Derren Brown Investigates

maccored

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

You say he didn't do them properly. I think he did quite a good job. I quite enjoyed the series.

If we all decided not to do something because there's a chance people might criticise us for not doing it right, then we would get nothing done.

I disagree but Ive no argument. We have differing views, like normal humans.

You do realise that this series aired nearly 3 months ago, right? What exactly do you expect to happen?

Im talking of how his career goes over years, not months. will he be on telly in 5 years time and we all turn to the kids and say ' i remember when his shows were interesting'?

I suspect he may be at the pinicle of his credibility, but you cant really say that based on those last three shows, or based on a few months. I could be completely wrong, but its 'imo' and its really not something I could be arsed debating about - as I say, time will tell.

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

Let's move away from this for a minute!

Do yo think there is PROOF for the Paranormal?

Like, if Derren Brown did an investigation to a standard to which you thought it was a PROPER Paranormal investigation, do yuou think there would be sufficient EVIDENCE for a "positive" conclusion?

Theres a big button up there somewhere called new Thread. You should click it and put that question in one. As far as I can see at present, there's no way to prove the paranormal exists - outside of a personal experience.

I am interested in research on how environmental factors can make people believe they are having a paranormal experience - and there are many that do. thats a whole other story though.

Rather than trying to prove the 'paranormal'.exists, we try and find out how normal everyday radiation like wireless, electrics etc can affect us and make us think we had an experience that could be classed as paranormal. Theres more to it than that, but its not a simple question of if you 'believe' or not.

EDIT
And to answer your question - even if derren brown came with me on 100 'investigations' he'd be lucky to find one or two things in total even slightly weird so the chances of finding 'proof' (which would have to mean he had a personal experience of some kind) in one night? not likely.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

Theres a big button up there somewhere called new Thread. You should click it and put that question in one. As far as I can see at present, there's no way to prove the paranormal exists - outside of a personal experience.

I am interested in research on how environmental factors can make people believe they are having a paranormal experience - and there are many that do. thats a whole other story though.

Rather than trying to prove the 'paranormal'.exists, we try and find out how normal everyday radiation like wireless, electrics etc can affect us and make us think we had an experience that could be classed as paranormal. Theres more to it than that, but its not a simple question of if you 'believe' or not.

So what exactly would Derren Brown have had to do to investigate properly, in your opinion?

maccored

he'd probably have to start researching the paranormal. which isnt what he does really.

Why do you think I'd want him "to investigate properly" in the first place anyway? As I said, pity he didnt look at something more interesting like infrasound rather than expecting to catch a ghost in one night.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

he'd probably have to start researching the paranormal. which isnt what he does really.

Why do you think I'd want him "to investigate properly" in the first place anyway? As I said, pity he didnt look at something more interesting like infrasound rather than expecting to catch a ghost in one night.

I expected your answer to have as much substance as this one.

Dave!

Man this is pretty pathetic stuff

maccored

totally - even though most of thats my fault

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

So what exactly would Derren Brown have had to do to investigate properly, in your opinion?

So you are saying that Derren Brown did a good job investigating with his TV show ? ?

I dont think you seem to understand that "real" investigation is very very boring takes a long time and doesnt sell ratings.

Do you actually think this is real ? ? ?

Busi_Girl08

Deleted User wrote: »

So you are saying that Derren Brown did a good job investigating with his TV show ? ?

I dont think you seem to understand that "real" investigation is very very boring takes a long time and doesnt sell ratings.

Do you actually think this is real ? ? ?

To do this show, Brown spent a week shadowing Joe Power, Lou Gentile and a week attending the Bronnikov workshop.

He met some experts who explained why some of these things may be happening, and they are not paranormal.
He had a stand-off with the person in question at the end, and then made his conclusion.

There were probably hours of footage cut out for time. Bear in mind, it's only a 45 minute or so long show.

Do I think this was real? Some bits may have been a little staged, sure. He went into this investigating Power, concluded he was a hack, Bronnikov was an evil bastard and that Gentile was a man with good intentions but was relying on his own beliefs and confirmation bias waaay too much.

I do think editting played a big part, and perhaps if Gentile hadn't died he may have given a more harsh edit and conclusion. Maybe not.
Ditto Power.


What else do you think he should have done?

*I know this wasn't directed at me, but I really wanted to get my word in *

But that is my point . He spent a week with one person who claimed to be psychic.

1 person !!! for 1 week !!!


now tell me is that proper investigating ?

His conclusion , i fell that this person is cold reading , there for every person who claims to be psychic is cold reading.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

But that is my point . He spent a week with one person who claimed to be psychic.

1 person !!! for 1 week !!!


now tell me is that proper investigating ?

His conclusion , i fell that this person is cold reading , there for every person who claims to be psychic is cold reading.

Did you claim every person is cold reading?

He went to one of the highest profile "mediums" in the UK and exposed him.

What should he have done instead?

Busi_Girl08

Deleted User wrote: »

But that is my point . He spent a week with one person who claimed to be psychic.

1 person !!! for 1 week !!!


now tell me is that proper investigating ?

His conclusion , i fell that this person is cold reading , there for every person who claims to be psychic is cold reading.

He wasn't investigating cold reading, miracle cures or ghosts.

He was investigating a person who claimed to be able to talk to the dead.
He was investigating a person who claimed to have x-ray vision and could heal people through the power of the mind or whatever.
He was investigating a person who claimed to have documented proof of ghosts.

He made a conclusion about each of those people. He made no overall conclusion about their respective fields in general.
He never claimed that everyone who claims to be psychic is cold reading, just that Joe Power is. Anyone who wants to come to that conclusion after watching it is free to.

Busi_Girl08

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

He wasn't investigating cold reading, miracle cures or ghosts.

He was investigating a person who claimed to be able to talk to the dead.
He was investigating a person who claimed to have x-ray vision and could heal people through the power of the mind or whatever.
He was investigating a person who claimed to have documented proof of ghosts.

He made a conclusion about each of those people. He made no overall conclusion about their respective fields in general.
He never claimed that everyone who claims to be psychic is cold reading, just that Joe Power is. Anyone who wants to come to that conclusion after watching it is free to.

Derren Brown claims that all psychics are cold readers. He has not done it in these show's but he has said it in the past.
Derren claims that he does not believe there is an after life and that people who say they talk to the dead are infact cold reading.

To prove this , he "investigates" 1 psychic.

If 5 people witness a crime , why would you just interview 1 and base your conclusion on it.

Worst of all , Derren was unable to prove that the guy was cold reading at the end of the day.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

What should he have done instead?

First of all i would get somebody who would class themselves as a cold reader.
So take Derren for example.

I would ask him to give a cold reading to somebody sitting beside him.

then .....

I would ask him to do a cold reading to an audience, somebody at the back. I would want to see if he can see these subtle change's in the expression.

Then .....

then i would ask him to give a cold reading to a person who he has not met using internet chat in another country.

Then ....

I would have him give reading over a phone to somebody he has never met , organised by a third person.

I would see how he does with these experiments .


I would then search for a psychic, who is not "high profile" and who would be willing to participate in this research . They would be kept annon.

I would then repeat this process with them.

The exact same process with a cold reader .

That idea is off the top of my head. I am sure i could come up with more creative idea's.

Genghiz Cohen

Deleted User wrote: »

But that is my point . He spent a week with one person who claimed to be psychic.

1 person !!! for 1 week !!!


now tell me is that proper investigating ?

His conclusion , i fell that this person is cold reading , there for every person who claims to be psychic is cold reading.

How many paranormal investigators stay at a site/castle/spooky house for an entire week?

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

How many paranormal investigators stay at a site/castle/spooky house for an entire week?

How many paranormal investigators have ever caught a ghost? though in relation to the question, most of the time an apparent haunted location will be visited time and time again, rather than just the once off.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote: »

Derren Brown claims that all psychics are cold readers. He has not done it in these show's but he has said it in the past.
Derren claims that he does not believe there is an after life and that people who say they talk to the dead are infact cold reading.

To prove this , he "investigates" 1 psychic.

If 5 people witness a crime , why would you just interview 1 and base your conclusion on it.

Worst of all , Derren was unable to prove that the guy was cold reading at the end of the day.

When did he claim he had "proved" this?

Derren Brown (among others) provides an alternative, non-supernatural, explanation for how someone can appear to be reading minds, or communicating with dead people etc.

Given that the support for psychic claims seems to be mostly based on people not understanding how else they could do it apart from doing what they claim they are doing, this seems to be a valuable service.

maccored

i think the point is he didnt really show any alternatives other than people con others by pretending to be 'mediums' and 'mindreaders'. Really, if anyone is stupid enough to fall prey to that, then thats their own lookout. No need to do (yet) another tv show about that crap.

I still think it was pretty boring TV.

Zombrex

maccored wrote: »

i think the point is he didnt really show any alternatives other than people con others by pretending to be 'mediums' and 'mindreaders'. Really, if anyone is stupid enough to fall prey to that, then thats their own lookout. No need to do (yet) another tv show about that crap.

I still think it was pretty boring TV.

well apparently millions of people continue to fall for it, so I'm not sure it is working

maccored

and they're being educated by a prime time tv show? doesnt that make one fear for society? I honestly did expect more - theres plenty of 'expose' type stuff on mediums etc already.

Zombrex

maccored wrote: »

and they're being educated by a prime time tv show?

Well yes, you hit the nail on the head with "prime time".

maccored

aye, but derren brown has always managed prime time without pandering to the obvious.

KeithAFC

The guy obviously wasn't very good but he picked a poor medium tbh. Should of picked Philip Soloman or something.

And the show did show us cold reading tricks but it didn't prove that mediumships skills don't exist.

And yes, there has been paranormal groups which have stayed at locations for more than a week, some even for a month or months. Just constantly working and investigating.

KeithAFC

MrStuffins wrote: »

Let's move away from this for a minute!

Do yo think there is PROOF for the Paranormal?

Like, if Derren Brown did an investigation to a standard to which you thought it was a PROPER Paranormal investigation, do yuou think there would be sufficient EVIDENCE for a "positive" conclusion?

There is proof. I believe in the paranormal/spirit world but i don't believe in god. I know some might find that amazing but i seriously do believe in the spirit world now.

Iv seen enough evidence to convince me.

MrStuffins

KeithAFC wrote: »

There is proof. I believe in the paranormal/spirit world but i don't believe in god. I know some might find that amazing but i seriously do believe in the spirit world now.

Iv seen enough evidence to convince me.

Do share!

Genghiz Cohen

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

How many paranormal investigators stay at a site/castle/spooky house for an entire week?

Well i have. But this brings up the question of , how many paranormal investigators have the budget of Derren Brown and actually investigate the Paranormal as a living ?? Hardly any .

I think thats why i was very disappointed with the show.


Oh i forgot , after all the episodes nothing was really proved .

maccored

i think someone is bound to pop up to say the shows werent meant to prove anything, or something. Or to warn people of fraudulent activity .. something along those lines. As I say, should have been on panorama or something.

MrStuffins

C4's description of the show, as cited by Maccored in post 227

Derren Brown looks at some extraordinary claims from around the world, documenting a medium, a ghost hunter and a psychic expert

This is exactly what he did, unless you were watching another show?

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

C4's description of the show, as cited by Maccored in post 227

This is exactly what he did, unless you were watching another show?

So really its Derren Brown Documents , not investigates .

I suppose that makes sense.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

So really its Derren Brown Documents , not investigates .

I suppose that makes sense.

If that's how you see it.