyond me.

Seloth

In my old school again the few muslims that were in it didnt give two ****s,its just Irish culture,same with any athesits.

Pittens

In my old school again the few muslims that were in it didnt give two ****s,its just Irish culture,same with any athesits.

The remarkable thing is just how controlling these Catholic schools are and yet all the ANGRY ATHEISTS are graduates of said schools.

Very Bad Job done by Evil Mind Controlling Catholics.

Pittens

By the way what ever happened to ideas of multi-culturalism, which would have to include multiple different types of faith schools from Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish and Muslim as well as secular schools.

When did that go out of fashion?

Nodin

Pittens wrote: »

By the way what ever happened to ideas of multi-culturalism, which would have to include multiple different types of faith schools from Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish and Muslim as well as secular schools.

When did that go out of fashion?

I wasn't aware that multi-culturalism had a specific educational policy attached to it.

Ideally everyone goes to secular schools, and learns how their Jesus is the best in their own time.

owenc

Well, in our school they send out letters to the people whos parents signed a form to say that they want their children to attend church services, of which they sign if they want to go.. most people don't go though.

Mr. CooL ICE

eightyfish wrote: »

We had a mass to end the year during my 6th year too, in 2000. The students got the chance to pick the song that was played at the end of the mass. Survey sheets went around, collected by students, and after a couple of days the chosen song turned out to be... 'Smack My Bitch Up' by The Prodigy.

Says it all really.

No, they didn't let us use it.

Hehe, we used the intro of One by Metallica

Des Carter

Ha HA this is funny because of the amount of students who wear religious medallions during the leaving.

Killer_banana

I'm in leaving cert now and out graduation ceremony is a mass. I don't agree with it personally and quite a lot of other people I know don't either.

I do realise that I chose my school but no matter where I'd have chosen I would have to have gone to a catholic school and they all (in Galway at least) seem to put as much, if not more, emphasis on religion than my current school.

I have no issue with catholic schools at all, I just think there should be more schools for people of different faiths or no faith at all. Educate Together schools have children of all faiths and they learn about a wide range of religions and celebrate the holidays of the all as well. I don't see why they aren't secondary schools like that.

owenc

Killer_banana wrote: »

I'm in leaving cert now and out graduation ceremony is a mass. I don't agree with it personally and quite a lot of other people I know don't either.

I do realise that I chose my school but no matter where I'd have chosen I would have to have gone to a catholic school and they all (in Galway at least) seem to put as much, if not more, emphasis on religion than my current school.

I have no issue with catholic schools at all, I just think there should be more schools for people of different faiths or no faith at all. Educate Together schools have children of all faiths and they learn about a wide range of religions and celebrate the holidays of the all as well. I don't see why they aren't secondary schools like that.

Do they not just have schools for no religion there, here we have catholic schools and then schools with no religion for anyone to join, theres no such thing as a protestant school either, i think its kind of chidish basing school on religion.

Mike 1972

Pittens wrote: »

By the way what ever happened to ideas of multi-culturalism, which would have to include multiple different types of faith schools from Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish and Muslim as well as secular schools.

When did that go out of fashion?

Possibly when it was realised that that to do so in just about every town in Ireland (and area of Dublin/Cork/Limerick) might just present some practical difficulties (not to mention that segregation is not a terribly good idea either)

owenc wrote: »

Do they not just have schools for no religion there, here we have catholic schools and then schools with no religion for anyone to join, theres no such thing as a protestant school either, i think its kind of chidish basing school on religion.

There are "Christian" and "Methodist" schools in Belfast but most of the Schools are either State Schools or Roman Catholic.

Although the 1947 Education act in the UK does include a requirement for "assembly" in state schools "of a broadly Christian nature" (open to correction on the precise terminology) although Im led to believe that a lot of mainland UK schools ignore this.

In the Republic virtually all schools are either Roman Catholic, Protestant or "Multidenominational" (with the overwhelming majority being Catholic) in many parts of the country there are no non-RC schools or any which do exist are fee paying or hopelessly oversubscribed

SeaFields

Prob been mentioned before but this is what I'd do.

A representation of students meets with the teachers organising the graduation ceremony and the principal. Make it clear that ye wished to be seen as equals in this meeting rather than the usual teacher-student relationship.

Air the views that ye do not see a part for religion in your graduation ceremony. As the ceremony is about the students and not the school, ask that the wishes of the student body is respected.

Say ye feel ye will have to organise a separate ceremony if the school persists with its policy.

Maturity is the key here OP.


Let us know how ye go!

owenc

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Possibly when it was realised that that to do so in just about every town in Ireland (and area of Dublin/Cork/Limerick) might just present some practical difficulties (not to mention that segregation is not a terribly good idea either)



There are "Christian" and "Methodist" schools in Belfast but most of the Schools are either State Schools or Roman Catholic.

Although the 1947 Education act in the UK does include a requirement for "assembly" in state schools "of a broadly Christian nature" (open to correction on the precise terminology) although Im led to believe that a lot of mainland UK schools ignore this.

In the Republic virtually all schools are either Roman Catholic, Protestant or "Multidenominational" (with the overwhelming majority being Catholic) in many parts of the country there are no non-RC schools or any which do exist are fee paying or hopelessly oversubscribed

Yes but those schools are far and few between, most of these so called state schools are protestant as said on wikipedia as there is no were for them to go.. but still no religion is involved! Well in our primary school (which was a protestant majority) we had a reading from the bible and then that was all, we sang hymns and then had grace at dinner lol! Then in our secondary school which dosn't have any majority as its a grammar school, we have a hmyn and then a bible reading and a prayer. I think the catholic schools make then goto church (mass) everyweek, they make them learn irish and they FORCE them to do their confirmation and the communion thing. Then in the catholic secondary schools you do pretty much the same except for confirmations etc, and you have no choice you are also forced to learn irish, but not forced to learn anything else. My next door neighbour even says that they have a room were the priest comes in and does confessions!!

Mike 1972

owenc wrote: »

I think the catholic schools make then go to church (mass) everyweek, they make them learn irish

As far as Im aware Irish is not compulsary in RC schools here (or at least not all of them) and I know of at least one RC school which is attended by kids from Hindu and Muslim (among others) families.

Presumably they wont be forced to go through communion ceremonies ???

Anyway were going slightly O/T here ?

McChubbin

eightyfish wrote: »

We had a mass to end the year during my 6th year too, in 2000. The students got the chance to pick the song that was played at the end of the mass. Survey sheets went around, collected by students, and after a couple of days the chosen song turned out to be... 'Smack My Bitch Up' by The Prodigy.

Says it all really.

No, they didn't let us use it.

It came down to either James Taylor's "You've got A Friend" or Green Day's "Time Of Your Life" in my school. Pretty close battle, it was... ended up with James Taylor. I was annoyed, being the only person who voted for "Another Brick In The Wall"...

On the plus side, my graduation ceromony involved little religous namby-pamby as there was a seperate mass on in the church over the road. I wen to an all-girls Catholic school but when I first started, they were in the middle of phasing out the nuns.
Made things easy, IMO...

owenc

Mike 1972 wrote: »

As far as Im aware Irish is not compulsary in RC schools here (or at least not all of them) and I know of at least one RC school which is attended by kids from Hindu and Muslim (among others) families.

Presumably they wont be forced to go through communion ceremonies ???

Anyway were going slightly O/T here ?

No ,the non-catholics don't do it but if the catholic dosn't do it my friend tells me the teacher isn't very happy with them!!! Sorry I was just telling him about the assembly thing. I always go off track.:rolleyes::rolleyes: Are you in antrim town? Just wondering where abouts in antrim you were.

argonaut

hotmail.com wrote: »

Religion has no impact in the teaching of maths, Irish, English, geography, science, history and so on and so on. Why do we have these religious schools.

Simply put, it's because, for many years, Ireland was pretty much the Church's bitch.

Anyway, I went to a CBS school, not because I'm religious in the slightest - or that my parents are - but because it was near where I lived, cheap, and, hey, my friends were going there which is really what you care about as a kid. Naturally, the Catholicism was kind of creepy at times, but you got used to it. And, uh, no, we weren't forced to go to Mass or anything like that, but I suppose the school was really just nominally Catholic more than anything.

That said, if you're in a state school, of course there shouldn't be religion involved. I'm not even sure how including religion in that context can be justified tbh.

Mike 1972

owenc wrote: »

Are you in antrim town? Just wondering where abouts in antrim you were.

Antrim town yes. Been here about four years.

owenc wrote: »

I always go off track.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

No worries. I do it all the time........:o

owenc

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Antrim town yes. Been here about four years.



No worries. I do it all the time........:o

Ok thanks just wondering, cause its kind of rare on here to acutally find someone from up here like up here lol.

Lone Stone

I got kicked out my religion class in 6th year kapow !!!

How ever i do think you guys are doing the right thing with the petition goodluck :pac:

gino85

i dont think they should have it during the graduation to respect the folk who follow another religion or are athiest but maybe they could have it earlier during the day for the students who want to go to it

Cook!eMonster

Well my school is a community school, and we have an element of religion to the ceremony, the first half is mainly religious, and the second half is all about us and out memories. We are a Catholic school though, not an Educate Together or anything, so there is a definite aspect of religion there, luckily, it doesnt take over our whole ceremony

aDeener

Einhard wrote: »

And what if there's nothing to eat in your town but marrowfat peas? What do you do then? Starve?

go to the next town where they have delicious garden peas

skywalker_208

argonaut wrote: »

Simply put, it's because, for many years, Ireland was pretty much the Church's bitch.
.

Agreed. Had the same crap in my final year a few years go. Mass at the end of it.. all got blessed etc. Couldnt opt out of it either or you would be the black sheep. Absolutely rediculous and unnecessary

Xluna

No,of course it does'nt.

twinQuins

aDeener wrote: »

go to the next town where they have delicious garden peas

The solution to life's problems isn't to ignore them. It's high time people learned that the status quo can - and should - be challenged.

Mike 1972

skywalker_208 wrote: »

Couldnt opt out of it either or you would be the black sheep.

Whats so bad about being the Black sheep ?

I mean seriously in a few weeks/months youll be out of the damn place and can look back and laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

Noreen1

owenc wrote: »

Yes but those schools are far and few between, most of these so called state schools are protestant as said on wikipedia as there is no were for them to go.. but still no religion is involved! Well in our primary school (which was a protestant majority) we had a reading from the bible and then that was all, we sang hymns and then had grace at dinner lol! Then in our secondary school which dosn't have any majority as its a grammar school, we have a hmyn and then a bible reading and a prayer. I think the catholic schools make then goto church (mass) everyweek, they make them learn irish and they FORCE them to do their confirmation and the communion thing. Then in the catholic secondary schools you do pretty much the same except for confirmations etc, and you have no choice you are also forced to learn irish, but not forced to learn anything else. My next door neighbour even says that they have a room were the priest comes in and does confessions!!

Eh?

Well, like the vast majority of people in Ireland, I went to a secondary school with a Catholic majority. There were several Protestants, of different denominations attending the same school.

As it happens, one of my close friends happened to belong to one of the minority denominations. I remember asking her if she felt marginalised in any way, (probably not the word I used as a teenager:D),and she seemed genuinely surprised at the idea.

RC went to their own religious instruction class, other denonimations went to theirs - no big deal, really.

If there was a mass for a particular event (death of a student, or whatever), Catholics basically attended, or were collected by their parents (unusual, but happened occasionally) Protestants were welcome to attend, or otherwise, entirely as they chose. Alternative activities were arranged by the school for those of the Protestant denominations.
It seems to me that due respect was shown for all denominations

Noreen

Nightwish

I went to a Catholic school and of course the graduation ceremony was called the Graduation Mass. I simply didnt go. I dont part take in Mass unless it is something to do with family and it would be insulting not to go i.e. funerals, weddings etc. I know it seems drastic to miss out on graduation but I didnt like most of the people I was in school with so that influenced my decision.

Mike 1972

Nightwish wrote: »

I know it seems drastic to miss out on graduation.

Not really

Terri26

eightyfish wrote: »

We had a mass to end the year during my 6th year too, in 2000. The students got the chance to pick the song that was played at the end of the mass. Survey sheets went around, collected by students, and after a couple of days the chosen song turned out to be... 'Smack My Bitch Up' by The Prodigy.

Says it all really.

No, they didn't let us use it.

Not allowing you to play "smack my bitch up" I assume was banned not just because it was a mass. Even in a secular school service I doubt any school would allow it as it is not appropriate

What must students fail realise is this is the school's graduation. They make the rules. In universities it's the same. The university decide where you sit, what happens and in the case of Trinity College the colour scheme you have to wear. Yes some people chose to ignore this and that's their chouce. However the rules remain the same.
In our school there are two parts to the graduation. Firstly the mass and the second part is the secular service where we give out the awards, do the speeches etc. Our students do not have to go up for communion if they do not wish to but we do expect them to respect the wishes of those who want to.

eightyfish

Terri26 wrote: »

Not allowing you to play "smack my bitch up" I assume was banned not just because it was a mass. Even in a secular school service I doubt any school would allow it as it is not appropriate

Em, well yes obviously. My point was that the majority of students didn't take the mass seriously by nominating that song. In fact, the only people who took it seriously were the priests.

--LOS--

eightyfish wrote: »

We had a mass to end the year during my 6th year too, in 2000. The students got the chance to pick the song that was played at the end of the mass. Survey sheets went around, collected by students, and after a couple of days the chosen song turned out to be... 'Smack My Bitch Up' by The Prodigy.

Says it all really.

No, they didn't let us use it.

Ours was sweet child of mine, just coz

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

More importantly OP, does religion have a place in todays world?

Corkfeen

OP I vote you do a reading for the mass. T'would go something along the lines of this, "A reading from the book of Dawkins, The God Delusion" . My logic for my graduation mass is that I can snooze off during it......:eek:

Lollipops23

Myself and another girl in my class campaigned to drop all religious crap from the ceremony-which was referred to as a mass. Our argument was that apart from other atheists/agnostics in the year we also had a Muslim,a Jehovah's Witness, a Morman and a Protestant in the year and it was unfair to exclude them in this way. We managed a compromise in the end-we had non-relisious music and readings/poems that were non-demotional. It was a 1st for our school (which was a community college), am proud we managed that much

tfitzgerald

do you think the jews or muslims would stop ther services just to keep the r c happy NO ,the priest is blessing and saying prayers for the class leave him alone if he was putting a curse on them then they would have reason to complain . A lot of these students will be like stalin on his deathbed crying for a priest to forgive him for his sins

argonaut

tfitzgerald wrote: »

do you think the jews or muslims would stop ther services just to keep the r c happy NO ,the priest is blessing and saying prayers for the class leave him alone if he was putting a curse on them then they would have reason to complain.

You're missing the point, though. Unless I misunderstand the OP, he's in a community, i.e. state-run, school, and as such it's just plain wrong to involve religion in the graduation ceremony. Religion and government, I'm sure you'd agree, should be seperate.

Assuming you're a Catholic, would you like to be subjected to, say, a Protestant sermon for your graduation? I think not.

A lot of these students will be like stalin on his deathbed crying for a priest to forgive him for his sins

Oh, and there's literally no evidence this ever happened, FWIW.

eightyfish

--LOS-- wrote: »

Ours was sweet child of mine, just coz

Sweet Jesus!
That's horrible. I wouldn't wish that song on anyone.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

A lot of these students will be like stalin on his deathbed crying for a priest to forgive him for his sins

What!?!?!?

philologos

old hippy wrote: »

He or she probably doesn't have much say in what school they go to, don't you think?

In an ideal world, religion would not be involved in schools and people could choose at age 21 or whatever, if they wish to be one religion or no religion.

But I digress

I chose to believe in Christianity when I was 17, illegal?

Ideal to deny people free choice until 21 about what they believe? By the by, people will believe things even if they aren't 21. It would be very difficult to legislate.

Why 21 can I ask?

Mike 1972

tfitzgerald wrote: »

stalin on his deathbed crying for a priest to forgive him for his sins

And the reliable source you have to back this up is...............?

Seloth

Tbh thought religion dosent play a huge role in most schoolsmthe odd mass and maybe a religion class which dosent specify on religion generally((Or a single one)) so there dosent seem to be a huge problem with it.

Look most people in Ireland if theist aree obviosuly very open ones,so no one will force it down your throat,and there seems to be the exact same amout of extremists from both sides if you look around,but in general people dont reqignise the Atheist theist...they mostly protest online :P...in comparision to the guy I once saw which held a twig up with a cardbboard sign saying Jesus.

Rather than argue about it discuss it and share ideas,I've had some brilliant conversations with a Muslim mate of mine((Ironically is more abiding to the religion than his parents,the mother drinking,the father Smoking and his sister a lesbian hah..oh I love Irony))