How Can This be Stopped?

recedite

stevoman wrote: »

IMO poisons should be outlawed full stop. It is a horrendous death for any creature and if some species do need to be controlled for whatever purpose it should be done in a more humane manner.

+1
Laying out poisoned carcasses is not illegal but it should be.
If it was illegal it could be stopped quickly.

E39MSport

According to the Ambasador this morning they are not yet contemplating pulling the plug but if the trend continues then they will have to consider abandoning the project.
Sounded like a warning shot over the bow tbh

meathstevie

recedite wrote: »

+1
Laying out poisoned carcasses is not illegal but it should be.
If it was illegal it could be stopped quickly.

Using meat bait is illegal and last time I checked a vast proportion of a carcass consists of a substance commonly referred to as meat.

On the other hand it's not illegal to use products like alphachloralose ( sorry for potential spelling errors ) on for example cereal bait or bread etc... .

E39MSport

listen in

johngalway

What programme was it on, will it be podcast I wonder?

johngalway

What programme was the interview on please?

Thoushaltnot

Sean Moncrieff show on Newstalk 106 FM (you can listen online too). Got the impression it was the first piece after the news but they haven't got round to it yet - "Kid's Talk" on now, so after 3.30, yer in with a chance.

There's another thread - something about discussion on RTE too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

E39MSport wrote: »

According to the Ambasador this morning they are not yet contemplating pulling the plug but if the trend continues then they will have to consider abandoning the project.
Sounded like a warning shot over the bow tbh

I don't mean to be pedantic; but on Morning Ireland he said he hoped the plug wouldn't be pulled. He doesn't have any say in the decision and the Norwegian government, while issuers of the necessary licences, have left it to the Wildlife Orgs to decide on the criteria necessary to donate birds. STill I hope they see sense and stop any more until something is done here.

johngalway

It's coming up now after this break at 15.30.

johngalway

Still allowed to put out poison to control foxes, need to notify Gardai and erect signs - Dr Alan Mee on NewsTalk

Feck me, I thought that was 100% illegal.

MB Lacey

johngalway wrote: »

Still allowed to put out poison to control foxes, need to notify Gardai and erect signs - Dr Alan Mee on NewsTalk

Feck me, I thought that was 100% illegal.

No its still legal in Ireland!!


This is an excerpt from the Golden Eagle Trust's website on 4th May 2010

Although the use of poison on meat baits for the control of crows was banned in 2008, the use of meat baits to kill foxes is still permitted under current regulations (Protection of Animals Act 1965). This loophole has allowed the continued use of poison and continue to pose a huge threat to our native birds of prey. However, an amendment to the Wildlife Act which will outlaw all use of poison on meat baits is imminent.




For the full article click here.

This is how they poisoners are getting around the law.
Mind boggling isn't it.

Thoushaltnot

Yeah - the "anomaly" - you can legally put out poison for one species (was that grey crow?) but not for another (the fox). Even though the foxes apparently can smell that the carcass has been poisoned so won't touch it. Pointless.

Spotted in one of the Hunting threads that hanging up CDs over where you keep pheasant poults, deters the sparrow hawk from taking them, so I'd imagine that you could probably apply that to a lambing field. Might even work for the crows.

Foxes would be the big threat during lambing season, tho. Not the raptors.

johngalway

meathstevie wrote: »

Using meat bait is illegal and last time I checked a vast proportion of a carcass consists of a substance commonly referred to as meat.

On the other hand it's not illegal to use products like alphachloralose ( sorry for potential spelling errors ) on for example cereal bait or bread etc... .

Stevie, apparently it's not illegal to use poison to control foxes, as long as the Gardai are notified and signs are erected on the land. That's according to Dr Alan Mee in an interview with Sean Moncrief.

I think the meat based posion you refer to was in regard to birds only?

stevoman

Folks debate is fine but please do not use this forum as a platform to start boycotting parts of the food industry.

greeneyedspirit

johngalway wrote: »

Stevie, apparently it's not illegal to use poison to control foxes, as long as the Gardai are notified and signs are erected on the land.

That's all well and good, but how many people actually bother with doing this? Notifying the Gardai, putting up signs.... waaay too much effort for some black sheep out there
IMHO laying out poison should be banned, full stop, it's such a horrible way of killing animals.

johngalway

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Yeah - the "anomaly" - you can legally put out poison for one species (was that grey crow?) but not for another (the fox). Even though the foxes apparently can smell that the carcass has been poisoned so won't touch it. Pointless.

Spotted in one of the Hunting threads that hanging up CDs over where you keep pheasant poults, deters the sparrow hawk from taking them, so I'd imagine that you could probably apply that to a lambing field. Might even work for the crows.

Foxes would be the big threat during lambing season, tho. Not the raptors.

Couple of things here

The legal poison was for foxes, as long as the Gardai are notified and signs erected. I haven't got a notion about what substance would be used.

Meat based poisons directed at birds are illegal for the past 2-3 years I believe.

In the past, items such as "glitterballs" like you'd see in a disco were used to attract crows, not deter them. I'd be highly dubious of the effect cd's would have on crows.

Also, there is the issue of scale. Relatively a lambing field, or fields are huge compared to the size of a release pen where poults would be.

A gazillion cd's spread around the countryside would also be a visual blight of epic proportions

There are other practical and effective options to control crows such as shooting and trapping.

Going on accounts I have heard from generations past, I would be highly suspicious of the claim that foxes are wary of poisoned carcasses. I do not use poisons against anything but I've heard contradictory reports.

johngalway

greeneyedspirit wrote: »

That's all well and good, but how many people actually bother with doing this? Notifying the Gardai, putting up signs.... waaay too much effort for some black sheep out there
IMHO laying out poison should be banned, full stop, it's such a horrible way of killing animals.

I can't tell you that because, personally, I don't know a single farmer who lays poison around here. Myself and another lad sort out most of the problem foxes and the grey crow population is kept in check by trapping.

Certain poisons are necessary, such as for rats and mice etc, in a food producing situation. Otherwise little black pellets may start appearing in yer weetabix

E39MSport

johngalway wrote: »

A gazillion cd's spread around the countryside would also be a visual blight of epic proportions

epic records lol..... sorry

E39MSport

Fair play. I was trying to recall what he had in fact said.
Cheers,
k

E39MSport

johngalway wrote: »

What programme was the interview on please?

Morning Ireland I believe (Srameen will remember better ... )

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

johngalway wrote: »

What programme was the interview on please?

Morning Ireland about 7.50 this morning. I listened as I sat by a lovely little wood with brilliant birdsong, orchids and violets, and budding trees. To be honest I learned more from the wood than the radio.

greeneyedspirit

johngalway wrote: »

I can't tell you that because, personally, I don't know a single farmer who lays poison around here. Myself and another lad sort out most of the problem foxes and the grey crow population is kept in check by trapping.

Certain poisons are necessary, such as for rats and mice etc, in a food producing situation. Otherwise little black pellets may start appearing in yer weetabix

Fair play to you and everyone else who doesn't lay out poisoned meat, then It's such a pity that there's still people doing it, though. Totally unnecessary, because trapping (and shooting, probably?) seems to work for you and your neighbours just fine.
and yeah, I wasn't thinking of the rat/mouse problem :pac: no black pellets, thank you...

johngalway

I'll keep an eye out for it.

Papa_Lazarou

Man it was horrible seeing such a beautiful bird being put into a box last night on the news.
Think we should start poisoning the farmers or whoever is putting out the stuff in the first place.

Dusty87

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Think we should start poisoning the farmers .

To paraphrase WhiteSnake,
Here we go again.........

stevensi

Although they are fantastic to see in Irish skies the recent news of the posioning is really starting to get a little depressing. I think instead of releasing more of these birds into the country we would be better off in spending the money on re-introducing a species like the Corn Bunting which became extinct in the last 25 years or so in Ireland. I know they are regarded as a little brown jobs and not as 'sexy' as an Eagle but surely we stand a better chance of seeing these surviving here if the right habitats are preserved for them; and not see more images of dead eagles on tv.

What do people think?

cfitz

stevensi wrote: »

Although they are fantastic to see in Irish skies the recent news of the posioning is really starting to get a little depressing. I think instead of releasing more of these birds into the country we would be better off in spending the money on re-introducing a species like the Corn Bunting which became extinct in the last 25 years or so in Ireland. I know they are regarded as a little brown jobs and not as 'sexy' as an Eagle but surely we stand a better chance of seeing these surviving here if the right habitats are preserved for them; and not see more images of dead eagles on tv.

What do people think?

I think the 167 million euro(!) that it seems was set aside for the eagle project over 7 years might have been much better spent on preserving and possibly expanding the protected areas of our natural habitats. I am very interested to know the benefits of this eagle introduction even if none were ever poisoned - how much of a positive effect do these eagles have on Ireland's ecology and biodiversity? Apart from seeing eagles in the sky, what are the predicted consequences of the reintroduction?

magicbastarder

they're probably seen as the end in itself.
€167 million? what was the source for this? i would have to wonder what took over €20 million a year to reintroduce these birds.

E39MSport

cfitz wrote: »

I think the 167 million euro(!) that it seems was set aside for the eagle project over 7 years might have been much better spent on preserving and possibly expanding the protected areas of our natural habitats. I am very interested to know the benefits of this eagle introduction even if none were ever poisoned - how much of a positive effect do these eagles have on Ireland's ecology and biodiversity? Apart from seeing eagles in the sky, what are the predicted consequences of the reintroduction?

I think tourism has a big part to play.

cfitz

magicbastarder wrote: »

€167 million? what was the source for this? i would have to wonder what took over €20 million a year to reintroduce these birds.

This is where I read it, but that's all I know of it:

http://www.ndp.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/featured-projects/goldeneagle.htm