Who is afraid of the big bad wolf?.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Serious question here, and give an honest answer and don't worry about causing offence.

Are you afraid of dogs on the restricted breeds list, either for your own personal safety or for that of your dog/dogs?.

If your afraid is it based on a bad personal experience of them, or the perceived threat of danger?.

And what do you do when your out for walkies with your guys and your sharing the same path as a (for instance) Staffie or Pitbull (most people can't tell the difference anyway) do you take evasive action and walk across the road?.

Reason I ask, is when I'm out walking my dogs (a pitbull & a staffie) some people (almost 90% are Cav owners) will walk across the road when they see my guys coming, or on the rare occassion where they've just chanced upon us they'll usually ask "will your dogs attack?" (and they're very serious!).

A lot it I can understand, as before I owned these dogs I was guilty of the same thing I guess (these are my first dogs as an adult) - ie I always thought Pits & Staffies were 'dangerous' so I avoided contact.

I became an owner of a Pit by accident really, my sis-in-law was working in Ashtown pound, she rang me to say a 10wk old "Pitbull or Staff" puppy had come into the pound and was being killed immediately - so I told her to hide it and I'd be there in 30 minutes - believe it or not we'd to sneak the dog out because the pound manager was adament the dog was to be killed.

The dog turned out to be the most gentle dog ever :P

Sorry for the long story, just wanted to tell you where I'm coming from.

morganafay

I'm actually pretty afraid of some dogs, not neccessarily restricted breeds, just big dogs that might be aggressive. Just because I have always had friendly small and memdium sized dogs, so I don't know properly how to deal with them. We get a lot of aggressive dogs in college for grooming, and if one is really bad then I'm very nervous to work with them. But I think working with aggressive dogs is what is making me scared of them!

But if I just saw a dog on the street I wouldn't cross the road or assume it was vicious. But I'd keep my dogs on a short lead if there's any other dog walking, because they've been attacked too many times. If it was a really obviously friendly dog though, then I'd let them say hello to each other. I used to let them go up to see any other dog but now wouldn't let them go up to a restricted breed or large dog or terrier or most breeds, unless I knew the owner or dog. I really only let them near other Cavs, Springer Spaniels and Golden Retrievers!

I am a Cavalier owner and I think maybe Cavalier owners are wary of some dogs, because Cavs are so friendly that they go up to any dog and get themselves attacked! Mine were attacked by a Staffie cross and Boxer and are now scared of all bull breeds, so maybe the owners keep their dogs away because the dogs are scared.

wolfpawnat

Truth be told, I fear small dogs more than the big ones as the are more whippy and the first you know about them the fecker is latched to your ankle!!!!

Big dogs you can see coming and generally a good owner will have restricted breeds muzzled so even if they are agressive the most the can do is push me over. Also I do believe that not all dogs that are restrricted breeds are savage, they are just as likely to be a nice dog as a labrador (have actually met some dangerous labs)

star-pants

Just on mobile so short reply, but no I've never crossed the road away from a dog. I won't just assume because it's a certain breed that it's dangerous.

The other week there was a guy outside the shops with a pitbull muzzled & I asked could I pet him, chap was surprised and said yeah no prob. The dog was so happy getting petted he jumped up at me, was on my hunkers & his muzzle came loose but he was grand, just dying to lick my face & say hi. Yer man was all 'omg sorry' but I told him twas grand. You could see twas only excitement.

My aunt has a rottie who's as dopey and non confrontational. He's dominated by her other dog, a cocker spaniel. Cries at my aunt when the other takes his toys.

Whilst I can understand people's perception and fear of large dogs, they all shouln't be tarred with the same brush.

When out walking my two lhasas, people assume they're meek and go to pet without asking. Mine are nervous &don't always appreciate it. All dogs are different. I would only hold my dogs on short lead coming up to *any* dog because I know what mine are like.

It's sad for the 'big bad breeds' as they can get treated like outca ts when they're far from it in my book.

adser53

star-pants wrote: »

Whilst I can understand people's perception and fear of large dogs, they all shouln't be tarred with the same brush.

Agree 100% I can accept that not everyone likes dogs and can be fearful of large breeds in general. This is ok but not when they're just afraid of restricted breeds because of the very existence of this law (The "dangerous dog" or "banned dog list" as the ignorant fools often call it).

It does really annoy me when I'm out walking my (adult) akita and people cross the road etc to get away from him. More often than not these people have small terrier type dogs that are going ballistic barking at my lad while he doesn't bat an eyelid. If it was me with a dog like that, I'd be mortified at it's behaviour but in 99% of the cases these people give me the evil eye and cross the road out of fear rather than manners because their own dog is nervous and unsocialised. They're obviously a bit more accepting when we have our 2 cavaliers walking beside him :rolleyes:

It's the joy of being a restricted breed owner

The gas thing I found this weekend when walking my lad in Glendalough was: people were all over him when he was wearing a backpack and saying it was so cute, a great idea etc but then when I took the pack off him for a while to give him a break, people gave him a wide bearth again. Coincidence maybe?

EGAR

I run a Bull Breed Rescue so no, never for a second. And bear in mind I know nothing about most dogs who arrive here as they are from the pound, so no history whatsoever.

I'd be more worried about some of the dodgy owners than their dogs .

andreac

As a restricted breed owner myself im well used to big dogs and actually prefer bigger dogs to smaller ones and wouldnt be afraid of any dog at all.

I attend dog shows weekly so am used to all different types of dogs, and i wouldnt be afraid of any dog because of their size or breed.:)

kylith

The only reason I'd be afraid of a dog on the restricted list is that the fact that the dog is on the restricted list means that the breed may well attract the type of person who's not too worried about disciplin and socialising.

The only reason I cross the road to avoid a dog is because one of my own has issues with strange dogs; I always try to explain to the other person that it's not because of their dog, because I'd hate them to think that I'm judging them or their dog. Some of the sweetest, soppiest dogs I've ever known have been Rotties and AM Bulls.

Xiney

Doesn't have anything to do with the dog's breed. I am more defensive around dogs when I'm walking my own, however. He's a young, naive, intact male Labrador. He probably wasn't kept with his littermates long enough so he doesn't understand the signs of aggression so I have to watch out for him.

If a dog is being walked by a normal person on a lead, or if they're off the lead but the owner has good control of them, no problem.


If a dog is roaming a neighbourhood off lead with no owner in sight, I will take defensive measures. If a dog gets too close (doesn't matter if it's a terrier, an alsation or a labrador) I will yell at it to go away. I really wish people wouldn't let their dogs roam their neighbourhood... because while their dogs may be great with people they may be aggressive to strange intact males being walked by their owners.

If a rough looking dog (and I mean a dog that looks like it's not particularly well cared for rather than a breed) is being walked by a rough looking person or any combination thereof, I will again be defensive.


I love staffies and rottweilers, etc. Pitbulls aren't that common here from what I can see, and to be honest I've never met one that wasn't guarding a junk yard but I know there are some that are pets. I don't think I'd ever own one of these breeds because I just don't want the hassle, but who knows - I tend to have animals fall into my lap rather than actively seek them out. Maybe the next total pet will be a staffie or a rottie.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

1. Yes.

2. Personal Bad Experience.

3. Yes.

BryanL

I worry most about the person holding the dogs lead.
Bryan

perri winkles

I've found this with some, not all cav owners. For some cav owners, they tend to be the first dog they've had, usually bought off a breeder, and wouldn't have much contact with other dogs. I know alot of people like this.

Other dogs seem to make them nervous and the amount of people I see yanking their dog along when they're only trying to have a sniff is crazy. Obviously not every Cav owner is like this, but I do see what you mean when you say its usually people with this breed.

Before working in a rescue, I would have been slightly nervous of Rotties, Dobies and German Shepards, mostly because of their size and having little contact with them. But now they don't bother me at all, and I love staffies!


I wouldn't take offence at the road thing unless its really obvious that they're doing it because of your dogs breed.

I have to do this sometimes with my two, one is fine but the other one is a little terrorist terrier who can be a bit unpredictable!

toadfly

No would never cross the road to get away from a restricted dog.

I have only even owned three small dogs myself (still have two Yorkies), we had three medium dogs when we were growing up so have no experience with big dogs but have no fear of dogs.

When I am out walking my two I keep them on a short lead coming up to anyone if they have dogs are not. One of ours can be yappy when she is out and has been attached by a dalmation which is a dog I would never had thought would attack.

After looking into the great work done by EGAR I will never judge a dog by its breed.

A friend has two dogs, one GSD sweetest most gentle dog ever, another I'm not sure it looks like a large Japanese spitz that would take the hand off you. Recently met a Staffie for the first time in Ashton, such a lovely dog.

LucyBliss

adser53 wrote: »

It does really annoy me when I'm out walking my (adult) akita and people cross the road etc to get away from him. More often than not these people have small terrier type dogs that are going ballistic barking at my lad while he doesn't bat an eyelid.

I have three terrier cross dogs and the male sometimes does that when he meets other dogs. He's not aggressive, but he can be a whingey bastard and gets bursts of excitement on walks. I just redirect him with a tug of the lead and keep going. We did meet a Rottweiler at the vets one day and Jack practically whinged in the poor dog's ear. I moved him away and the Rottie owner was quick to say how her dog wouldn't do anything, which wasn't my worry and I told her so. I just thought seeing as how we were at the vets, her dog deserved some space without having some young bucko bothering him.

perri winkles

LucyBliss wrote: »

I have three terrier cross dogs and the male sometimes does that when he meets other dogs. He's not aggressive, but he can be a whingey bastard and gets bursts of excitement on walks. I just redirect him with a tug of the lead and keep going. We did meet a Rottweiler at the vets one day and Jack practically whinged in the poor dog's ear. I moved him away and the Rottie owner was quick to say how her dog wouldn't do anything, which wasn't my worry and I told her so. I just thought seeing as how we were at the vets, her dog deserved some space without having some young bucko bothering him.

This is like what my guy does. Barks and grunts at other dogs, but when he actually gets over to the other dog, he doesn't know what to do! Its all bravado :rolleyes: Typical terriers you gotta love em!;)

Hermit07

I have lots of experience with the restricted breeds and have owned some of them. I regularly handle these dogs and never ever have issues with them with the exception of the akita where I have come across numerous dogs growling at me but they were generally of the age bracket 7 - 12 mths and a bit unsure of themselves so with a bit of corrective work have sorted this issue for the owners.

I have yet to come across a rottweiler or staffie that growled at me, in fact they are two of the most pleasant breeds to handle/work with.

I have had (too many to mention) Chihuahuas have a go at me and also some of the gundog breeds, in particular the small spaniels.

However you cant blame people with very small dogs avoiding contact with staffies/pitbulls etc because you have to remember the power of some of the restricted breeds, should they grab hold of a smaller dog, they can do serious damage very quickly. Staffies and pitbulls generally dont start fights but they will definitely finish it and wont care if its someones Cavalier King Charles Spaniel.

There are also lots of owners who are not worried about the rottweiler walking towards them but know that their own little fido is an upstart so rather than have him pick on the rottweiler, they try and avoid by crossing the road.

It is shocking the amount of pitbulls/staffies that get put down simply because of their breed.

henryporter

We took our German Shepherd for a walk in the local park a couple of weeks back - it was like a scene out of a disaster movie; parents running for cover with their childer etc. - bad attitude to bestow on the kids who generally wanted to come over for a better look at her; as environmental conditioning goes it's the pits

morganafay

You've got to think aswell that most restricted breeds are big and/or powerful. If I see one roaming around on its own or outside its own house I'll try to stay well away of it, because if it attacks my dogs then I can't even stop it. A little staffie X attacked my dogs and I was pounding it with my fists, kicking it and all, hitting it on the head and nose, and it didn't bat an eyelid, but it did bite me. It was really strong for its size, and I'm a pretty weak girl so with nobody else around I'd stay away from them. But the same for other big non-restricted breeds like even boxers and labs. (The exception for me is golden retrievers because I can't imagine them attacking another dog.)

seamus

Being perfectly honest, before I got a staffie, I would have been relatively ignorant overall. I was aware that there was a "restricted breeds" list, and I was aware that it was a ridiculous and non-sensical thing. However, I would still have stereotyped big dogs somewhat - Rotties and GSDs in particular - as being unsafe to have around people unsupervised.

This is primarily because of the "vicious guard dog" image that the media portrays of them, but also because of a crazy GSD which a cousin of mine had, that went a bit mental when people were around. I know now that the dog was only looking to play (poor fecker was kept locked up most of the day), but when you're a 4-foot nothing 8 year old and an enormous dog comes bounding over barking at you, you can't help but be scared.

Like Mak, my staffie is the first dog I've owned as an adult.

I also had no real idea what a "pitbull" was. If you asked me to pick one out, I would have said this:
http://www.jphpk.gov.my/English/boxer.jpg

or this (really): http://www.christmasghost.com/archives/typical%20white%20dog%20copy.jpg

And I think that's the level of ignorance we're up against. I've had the benefit of getting a lot of exposure to dogs in the last 6 months because of a family member, so all of the various myths I've had around dogs and breeds, have been shattered.

I've also noticed that "class" tends to make a big difference in people's attitudes. When we bring her walking in Sandymount, many (if not most) people are scrambling to call their dogs and children away. The looks we get are almost along the lines of "How dare you bring that monster onto our beach". Even though any hassle is from small dogs coming up and giving her attitude.
But when we bring her out and around in Dublin 24, loads of people come up with their kids and coo over her and give her a pet.

Money doesn't buy you intelligence I suppose.

Noopti

When I see someone walking their dog I usually assess the situation in the following way:
1. How are they controlling their dog?
2. What do they look like?
3. What dog breed is it? (In conjunction with question 2)
4. What sort of state is the dog in?

Specifically with regards questions 2,3 & 4. If I see a person who looks like the type of person I would avoid myself, and they are walking with a particular breed of dog then I will rightly or wrongly assume they are the type of person who owns such a dog for status/intimidation purposes. I will be vary wary of them and their dog. Also, I will judge what sort of state the dog appears to be in, does it look calm etc.

It is always a combination of the owner + the dog breed that I judge. Unfortunately certain breeds are magnets to the type of people who use them for status and intimidation purposes and I will always be wary when I see that combination.

Edit: By the way, when I refer to "type of people". This is what I mean
http://chavspeak.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/chav-spit.jpg

seamus

morganafay wrote: »

You've got to think aswell that most restricted breeds are big and/or powerful.

While I don't think I be disagreeing with you in terms of sentiments, the problem with the restricted breeds list is that it actually quite indiscriminate - the breeds on the list are only there by virtue of their reputation and nothing more.

By way of example, I've no doubt whatsoever that if my staffie "turned" (she's an animal after all), she could easily remove a nose, a finger or two or do some serious ligament damage to whatever body part she got a hold of.

However, consider a St. Bernard. This is a dog that can weigh anywhere between 10 and 18 stone before it's fully grown. If a St. Bernard turns on you, you would want to hope that you're holding something sharp to protect yourself, because most people would be incapable of fending off an attack from an animal which is bigger than they are.

St. Bernards are not on the restricted list. There's no requirement to muzzle one nor to keep it on a leash in public. In real terms, a St. Bernard poses a much greater "potential threat" to the public then most of the animals on the list of restricted breeds.

As I say morgana, I'm probably not disagreeing with you and no doubt your incident was horrific. But in reality that could have been almost any dog and many people seem to forget that and instead choose to decide that a small handful of dogs are the only ones which pose any kind of threat.

Noopti, when out walking my dog overall I would generally go with just steps 1 and 2. You can usually tell from an owner's body language if they're open to an interaction with your dog, and I would normally only go up to dogs who are leashed unless I know the dog myself. Otherwise you don't know what level of control the other person has over their dog.

Out walking on my own, I would never be afraid of any dog which is walking with someone.

Hermit07

I remember being in the unfortunate situation of having to try and save a large rottweiler male from a pit bull. It is a memory I will never forget, everybody standing around but nobody helping and the rottweiler losing consciousness.

A prime example of a pit bull not under control and how powerful they are.

So its not a case of being afraid of these dogs but more of the power and what they are capable of and to be careful around them with smaller or less powerful breeds.

Ps I did manage to save the rottweiler but only after someone else helped and we had to prise the jaws of the pit open with a block of wood

Hermit07

seamus wrote: »

St. Bernards are not on the restricted list. There's no requirement to muzzle one nor to keep it on a leash in public. In real terms, a St. Bernard poses a much greater "potential threat" to the public then most of the animals on the list of restricted breeds.

Without getting into the one breed against another debate, a St. Bernard does not have the biting power of a pit bull or staffie or the terrier temperment to match.

Orla K

I would be kind of nervous but only in the sense of this is a new dog and I don't know what it's like, but saying that in the animal shelter I walked into a pen with two big dogs, one was the biggest german shepard I have ever seen the other was just a little smaller. I walked in on my own and did what I had to do but before I walked in I thought oh god I hope they stay calm, on their back legs they would have been taller than me.

Another dog there I think it's a boxer, he's lovely but doesn't like other dogs and who ever 'trained' him trained him to bite. I have walked him in a field on a leash but when he gets excited and starts jumping up and down it means he's going to bite you soon. I just distract him by running with him a bit.

Now if I'm walking my dogs* two jack russels (one miniature) I let them off lead if I'm somewhere with no cars. They are good, Sam doesn't care about other dogs but Sandy gets nervous and barks if she's safe, just runs away/hides at my feet if not. I would be nervous with Sandy around bigger dogs then her(she's the mini so it's just about every other dog) but only if their close to her and she can't get away, she tends to get a little snappy. Before anyone asks she wasn't socailised as a pup, someone else owned her left her in their back yard, collar grew into her neck(won't wear them anymore) and when she went to her new home where she is now she nearly died from a lung infection so with not being able to go outside and at the time not having a harness to fit her she was never socialised. The other one is nicely socialised, when she first came along she was tiny, on our first walk together we met a german shepard + owner the owner stopped at the corner and waited for me to come over, I was nervous because the little pup would have fit into this dogs mouth with out difficulty, the owner saw my panic over big dog vs little pup and said he wanted his dog to meet mine. Que my sigh of relief. the dog was a pup himself and both dogs had a little sniff and went on their way.

With mine when their off lead I normally call them away from other dogs, I don't want other owners getting annoyed over my dogs running around their feet. Normally I see the a bit of panic at a strange dog running over to theirs but I tell them that she's friendly and they are fine about it. I don't see the problem with any dog owners being asked are their dogs friendly. Sandy on the other had I have to explain that she's scared but will avoid other dogs/people.

I don't see whats wrong with people crossing the road, I do it sometime if Sandy gets too scared, but most of the time I stand there until the dog/dogs passes mainly because I can't move because of Sandy hiding.

I don't think most people know which breeds are in the 'dangerous' list and which ones aren't, they only here about the dangerous breeds in the paper, which isn't the best source of info on this.

In short, I'm only nervous of dogs when the owner isn't there the rest of the time I warn/tell people about my dogs, which I think is a good idea for any owner to do regardless of size and breed.


*not mine but I love them, walk them and care for them when the owners are away

seamus

Hermit07 wrote: »

Without getting into the one breed against another debate, a St. Bernard does not have the biting power of a pit bull or staffie or the terrier temperment to match.

Ignoring the temperament debate (whole other thread), a St. Bernard is still a 15-ish stone carnivore with teeth well capable of tearing flesh and breaking bone. A St. Bernard is just as dangerous as a pit bull in a random attack, if not more so because it can accidentally do a lot more damage.

Noopti

In theory the St. Bernard argument is sound: Bigger Dog = has potential to cause significant damage.

But in reality, the reason a lot of those breeds are on the list if because of reputation. Reputation which has been gained because of a minority of people who use and abuse those breeds.

I'm sorry, but if I see a group of unsavory types hanging around a park with a Staffie or Pitbull I will automatically be wary of them and their dog. Nothing to do with the Staffie breed - all to do with those particular people with that particular dog in that particular park.

Whispered

Hermit07 wrote: »

Without getting into the one breed against another debate, a St. Bernard does not have the biting power of a pit bull or staffie or the terrier temperment to match.

Force of bite can't really be accurately because the dog decides to put whatever amount of pressure behind it if you know what I mean. Also, a lab who exercises its jaw, is going to have a stronger bite than a pitbull or a staff who never does. The force of the bite is directly related to the size of the skull afaik. If thats is correct then a St Bernards bite would be every bit as hard as that of a staffie or a pit bull. Coupled with the sheer size of that dog you have an animal, which if it decided to turn, is potentially more dangerous than any of the RB dogs.

I think the most dangerous thing about the RB list is that it tends to encourage people, however smart, to view dogs NOT on the list as safer for some reason.

Noopti

helena.ryan wrote: »

I think the most dangerous thing about the RB list is that it tends to encourage people, however smart, to view dogs NOT on the list as safer for some reason.

Conversely it probably encourages other people of a certain nature to want those dogs, for the wrong reasons.

Whispered

Absolutely - I remember a thread here about a paper calling certain dogs "weapon dogs" and all I could think was that those fools probably caused a spate of thugs to go out looking for a weapon dog. :mad:

EDIT: Makikomi - did something happen recently with your two that made you ask?

Silas45

Up until very recently I was very naive when it came to dog owners I think.

I have a springer who is grand with other dogs. I leave him offlead when we're walking on the beach, woods etc, quiet places where I know he won't get in peoples way or cause offence. He has good recall and is generally completely focused on chasing his tennis ball. If a dog approaches onlead, of course I will assume the owner does not want him mixing with other dogs so i'll call my own back and he'll sit until he passes or il put him onlead for a short while and leave him go again. But generally I'm of the opinion that dogs will be dogs so I see no problem in having them off lead, playing around which each other etc..........if another dog is loose and gets a little bit cross with mine - i generally don't take too much notice, its usually just noise and they just move past one another so im not what you call "an over protective owner"

Three times in the last 3 weeks , we've been approached by loose staffies with owners, now I assume as I do with all dogs who are left offlead by their owners that they're gonna be fine. Over they trot to my dog next to me, ball in his mouth and just launch themselves on top off him, did'nt actually bite in but not far off. Each of these incidents were far more than just a little scuffle between 2 dogs. Owners come running then in a mad mad panic screaming at the dog and the dog not paying a tack of notice! So yes, my perception of these dogs has dramatically deteriorated in the past few weeks and I would be very wary in future of them. And the thing is where I live most staffy owners are the "hard men" type who have them for their tough guy images but these 3 owners here were "normal" responsible looking characters.

The most recent incident was yesterday at the beach when I had my fella sat at my feet and a staffie who had passed and been left back offlead came charging back to us, barrelled in through my legs snapping and snarling while I tried in vain to hunt him off until owner reached him and even then he couldnt catch a hold. Now, yesterday in the height of that fight my springer (and rightly so) barked and turned to face the staffy so I find the comment "staffies dont start fights but they finish them" deeply disturbing - Does that mean if my dog tries to protect himself that'll make things worse??

He's about the same size as a staffie but probably does'nt have a third of a staffies power. I just find it very hard to understand why these people let their dogs off in the first place! If my springer carried on like that they'd be no chance in hell he'd be left off- I'd be ashamed of my life to leave my dog hurt another! These 3 incidents have probably been the most signicant altercations he has been involved in and hes 3 now.....it just seems a big coincidence..............

Anyway sorry for the long post. I love dogs, up until recently i firmly held the belief that the restricted breed regulations were unfair, each dog is different. Nice and nasty dogs of all breeds. I've met lovely staffies (lovely with people never seen them loose with other dogs), rotties, german shepherds etc...........I believe that all dogs deserve a nice home and responsible owners! I would never cross the road to avoid any restricted breed. I believe (maybe wrongly so) that if that dog was a real threat the owner would have it muzzled or indeed cross the street away from me. But my recent experiences didn't portray staffies in a good light at all to me personally - Btw. I don't mean to cause offence to you Makikomi or other far more responsible restricted breed owners on here - just my opinion/experience.

Noopti

helena.ryan wrote: »

Absolutely - I remember a thread here about a paper calling certain dogs "weapon dogs" and all I could think was that those fools probably caused a spate of thugs to go out looking for a weapon dog. :mad:

EDIT: Makikomi - did something happen recently with your two that made you ask?

That kind of reporting really pisses me off. Sensationalist tripe as always!
My brother has an American Pitbull, not only that, but a pitbull that was dumped along with his litter mates at about the age of 4 weeks. My brother had to raise him from that age, so not exactly the best start for the poor dog. Yet, if that paper was to be believed he is nothing but a dangerous weapon. A Jack Russell recently bit him in the balls (poor thing!) and all he did was cry & whimper!