Are all degrees created equal?

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

well you must of heard it in your own head, read what you quoted again i didnt mention jobs

What are you talking about then? Resources? What you learn? Do you really think quality always corresponds with the price of tuition? The most expensive colleges in Ireland tend to be the worst.

tbh i didnt know cambridge was so reasonably priced but it dosnt offer the course im looking for which is why i didnt look any further at that particular college

london business school and oxford and possibly london school of economics have courses im interested in and the costs for those are slightly cheaper but comparable to the cost of going to mit and probably more expensive then going to ucla or berkley

LSE and Oxford are more expensive than UCLA and comparable to MIT? How are you working that out?

weather they believe that or not aside its certainly not true that trinity is the equal of oxbridge overall

That's how it's seen over here and in lots of other countries. I think Trinity is more respected abroad than in Ireland. People are more impressed when they find out I went there then when they find out where I study now.

RichTea

[quote=[Deleted User];65746032] think Trinity is more respected abroad than in Ireland. [/QUOTE]

Definitely wrong. Sorry to say it. It is respected but Trinity heads go on about it being this and that even if they're in the place a week and doing some 'Mickey Mouse' course.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65746032]What are you talking about then? Resources? What you learn? Do you really think quality always corresponds with the price of tuition? The most expensive colleges in Ireland tend to be the worst.[/quote]

i was talking about exactly what i said if you want to go to a top school you have to pay for it

LSE and Oxford are more expensive than UCLA and comparable to MIT? How are you working that out?

well it cost a friend 40Ksterling to attend one of those colleges for one year(all in)

i couldnt be arsed checking agian but iirc ucla is around 40/45Kdollars a year, mit is around 100Kdollars

That's how it's seen over here and in lots of other countries. I think Trinity is more respected abroad than in Ireland. People are more impressed when they find out I went there then when they find out where I study now.

iv said all ill say on trinity individually im not trying to attack your degree or trinity in general

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

i was talking about exactly what i said if you want to go to a top school you have to pay for it

That makes absolutely no sense. As I said, Cambridge is way, way, way cheaper than Harvard or Yale. So is Oxford. So is Imperial College. So is UCL. These universities are all in the world top ten and the fees for UK and EU students are a fraction of most American college fees. What are you talking about?

well it cost a friend 40Ksterling to attend one of those colleges for one year(all in)

i couldnt be arsed checking agian but iirc ucla is around 40/45Kdollars a year, mit is around 100Kdollars

Where was this friend from? Those are international fees for sure, and they're steep even then. Or it's for some super duper special program. Because I go to college in London and I don't know one person who's paying more than £9000 a year for a postgrad course unless they're international. There is just absolutely no way that fees for UK universities are anywhere near as expensive as the average US tuition fee. Where on earth are you getting your figures?

RichTea

[quote=[Deleted User];65746263]
Because I go to college in London and I don't know one person who's paying more than £9000 a year for a postgrad course[/QUOTE]

Nope I know a lot of MAs and stuff that are. And when you get on to MBAs, you're paying SERIOUS money.

RichTea

RichTea wrote: »

Nope I know a lot of MAs and stuff that are. And when you get on to MBAs, you're paying SERIOUS money.

Which MAs and where?

RichTea

RichTea wrote: »

Nope I know a lot of MAs and stuff that are. And when you get on to MBAs, you're paying SERIOUS money.

It's true. I was looking at masters at Imperial College London. Taken from ICL's website, MSc Risk Management and Financial Engineering, the tuition fee for 2010 is £26,600. This fee is the same for both UK and international students. http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/business-school/programmes/msc-risk-management/admissions/feesandfunding

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65746263]That makes absolutely no sense. As I said, Cambridge is way, way, way cheaper than Harvard or Yale. So is Oxford. So is Imperial College. So is UCL. These universities are all in the world top ten and the fees for UK and EU students are a fraction of most American college fees. What are you talking about? [/quote]

i think we are misunderstanding eachother all i said was you need to pay to go to a top school i didnt say how much and i never said you need to pay 100K to get a great job

Where was this friend from? Those are international fees for sure, and they're steep even then. Or it's for some super duper special program. Because I go to college in London and I don't know one person who's paying more than £9000 a year for a postgrad course unless they're international. There is just absolutely no way that fees for UK universities are anywhere near as expensive as the average US tuition fee. Where on earth are you getting your figures?

im saying this is from purely my own research and for purely the course im interested in and mainly figures from the colleges websites

for me to do the course i want to do the cost in london business school v ucla v berkely v virtually any top 20 school in the states iv looked at (besides the top 5) are all comparable (form a cursory glance just there ucla is cheaper) and the average earnings upon graduation are comparable

for mit or harvard the cost is more expensive and the average earnings after are greater aswell

that is all i was saying as regards fees not sure if that clears up whatever the misunderstand was

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

i think we are misunderstanding eachother all i said was you need to pay to go to a top school i didnt say how much and i never said you need to pay 100K to get a great job

But what do you MEAN by that? You're implying that the more money you pay, the better education you receive. Is that not what you're saying? You need to pay to go to any school.

im saying this is from purely my own research and for purely the course im interested in and mainly figures from the colleges websites

for me to do the course i want to do the cost in london business school v ucla v berkely v virtually any top 20 school in the states iv looked at (besides the top 5) are all comparable (form a cursory glance just there ucla is cheaper) and the average earnings upon graduation are comparable

for mit or harvard the cost is more expensive and the average earnings after are greater aswell

that is all i was saying as regards fees not sure if that clears up whatever the misunderstand was

MBA courses and many postgrad business courses are a special case as they tend to be expensive everywhere. What you have discovered is really more of an exception to a rule than a general truth. I'd say over 95% of courses in the UK and Ireland are a fraction of the cost of an equivalent course in the States. I'm paying £3800/year for my course in a world top 5 uni, while a comparable course in lower ranked schools like Princeton and Columbia is many times that. My point is that I would be mad to choose Harvard when I could get educated for a much, much lower price. The point was that you (or someone) said it's realistic for Irish students to go to the States for college and I maintain that it isn't, for the most part. At all.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65746590]But what do you MEAN by that? You're implying that the more money you pay, the better education you receive. Is that not what you're saying? You need to pay to go to any school.
[/quote]

well you dont need to pay to go to school in ireland which neatly brings me around to the point that if we want to compete we need reintroduction of fees for certain people

that is what i was saying in general but i am prepared to withdraw it on the back of newly acquired information shows mbas are particularly expensive and an exception . but my general point was in comparison to ireland if you want a top education you need to pay for it. coming from ireland paying 10K a year or 50K a year is still top dollar for a postgrad and most people dnt seem to realise its much more the norm and ireland is the exception

however i didnt realise you can get postgrad courses for as cheap as you are in a top 5 school and of course its not the worth going to america

The point was that you (or someone) said it's realistic for Irish students to go to the States for college and I maintain that it isn't, for the most part. At all.

again i think you misunderstood what i meant. i said anyone who gets into harvard can afford it due to loans and earning potential, i didnt say this should be their only consideration and they should automatically go just cause its harvard

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

well you dont need to pay to go to school in ireland which neatly brings me around to the point that if we want to compete we need reintroduction of fees for certain people

You don't have to pay? What's the 'registration fee' then? When I was in college, it was almost as much as the tuition fees my siblings paid in the UK and it's considerably more than tuition fees in France and Belgium. They might dress it up in a different way but it certainly isn't free for most people. Anyhow, do you really think paying £3000 as opposed to £950 (or nothing) makes any difference to the quality of tuition you receive? Do you think international students get special tuition because they pay ten times more than the rest of us?

that is what i was saying in general but i am prepared to withdraw it on the back of newly acquired information shows mbas are particularly expensive and an exception . but my general point was in comparison to ireland if you want a top education you need to pay for it. coming from ireland paying 10K a year or 50K a year is still top dollar for a postgrad and most people dnt seem to realise its much more the norm and ireland is the exception

What is this 'norm' though? An MA often costs between 500 and 600 euro a year in Belgian universities, it's generally around £4000 in the UK and $40,000 a year wouldn't be unusual in the States. Do you really believe Americans are better educated than the rest of the world because they pay so much more? I have already pointed out that tuition in the top UK universities is rarely more than £8000/year, tops, which is very similar to Ireland.

however i didnt realise you can get postgrad courses for as cheap as you are in a top 5 school and of course its not the worth going to america

If you had looked into it at all you'd see there are many, many top universities with much more affordable fees than Harvard.

again i think you misunderstood what i meant. i said anyone who gets into harvard can afford it due to loans and earning potential, i didnt say this should be their only consideration and they should automatically go just cause its harvard

You pretty much did say that.

gollem_1975

apologies in advance for not reading the entire thread ( and for the long post ).

its an interesting question but one which is easy to give a short answer

i.e. NO degrees are not created equal

on the other hand it is difficult to provide evidence to back up this statement... because of the sheer number of degrees given by institutions all over the world over a large number of years.

how does one quantify the quality of degrees ? its very difficult to do imo.

outcome in terms of what people do at the end of the degree would be one metric.

however this outcome is dependent on factors other than the quality of the course material, lecturers , fellow students etc.

recently I have been reflecting on my own experience with 3rd level education and came across this article by seth godin which may be of interest.

in relation to the topic itself there are lists published every year of top universities in the world so we could assume that there are 'people' that evaluate the quality of degrees based along similar lines. i.e. the higher the position of the college on these lists the higher standing of the degree program offered by the college.

there are so many degree courses now in comparison to lets say 20 years ago. I think to say they are all equal would be naieve but objectively how many people care if they are not created equal anyway ?

when we graduated we were told that afterwards what we learnt on the course would not be as important so much as the network of people ( your classmates ) you were now a part of as a result of doing the course.


OT : i heard a quip from somebody the other night along the lines of
"a BA in your hand is now about as useful as a page of the clare leader"

RATM

Fremen wrote: »

TCD is known outside of Ireland, so people (in the UK, for example) tend to assume it's better than DCU or the various UCD/UCC/UCG colleges.

It's not really better, just older and more famous. The main Irish universities are more or less on par with each other at undergraduate level.

I wouldn't agree. I did my undergrad in Trinity and am now doing a Masters in DCU. In my final year in Trinity I had 6 subjects. Of these 5 were lectured by professors and the other by a Dr. In DCU I have 6 modules this semester. None are taught by professors, 3 by Drs and 3 by people who have a Masters.

There's a gulf of difference between the qualifications of staff at Trinity and DCU- many of my lecturers at Trinity are internationally renowned experts in their fields- I can't seem to say the same for DCU unfortunately.

That said DCU hasn't got Trinity's stifling level of bureaucracy and is a much more user friendly college to go to IMO.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65746973]
You pretty much did say that.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: ugh no i didnt but whatever makes you happy

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

:rolleyes: ugh no i didnt but whatever makes you happy

You basically said I (or any Irish student) would be silly to choose Trinity or similar over Harvard because of the potential for high earnings, despite the fact that a student loan of about $250,000 would have to be paid back. Even if you did walk into a 90K a year job, that's a HELL of a lot of debt to be hanging over your head. You could go to Oxford or Imperial and walk into a well paid job, with only £15,000 in debt (assuming you avail of the student loan system). It's just absolutely ridiculous to suggest that any Irish student can go to Harvard if they want to. The costs are astronomical and the only people who do it either get full scholarships or have very, very rich daddies. You said there was no difference between an Irish student and one from California, well there obviously is. That kid's parents will have been saving for college since he was born, in most cases, and the American kid doesn't have the option to go to a high quality, low cost institution like Trinity or Cambridge. As I said, even a crappy local college is more expensive than Oxbridge. Why do you think so many American students come to Ireland and the UK to study? Because even paying international fees and flights, it's much more economical than staying in the US.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65749399]You basically said I (or any Irish student) would be silly to choose Trinity[/quote]

well i didnt say that but now that you mention it i completely agree they would be silly to pick trinity over harvard

The costs are astronomical and the only people who do it either get full scholarships or have very, very rich daddies.

i dont know why your picking on harvard i never said harvard was the only place i was talking about but either way i know for a fact that the above is incorrect

Why do you think so many American students come to Ireland and the UK to study?.

because they want to drink for a semester and do modules that make no difference to their gpa at home, i have met very few (1 i think) american students who are american residents and have chosen to come here to study for their entire degree

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

well i didnt say that but now that you mention it i completely agree they would be silly to pick trinity over harvard

Why?

i dont know why your picking on harvard i never said harvard was the only place i was talking about but either way i know for a fact that the above is incorrect

You gave it as an example. And you know for a fact that the above is incorrect? How? Where are these Harvard going normal Irish people all hiding?

because they want to drink for a semester and do modules that make no difference to their gpa at home, i have met very few (1 i think) american students who are american residents and have chosen to come here to study for their entire degree

Well you obviously don't go to Trinity then, or any of the big UK universities. They are everywhere. With all due respect, I have no idea where you're getting this info from. Stuff like this is subjective as it depends on who you know but you don't seem to have any idea about tuition fees or reputation or job prospects re British and Irish universities. You seem to be making things up left, right and centre. I don't know how anyone could honestly say that a UK degree is anywhere near as expensive as the average American one. The only thing you've showed is that MBA's are expensive and I said I agree, but they're expensive everywhere. And still usually much cheaper in Europe than the US.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65751105]Why?
[/quote]

because if they are smart enough to be accepted into harvard they are smart enough to know that its not the only option for a great education and there are other, cheaper, alternatives that are far better then trinity

You gave it as an example. And you know for a fact that the above is incorrect? How? Where are these Harvard going normal Irish people all hiding?

i know it for a fact because i know people who have done it in colleges all over the states without full scholarships and rich daddies

Well you obviously don't go to Trinity then, or any of the big UK universities. They are everywhere. With all due respect, I have no idea where you're getting this info from. Stuff like this is subjective as it depends on who you know

of course its subjective but your the one who brought it up

but you don't seem to have any idea about tuition fees or reputation or job prospects re British and Irish universities. You seem to be making things up left, right and centre.

i already said believe whatever makes you happy, what you think im making up matters little to me

I don't know how anyone could honestly say that a UK degree is anywhere near as expensive as the average American one. The only thing you've showed is that MBA's are expensive and I said I agree, but they're expensive everywhere. And still usually much cheaper in Europe than the US.

and i dont know how anyone can misunderstand something so badly, how many times do you want me to say i didnt know postgrads besides business postgrads were as cheap as they are and again your putting words in my mouth i never said the average uk degree was the same price as the average american degree, in fact i am pretty sure i said specifically im not talking about averages here

Burning Eclipse

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember listening to the boss of Google Ireland a few months ago on the radio, during the debate on grade inflation. I'm sure he said they only accept graduates from TCD, UCD and UCC.

I can guarantee you you're wrong. Two of my classmates were hired straight out of 4th year. Marketing in UL, for the record.

I won't enter into this debate too deeply, except to say that of course not all degrees are created equal, imo.

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

because if they are smart enough to be accepted into harvard they are smart enough to know that its not the only option for a great education and there are other, cheaper, alternatives that are far better then trinity

Yes, there are, that's exactly what I said, giving examples like Cambridge and LSE. But why are you acting like Trinity is rubbish? It's a very good university and very well respected. Why wouldn't people aim to go there? People from all over the world to go Trinity. I'm not quite sure why you're acting like it's some clown college. The college I'm at now has more resources and more famous academics, but there isn't a great deal of difference in the level of education. I actually found Trinity more demanding.

i know it for a fact because i know people who have done it in colleges all over the states without full scholarships and rich daddies

I'll have to take your word for it. Personally, I think it's rather foolish to take on that level of debt for something they could have got for a fraction of the price, but each to their own. I would have loved to have gone to Harvard, but I just couldn't justify the price. Even if you do get an amazing job, you're still paying that loan back for years.

i already said believe whatever makes you happy, what you think im making up matters little to me

I couldn't care less, but if you're going to make statements about how much degrees cost in the UK compared to the US, it might be good to have some idea of what you're talking about. I mean, what you said just isn't true. And that is a fact. I'm not claiming to know everything, but I put loads of research into where to go to university. I study in London now, between two colleges. I have a very good idea of how much things cost and what the quality is like, it's not stuff I heard from my friend's sister's aunt's hairdresser's dog. You've gone from trying to say that Oxford is almost as expensive as Harvard, so people might as well go to Harvard, to 'there are many better and cheaper places'. Which is it?

and i dont know how anyone can misunderstand something so badly, how many times do you want me to say i didnt know postgrads besides business postgrads were as cheap as they are and again your putting words in my mouth i never said the average uk degree was the same price as the average american degree, in fact i am pretty sure i said specifically im not talking about averages here

I'm not the one who is misunderstanding. You did say that you didn't know postgrads were as cheap as they are, so basically your argument was centered on something you just made up and didn't even bother looking into. Why are you saying that it is totally reasonable and sensible to expect Irish students to go to the likes of Harvard when you don't even know how much the likes of Oxford cost? It's a 30 second google. And even if we are talking about that one specific degree you're talking about, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't significantly cheaper, and just as well taught, in the UK. What was your point, then? You just keep changing it, as far as I can see.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65751712]Yes, there are, that's exactly what I said, giving examples like Cambridge and LSE. But why are you acting like Trinity is rubbish? It's a very good university and very well respected. Why wouldn't people aim to go there? People from all over the world to go Trinity. I'm not quite sure why you're acting like it's some clown college. The college I'm at now has more resources and more famous academics, but there isn't a great deal of difference in the level of education. I actually found Trinity more demanding.[/quote]

again your just making things up i specifically said i have great respect for trinity

I'll have to take your word for it. Personally, I think it's rather foolish to take on that level of debt for something they could have got for a fraction of the price, but each to their own. I would have loved to have gone to Harvard, but I just couldn't justify the price. Even if you do get an amazing job, you're still paying that loan back for years.

thats completely fine all i said was anyone who is accepted into harvard can afford it and you blew up. i didnt say it was for everyone or anything else you just made that up yet again.

I couldn't care less, but if you're going to make statements about how much degrees cost in the UK compared to the US, it might be good to have some idea of what you're talking about. I mean, what you said just isn't true. And that is a fact. I'm not claiming to know everything, but I put loads of research into where to go to university. I study in London now, between two colleges. I have a very good idea of how much things cost and what the quality is like, it's not stuff I heard from my friend's sister's aunt's hairdresser's dog. You've gone from trying to say that Oxford is almost as expensive as Harvard, so people might as well go to Harvard, to 'there are many better and cheaper places'. Which is it?

i never mentioned oxford and i said that everything i said is coming from MY OWN RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE

I'm not the one who is misunderstanding. You did say that you didn't know postgrads were as cheap as they are, so basically your argument was centered on something you just made up and didn't even bother looking into. Why are you saying that it is totally reasonable and sensible to expect Irish students to go to the likes of Harvard when you don't even know how much the likes of Oxford cost? It's a 30 second google. And even if we are talking about that one specific degree you're talking about, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't significantly cheaper, and just as well taught, in the UK. What was your point, then? You just keep changing it, as far as I can see.

yawn, again no i didnt say that i said i didnt know about other degrees besides business because i was researching business courses, what i said was based on my research just like i said it was

i think your deliberately getting think about this for no good reason i believe my points are perfectly valid you either are misunderstanding them or simply disagree with them either of which is fine as far as im concerned so i will conclude

the top schools can be afforded weather they are american or otherwise by anyone who gets in

the top schools are better then our schools

if a trinity education helps you reach your goals thats fine if you think going to one of the other schools helps you better thats also fine and assuming you are smart enough to get in you will have no problem affording the education if you move out of the irish mindset of education should be free

i find it dissapointing that we have to go abroad for a top class education and i see the re-introduction of fees as a first step to being able to compete properly with the likes of the top 50 in the world

im done

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

again your just making things up i specifically said i have great respect for trinity

So why did you say there are alternatives providing a far better education?

thats completely fine all i said was anyone who is accepted into harvard can afford it and you blew up. i didnt say it was for everyone or anything else you just made that up yet again.

I didn't blow up. I said that my idea of 'affordable' is not taking out a six figure student loan and living off ramen noodles for 4 years. It isn't affordable for most people. Have you ever had a student loan? Mine is £16,000 and it's so unpleasant to finish college and have that hanging over your head before you've had time to get on your feet at all. Saying that Harvard is affordable is just totally unrealistic. I got accepted into several American colleges and I couldn't afford them, full stop. Even with the very generous financial aid they offer, you still end up paying a fortune.

if a trinity education helps you reach your goals thats fine if you think going to one of the other schools helps you better thats also fine and assuming you are smart enough to get in you will have no problem affording the education if you move out of the irish mindset of education should be free

i find it dissapointing that we have to go abroad for a top class education and i see the re-introduction of fees as a first step to being able to compete properly with the likes of the top 50 in the world

im done

Spoken like someone who isn't crippled with debt at the age of 22. I don't necessarily believe education should be free, but it really seems to me that the Irish people who say they'd have no problem with paying tens of thousands a year for their college education are people who haven't done it. I don't know why you're saying we have to go abroad for a top class education. Trinity is FINE. It's every bit as well respected as Oxbridge and Yale, especially in the UK. It IS around number 50 in the world. It's much, much better than many institution charging the big bucks. I'm not sure why you think expensive = good.

Sugar Free

I don't have much to add only to say that my company (pharmaceutical services) ignores the vast majority of graduate applicants with degrees from IT's.

It's not necessarily fair but I guess they have to filter down the numbers somehow.

I'd also agree with the comment about your network of classmates being more important than your degree - certainly while you're a recent graduate who needs to gain experience first.

melekalikimaka

250k fees for degree in harvard in business
0k fees in trinity

look at the starting wages for a harvard grad
look at the starting wages for a trinity grad

they get very different job prospects
with highly different wages

ya dont see too many harvard grads on the aib/boi grad program now do you

Pittens

and again im talking about post grad stuff here in the main not undergrads who matter little in the grand scheme of things

In terms of world rankings, yes. However this thread is about undergrad degrees, as I read it.

I can guarantee you you're wrong. Two of my classmates were hired straight out of 4th year. Marketing in UL, for the record.

Unless UL has really grade inflated in the ten years since I left i would be surprised if it was in Google's list of undesirables, in general it is quite the opposite.

Does anyone have a link to what Joe Herlihy actually said, and what colleges he actually dismissed? We seem to be guessing.

Pittens

they get very different job prospects
with highly different wages

If the harvard graduate starts on 90K but goes no further then its a definite loss. That is not a great american salary, and would be medicore in the areas where they have to work - expensive urban areas.

I have worked with graduates from harvard on the same wages ( I assume) so that seems like a loss, right? I am pretty sure the management wasnt harvard up the ladder either - that might be the case in law firms but not in the famous computer multinational I worked in. Drop outs at the top.

Anyway, it seems that for engineering Stanford - which is not Ivy league - is preferred in or around silicon valley.

melekalikimaka

melekalikimaka wrote: »

250k fees for degree in harvard in business
0k fees in trinity

look at the starting wages for a harvard grad
look at the starting wages for a trinity grad

they get very different job prospects
with highly different wages

ya dont see too many harvard grads on the aib/boi grad program now do you

What stops people from going outside Ireland after completing their no-fees degree? Trinity is internationally recognised, there's no need to stay in Ireland unless you want to.

If the harvard graduate starts on 90K but goes no further then its a definite loss. That is not a great american salary, and would be medicore in the kind of places where they have to work.

I have worked with graduates from harvard on the same wages ( I assume) so that seems like a loss, right? I am pretty sure the management wasnt harvard up the ladder either - that might be the case in law firms but not in the famous computer multinational I worked in. Drop outs at the top.

Anyway, it seems that for engineering Stanford - which is not Ivy league - is preferred in or around silicon valley.

Exactly. It doesn't really matter if the starting salary is good, you're still a quarter of a million dollars in debt. I mean, is it really worth it? Sure, the starting salaries from UK and Irish universities are lower but doesn't the fact you're not paying back thousands every month for years not sort of even it out a bit?

melekalikimaka

[quote=[Deleted User];65753772]What stops people from going outside Ireland after completing their no-fees degree?[/QUOTE]

i have friends who transferred to america, same job same company- double pay.

the fees are so much, the wages reflect that...

one was from ucd one was from trinity. both transferred, dunno how common it is. but i dont think it is.

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

In terms of world rankings, yes. However this thread is about undergrad degrees, as I read it.




Unless UL has really grade inflated in the ten years since I left i would be surprised if it was in Google's list of undesirables, in general it is quite the opposite.

Does anyone have a link to what Joe Herlihy actually said, and what colleges he actually dismissed? We seem to be guessing.

My mistake, this is what he actually said:

Asked about Google’s recruitment policies in Ireland he said: “We recruit from all seven universities but we recruit principally from three universities – UCD, UCC and Trinity. All three are producing outstanding graduates across the range.’’

Link: http://info-wars.org/2010/03/05/the-dumbing-down-of-irish-third-level-colleges/

opinion guy

So much fighting......


WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!

Killer Pigeon

Came accross something interesting on the top MBA world rankings. While Trinity seems to have a higher world ranking in terms of an MBA than UCD's MBA, the average salary of UCD's MBA graduates is 10,000US$ greater than Trinity. Interesting thought.

Trinity: http://www.topmba.com/school_profile/trinity-mbauniversity-of-dublin-trinity-college/

Averyage salary of MBA graduates from Trinity: 100,000 US$

UCD: http://www.topmba.com/school_profile/university-college-dublin-smurfit-school/

Average salary of MBA graduates from UCD: 110,000 US$

Killer Pigeon

Thirdfox wrote: »

Trinity is ranking within the top 50 in the world (according the THES by the Times). No other university in Ireland comes close, (UCD is in the top 200).

That's not to say the education provided by others isn't as good (or even better) - DIT is the only place in Ireland where one can study optometry I believe. But reputation wise, people have heard of TCD across the world (we're the poorer, less elegant sister of Cambridge and Oxford) whereas, type UCD into Google and you'll find the University of California, Davis...hence the rename to UCDD (the double Ds of Dublin )

UCD was 89th in the world for the 2009 QS world university rankings. The year before it was 108th, the year before that it was 177th. If it's recognition is increasing at this rate, it will be quite close in Trinity in the world rankings within the next 5 years or so.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university/166/university-college-dublin

By the way University of California at Davis is lower than UCD on the world rankings for 2009.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university/85/university-of-california-davis

Also you might want to see this,[
http://tinyurl.com/39ky8of

Thirdfox

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

UCD was 89th in the world for the 2009 QS world university rankings. The year before it was 108th, the year before that it was 177th. If it's recognition is increasing at this rate, it will be quite close in Trinity in the world rankings within the next 5 years or so.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university/166/university-college-dublin

By the way University of California at Davis is lower than UCD on the world rankings for 2009.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university/85/university-of-california-davis

Also you might want to see this,[
http://tinyurl.com/39ky8of

And you might want to see this
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UCD

But that's neither here nor there - however these are the facts (certainly doesn't demonstrate much, except that UC, Davis is higher up on Google's search algorithms). Doesn't change the fact that UCD is now known as UCD,Dublin - something that my friends in UCDD find hilarious too.

And you'll find that I've stated that UCDD's place is 89th for this year - congratulating them on breaking in the top 100 finally. You'll also note that the rate of increase is slowing as the years pass - seemingly indicating that it is approaching equilibrium.

Under your logic Trinity will be increasing by 30 - 7 places each year and we'll end up around 1st in 5 years? :P

seraphimvc

dude,only ucd is moving up that fast,trinity is not.and judging from the development potential prospect, ucd defo has more space than trinity :pac:

wonder what will happen in the next few years of the ranking!

Thirdfox

seraphimvc wrote: »

dude,only ucd is moving up that fast,trinity is not.and judging from the development potential prospect, ucd defo has more space than trinity :pac:

wonder what will happen in the next few years of the ranking!

seraphimvc wrote: »

dude,only ucd is moving up that fast,trinity is not.and judging from the development potential prospect, ucd defo has more space than trinity :pac:

wonder what will happen in the next few years of the ranking!

I believe Trinity jumped from 70+ to 50ish a few years ago, and a jump to 43 now. I don't see much difference to UCDD's 60 place jump two years ago and 20 place jump last year. All jumps are getting smaller. This also requires people to assume the present trend continues - wouldn't be surprised that all Irish uni's go down this year with the funding issues.

DIT has potential...when Grangegorman comes online to offer an industrial challenge to the universities - but isn't that what DCU is for?

In terms of space, UCD definitely has better facilities to expand - but look at number 90 on the list (Emory in the US - 7 billion endowment, 2 gyms (3 50metre swimming pools), private buses for students etc etc. - it's not the size, it's how you use it that counts :pac: ) I hear UCL has the best sporting facilities in the country.

As a former captain of a sports club in Trinity - we certainly could use more gym space though - however, we don't need to pay to book the gym



And looking at the ARWU ranking table Trinity is in the 201-300 category... UCC is ranked ahead of UCD in the 301-400 category :pac:

http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2009_4.jsp

...It's ranked alphabetically after the top 100 - hence UCC ahead of UCD

hada

This thread has turned into a p*ssing contest.

I went to NUIG and am now finishing a Masters at Cambridge. Many of my very close friends are Harvard/Yale/Oxford graduates, while many others are from less well known Unis - students are students, we're all the same in my experience.

This crap about TCD/UCD/wherever being ranked higher means absolutely nothing. In fact, rankings mean diddley squat nothing unless you're top 10 year-in-year-out. i.e. a number low enough that people can actually recognise its continued excellence.

Frankly no one cares if a uni is 42nd, 73rd or 215th. All that signifies is that a hell of a lot of other universities are better than it.

I should also add: Who cares what uni somebody went to? Cambridge alone this year turned away approx 4000 straight A students from undergrad admissions (we operate an interview here) - a lot of the time it's based purely on what school they went to/if their parents are Cambridge alumni, hell, I've even talked to some fellows and they've told me they accepted certain students because they shared a common interest in cricket!! Since you can only apply to Cambridge OR Oxford as undergrad, these academic high achievers will in effect, now be going to lower ranked unis in the UK.

At the end of the day, you make your degree what it is, no matter where you do it.

Let's stop with the smugness please.

Killer Pigeon

Thirdfox wrote: »

And you might want to see this
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=UCD

But that's neither here nor there - however these are the facts (certainly doesn't demonstrate much, except that UC, Davis is higher up on Google's search algorithms). Doesn't change the fact that UCD is now known as UCD,Dublin - something that my friends in UCDD find hilarious too.

And you'll find that I've stated that UCDD's place is 89th for this year - congratulating them on breaking in the top 100 finally. You'll also note that the rate of increase is slowing as the years pass - seemingly indicating that it is approaching equilibrium.

Under your logic Trinity will be increasing by 30 - 7 places each year and we'll end up around 1st in 5 years? :P

Well if you look at TCD vs UCD in the ranking you will see that Trinity is sort of reaching an equilibrium on the world rankings too. http://tinyurl.com/38c42mt

If you enter ucdd, into google I don't get UCD, which means we're not loved at all :(:(:(:(

Killer Pigeon

hada wrote: »

This thread has turned into a p*ssing contest.

I went to NUIG and am now finishing a Masters at Cambridge. Many of my very close friends are Harvard/Yale/Oxford graduates, while many others are from less well known Unis - students are students, we're all the same in my experience.

This crap about TCD/UCD/wherever being ranked higher means absolutely nothing. In fact, rankings mean diddley squat nothing unless you're top 10 year-in-year-out. i.e. a number low enough that people can actually recognise its continued excellence.

Frankly no one cares if a uni is 42nd, 73rd or 215th. All that signifies is that a hell of a lot of other universities are better than it.

I should also add: Who cares what uni somebody went to? Cambridge alone this year turned away approx 4000 straight A students from undergrad admissions (we operate an interview here) - a lot of the time it's based purely on what school they went to/if their parents are Cambridge alumni, hell, I've even talked to some fellows and they've told me they accepted certain students because they shared a common interest in cricket!! Since you can only apply to Cambridge OR Oxford as undergrad, these academic high achievers will in effect, now be going to lower ranked unis in the UK.

At the end of the day, you make your degree what it is, no matter where you do it.

Let's stop with the smugness please.

You know, there is some people out there who still want to stay in Ireland and not move abroad. Therefore the ranking of Irish Universities alone only matters to these people.

Thirdfox

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well if you look at TCD vs UCD in the ranking you will see that Trinity is sort of reaching an equilibrium on the world rankings too. http://tinyurl.com/38c42mt

If you enter ucdd, into google I don't get UCD, which means we're not loved at all :(:(:(:(

Exactly, I think the universities in Ireland (UCD(D) and TCD are reaching the max of what they can achieve - without extra funding, be that from students fees or other sources).

And, to be fair, UCD was renamed to UCD, Dublin. I just abbreviate the second Dublin to D too (I'm sure entering UCD, Dublin into Google gets you the correct university :pac: )

And Hada - I guess you haven't noticed that we're in the AH forum and not the education one? Relax, if people want to vent here then it's par for the course. At least this thread won't get anyone pregnant (unlike 3-D porn films - according to another thread on this forum).

Pherekydes

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

If you enter ucdd, into google I don't get UCD, which means we're not loved at all :(:(:(:(

That's because ucdd is not UCD (surprisingly).

ananas

I went to NUIG as well and I have to agree with some of the other posters. It doesn't matter where you went to college, all that matters is how well you did in your degree.

All this about better degrees from TCD or UCD is crap. My neighbour when she heard that I was doing BCL in NUIG said "Oh thats unfortunate, the Law degree from UCD is much better"-same woman wasn't educated past Junior Cert Level(and looked like a horse) :rolleyes:

hada

Thirdfox wrote: »

Exactly, I think the universities in Ireland (UCD(D) and TCD are reaching the max of what they can achieve - without extra funding, be that from students fees or other sources).

And, to be fair, UCD was renamed to UCD, Dublin. I just abbreviate the second Dublin to D too (I'm sure entering UCD, Dublin into Google gets you the correct university :pac: )

And Hada - I guess you haven't noticed that we're in the AH forum and not the education one? Relax, if people want to vent here then it's par for the course. At least this thread won't get anyone pregnant (unlike 3-D porn films - according to another thread on this forum).

Don't worry Thirdfox, I'm quite relaxed. Regardless, I'm not the one comparing the advantages of going to a university that appears higher up the list in a google search. You have a lot to learn in that regard, and when you do enter the working world with your training contract with AC, you'll meet plenty of non-TCDers/UCDers, and frankly, you won't be able to tell the difference. As I said, it's the person that makes the degree, not the uni.

ananas wrote: »

I went to NUIG as well and I have to agree with some of the other posters. It doesn't matter where you went to college, all that matters is how well you did in your degree.

All this about better degrees from TCD or UCD is crap. My neighbour when she heard that I was doing BCL in NUIG said "Oh thats unfortunate, the Law degree from UCD is much better"-same woman wasn't educated past Junior Cert Level(and looked like a horse) :rolleyes:

Don't worry ananas, NUIG BCL's get on just fine...take it from me

Din Taylor

Lollymcd wrote: »

Are all Irish universities the same? Are some colleges respected more than others? If you pay for your third level qualification are you desperate or privileged?

I'd like to think no in Ireland. While going for graduate interviews in the UK I was not only asked about the universities I went but the school as well. Quite surprised by this as I didn't think it was relevant and so never mentioned it on my CV.

Thirdfox

hada wrote: »

Don't worry Thirdfox, I'm quite relaxed. Regardless, I'm not the one comparing the advantages of going to a university that appears higher up the list in a google search. You have a lot to learn in that regard, and when you do enter the working world with your training contract with AC, you'll meet plenty of non-TCDers/UCDers, and frankly, you won't be able to tell the difference. As I said, it's the person that makes the degree, not the uni.

I'm afraid you've misunderstood me if you think that was what I said. I believe I was drawing attention to (and semi-mocking) the fact that a university changed its name because it did not come top of the google search result.

I can tell you however, that at the other top law firm I interned at, it was 5 UCD law students and 4 Trinity. While other universities do get recruited by the top firms (AC being an example - I know of one UL law student starting there soon, I'm sure there may be others) it isn't ridiculous to suggest that TCD and UCD applicants are given a second glance, at least in the field of law.

And within that overarching scheme, personal dedication and hard work is rewarded on an individual basis of course. I agree that the person makes the degree, but the university does too.

And if you want to have a serious debate/discussion on this matter, I'll gladly follow this up with you in the edu/legal discussion forum. As far as I'm concerned AH is somewhere to be flippant and frivolous - not to have my personal details revealed by others

Royale with Cheese

I've been to UCD, DCU and the University of Cologne. They're all shíte.

Thirdfox

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I've been to UCD, DCU and the University of Cologne. They're all shíte.

At least that one smells better right?

Killer Pigeon

Thirdfox wrote: »

At least that one smells better right?

I think he means Köln.

Sid_Justice

I think in the United States and in the UK there are so so many universities and other 3rd level institutions it's impossible not to rank them in some way and it's useful to do so. I don't recruiters are interested in the relative merits of Newcastle and Bristol or Manchester and St Andrews but they know that Oxbridge and Imperial are the best unis and there are other unis which are practically good in certain areas.

In Ireland, there are so few universities (relative to UK/USA) and the quality of graduate is very similar too imo. I think the best leaving cert students from cork usually go to UCC, the best in galway to NUIG etc. and the best in Dublin to TCD .

Thus I don't think any university has a monopoly on the best leaving cert students or the best graduates (not that the former => latter necessarily). Also, the vast majority of 3rd level grads are mediocre, very few are anything special.

Having said that, I don't think anyone can argue that TCD has the biggest (therefore the best) international reputation. They also have the best reputation within Ireland, especially (as a previous poster has mentioned) amongst the uneducated/uniformed/clueless. UCD and DCU do a lot of work on marketing and advertising, I don't TCD does the same.

I think it's important to remind yourself that there aren't a whole lot of famous institutions out there. If you asked Joe bloggs what the most famous college was he'd probably say Hogwarths. Other than Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Yale, UCLA, a couple of Ivy leaguers and thse with city names, not many people really know the names of top quality ressearch universities. I've met tonnes of people from the US who didn't have a clue what Trinity was or any college in Ireland was before they got here/specially googled it.

I wonder how many people who have chimed in on this thread would know the name of the 'best' colleges in Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, South Africa, China are?

I'm sure half of us only know about Duke university because they were in the media (for the wrong reasons) and american films/movies/books. It's 30000 a year to get a mickey mouse undergrad in Carnegie-melon, woh cares.

ananas

"Don't worry ananas, NUIG BCL's get on just fine...take it from me "

Don't you worry about me, I'm going to turn out juuuuuust fine:cool:

El Siglo

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I think he means Köln.

I think you killed the joke.