World Cup Discussion Thread

F1ngers

peabutler wrote: »

Fancy these two teasm to go far and do well, especially Argentina.

Not as long a Maradonna is in charge. No matter who is in the team.

If Brazil don't win, it will be an African nation to lift the WC, as only Brazil have won off-continent....twice, thrice if you count the US.

speedboatchase

F1ngers wrote: »

Not as long a Maradonna is in charge. No matter who is in the team.

If Brazil don't win, it will be an African nation to lift the WC, as only Brazil have won off-continent....twice, thrice if you count the US.

True but this is a Winter world cup, which could suit the Euros a lot more. I don't see any African sides with the quality to get near the semis, I even think S Africa could be the first host nation to not get out of their group

peabutler

F1ngers wrote: »

Not as long a Maradonna is in charge. No matter who is in the team.

If Brazil don't win, it will be an African nation to lift the WC, as only Brazil have won off-continent....twice, thrice if you count the US.

Maradona is shoite but TBH I see him as a figure head this summer, a motivator at best, I expect the tactics to come from senior players (Zanetti etc) and some of the backroom staff. I think it's easy to say an African team but IMO the best team is Ivory Coast and they have the hardest group after that I only rate Nigeria and they hardly have an easy group to be fair.

Vokes

peabutler wrote: »

I'm just going to pull you up on Brazil. You say they have a super talented squad of players? No they simply aren't, they have one good Defender (as in players able to defend) in Lucio and even at that he is erratic. Melo and Gilberto will be decent and nothing more, they provide a bit of cover and thats it.Up the other end of things is Luis Fabiano who is top player, Pato can be but I don't fancy him to be totally ready for this tournament. Robinho is inconsistent and overrated as for the others you've mentioned they are all household names but that does not mean they are good the likes of Elano, Adriano, Baptista and Hulk have all had stinking seasons and Diego has hardly been at his best. As for Ronaldinho there is no indication that he will be in the squad as he isn't the most popular amongst the management. So their Super talented squad boils down to


Kaka
Luis Fabiano
Caesar ?
Lucio ?

Regardless of their individual talents (and I agree some of their players are ordinary but compentent defenders), it looks to me like Dunga has moulded his team into a pretty formidable cohesive unit that works hard for each other, especially in defense with the volantes (Melo and Silva) covering the advancing runs of the full-backs, and both CBs plus Cesar looking very, very composed - these players are very much more then the sum of their parts. Also, in the Confederations Cup last year, it looks like they've improved immensely on defensive (as well as attacking) set-pieces - which may well prove key against certain other playing styles.

The only reservation I have, is that Dunga doesn't appear to have found a certain starter at LB - as none of the candidates have proven themselves (Anyone know why he hasn't tried Maxwell?).

This looks to me to be the Brazil-94 team MkII, and my pick to win the World Cup.

Besides, I got Brazil and D. Villa @ 66/1 for Winner / Top Scorer *fingers crossed*

Fuzzy_Dunlop

It looks like the Netherlands may possibly benefit from the very rare incidence that is Robben, Sneijder, and Van Persie all being fit at the same time :eek:

Twould be great to see all them, along with Van der Vaart, firing on all cylinders like they're capable of.

Eire-Dearg

Seaneh wrote: »

Gourcuff plays for Bordeaux, quick, ninja edit!

Ah fook.

Ssssh!

F1ngers

speedboatchase wrote: »

True but this is a Winter world cup, which could suit the Euros a lot more. I don't see any African sides with the quality to get near the semis, I even think S Africa could be the first host nation to not get out of their group

I don't believe for one minute that an African team will win the WC(this year), just that only one team has won when not on "home" territory.

daniel91

baz2009 wrote: »

Messi Top Scorer and Spain to win at 66/1 is the bet of the tournament, imo.

Thats seems really good value might through a tenner on that!

RichTea

Excellent piece by DCU's Niall Farrell on Germany.

http://worldcupdaily.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/die-mannschaft/

speedboatchase

RichTea wrote: »

Excellent piece by DCU's Niall Farrell on Germany.

http://worldcupdaily.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/die-mannschaft/

Excellent? I realise he's probably a boardsie but that was not well researched at all. "Up front, Klose and Podolski are also veterans of World Cup 2006." - that may be true but after this weekend they have just 4 league goals from the pair of them combined the ENTIRE SEASON!

How can you not mention that and then, in the very next line say about Gomez and Kießling have "not been on form" ? Kießling has 21 league goals, equal with Dzeko as highest goalscorer this season!

Not a single mention of Kuranyi either (18 league goals this season) who will most likely get called up.

F1ngers

peabutler wrote: »

Maradona is shoite but TBH I see him as a figure head this summer, a motivator at best, I expect the tactics to come from senior players (Zanetti etc) and some of the backroom staff. I think it's easy to say an African team but IMO the best team is Ivory Coast and they have the hardest group after that I only rate Nigeria and they hardly have an easy group to be fair.

Hasn't worked for the Dutch for the last 40 years, can't see it happening for the Argentines tbh.

RichTea

speedboatchase wrote: »

Excellent? I realise he's probably a boardsie but that was not well researched at all. "Up front, Klose and Podolski are also veterans of World Cup 2006." - that may be true but after this weekend they have just 4 league goals from the pair of them combined the ENTIRE SEASON!

How can you not mention that and then, in the very next line say about Gomez and Kießling have "not been on form" ? Kießling has 21 league goals, equal with Dzeko as highest goalscorer this season!

Not a single mention of Kuranyi either (18 league goals this season) who will most likely get called up.

Established now that he was actually talking about Helmes instead of Kießling. Kuranyi is interesting because Löw apparently doesn't rate him at all, despite his resurgence.

Spiritoftheseventies

Italian provisional squad announced. No room for Aquaman.

Goalkeepers: Buffon, Marchetti, De Sanctis, Sirigu

Defenders: Bocchetti, Bonucci, F. Cannavaro, Cassani, Chiellini, Criscito, Grosso, Legrottaglie, Maggio, Zambrotta

Midfielders: Camoranesi, Candreva, Cossu, Gattuso, Marchisio, Montolivo, Pepe, Palombo, Pirlo

Forwards: Borriello, Di Natale, Gilardino, Pazzini, Iaquinta, Quagliarella

Suggestion Should squads be placed in a separate World Cup thread or are folks happy enough to have them posted here?

Dont be at yourself

I really wish Cassano would play for Italy.

projectmayhem

PaulieC wrote: »

I think their problem at this tournament will be up front - Van Persie has missed out an alot of football this season, Huntelaar has regressed since leaving Ajax but is still decent, Kuyts not really a striker anymore, Bring back Roy Makaay I say - banged in a few today iirc, some man

I would tend to agree, they're weak up front but I get the feeling from the Dutch camp that they'll stick Robben up the right wing and let him do what he does at Bayern - swing into the box and use his left foot to score goals... if he can pop a few goals out then maybe it'll galvanise the rest of the team into performing.

pickarooney

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Here I am, pimping again, but I just published the final part to a three part series looking at the top 50 players to watch out for at the World Cup.

http://is.gd/bR6fi

It's far too long to copy and paste into a post, so apologies for that.

That’s what makes Shinji the man to watch out for in the white of Japan this summer.

Don't Japan normally play in blue? Ninja edit time?

Spiritoftheseventies

projectmayhem wrote: »

I would tend to agree, they're weak up front but I get the feeling from the Dutch camp that they'll stick Robben up the right wing and let him do what he does at Bayern - swing into the box and use his left foot to score goals... if he can pop a few goals out then maybe it'll galvanise the rest of the team into performing.

Holland will be the proverbial dark horses again. Van Persie has looked very sharp since his return and Robben has done well with Munich.
Think they will make the quarter finals.

Headshot

i hear fabiano is having a scan on his ankle, anybody know anything about the injury?

Spiritoftheseventies

Headshot wrote: »

i hear fabiano is having a scan on his ankle, anybody know anything about the injury?

http://football.uk.reuters.com/leagues/world/news/2010/05/02/LDE6410KV.php

pickarooney

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Holland will be the proverbial dark horses again.

Has a dark horse ever won a tournament? Does the expression refer to an unlikely team who wins against the odds (e.g. Greece, Denmark in the Euros) or one that a lot of people write off but do a little better than expected?

It seems that Holland have been dark horses in every World Cup since the 70s and have still never won it.

peabutler

Looking at the Italy Provisional Squad i'd say they can just about put out a decent first 11 and thats it, last 16 exit for them I''d say. Any clue on when the England Provisional squad might be announced.

As for Netherlands what sort of Back 4 do they play- all I can think of is Hetinga becasue I hope to god Ooijer is well gone. Is Gio still left back??

Eire-Dearg

peabutler wrote: »

Looking at the Italy Provisional Squad i'd say they can just about put out a decent first 11 and thats it, last 16 exit for them I''d say. Any clue on when the England Provisional squad might be announced.

As for Netherlands what sort of Back 4 do they play- all I can think of is Hetinga becasue I hope to god Ooijer is well gone. Is Gio still left back??

JPA

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Isn't Kuyt right, Robben left, RVP central?

peabutler

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

If they seriously think Andre Ooijer is up to a World Cup then god bless them, I like Gio but i'd swap him with Emmanuelson otherwise the back 4 is to defensive with De Jong in front you have 5 players who won't have a great effect on the attacking side of things. Have they any RB so they can stick Johnny Hetinga in the centre does anyone know.

Headshot

I reckon Van Der Wiel will get RB position and Heitinga can go into CB position

Spiritoftheseventies

pickarooney wrote: »

Has a dark horse ever won a tournament? Does the expression refer to an unlikely team who wins against the odds (e.g. Greece, Denmark in the Euros) or one that a lot of people write off but do a little better than expected?

It seems that Holland have been dark horses in every World Cup since the 70s and have still never won it.

They were the best team in 1978. Only for Kempes they would have won it. If there is any country that deserves to win a World Cup its them.

peabutler

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

They were the best team in 1978. Only for Kempes they would have won it. If there is any country that deserves to win a World Cup its them.

Don't agree, the only team that deserves to win a World Cup is the team that performs all the way to the final and wins. Anyway their is a strom brewing already because the Dutch FA won't let the physio of choice for RVP, Sneijder VDV go to SA.

Spiritoftheseventies

peabutler wrote: »

Don't agree, the only team that deserves to win a World Cup is the team that performs all the way to the final and wins. Anyway their is a strom brewing already because the Dutch FA won't let the physio of choice for RVP, Sneijder VDV go to SA.

I agree in a way. You look at the 78 and 82 finals and both the Argentinians and Italians came good in the knock out stages. But anyone collecting those world cup dvds should seriously take a look at 78 tournament.
The atmosphere for final was something else. And Archie Gemills goal has to be seen to be believed.
Scotland came very close that year but got off to a very bad start in their group. Some terrific goals from the dutch though.
Johhny Repo, Johan" Jacobus Neeskens and Arie haan were brilliant for them.

RichTea

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Italian provisional squad announced. No room for Aquaman.

Goalkeepers: Buffon, Marchetti, De Sanctis, Sirigu

Defenders: Bocchetti, Bonucci, F. Cannavaro, Cassani, Chiellini, Criscito, Grosso, Legrottaglie, Maggio, Zambrotta

Midfielders: Camoranesi, Candreva, Cossu, Gattuso, Marchisio, Montolivo, Pepe, Palombo, Pirlo

Forwards: Borriello, Di Natale, Gilardino, Pazzini, Iaquinta, Quagliarella

Suggestion Should squads be placed in a separate World Cup thread or are folks happy enough to have them posted here?

Lippi is taking an awful lot of heat for that squad. Quagliarella is a very good player but he has probably not been as good as Fabrizio Miccoli. Then there's the fact that there's seven Juve players in it despite their horrific season. Of course, it's not the final squad and doesn't contain anyone from Inter or Roma ahead of the Coppa Italia final.

peabutler

speedboatchase wrote: »

Excellent? I realise he's probably a boardsie but that was not well researched at all. "Up front, Klose and Podolski are also veterans of World Cup 2006." - that may be true but after this weekend they have just 4 league goals from the pair of them combined the ENTIRE SEASON!

How can you not mention that and then, in the very next line say about Gomez and Kießling have "not been on form" ? Kießling has 21 league goals, equal with Dzeko as highest goalscorer this season!

Not a single mention of Kuranyi either (18 league goals this season) who will most likely get called up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8657870.stm :pac:

pickarooney

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

They were the best team in 1978. Only for Kempes they would have won it. If there is any country that deserves to win a World Cup its them.

Exactly. They were strong favourites then and failed to win. Ever since they've been 'dark horses' i.e. not as good as they were then and not good enough to win it.

Boskowski

If you put the german squads of the last three world cups in relation to what these squads have achieved in those competitions we're def'ny a very good bet at 14:1 this time.
Like the blog that was linked here says we have the usual reliabilty sqad but this time we have a little bit of talent thrown in there as well.
I expect our defense to be a little better than last time since tasci and schäfer are actually quite useful and they got a sniff of extra domestic match experience on their respective CL campaigns this year.
Midfield should be the showpiece around Ballack and Schweini and Özil. Only for having a quiet year so far I would have predicted Özil to be a possible candidate for theee starplayer of this WC. Marin is a tiny little whirlwind type of player. When still sporting the Borussia jersey he reminded me of the great Alan Simonsen who I was privileged to see as a very young boy. Not sure how good a whirlwind he is since he has absolutely no physicality to throw in only loads of cheeky talent.
Upfront we need to hit form. Not sure if Klose can turn it on again since he has been abysmal this year for Bayern. But who am I to doubt him? It's not as if he hadn't done it before. Gomez the same only he has no record of turning it on, quite the opposite. Podolski has been ordinary enough at club level but tends to be better for the Nationalteam. Cacau and Kuriyany have been on form but the DFB has a history of being as forgiving as the GeStaPo and I don't see KK on the squad just yet.

So this sounds overall like quite an average prospect but is actually so much better than going into previous World Cups. I'd say we're realistically even money to reach the semis and probably lead the group of second favourites. Favourites being for me Brazil & Spain. Second favourites being ourselves, Argentina, Netherlands, Italy and a surprise 'outsider'.
Not rating France and England - the usual - too good a record of sabotaging and overrating themselves to be called some sort of favourite.

Edit:
As it happens KK is not going to South Africa and a link to that information was posted (#81) before I wrote this. Anyway I didn't know this at the time and while they (DFB) claim this has nothing to do with the 'disciplinary incident in 2008' all I do is this::rolleyes: and say 'told you so: GeStaPo'.

Also maybe my verdict on England may have come across a bit stronger than intended. I'm not saying they're rubbish and they can't possibly go deep. What I'm saying is their record does not allow me to regard them as some sort of favourite to do so.

MR NINE

I fancy Rooney top scorer at 11/1 and possibly Gilardino top scorer at 40/1 as good bets. Both have very easy groups where I'd be surprised if they didn't ease through to the knockout places and then probably the quarters.

RichTea

MR NINE wrote: »

I fancy Rooney top scorer at 11/1 and possibly Gilardino top scorer at 40/1 as good bets. Both have very easy groups where I'd be surprised if they didn't ease through to the knockout places and then probably the quarters.

11/1 are good odds for Rooney but I don't think he'll take it. 40/1 for Gilardino is very good but he tends not to be the most prolific of strikers.

TheMilkyPirate

Kingdom wrote: »

Never bother with the overall winner. Had a look at some of the progression bets with PP's. Denmark to make the last 16 is 12/5 and thats worth a fair bit of green. Also Serbia are 33/1 to make the quarters, and thats something I'd fancy too. Both teams cruised through qualifying, are compact and functional.

Where's this 33/1? There 12/5 on powers to reach the quarters, New zealand are 30/1.

Spiritoftheseventies

The Yanks I think are a very good each way bet. Did very well in Confederations Cup

FatherTed

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

The Yanks I think are a very good each way bet. Did very well in Confederations Cup

They won't win it but would not be surprised if they get a draw against England and eventually get to the quarters. However, they have a number of players coming back from long term injuries like Davies, Onyewu, Holden so who know what kind of forum they'll be in.

OPENROAD

Anyone know who is doing the England world cup song this time?

Boskowski

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

The Yanks I think are a very good each way bet. Did very well in Confederations Cup

They're quality-wise fairly limited so they'd have to pull a Germany-like team performance. Not sure their setup is astute enough for that. They just don't have enough people involved with soccer experience at the highest level. However they usually get the most from their abilities so quarters is a possibility.

Spiritoftheseventies

FatherTed wrote: »

They won't win it but would not be surprised if they get a draw against England and eventually get to the quarters. However, they have a number of players coming back from long term injuries like Davies, Onyewu, Holden so who know what kind of forum they'll be in.

They wont win it but may get through their group. What odds are they?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

They wont win it but may get through their group. What odds are they?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=paddy+power

Spiritoftheseventies

baz2009 wrote: »

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=paddy+power

4/6. Not the most tempting odds tbf

nipps

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

wer de hell is van der vaart???:eek: he is a quality player! the combination of him, snijder and robben, with de jong as defensive mid wud be serious!

Spiritoftheseventies

nipps wrote: »

wer de hell is van der vaart???:eek: he is a quality player! the combination of him, snijder and robben, with de jong as defensive mid wud be serious!

Kuyt up front and Van Der Waart missing. Strange one alright.

Vokes

Here's Holland's 30-man Training Squad:

GK: Sander Boschker (FC Twente), Maarten Stekelenburg (Ajax), Piet Velthuizen (Vitesse), Michel Vorm (FC Utrecht);
DF: Khalid Boulahrouz (Stuttgart), Joris Mathijsen (Hamburg), Andre Ooijer (PSV Eindhoven), Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord), Gregory van der Wiel (Ajax), Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord);
MF: Ibrahim Afellay (PSV Eindhoven), Vurnon Anita (Ajax), Otman Bakkal (PSV Eindhoven), Edson Braafheid (Celtic), Wout Brama (FC Twente), Demy de Zeeuw (Ajax), Orlando Engelaar (PSV Eindhoven), John Heitinga (Everton), Nigel de Jong (Manchester City), Stijn Schaars (AZ Alkmaar), David Mendes da Silva (AZ Alkmaar);
FW: Ryan Babel (Liverpool), Eljero Elia (Hamburg), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Jeremain Lens (AZ Alkmaar)

Sneijder, Van Bommel and Rooben are absent because of CL commitments. Van Nistelrooy has been left out.


Here was their recent lineup against the USA on March 3rd:

---

Stekelenburg

---

Van Der Wiel - Heitinga - Mathijsen -Van Bronckhorst

---

De Jong ---- Van Bommel

---

---

Sneijder

---

---- Robben

---

Kuyt

---

Elia ----

I guess we'll probably see V.Persie in for Elia. Can't see Van der Vaart getting into their WC first XI since van Marwijk seems to like having his 2 midfield enforcers plus Sneijder.

JPA

Rene Adler out of the World Cup with injury.

Vokes

Maradona has called up Ortega for their Haiti friendly. Erm... Only a swansong surely.

Dont be at yourself

Ortega!! Wonder if he'll stick the loaf in Van Der Sar again!

Catenaccio!

Does anyone know what the footage in those FIFA World Cup dvds is like? Is it the footage that we see on ESPN's classic channel?

Thanks.

Degag

I thought Van Der Vaart is (or possibly was) their captain?