Derren Brown Investigates

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

haha - ok, derren brown is solid, scientific fact. that suit you better?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

maccored

indeed. I rest my case.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

indeed. I rest my case.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

maccored

i thought that would have sprung you from your 'sarcastic smiley' volley, but it seems not. The bait wasnt even touched.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

i thought that would have sprung you from your 'sarcastic smiley' volley, but it seems not. The bait wasnt even touched.

It seriously wasn't even worth a reply.

You knew your reply was silly, so what was the point?

DyldeBrill

Deleted User wrote: »

That was rubbish really . He didnt really prove anything. I am still waiting to see his "scientific" experiment.

The only impressive part was Darren giving the girl from Hollyoaks a reading. Well i thought it was impressive untill i reamembered she was famous and you can probably read her story in OK magazine.

It was rubbish really . Its a "skeptics" most haunted show. No real science at all .

I'm sorry but that is pure bull.I dunno if you were watching the same show as me but he most def proved his case.I believe in cold reading and I believe thats exactly what they do.And I believe that joe is an absolute fake.To make himself look legit he brought derren to his next door neighbours....what a tool

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

It seriously wasn't even worth a reply.

You knew your reply was silly, so what was the point?

nothing is ever not worth a reply. If you think my point was silly, why the sarcastic smiley and not something to actually contradict me with.

Derren Browns TV show is entertainment, not research into the paranormal. Are you denying that?

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

nothing is ever not worth a reply. If you think my point was silly, why the sarcastic smiley and not something to actually contradict me with.

Derren Browns TV show is entertainment, not research into the paranormal. Are you denying that?

With ridiculous comments like this, you still wonder why you didn't get a reply?

maccored

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is pure bull.I dunno if you were watching the same show as me but he most def proved his case.I believe in cold reading and I believe thats exactly what they do.And I believe that joe is an absolute fake.To make himself look legit he brought derren to his next door neighbours....what a tool

I dont think anyone round here is trying to defend the people from the paranormal side who are in those shows. That medium was indeed a tool. The mind reading guy in the next show was a looper and the ghost hunter in the final one really believed artifacts in a picture was a person. The show wasnt showing anythign about the paranormal - it was just showing mr brown grabbed himself a couple of handy things to debunk without really looking too deep into the whole thing.

Those three shows dont prove or disprove anything and thats pretty obvious to see from watching them. It *is* like the cynics version of most haunted.

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

With ridiculous comments like this, you still wonder why you didn't get a reply?

Ans that was answering my question how? Its ridiculous to suggest theres no question not worth answering? I assume you just cant argue the point (conidering you havent answered my question)

DyldeBrill

DyldeBrill wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is pure bull.I dunno if you were watching the same show as me but he most def proved his case.I believe in cold reading and I believe thats exactly what they do.And I believe that joe is an absolute fake.To make himself look legit he brought derren to his next door neighbours....what a tool

I believe in cold reading too. I know there are people who claim to be psychic that use cold reading.
But how is it people can give readings over the phone ? Or over Email ? Did he investigate that ? No he didnt .

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

Ans that was answering my question how? Its ridiculous to suggest theres no question not worth answering? I assume you just cant argue the point (conidering you havent answered my question)

But you just keep saying the same thing again and again. You've made your point and it's not valid! I have argued against your argument already earlier in the thread, you have brought nothing further to argue. You are just repeating yourself.

maccored

the point that the show is entertainment isnt valid? We both live on planet earth dont we? Or is your version of TV shows different than everyone elses?

Spell it out 'ENT ER TAIN MENT' - normally not very much based in anything more than what will get the jaws flapping - but TV shows generally arent great as research tools.

Much like most haunted doesnt tell us much about paranormal research, neither did this show. I'd love to see how you can 'argued against' that and keep a straight face. You are, sir, as bad as those who believe anything if you think otherwise.

MrStuffins

Play it again Sam!

I've argued your points already. Whats the point if you have nothing more to add?

maccored

interesting - I cant seem to find your post answering that question.

Ah no worries - I suppose its OK to chicken out every now and then.

Im just going to assume from now on that you realise that the three part series from derren brown didnt really cover the paranormal to any degree outside of the usual, stereotypical medium/mindreader/ghosthunter angle - much like most haunted does it for the 'believers', this series is for the cynics. Nothing unfortunately for those of us who are sceptics.

There are plenty of logical, reasonable minded and skeptical paranormal people involved in paranormal research he could have used instead, but he wisely avoided those as it wouldnt have made good, entertaining, stereotypical and cynical TV.

i do assume you already know that.

maccored

and for the record, I'd always watch a derren brown show. I enjoy his stuff. I dont take it as gospel though (its tv after all)

MrStuffins

So, by your logic, any kind of investigation automatically becomes void once the results are shown on TV and people are entertained?

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

interesting - I cant seem to find your post answering that question.

I hope you're better at finding Ghosts than finding posts.

maccored

what investigation? the tv show we are talking about bears no resemblance to actual paranormal research - which you seem to think proves that paranormal is all made up or something.

Thats where we differ. Yout hink the three shows prove something - I dont even think they represented the paranormal in the first place, nevermind proved anything. I dont believe what I see on most haunted. I expected a hellofa lot more from derren brown and he came up with something as bad as most haunted.

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

I hope you're better at finding Ghosts than finding posts.

whats a ghost exactly?

Work away and prove me wrong. Bring me the post where you explained how TV isnt entertainment (or actually successfully argued anything else)

maccored

and while we're at it. i clearly outlined my view on this. What exactly is yours? that these three shows go someway to proving the 'paranormal' as is generally referred to, doesnt exist?

maccored

cus thats just mad, ted.

MrStuffins

Haven't you read the thread?

maccored

I have and Im still none the wiser.

Question:

Did the shows disprove anything?

Answer:

Not really. It proved swindlers can take you money by acting as a medium or mind reader and that people can have strange belief systems .. but it didnt actualyl touch on paranormal research.

If you can dispute that then work away, but please, for pitys sake refrain from answering my questions with questions like 'did you read the thread' or 'I hope you're better at finding Ghosts than finding posts' because that tells me nothing.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

I have and Im still none the wiser.

Question:

Did the shows disprove anything?

Answer:

Not really. It proved swindlers can take you money by acting as a medium or mind reader and that people can have strange belief systems .. but it didnt actualyl touch on paranormal research.

If you can dispute that then work away, but please, for pitys sake refrain from answering my questions with questions like 'did you read the thread' or 'I hope you're better at finding Ghosts than finding posts' because that tells me nothing.

Do you think he set out to disprove the paranormal?

maccored

Derren Brown looks at some extraordinary claims from around the world, documenting a medium, a ghost hunter and a psychic expert

That kind of suggests the paranormal to me - dont you agree?

maccored

Plus doesnt the fact this thread is in the paranormal forum not suggest the same idea? What did you think the shows were about? Proving the paranormal exists?

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Do you think he set out to disprove the paranormal?

?

Derren Brown looks at some extraordinary claims from around the world, documenting a medium, a ghost hunter and a psychic expert

He did exactly what is quoted here didn't he? Were you watching the same show?

maccored

I do see what you're doing - called 'stalling', as you cant seem to understand the points put to you.

The show was called Derren brown Investigates. now, you normally investigate something so you can form an opinion when you are finished.

In this case, he's investigating mediums, ghost hunters etc - ie the paranormal (unless you want to dispute that). Theres only two opinions - either the paranormal is real (proving it) or isnt real (disproving it).

Now I have made my point pretty clear at this stage of the game, in that he wasnt 'investigating' anything really, certainly not the paranormal. It should have been investigating fraudsters as basically thats what he was doing. its more crime related than paranormal.

What exactly is your point in this whole debate as all i can see over your posts in the last few pages are either silly things like 'have you read this thread' or else further questions. Nowhere have you clearly stated your thoughts on this or what your actual point is (you may have noticed i still havent got it)

So once more, I ask you what is your view?

MrStuffins

It's funny because, you used a quote to try to favour your argument........ but the quote explains exactly what the show was. We both watched it.

I gave my views already, you are not asking anything i haven't already answered!

maccored

case closed your honour. I think you've proved my point nicely.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

case closed your honour. I think you've proved my point nicely.

I'm surprised you think so

Busi_Girl08

maccored wrote: »

I do see what you're doing - called 'stalling', as you cant seem to understand the points put to you.

The show was called Derren brown Investigates. now, you normally investigate something so you can form an opinion when you are finished.

In this case, he's investigating mediums, ghost hunters etc - ie the paranormal (unless you want to dispute that). Theres only two opinions - either the paranormal is real (proving it) or isnt real (disproving it).

Now I have made my point pretty clear at this stage of the game, in that he wasnt 'investigating' anything really, certainly not the paranormal

If I may butt in; He wasn't investigating the "paranormal", he was investigating people who claim to have paranormal abilities.
ie. Joe Power - "The Man Who Contacts the Dead"
The Bronnikov Method "The Man With X-Ray Eyes"
The Ghost Hunter.

He investigated each individual, concluding the the first two were frauds, out to manipulate vulnerable people out of their money and self-respect, and the latter, while he may have been well meaning, his own investigations may have been nothing more than confirmation bias, wishful thinking and the power of suggestion. (Gentile may have been given a more gracious edit, out of respect for his family)

. It should have been investigating fraudsters as basically thats what he was doing. its more crime related than paranormal.

As a matter of fact...that's exactly what he did.

maccored

I obviously seem to be in a very pedantic thread, but nevermind. If you believe you can claim to be investigating people with apparent paranormal abilities without claiming to be investigating something apparently paranormal then more power to ye. I can see where you're coming from, but then that would mean they were marketing the wrong people (they really should have been targeting those with in an interest in social crime stories) adn this thread shouldnt really be in the paranormal forum as you reckon the fraud part means something and the so called paranormal part has no part of it.

In other words, you're backing up what Ive been saying.

Busi_Girl08

maccored wrote: »

I obviously seem to be in a very pedantic thread, but nevermind. If you believe you can claim to be investigating people with apparent paranormal abilities without claiming to be investigating something apparently paranormal then more power to ye. I can see where you're coming from, but then that would mean they were marketing the wrong people (they really should have been targeting those with in an interest in social crime stories) adn this thread shouldnt really be in the paranormal forum as you reckon the fraud part means something and the so called paranormal part has no part of it.

What?

In other words, you're backing up what Ive been saying.

No...

You're saying Derren claimed to investigate the paranormal, and did it badly.
We are correcting you and telling you that he was investigating claims that individual people made about certain paranormal abilities.
If he was investigating psychic abilities and talking to the dead in general, he would have investigated more than 1 person. All he did in this case was conclude that Joe Power is a fraud (in so many words)
He investigated Bronnikov, who claimed to have X-Ray vision and could heal peoples' ailments with the power of the mind. Brown didn't denounce healing (miracle, spiritual or otherwise) as a whole, he just debunked this asshole.
He then investigated Lou Gentile's claims as a ghost hunter (not a power, as such, just more his own investigations, beliefs and work). He made the conclusion that I mentioned above, although he did seem quite incredulous about the whole thing. That may have been the one investigation where Derren made his feelings more clear, but he could very easily have spent a week with Yvette Fielding, the ther American Ghost Hunter guys, etc if he wanted to debunk the whole ghost hunting phenomenon.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

I obviously seem to be in a very pedantic thread, but nevermind. If you believe you can claim to be investigating people with apparent paranormal abilities without claiming to be investigating something apparently paranormal then more power to ye. I can see where you're coming from, but then that would mean they were marketing the wrong people (they really should have been targeting those with in an interest in social crime stories) adn this thread shouldnt really be in the paranormal forum as you reckon the fraud part means something and the so called paranormal part has no part of it.

In other words, you're backing up what Ive been saying.

These people have been claiming to have paranormal powers.

Ever heard of Ali Dia? Ex-Southampton player who pretended to have footballing skills (powers?).

Do you think people in the Soccer forum are saying "Lads, Ali Dia only claimed to be a footballer, he wasn't actually one! We shouldn't be talking about him on the Soccer Forum!"

maccored

thats precisely what Ive been saying - as in its nothing to do with the paranormal. That basically he's chosen people he can easily oust as frauds - Im not arguing against that.

He not investigating the paranormal, but his show was marketed at the paranormal community. thats why we're here, in the paranormal forum, talking about it. Theres where I have the problem.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

thats precisely what Ive been saying - as in its nothing to do with the paranormal. That basically he's chosen people he can easily oust as frauds - Im not arguing against that.

He not investigating the paranormal, but his show was marketed at the paranormal community. thats why we're here, in the paranormal forum, talking about it. Theres where I have the problem.

You quoted C4 on how the show was exactly described.

The show described was the show that we all saw. Just give it up!

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

These people have been claiming to have paranormal powers.

Ever heard of Ali Dia? Ex-Southampton player who pretended to have footballing skills (powers?).

Do you think people in the Soccer forum are saying "Lads, Ali Dia only claimed to be a footballer, he wasn't actually one! We shouldn't be talking about him on the Soccer Forum!"

well, this isnt 'the cynical' forum.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

well, this isnt 'the cynical' forum.

Well done! :rolleyes:

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

You quoted C4 on how the show was exactly described.

The show described was the show that we all saw. Just give it up!

yes - and you need to make your mind up. Either it was insinuating it was investigating the paranormal (which it can be read as) or it isnt investigating the paranormal (which is what I have been saying decribes the actual show.)

Its basically a crime story with 'the paranormal' being the chosen way to rip people off. Thats not paranormal.

Busi_Girl08

maccored wrote: »

thats precisely what Ive been saying - as in its nothing to do with the paranormal. That basically he's chosen people he can easily oust as frauds - Im not arguing against that.

He not investigating the paranormal, but his show was marketed at the paranormal community. thats why we're here, in the paranormal forum, talking about it. Theres where I have the problem.

He was investigating people who made "PARANORMAL CLAIMS". Surely that would be of interest to a forum that discusses ghostly visits, psychics, etc every day.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

yes - and you need to make your mind up. Either it was insinuating it was investigating the paranormal (which it can be read as) or it isnt investigating the paranormal (which is what I have been saying decribes the actual show.)

Its basically a crime story with 'the paranormal' being the chosen way to rip people off. Thats not paranormal.

In what language exactly?

Derren Brown looks at some extraordinary claims from around the world, documenting a medium, a ghost hunter and a psychic expert

?

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well done! :rolleyes:

i wasnt trying to be funny. You can either be cynical about this (and use it as a battering ram against mediums and psychics) or admit it's nothing to do with the paranormal as its more about fraud than anything else. If an insurance salesman was out to rip you off, its not really anything to do with insurance community, its more to do with the fraud of taking your money. Its the same here, except this time they're using the paranormal to take your money.

Busi_Girl08

maccored wrote: »

Its basically a crime story with 'the paranormal' being the chosen way to rip people off. Thats not paranormal.

It's a well established fact that there are people out there who use peoples' beliefs in God/Virgin Mary, etc to get fame and fortune out of their vulnerability.

These people are discussed at length in the Christianity forum.

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

In what language exactly?

Does your language not associate mediums, ghosthunters and mind readers with the paranormal? Really, ive better things to do than answer that kind of waffle (ah ok, i dont really)

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

If an insurance salesman was out to rip you off, its not really anything to do with insurance community, its more to do with the fraud of taking your money. Its the same here, except this time they're using the paranormal to take your money.

But i might expect to see it being discussed in the Insurance forum, and i wouldnt then go to that forum and argue against the merits of the conversation JUST because it was in that particular forum............ which seems to be what you're doing now.

MrStuffins

maccored wrote: »

Does your language not associate mediums, ghosthunters and mind readers with the paranormal? Really, ive better things to do than answer that kind of waffle (ah ok, i dont really)

You just get more ridiculous!

You used this quote yourself! The show i, you and everyone else watched was exactly as advertised in your quote.

Don't you get it?

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

But i might expect to see it being discussed in the Insurance forum, and i wouldnt then go to that forum and argue against the merits of the conversation JUST because it was in that particular forum............ which seems to be what you're doing now.

no, you wouldnt. if someone called to your house pretending to be a salesman and stole your jewelery, it wouldnt have anything to do with people selling things.

I see your point - this is of paranormal interest because its about mediums etc ripping people off (though you are totally ignoring the final show as he didnt rip anyone off) - thats fine, even with that decrepancy. I see that completely.

It doesnt make it of any use to those interested in the paranormal though. Unless you werent aware that people often take money by claiming to be mediums.

Though the fact the ghosthunter in the last show wasnt ripping anyone off, and that kinda shows that mr brown wasnt doing the shows just to prove how you could be swindled - well, the only other reason he was chosen that I can see is because he claimed to be a ghost hunter, which would mean derren really was trying to investigate the paranormal ... but I'll leave that out of it.

maccored

MrStuffins wrote: »

You just get more ridiculous!

You used this quote yourself! The show i, you and everyone else watched was exactly as advertised in your quote.

Don't you get it?

i already asked you to explain your point of view to me, but you refused.