Series 5, Episode 5 - "Flesh and Stone"

Daemos

So, just under an hour to go to this so might as well start a thread on it

Here are some clips from it to whet your appetite for another while:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAP7cpb_cKE

Hopefully it'll live up to last week's episode, and since Moffat wrote it I expect it to live up to those expectations

doctorwhogirl

Well that got a bit full on and random at the end!?!

Rowley Birkin QC

Amy Pond, you little gem!

Daemos

Well, that ending caught me off guard, I don't know where to start with this one

Agent J

What? ... What? ..... What... What?

ixoy

Excellent episode - tense and the Weeping Angels were used very well. Some of the scariest moments since, well "Blink". Having Amy walk by them with her eyes closed was particularly well done.

We also got far more on those cracks in time and how they're no longer so random. At least their appearance now ties in directly with the story and there's a nice way to tie-in why nobody remembers certain events (like the Cyber King - although we could forgive people for forgetting that one).

I also thought Matt Smith was very good here and I'm really enjoying his Doctor. Yes, we're only five episodes in but so far he's my favourite Doctor since the revival.

As to the end - yes it might seem random but we did know Amy was obsessed with the Doctor. He was the man who was going to take her away to a fabulous new life and she waited decades for him. Her reaction, might have seemed odd, but was probably the result of all the emotion and terror and feeling she had to act now before she lost her chance.
I did like the Doctor's reaction of pushing her away (and how he was taken completely off guard as well). It'll be interesting to see how he treats Amy from now on, if their relationship will change.

Pittens

Firstly a great episode. Amy having to keep her eye shut, the way they were all picked off, the links back to episode 1. Fantastic.

Unfortunately most of the debate will be on the end scene. I have always found the demand for no attraction between the companion and a young Doctor to be utterly ridiculous. He is saving the either the Earth, another planet, or the unverse everyday. I mean that is fairly Alpha male. Also has a great pad. There's a swimming pool and a library in there somewhere.

The other option is Rory the Nursing Assistant from the village. Come on. Thats the unlikely bit. A real amy born in a small village ( as the actress was) does not date Rory's, she might date Jeffs. She is , after all, model good looking.

This is the best way to deal with the sexual tension rather than not mentioning it. She tries it on, he rebuffs, so no more mooching a la the black girl, or the Doctor falling in love ( a al Rose).

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Without fail, every Saturday, my family somehow manage to ruin Doctor Who time for me...
Thought it was epic, but will have to watch it again tonight when everyone else has f**ked off to bed... Doesn't matter how many times I explain to them that for 45 minutes every Saturday everyone needs to leave me the f**k alone, they do the opposite...
Sorry about the rant - needed to get it off my chest...
Can't wait to watch it properly later on...

Pittens

Also Moffat is a very fine writer. Not just as a story teller but a writer of lines.

"I wish I'd got to know you better",
"I think you've seen me at my best"

Killer_banana

Wow where to start with this one?

Absolutely amazing episode and far scarier than a lot of recent horror films. The Angels 'laughter' was spine tingling and them making Amy countdown for fun really showcased the cruelty of their race. The angels moving was a bit disappointing but they're the aliens that you're never meant to see move, of course it'd never live up to expectations.

The scene when the Doctor was trying to get Amy to remember was truly heartbreaking. Matt and Karen have such great chemistry (not necessarily romantically) and it really enhances their performances. Also Karen is amazingly good conveying emotion even with her eyes closed.

I'm looking forward to River's next appearance already. There were some brilliant moments between her and the Doctor and I really cannot wait to find out more about her. I still think she's his wife but that there's a some twist to it at the same time. I think it's the Doctor she killed but then again so does everyone..they didn't really try to make you think anything else.

The kiss. I knew it was coming as soon as I saw what jumper she was wearing last week (I remember the most pointless things). However I did not expect that. I loved it, much better than companions constantly pining over the Doctor who can't/won't love them (and that's coming from fan
Rose/Doctor romance before they took it too far). And loved the Doctor's clueless-ness.

The realisation of the numbers' significance was very well done too. I'm going to shut up now because I'm being disgustingly fangirly and I commend anyone who's read this whole post.

Oh just remembered, anyone notice the reference to the crack? and no I don't mean when they were actually talking about the crack.

Pittens

and no I don't mean when they were actually talking about the crack.

Intriguing.

Killer_banana

Pittens wrote: »

Intriguing.

Well it was more a reference to the first episode than to the crack. There's an 'image' hiding in the background of a scene.

Pittens

Go on, put it in spoilers.

Killer_banana

Haha yeah, dunno why I didn't in the beginning, just like power I guess. :P

I can't remember exactly what part of the scene it's in but when River and the Doctor are in the teleport room place the screen's behind River are flickering and the image of the Atraxi as seen through Amy's wall (the giant eyeball) appears several times. It's in black and white and very grainy but I'm almost sure that's what it is..then again I have been known to read too much into things.

Ridley

Pittens wrote: »

Firstly a great episode. Amy having to keep her eye shut, the way they were all picked off, the links back to episode 1. Fantastic.

I agree for the most part but I call shenanigans on her not being attacked because the Angels were distracted or something.

Pittens wrote: »

Unfortunately most of the debate will be on the end scene. I have always found the demand for no attraction between the companion and a young Doctor to be utterly ridiculous. He is saving the either the Earth, another planet, or the unverse everyday. I mean that is fairly Alpha male. Also has a great pad. There's a swimming pool and a library in there somewhere.

The other option is Rory the Nursing Assistant from the village. Come on. Thats the unlikely bit. A real amy born in a small village ( as the actress was) does not date Rory's, she might date Jeffs. She is , after all, model good looking.

I'd say Amy's interest in the Doctor is like a little girl in love with a boy band. And Jeffs probably aren't willing to dress up as childhood fantasies for the psychologically damaged.

There's a good argument somewhere in saying that the Doctor has ruined Amy's life. The first episode said it itself, Rory is the nurse that can't become a doctor.

Pittens wrote: »

This is the best way to deal with the sexual tension rather than not mentioning it. She tries it on, he rebuffs, so no more mooching a la the black girl, or the Doctor falling in love ( a al Rose).

Martha.

aidan_walsh

Killer_banana wrote: »

Haha yeah, dunno why I didn't in the beginning, just like power I guess. :P

I can't remember exactly what part of the scene it's in but when River and the Doctor are in the teleport room place the screen's behind River are flickering and the image of the Atraxi as seen through Amy's wall (the giant eyeball) appears several times. It's in black and white and very grainy but I'm almost sure that's what it is..then again I have been known to read too much into things.

I thought at first that that was what it was too but it seemed more like just a read out on a malfunctioning display.

Killer_banana

aidan_walsh wrote: »

I thought at first that that was what it was too but it seemed more like just a read out on a malfunctioning display.

Maybe. Sure I'm watching it again this evening so I'll see then.

nommm

Did anybody else notice that the doctor's coat magically appeared back on him when he was telling Amy to 'remember what he told her when she was 7'?

jimbob_jones

nommm wrote: »

Did anybody else notice that the doctor's coat magically appeared back on him when he was telling Amy to 'remember what he told her when she was 7'?

I saw that too, and I thought it was a mistake but if the Doctor did leave with River and Octavian then could it be the Doctor coming back to the event from later on in this series ?

Or is it just a mistake ?

BuffyBot

At least their appearance now ties in directly with the story and there's a nice way to tie-in why nobody remembers certain events (like the Cyber King - although we could forgive people for forgetting that one).

Couldn't help but think that was a subtle dig at the RTD era. Maybe I just want it to be.

Excellent episode, it must be said!

Gambler

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Without fail, every Saturday, my family somehow manage to ruin Doctor Who time for me...
Thought it was epic, but will have to watch it again tonight when everyone else has f**ked off to bed... Doesn't matter how many times I explain to them that for 45 minutes every Saturday everyone needs to leave me the f**k alone, they do the opposite...
Sorry about the rant - needed to get it off my chest...
Can't wait to watch it properly later on...

I always record it and watch it later rather than trying to watch it when I can be interrupted

Aoifums

BuffyBot wrote: »

Couldn't help but think that was a subtle dig at the RTD era. Maybe I just want it to be.

I thought it was an "I don't like the way you did things, so I'm going to pretend they didn't happen!" type thing.

Anway, I liked the episode. They angels' laughter bloody terrified me and them moving was annoying.
But Amy walking like she could see was cool.

Penn

Regarding the Angels moving, the only thing that really bothered me about it was how slowly they moved.

Chrussell2

I just watched episode one again on iplayer, and I noticed that when the Doctor picks Amy up, the night before her wedding. They're standing in the TARDIS and the screen is making a funny noise. As the camera does a close-up of the screen you can see the crack from amy's wall on the screen.... thought it was worth letting you know about.

mewso

I thought it was an ok episode. The scene where Amy has to pretend she can see the Angels didn't really work for me. So as long as they think you can see them they can't move. It's like some kind of parlour game then. The idea that your eyes upon them would cause them to become immobile makes more sense to me and gives the original "don't blink" idea the tension. Now it's "don't blink unless you can do so in a way that fools the Angels into being unaware you are blinking". As a two parter though overall I enjoyed it. Am I wrong in thinking people are less inclined to be negatively critical now that RTD is no longer in charge?

Doctor DooM

mewso wrote: »

As a two parter though overall I enjoyed it. Am I wrong in thinking people are less inclined to be negatively critical now that RTD is no longer in charge?

I don't think so. Victory of the Daleks got HAMMERED in alot of places.

popebenny16

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I don't think so. Victory of the Daleks got HAMMERED in alot of places.

including here, but yeah there dones seem to be an easy to insert subtext that SM is wiping away the RTD era - which is a pity.

Moffat himself said that Amys intention in the bedroom scene is nothing to do with chaste love - she just wangs a shag, and fair enough.

I liked Angel Bob a lot - so much meanace in such an innocent gentle voice. The way that the Angels have developed is very interesting. I also have to applaud the SFX and the Visual Effects as I have slated them occasionally this year. The shot of the Byzantium embededed in the Mountain is stunning. When you consider that shot on them on the beach having arrived is the first one shot for this season it just makes you appreciate the vision going on at the start of it.

I like the way 11 is developing, and Amy, when you consider this was the first one they shot you feel they have really nailed their characters. Also,at last, a properly done Series Arc (lets call it Amys Crack :rolleyes:) in that there is a recurring plot element which is actually doing something which is noticable suring the entire run and which, presumably, will be the problem The Doctor will have to sort out at the end.

River Song is not as annoying as I found her last time, which is good. I still feell that she is more of an ideal woman for Stephen Moffat than 11, but thats maybe me being too complex about it.

As a final repoiste - the Daily Mail (spit) in the TV listings page on Saturday mentioned "David Who?"

The End of Time seems a whole world away......

Memnoch99

Octavians death scene was brilliant, real emotional stuff. Wonder can we start a campaign to bring back Octavian?

I see Im not the only one who thinks River kills the Doctor at some stage.
And dont know If Im the only one but I hate River Song. Something about her just bugs me.

*EDIT* 200 posts and about 198 of them in the pro wrestling forum!

Gambler

Yeah, I have to say I think that the "act as if you can see them" and the very slow movement both kind of negated a lot of what had already been said about the angels. It smacked a bit of "let's ignore anything that isn't convenient" for my liking.. I found that worrying..

K-9

Gambler wrote: »

Yeah, I have to say I think that the "act as if you can see them" and the very slow movement both kind of negated a lot of what had already been said about the angels. It smacked a bit of "let's ignore anything that isn't convenient" for my liking.. I found that worrying..

I suppose the "act as if you can see them" makes some sense as they will perceive that she sees them. Bob was talking through his subconscious so it does add up a bit. The speed was annoying, but it was always going to be a hard one for them to overcome. It's a weakness in the story overall.

Bob was brilliant, very clever and the angels laughing and doing "it for fun" was brilliant. Octavian was very good, a memorable character and performance.

Overall the series is coming along nicely and Matt has settled in nicely. Next weeks looks good.

VicNoir

mewso wrote: »

The scene where Amy has to pretend she can see the Angels didn't really work for me. So as long as they think you can see them they can't move. It's like some kind of parlour game then. The idea that your eyes upon them would cause them to become immobile makes more sense to me and gives the original "don't blink" idea the tension. Now it's "don't blink unless you can do so in a way that fools the Angels into being unaware you are blinking".

Actually, I think I'm actually ok with this, mostly because it was kind of explained by the Doctor. The Angels were terrified of the Crack at that point, which caused their defence mechanism to kick in. I think it was meant as a kind of reflex action in this case.

Now the Crack is unprecidented, The Doctor all but says as much, so this really is a one-time thing and it scares the Angels into reflexively turning to stone.

Personally, I can't really imagine the Angels are scared of much, which I think was the point: when scary things get scared, it's not good.

So, I think the Angels are still effective and the whole 'pretend you can see them' thing only applies in this one particular circumstance, not to all Angels as a rule.