Who is afraid of the big bad wolf?.

Noopti

Silas45, while I understand how horrible those situations can be - surely it is a case of bad owners rather than bad breeds?

Silas45

Noopti wrote: »

Silas45, while I understand how horrible those situations can be - surely it is a case of bad owners rather than bad breeds?

Noopti - I would agree - extremely bad owners but 3 staffies in 3 weeks makes me think that the breed are more likely to be the cause of an altercation than other breeds, but kept under control I suppose this should'nt be an issue. And as discussed above - far more power = far more damage! I'd be pretty confident of kicking a less powerful dog off my own or indeed my own dog would have some hope of protecting himself.

Hermit07

While as big and imposing as the Saint Bernard is, the modern day Saint can barely run around a show ring, I most certainly would not fancy its chances against a pit bull.

The staffie and pit bull have a very powerful jaw with which they can lock on to their victim, Also they have an extremely high pain threshold that would sent the average dog running with its tail between its legs. They have the terriers temperment and as I mentioned already I have seen the pit bull in action and how easily it brought down a rottweiler which was twice its size.

I handle staffies on a regular basis, fantastic dogs but I certainly wouldnt want to meet any of them on the street running loose as I am fully aware of what they are capable of should they be involved in a fight with another dog.

Unfortunately these breeds do attract the wrong type of people and then this tars the decent owners with the same brush.

Noopti

The jaw locking thing was a myth I thought?

andreac

Noopti wrote: »

The jaw locking thing was a myth I thought?

Yes it is, they dont lock their jaw, they can hold on with the strength but it doesnt lock.

Mr. Presentable

I am not afraid of dogs generally, or of restricted breeds in particular. But if I see a restricted breed dog off the leash I will cross the road - not because they are more likely to attack, but because of the more severe nature of the damage they are reputed to do if they do attack, and the fact it is unsupervised says volumes about the owners and the likely upbringing of the animal.

If I meet you and you have your animals properly controlled I will have no concerns about passing your dogs. Further to this, if I have my child with me I would likewise have no problem. If, however your dogs are not muzzled and I have my child with me, I will cross the road whether they are on a leash or not.

Almost without exception when one's dog attacks a child the first reaction of the owner is "that's the first time...." Which of course removes any credence from the dog owner that his/her dog is completely safe.

Hermit07

It is a myth in terms that their jaw doesnt exactly lock but it sure is very difficult to get them to let go. We had to use a piece of wood to wedge the pits jaws open so he would released the rottweiler whose tongue was going blue,

The rottweiler had been on a lead and the pitbull loose, the rottweiler had horrific neck injuries. I will never ever forget it:mad:

The problem is not the restricted breeds but the people who own them, dont realise how powerful (or care) they are and dont control them properly.

Whispered

Hermit07 wrote: »

It is a myth in terms that their jaw doesnt exactly lock but it sure is very difficult to get them to let go.

If you know that lock jow is a myth, why would you say that some dogs lock on? It's flippant comments like that which can give people unnecessary fears of dogs in general.

Whether that particular dog let go in that particular instance or not would have depended on that dog, your reaction and the circumstances. I can't understand that someone who obviously works with dogs would let one incident colour their view of a breed TBH.

Hermit07

helena.ryan wrote: »

If you know that lock jow is a myth, why would you say that some dogs lock on? It's flippant comments like that which can give people unnecessary fears of dogs in general.

Whether that particular dog let go in that particular instance or not would have depended on that dog, your reaction and the circumstances. I can't understand that someone who obviously works with dogs would let one incident colour their view of a breed TBH.

Because it is the best way to describe these breeds in a fight, it is very difficult to get them to let go. It is one of several incidents I have seen. I simply could not stand by and let the rottweiler die. I live in a fairly rough area and pit bulls were once very common in my area and nobody ever muzzled their dogs or even had them on the lead half the time. If you have never had the horror of separating these breeds in a fight, then its very hard to imagine:mad:

Where did I mention that it coloured my view of the breed other than to say they are extremely powerful? In fact I think I mentioned they are fantastic dogs. In fact if you wanted to get a pet for your children, staffies are one of the breeds I would highly recommend. You just have to be aware of the implications of owning one and to be in full control of them around other dogs.

Sure how many times have you been out with your dogs (of any breed) to find some hystercial mother running for cover with her child, all she is doing is giving her children the same fear.

Irishcrx

I used to be terrified of dogs for years after I was attacked by one when I was younger. I was coming home from my aunts one evening and this dog that lived up the road from me attacked me out of nowhere, it latched on to my ankle and was dragging me down the road, think it was a Collie mix of some type, can't remember why it attacked it started chasing me as I passed the garden. I managed to get into my own garden and tried to make it to the porch but I couldn't stand up as it had torn into my ankle. It then started to attack my face and I had to try and punch it away as it kept lunching at me.

Luckily for me, My neighbours German Shepard Busker had saw the attack and jumped his garden gate to come to my aid, he jumped in between me and the other dog (Chelsea) and fought her off then barked for help and stayed with me until someone came. I was fine thanks to the GS but for years I was terrified of any dog after it, I would not only cross the street but turn and run the other direction.

I eventually got over it and realised all dogs aren't like that and it is how they are raised. I now have two dogs of my own Busker my Sib Husky named after the GS that saved me and Holly my own German Sheppard!

Whispered

Hermit07 wrote: »

Because it is the best way to describe these breeds in a fight, it is very difficult to get them to let go. .........If you have never had the horror of separating these breeds in a fight, then its very hard to imagine:mad:
.

You obviously work with dogs (can I ask in what capacity?) I don't. But I did grow up with them. From the time I was young we've had every breed imaginable at different times. I have seen my fair share of fights. Sadly, one of them was killed when my mother could not pull them apart (not by a bull breed or a terrier either, it was a dog my dad had taken in the night before who escaped from his seperate enclosure). It's very very upsetting to see a dog fight. Even a non serious one. The noise and teeth gnashing alone is frightening. But I would have thought it was the same for all breeds. Particurlary large ones. As for "these" breeds fighting. My Staff mix was attacked by a terrier and turned to fight back. I put my hand on him and he stopped immediately, allowing the terrier to pull out of his face while I tried to pry him off.

Hermit07 wrote: »

Where did I mention that it coloured my view of the breed other than to say they are extremely powerful? In fact I think I mentioned they are fantastic dogs. In fact if you wanted to get a pet for your children, staffies are one of the breeds I would highly recommend. You just have to be aware of the implications of owning one and to be in full control of them around other dogs.

You're right you didn't and actually your first post is very balanced. It just seems in your last few here that you see some restriced breeds as dangerous killers. You also said that some bull breeds have a stronger bite than any other dog when in fact the bite force is related to head size and the individual dog. I suppose one or two of your posts reads like a reason to fear these animals and are not really based on fact. (or are based on fact but the same facts can be used with any breed if you know what I mean).

Having met many many dogs, the two worst I have met was a terrier who managed to chew its way out of a carrier while I was transporting him and started going for the back of my head while I was driving. And a red setter who pinned a boxer/staff I was fostering down then turned on its owner when he tried to pull him off. :mad: I have to admit, I would be wary of red setters now. But I know that is my own problem and not actually a reflection on the breed.

Hermit07 wrote: »

Sure how many times have you been out with your dogs (of any breed) to find some hystercial mother running for cover with her child, all she is doing is giving her children the same fear.

I actually had a thread started on this then didn't bother posting it. At the end of our road is a child who runs screaming any time she ses a dog. Que all the kids on the road running out to see whats going on. Staring at us and whispering that he's a "bad doggy" (he's not, he adores kids) I was passing one day and heard the mother tell the kids that the dog wanted them for his supper. :mad: The poor child is so afraid that if you drive past with the dog on the back seat, windows closed, she runs screaming. And her stupid mother is making it worse. :rolleyes:

Hermit07

I'm a mother myself btw:D but yeah I would imagine a fair share of mothers have caused terrible fears in little children. I see it all the time and it must be awful for you to have people commenting on your 'bad doggy' Maybe the next time you hear that stick in a comment of your own about their 'Bad Parenting'

Bascially what Im trying to say inbetween looking after the kids hence some posts might seem unbalanced:D is that once supervised around other dogs, many of these restricted breeds make excellent pets. They are however very powerful and must be always under full control as once in a fight they can do a lot of damage.

You never hear about it if a labrador attacks someone but if its a rottweiler,staffie etc then the whole world hears.

morganafay

seamus wrote: »

While I don't think I be disagreeing with you in terms of sentiments, the problem with the restricted breeds list is that it actually quite indiscriminate - the breeds on the list are only there by virtue of their reputation and nothing more.

By way of example, I've no doubt whatsoever that if my staffie "turned" (she's an animal after all), she could easily remove a nose, a finger or two or do some serious ligament damage to whatever body part she got a hold of.

However, consider a St. Bernard. This is a dog that can weigh anywhere between 10 and 18 stone before it's fully grown. If a St. Bernard turns on you, you would want to hope that you're holding something sharp to protect yourself, because most people would be incapable of fending off an attack from an animal which is bigger than they are

Yeah I agree with that. Like I said I would be just as afraid of big dogs that aren't on the restricted list, especially since there are quite a few breeds not on the list that are known to be sometimes vicious. I wouldn't trust most dogs that I don't know.




But I do think that dogs are dangerous, and while the restricted list in unfair, there does need to be some control of dogs. Maybe the law would be fairer if all dogs had to wear muzzles, or if more breeds had to wear muzzles, or dogs had to pass temperament tests done at the vet/dog behaviourist to have the right not to wear a muzzle . . . but that's all unlikely to happen. I do think it's unfair for good dog owners with friendly dogs that have to wear muzzles. But there are an awful lot of scumbags with restricted breed dogs which are probably not socialised and trained properly, or maybe trained to be aggressive. Even though most of them probably don't even bother with muzzles . . . or just people who don't know how to socialise their dogs properly.

And then there are dogs like greyhounds (btw I love greyhounds) whose natural instinct is to kill small animals like rabbits, but they might think a tiny yorkie is a rabbit and kill that . . . though if they are under proper control then I doubt it. I've really never met an aggressive greyhound though, and lots of dogs could want to kill rabbits . . .

I know I'll probably get yelled at for this, but big and powerful dogs can be dangerous (including non-restricted ones), so while it is unfair that good dog owners have to muzzle their dogs, and you might know your dog would never be aggressive, but how do the guards or the dog warden know that? For all they know your dog could be dangerous. But this could be true of any large/powerful dog not on the list.

And small dogs can be aggressive too, but they are not very dangerous (they could bite someone but aren't likely to seriously injure or kill).

I don't know what they could do to make the whole restricted breed law better, unless they tested every dog's temperament. But I think that if the restricted law helps to get some aggressive/dangerous dogs muzzled, then that's at least kinda a good thing. (Though unfair to everyone else with restricted dogs.)

arybvtcw0eolkf

helena.ryan wrote: »

EDIT: Makikomi - did something happen recently with your two that made you ask?

Well the questions I asked are things I'm always aware of, but more recently the thread on meeting up at Malahide Castle for a walk with the dogs - going back to something Seamus said, first thing that came to mind was the type of people walking in Malahide Castle are usually the same idiots I meet on Malahide & Portmarnock beach's - up their own hole's with a holier than thou attitude.

I have it on the road I live on, I'm the only one on my road who won't let the dogs out on the green to play, despite the fact that they love children, however regularly there's a Lab (who regularly snaps at both dogs and children), a springer (a lovely dog - horrible owner) and a collection of mutts (one of which bit a child on the mouth last week). But because mine are bullies my guys are the one's who suffer through ignorance, although it also mean's I'm walking them for most of two hours a day instead of neglecting them to run free on the street or thrown out the back garden.

Nearby there's a new road opened up, it gives me access to lots of land where the lads are free to run & play. However the good weather has brought out the usual Cav/Pug/Westie (and similar) owner and almost without exception I'm given a wide berth.. So anyway, this and the Malahide Castle thread prompted me to ask these questions.

I do understand the ignorance, I really do. A lot of times I think its funny too, I also think its funny the looks I get too!.. Tbh, apart from my age (I'm 44) I probably tick some of the Staffie/Pitbull owner hardman images, ie my head is usually shaved (or very tight) - I'm big @ 19st, tattoo's & muscular.

I meet up regularly with another poster in this forum, he's got a Staffie too and take the guys out for plays. Great craic, thanks for the replies everyone.

**Edit, here's the post from Seamus;

seamus wrote: »

I've also noticed that "class" tends to make a big difference in people's attitudes. When we bring her walking in Sandymount, many (if not most) people are scrambling to call their dogs and children away. The looks we get are almost along the lines of "How dare you bring that monster onto our beach". Even though any hassle is from small dogs coming up and giving her attitude.
But when we bring her out and around in Dublin 24, loads of people come up with their kids and coo over her and give her a pet.

I can concur with that 100%.. As I've said, my dogs are walked in the vacinity of Malahide & Portmarnock were the attitude to the dogs are mostly negative. However if I have them around friends in Darndale or Ballymun for instance I get a a completely opposite reaction, in these places they're greeted like kings of the canine world where they're loved (and understood) for their temperament with other dogs and humans.

Whispered

I didn't even read that thread, I tend to think the worse and assume that as a RB and a very bouncy in your face one at that, he would not be welcome.

I wonder would people be interested in a RB walk.

Orla K

I was thinking of this thread and I went around town. I never remember seeing a dog with a muzzle on here and I had a look at some of the dogs they were on leads but none had a muzzle, there were only only about three that were rb (may have been crosses I was in the car). Those ones I couldn't see them doing anything wrong, the owners were there, they were in control of the dogs (including sitting down and waiting to cross the road) Around the same area I saw a rottie I remember being faced with a loose big old dog, that I thought might attack my dog for being on his land(it was outside houses) so I crossed the road, so did the dog! (I don't think the dog warden around here does much except give out to people and tell them to get licences)


About this class thing with the rb and fear, is it a good or a bad thing that the 'poor' areas are more used to these dogs? I'm thinking it's more likely that you get the owners that want a dog for itimidation there than in a well off area

maggie82

Not at all, the bigger and "scarier" the better in my opinion. I have a big soft spot for rottis, I've lived with staffies, rottis, gsd x collies and loved them all. If owner treats them right and trains them well there is no reason why they are any more of a risk than any other breed. I work with animals on a day to day basis and tbh there are far worse breeds than any on restricted list out there!

morganafay

I would trust some breeds with cats, and not babies and toddlers, but children. And if you knew the dog then you might know they'd be fine. There are some breeds that 99.9% of the time would never be aggressive. Unless maybe they were beaten and trained to be aggressive, but even then I just can't imagine it.

maggie82

TBH I would never leave any small children/furries with any dog no matter how well I know them, just because it only takes a second for something to go wrong and the damage any dog can do is pretty bad, speaking from experience.

morganafay

I wouldn't let any small furries, but cats are a different matter. Like I would let my dogs be around my cats, but not my rabbits/guinea pigs. I would sooner trust the cats with small animals! And I also know my dogs would never never bite anyone, unless someone was hurting the two younger ones then the older one might protect them . . . but she'd probably just bark and growl.

I'm always saying that no small child should be alone with any dog . . . but I definitely know my dogs wouldn't hurt a child or anyone. There is no way (lol, I know everyone probably thinks that). But the child is more likely to hurt them! And even if it did they wouldn't retaliate. It's just not in them.

Hermit07

I had a cat that used to sleep in with our pigeons:D as in their nest boxes. He would sit with them all day long but chase away any cats that came hunting pigeon.

All of our dogs got on well with the cats, never had any issues except for our humble cocker spaniel. Cant let her near them or have them in the same room together because fur flies

LucyBliss

It's funny you should be mentioning St. Bernard dogs here because a few months ago I happened to be driving through Drumcondra (I don't live in Dublin, I was there for a training weekend) and we'd stopped at traffic lights. I noticed a man walking his beautiful St Bernard (because like so many here I'm sure, I always notice and coo over other dogs when I see them in the car). There were two women walking some distance in front of them. The women were walking like they were doing their evening constitutional and chatting. The St Bernard lunged forward, dragging the owner with him, caught the jacket of one of women and pulled backwards a few steps before letting go, leaving a large hole. I didn't see anything that would have set the dog off, unless something happened previously or the dog just did not care for that jacket!
I'm mentioning this because sometimes you can just never tell and also to balance all the "staffies are bad!" stories out there.

Barks and grunts at other dogs, but when he actually gets over to the other dog, he doesn't know what to do! Its all bravado Typical terriers you gotta love em!

This. So much this. My other dog Meg meets dogs with a big wag of her tail and an attitude that is all "HEYWANNABEBESTFRIENDS??HUH?HUH?DOYA?DOYA?" Then when they come over, she practically leaps backwards as if to say "What the hell are you doing? What's this about? Somebody tell me what's going on??!" Sometimes I feel that if a bigger dog were to give them a shake or tell them to piss off in dog style, part of me would say "you had that coming! Those dogs have enough to be contending with!"

00112984

I'm finding this thread quite interesting. Mainly as a Cav owner, it's interesting to see us being tarred with the same brush for once

Apart from my Cav, I've had a lot of experience with dogs. She's my first small breed and in the past I/my family have had Rotties, big mutts, Old English Sheepies, GSDs, Samoyeds, Labs and terriers.

I'm not afraid of dog, not even big ones. I genuinely think the restricted list is a pile of sh*te and is nothing but scaremongering. I don't cross the road when I see a Staffie or similar coming and I don't pull my Cav away if I'm fairly confident that the other dog is suitably controlled.

I do get annoyed, especially at the beach, with people allowing their dogs (of all breeds and sizes) to roam. My Cav is an intact female and I think I have a right to walk her on a lead when she's in heat without trying to keep any number of dogs off of her.

Anyway, to answer your question, I'm not afraid of big bad restricties. The only dog I've ever had bite me is a terrier and the last pooch to growl at me was a lab.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Orla K wrote: »

About this class thing with the rb and fear, is it a good or a bad thing that the 'poor' areas are more used to these dogs? I'm thinking it's more likely that you get the owners that want a dog for itimidation there than in a well off area

I'm originally from Ballymun, make of that what you will :cool:

Whispered

Makayla Whispering Falconer wrote: »

I'm originally from Ballymun

*removes Makayla Whispering Falconer from friends list*

arybvtcw0eolkf

helena.ryan wrote: »

*removes Makikomi from friends list*

I added you on facebook woman, flirt with me there and leave here for the lunatics :P

Whispered

No you didn't. Ha must have been someone else.

arybvtcw0eolkf

helena.ryan wrote: »

No you didn't. Ha must have been someone else.

Nope, some lunatic with a doggie profile pic.

Just checked, awaiting confirmation from you!.

Whispered

Gotcha

lrushe

Think I must have been born with a litter of pups in my pram cos I can't remember a time in my life when I haven't had a dog or dogs of some size or description tagging around after me. I've absolutely no fear of dogs in the least, I've a health respect for what they could do but I wouldn't describe it as fear.
Interesting that the St. Bernard is mentioned here in relation to RBs as they have their ancestry in the mastiff which has been used to 'beef' up alot of dogs on the RB list.
At the moment I have a Rottie, Chihuahua and Japanese Spitz so I have a dog in all sizes, they are all good tempered and obedient. They all get along fantastically, all three can often be found curled up in the one kennel with the cat thrown in for good measure
As mentioned already I tend to assess a few things when a dog approaches me, does the owner have control? is the dog listening to its owner? what's the dogs body language like, is it marking excessive eye contact, is its hair and tail standing up? and generally I trust my gut feeling.
I love all dogs but gun to my head I'd say I prefer the bigger breeds, just don't tell my Chi