What to charge for portraits?

SusieQue

Hi there,

I've recently done a few portrait shots of friends and children and have been asked by a few others to do the same. I have absolutely no idea what to charge as I'm quite new to this. I don't have any special lights or studio etc but seem to be getting by without so far. Until I start making money and can buy more equipment!
I'll more than likely be printing 8 x 10's or 8x12s.
I will spend as much time as necessary on PP.. Adjusting brightness, contrast etc if necessary, than brightening eyes, smoothing out wrinkles a little if needed.. So it will be time consuming!

Here's just a small sample of some I've done already!









I will also make up some collage type shots with aprrox 4 or so images in them.

Any ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Susie

oshead

Susie
It's very difficult to answer that. How much do you value your time? You could charge a call out fee. This will cover you weather the parents buy anything or not. This could include a free 8x10 of their choice on a fairly cheap photo mount. That would cover both bases. From then on it's all about stunning them with your work and pulling on the heart strings to make a significant sale. There's loads of different techniques for up selling. Most likely you'll learn by your experience as you go.

The main thing to remember is to not undervalue your time and skills. If the parents could get the shots themselves they wouldn't ask you.

Hope this helps

Edit: To learn about Child Photography look no further than here. Ilovephotography.com

AnimalRights

If it helps Photos 3 and 4 are far better then 1 and 2, far.
1 and 2 look pretty soft, I know sharp is not everything but most portraits in my book should be sharp.

SusieQue

oshead wrote: »

Susie
It's very difficult to answer that. How much do you value your time? You could charge a call out fee. This will cover you weather the parents buy anything or not.

Thank you so much for replying;) Appreciate it!
What would you suggest as a call out fee?
I am spending all my time at all things photography related to try to improve! And will gladly spend as loong as it needs to make the photo work.. But I do value my time..
Oh its a tough decision! Don't want to cover my costs only.. want to make a bit too!!
Will check out that site you suggested! Thanks again, much appreciated

Susie

SusieQue

AnimalRights wrote: »

If it helps Photos 3 and 4 are far better then 1 and 2, far.
1 and 2 look pretty soft, I know sharp is not everything but most portraits in my book should be sharp.

These were just taken as I was walking around the room of my friends christening.. Nothing posed or anything like that. I hear what you are saying though, but that doesn't answer my question re charging for future shots! These images weren't part of a job, just ones I took myself for a friend..

AnimalRights

twas just in case Susie, just in case.

pixbyjohn

Charge at least 150 euro plus prints.

SusieQue

AnimalRights wrote: »

twas just in case Susie, just in case.

Thank you, I do appreciate it Janer

SusieQue

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Charge at least 150 euro plus prints.

Hey John, thanks for replying!
So 150 call out fee, then whatever I pay for prints

SusieQue

AnimalRights wrote: »

If it helps Photos 3 and 4 are far better then 1 and 2, far.
1 and 2 look pretty soft, I know sharp is not everything but most portraits in my book should be sharp.

On that note Janer, what settings would you recommend for portraits.. to get them sharp.. I know it depends on available light, lens etc.. but what f-stop generally??

Covey

In this economic climate, I'd say you've no hope of getting a €150 call out fee +++ .

I see the sense in it, but don't see it working tbh. Cost out your time per hour and costs (printing,mounting,travel etc) and then come to a price per print. In fact use the fact that you don't charge a call out fee as a selling point.:)

Offer a discount for more than two or three prints bought so that they perceive a bargain.

I'd not be too worried about lights and stuff at least until the winter arrives. There are far to many portraits been done to a formula. Offer something different, shots in the park, on the beach, in the Porchfield:D or whatever. Remember also that indoors no lights are better than natural window light. Get a reflector if you don't have one.

Oh , and good luck :)

oshead

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Charge at least 150 euro plus prints.

I'd never get away with 150 for the folk in Finglas and Ballymun.

SusieQue wrote: »

On that note Janer, what settings would you recommend for portraits.. to get them sharp.. I know it depends on available light, lens etc.. but what f-stop generally??

Hope you don't mind me answering this for Janer.

There is no best aperture IMO. I usually try to get a shallow DOF. When I get my 50mm 1.4 back after a year long absence, i'll be shooting at 1.4 for ages till get fed up with the look, no doubt. For studio type shots under the strobes I'm usually up around f8 - f11.

For sharp shots you could try and do a few tests on your lenses to see where the sweet spot is. Most lenses, especially zooms are a little soft wide open and suffer from diffraction when closed down.

SusieQue

Covey wrote: »

In this economic climate, I'd say you've no hope of getting a €150 call out fee +++ .

I see the sense in it, but don't see it working tbh. Cost out your time per hour and costs (printing,mounting,travel etc) and then come to a price per print. In fact use the fact that you don't charge a call out fee as a selling point.:)

Offer a discount for more than two or three prints bought so that they perceive a bargain.


Oh , and good luck :)

Thanks a mil
I do think that call out fee was a bit extrememe alright especially seeing as I'm only new to it all.. So far, its people who have seen my photos on pix or facebook or ones I've tkane of my niece etc and like what they see, I know I'm no pro but its better than what they can do so they are happy to get a little better quality than their own but cheaper than the local photographer who charges an arm & a leg!!!

Covey

I'd agree with oshead re there being no fixed or better way to shoot aperature wise. Depends on the effect you want.

Make sure you keep the eyes sharp though, as soft eyes rarely work.

uprising2

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Charge at least 150 euro plus prints.

She want's to sell the prints, she's starting off obviously, money is tight everywhere (maybe not for you?), but at that cost plus experience so far, not too many customers will be calling.

You must take notice of the financial situation most people find themselves in at the moment, an awful lot of people are struggling to simply survive at the moment, never mind "luxuries", although having said that there is money to be made.

Susie its down to what it costs you per print really, I print my own A3+ photo's 13"x19" and all costs included, I can actually put that in a frame for about €10 (including frame), and I only do it as a hobby, so you need to work out your costs, travel and time, etc, but too high a price and they will all admire your work but nobody will buy.
I can afford to print and frame pics at this cost to me because of a fair bit of investment in the past.

Your photo's are beautiful by the way, and as stated eyes in a portrait should always be sharp, even just one eye, the more you can make your photo's stand out or add a creative look, something "new", the more you will sell.
I'd advise to do it more as a hobby first, see how it goes from there, learn new techniques etc.

Best of luck.

SusieQue

oshead wrote: »

Hope you don't mind me answering this for Janer.
QUOTE]

Not at all... All help advice greatly appreciated!! I use my 50mm 1.8 or 100mm macro 2.8 for portraits.. so I was using the 1.8/2.8 and focusing on the eyes.. Does that result in less sharpness on other parts of the face.. I believe once the eyes are sharp, thats almost all that matters...

oshead

Yeah, seems that sharp eyes is all that matters in this. If only it were that easy. Though it's probably the most important.

Here's a point to remember. Even if your lense is not the sharpest wide open, if it gives good bokeh :rolleyes: then any amount of clarity looks sharp. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. Unless it was totally abysmal and from what I know of those two lenses you should be fine.

AnimalRights

Covey and David have it to a T, you can ignore my PM now lol
I didn't get to finish reading the thread...

I am like David, I am from a poor area so when I get asked for jobs I take very little, it's all about experience, I shot 20 shots for a confirmation last week, I pp'd em, went to gunn's got em printed, gave the receipt to the people (family friends)
a week later she wanted to give me 25-30, I refused and only took 10 lol

I just didn't feel I was good enough yet to charge more and besides I know them too well and their finances....

But I am def going to start charging soon but not quite pixbyjohn standards.

uprising2

SusieQue wrote: »

On that note Janer, what settings would you recommend for portraits.. to get them sharp.. I know it depends on available light, lens etc.. but what f-stop generally??

Janer may recommend automatic, but in portraits all F-stops come into play, pin sharp focus on one eye at least, then "know" what f-stop suits or use depth preview, bracket your shots, shoot in fast 2-3 bursts as you never can see a blink coming and kids get pee'd off qiuickly, and for baby portraits remember the crying factor.

Covey

Just to come back though to Pixybyjohn and his post. It's not totally off the wall, it's just the approach I don't think would work , i.e. Call Out Fee.

There are many ways to charge and it's only the approach that will bring in the business thats correct. However the charge should be built into a different approach and I don't think photographers should undersell themselves.

At the end of the day it's not just about a nice photo either. Sure you can get a cheap 10*8 from whoever( which will probably fade after a little while) and stick it in a cheap frame, but is that how you want to present your "great" photography.

Also, don't forget that you'll probably spend as much time post processing as snapping. Thats a cost. How much did your gear cost? That should be built in too. What about insurance? After a while the costs build up and what might have looked a ridiculous figure at the outset, suddenly makes much more business sense.

Getting your charge per hour right for you is the key. If thats €100 say ( and it could be much more than that !) and you expect to spend an hour on the shoot (incl PP) and sell on average 3 shots per shoot, then you need to add €33 on to the cost to produce each shot.

Wouldn't you know my job starts with an A ... :cool::pac::pac:

Oh and I'm all with AR in doing favours for friends etc, life's too short and all that.

AnimalRights

uprising2 wrote: »

Janer may recommend automatic

I don't use automatic!! :mad:

Thecageyone

Good luck in your venture Susie.

Set up my own FB page last week, been thinking of doing something like this for ages. See how it goes.

K_user

SusieQue wrote: »

On that note Janer, what settings would you recommend for portraits.. to get them sharp.. I know it depends on available light, lens etc.. but what f-stop generally??

I know someone has already answered this but I thought I'd throw in my own two cents...

In my experience low F stops aren't great for young kids, especially babies.
F1.8 is great for DOF effects, but the point of sharpness is so small and kids/babies move so fast and unexpectedly that half your photographs are binned before you start. So I don't go lower than 2.8 as a rule, gives me that extra working space.

Its far easier with the studio lights, F8-F11 on average, and everything tends to stay sharp - unless you are really unlucky!

Really like your samples above. But as has been mentioned already the eyes are crucial. #4 is the winner though. Show that to any parent and it would brake their hearts!

On costing the important part to remember is that you are developing a portfolio of images. So working for almost nothing could be the way to go. Just cover your costs so that you aren't making a loss. At least initially. Once you've had a bit of real time practice, with complete strangers, then you can evaluate the amount of effort involved and set a price.

It would be worth going online and checking your local area for competition. You can set a fair price once you know what they are charging and the quality of their work compared to yours.

Good luck!

Bosshogg

SusieQue wrote: »

I use my 50mm 1.8 or 100mm macro 2.8 for portraits.. so I was using the 1.8/2.8 and focusing on the eyes.. Does that result in less sharpness on other parts of the face.. I believe once the eyes are sharp, thats almost all that matters...

Well yes. The depth of field and the distance you are away from the subject will determine how much of the image is sharp. Only experience by getting out and doing what you're doing will tell you what's right for you in what situation. The main thing is to experiment.
With rare exception every portrait I shoot will take focus lock from the eyes.
Personally unless I really need the speed I don't usually ever work with the lens full open, just a couple of clicks back, maybe 1 stop just to keep the light off the edge of the glass.
[Try this; ask a friend to model (stand still) take 1 shot f8 as close as you can get and be in focus - shot 2, same composition at f2.8 from about 6 foot away. Now compare]

What to charge?.. imo I think that people have an amount in their pocket that they can afford to spend or what they think is fair and willing to spend. Photography isn't that important if it gets too dear - "ah sure we'll get a few snaps with this camera/iPhone and they'll do" is the usual opinion if you challenge the budget too far. Keep in mind if it's a church event they're already in for Suits/Dresses, dinners, limos etc.
If you take more time and more pictures and charge less you've a better chance of getting the budget willingly with gratitude and appreciation.
To put a number on it try this out for a while - Take 50 prints, let them mull over the laptop and charge €25 for every 10x8 / 12x8 / A4, charge €50 for an A3ish, €10 for a 6x4, large canvas print about say 24"x36" €250 - €300. Rarely will you be taken advantage of but you won't leave your less well off customers sore. If you are taken advantage of, well you still have the pictures and you can up your price afterwards (storage + admin fee) to hit them back.

You can charge a call out fee of say €50 that includes 2 prints.

Tip; Don't process anything until they're paid for in full upfront. You could end up with a stack of pictures that people decide not to bother to collect.

uprising2 wrote: »

in portraits all F-stops come into play, pin sharp focus on one eye at least, then "know" what f-stop suits or use depth preview, bracket your shots, shoot in fast 2-3 bursts as you never can see a blink coming and kids get pee'd off qiuickly, and for baby portraits remember the crying factor.

+1 ...and get the crying shot, it could be a cracker for a candid.

Covey wrote: »

At the end of the day it's not just about a nice photo either. Sure you can get a cheap 10*8 from whoever( which will probably fade after a little while) and stick it in a cheap frame, but is that how you want to present your "great" photography.

Micheal O'Leary of Ryanair qoute goes through my head so much "People don't want quality - They want cheap" It's so true
In some cases they won't buy the frames from you because they feel you are getting too much money from them. This is even when I sell them on at cost which is of course less than in the shops.

Covey wrote: »

Also, don't forget that you'll probably spend as much time post processing as snapping. Thats a cost. How much did your gear cost? That should be built in too. What about insurance? After a while the costs build up and what might have looked a ridiculous figure at the outset, suddenly makes much more business sense.

+1 and before you know it you're in for 30 grand and the customer has no idea for what is "just a bleedin' picture" but.... The OP is starting out so a chance for her to not charge for overheads she doesn't have.

Covey wrote: »

Getting your charge per hour right for you is the key. If thats €100 say ( and it could be much more than that !) and you expect to spend an hour on the shoot (incl PP) and sell on average 3 shots per shoot, then you need to add €33 on to the cost to produce each shot.

I wouldn't qoute hourly to non business customers. Often I have to wait for kids to get used to me before they come around. If parents started watching the clock then kids would be forced to do this and that and it just wouldn't be nice for anyone.

Some nice posts on this thread. I'm a bit concerned about "pulling on the heart strings of the parents" though. I know some companies do that and before you know it you're signing up direct debit monthly payments and paying €1500 for a portrait. Seems like a bit of a dodgey practise to me.
I prefer that if a customer likes the shot I sell it at a fair price with good value in mind. This has served me well and gets me lots of repeat and new custom. I get paid with appreciation and gratitude. This I prefer to "well I paid him €1500 but what could I do he had me emotionally blackmailed." I don't want my work to be displayed with an air of resentment. Having said that though don't give it away and let them put you out of business because there are many punters that will take advantage too if you let them.

Good luck. And the 4 shots are beautifully shot and processed.

Thecageyone

I'm starting out much the same as Susie, and have been eying up other portrait photographer's sites. Just to get an approx price gauge.

One thing I've come across repeatedly in articles regarding pricing, is not to under sell yourself. Just as important as not over selling yourself.

Some sites don't charge a standard call out/shoot fee, but then they don't give any extra prints and they are usually the ones charging more per print [the customer will often shell out more for a bunch of their prints than they would for a set fee + cheaper prints]. I think a standard shoot fee is a must, to cover your time, travel, skill etc .. They hired you because they like your work. They expect to fork out a few quid for what they like. Also knowing there's a set fee will entice a customer to buy some extras while they're at it, the one or two you include in the fee is just a teaser.

Cheap, but not too cheap is how I'm going. Lining up some freebies for friends and family to begin with. Experience and more sample images to use for me, free prints for them.

sunny2004

Have you asked yourself what you think its worth ? you know the product, you know the competition, you know your worth ?

Then ask people who you trust what the think of the price..

mikeanywhere

I havent read every single post so hopefully I am not dupicating some answers.

I agree with Covery tho, €150 for a call-out fee is too steep especially if they are paying for prints thereafter. You also need to consider what you want to charge for prints so for someone who wants a 10x8 could end up paying a lot of money and wont have you do the shots (bad example it may be but you get the idea). Some people I know charge a very little or no up front fee and make their money on prints. Others charge a fee and charge for prints.

The way I work is to charge a fee for my time and that includes a print credit against their order. I don't rely on print sales to make a living so the prices I charge for prints are not the highest (or the cheapest either) and it works for me.

I hope that provides some alternative ideas for you.

smelltheglove

You need to charge a call out fee to cover yourself, I mean you will be spending a lot of time pping the shots for selection, cost of travel etc and more. €150 is a bit steep imho but I charge €75 callout fee. With that I also offer €20 off the largest canvas. Having said that as I print my own my costs are low so I can sell low and would sell a large canvas after callout fee for only €100, thats a 20x28"

Now it may be unlikely given experience that you will be aiming to sell large prints but the average price for an 8x10 would be around €20. Having said that there are places, those we dislike to name around here who offer free sessions as a prize and then charge hundreds for even a 5x7 but average 8x10 portraits would be around the 20. I sell for 15. Now I prefer to do an outdoor shoot with groups and big families as I find they become much more relaxed and enjoy the experience more however I often bring along the portable studio equipment too.

thinktwice

[/QUOTE] I'm a bit concerned about "pulling on the heart strings of the parents" though. I know some companies do that and before you know it you're signing up direct debit monthly payments and paying €1500 for a portrait. Seems like a bit of a dodgey practise to me.
I prefer that if a customer likes the shot I sell it at a fair price with good value in mind. This has served me well and gets me lots of repeat and new custom. I get paid with appreciation and gratitude. This I prefer to "well I paid him €1500 but what could I do he had me emotionally blackmailed." I don't want my work to be displayed with an air of resentment. Having said that though don't give it away and let them put you out of business because there are many punters that will take advantage too if you let them.

[/QUOTE]


Hi guys,
So glad I found this thread. I've worked as a photographer in the press for 7 years and have been slowly building up my own business. I was mainly concentrating on weddings but bought studio equip and it's beginning to take off. Prices and the callout fee were confusing me. And I'd charge less if I knew someone etc. Today I went to a well known 'chain' of these 'untrained' studios. It was in the interest of my own pricing. I had an exp there before when my son turned one we wanted a family photo. They took loads but I just took my one free shot and the hounded me and I mean hounded me for up to six months after to buy buy buy from them. I'd never operate in this manor with my customers. Maybe I'm too soft and need to become more business like (actually I definitely must) but I'd never resort to this kind of selling. Anyway I knew the girl she there 2 months 'training' and told me a second worker all her shots had to be retaken because they're so bad. Imagine ringing your customer and asking to arrange another shoot because you were so crap. She offered me the free deal or 'complimentary' shot and began telling me all the packages available (sell sell sell) I know the girl but not in a very friendly way so I'd say she doesn't realise I'm pushing with the mobile studio stuff myself. I was looking as customers were booking in and the shots displayed were awful very soft and lighting was all wrong. How can parents etc, think these are good places to buy from? They aren't the cheapest either my prints were just cheaper than theres. She also told me to stay away from one particular worker when I'm in for my 'family shot' as he'll hound me to buy buy buy!!! :eek:

smelltheglove

I had a lady only last week asking me for my prices as she passed me by, she was looking at my largest canvas, she had to catch her breath when I told he 120, she had just out a 200 deposit down with this crowd and had another 800 to pay for the same size canvas! She left a little upset whilst assuring me she would know where to go in future.

Covey

I wouldn't go down the road of selling at cost, even as an entry point. Don't think it works long term where you will have to up your prices by a lot and people will just say "look how expensive she has got"

Regarding Suzie not having the overheads to start out, well I think she has. She has the equipment, will probably have to buy more,. Her time is a cost too. and lets not forget insurance. You'll find out how neccessary it is when a light is toppled over on top of a young child. :eek:. It would be very foolish not to have it imo.

Lastly, the Michael O'Leray approach is not something you can duplicate across industries. Lets not forget most people have the tools and ability to take a photograph. They willingly come to the more expensive option of a photographer because they want something special.