"Sydney is expensive"....ah shurrup!

Father Damo

Is anyone else baffled when they hear some Irish come out with this one? I can half understand the mindset when someone from wherever in the north of England that does 1 pound pints says it, but why do so many Irish have such a short term memory and think that this place is expensive? Granted, the slimming of the difference in the euro/ dollar means everything is no longer litreally half as cheap as it once was, but still like.Where does this crap come from? Do you regard it as expensive?

DamoDLK

I regard most of the Australian Cities which I have visited as being expensive.

Cars are the best example I have in mind!

mandrake04

DamoDLK wrote: »

I regard most of the Australian Cities which I have visited as being expensive.

Cars are the best example I have in mind!

Are you talking about the expensive Fuel or the expensive Insurance?


or the expensive new cars

Australia NEW (2010 model) Toyota Land Cruiser Prado VX 3.0 DT Auto $75490 (€52929)

V

Ireland NEW (2009 model) Toyota Land Cruiser GX 3.0 D4D SUV Auto €71905 ($102554)


(the above cars are slightly different but similar specs)

http://www.cbg.ie/NewCars/Toyota/Land_Cruiser/SUV_5_dr/GX_3.0_D4D_LWB.aspx

http://www.toyota.com.au/prado/specifications/vx-turbo-diesel

In Australia Diesel $1.28 L (€ 0.90) Petrol $1.29 (€0.91)
In Ireland Diesel €1.33 ($1.89) Petrol €1.23 ($1.75)

http://www.pumps.ie/
https://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/petrolwatch_countryprices.htm


As for insurance here is 2 examples

2008 Land Cruiser Prado GXL 3.0 D fully comp insurance 33 yo man no claim Business use $1350 (€ 946)

2009 Toyota Rav 4 2.4L fully comp insurance 24 yo female Private $1200 (€840)


(I do think older used cars are a bit over priced, you can get a real old banger back in Ireland for 1/2 price)

DamoDLK

mandrake04 wrote: »

Are you talking about the expensive Fuel or the expensive Insurance?
or the expensive new cars......

No - just from personal experience - used car market is an expensive one, old cars which would be off the Irish market years ago are still available and asking for e.g. $3000.

In response to you Toyota example:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Land-Rover/Range-Rover/200908191878930/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.tradingpost.com.au:80/Automotive/Used-Cars/Small-Medium-Family-Prestige-Cars/AdNumber=D468400192932?BackToResult=true&AdOnTop=

mandrake04

DamoDLK wrote: »

No - just from personal experience - used car market is an expensive one, old cars which would be off the Irish market years ago are still available and asking for e.g. $3000.

In response to you Toyota example:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Land-Rover/Range-Rover/200908191878930/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.tradingpost.com.au:80/Automotive/Used-Cars/Small-Medium-Family-Prestige-Cars/AdNumber=D468400192932?BackToResult=true&AdOnTop=

My Toyota example was for New cars, I did mention at the bottom of my post that the price of old scrappers in Australia is over priced

Zambia

Australia is expensive.

But it is what it is and it suits me fine

mandrake04

To be honest at the moment I am looking to buy a house in Sydney.... That is expensive but I am going just have to bite the bullet.

universe777

mandrake04 wrote: »

Australia NEW (2010 model) Toyota Land Cruiser Prado VX 3.0 DT Auto $75490 (€52929)

V

Ireland NEW (2009 model) Toyota Land Cruiser GX 3.0 D4D SUV Auto €71905 ($102554)

You can't really compare new car prices with Ireland, which has notoriously high VRT.

Anyone that says Australia is not expensive is living in the clouds, and living in a ****ty hostel, eating 2 minute noodles everyday and drinking nothing but water.

ballooba

I find the cost of living very cheap in Australia. I'm much better off than I ever would have been in Ireland.

mandrake04 wrote: »

To be honest at the moment I am looking to buy a house in Sydney.... That is expensive but I am going just have to bite the bullet.

I think it would be nuts to buy into Australia's bubble, but each to their own. Australia hasn't even had the GFC yet.
[Edit]food for thought:http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26758&start=180[/edit]

FreeAnd..

ballooba wrote: »

I find the cost of living very cheap in Australia. I'm much better off than I ever would have been in Ireland.

I think it would be nuts to buy into Australia's bubble, but each to their own. Australia hasn't even had the GFC yet.
[Edit]food for thought:http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26758&start=180[/edit]

+100000000000 - next few years are going to be pretty rough in Oz

- not that here is really a place for discussion of it, i spend enough time on the pin as it is - this place is the only break i get from it

mandrake04

ballooba wrote: »

I find the cost of living very cheap in Australia. I'm much better off than I ever would have been in Ireland.

I think it would be nuts to buy into Australia's bubble, but each to their own. Australia hasn't even had the GFC yet.
[Edit]food for thought:http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26758&start=180[/edit]

Yeah thats what I was thinking myself, but my GF father has lived in Sydney for 30 years and he reckons that as long as you are careful with what area you decide to buy into you cant really lose.

I really don't think there will be housing bubble anything like Dublin or Ireland, there is a major shortage of housing in Sydney.

mandrake04

universe777 wrote: »

You can't really compare new car prices with Ireland, which has notoriously high VRT.

Anyone that says Australia is not expensive is living in the clouds, and living in a ****ty hostel, eating 2 minute noodles everyday and drinking nothing but water.

Well DamoDLK brought the subject up about cars, Fuel, Insurance and new cars are definitely cheaper than Ireland.

European cars are wildly more expensive in Australia compared to the Price of Jap and Aussie made cars. Thats why DamoDLK example of the Range Rover was more expensive that would be classed a European Luxury car also the price of Jaguar here is far more expensive. Try buying a 4 year old 6.0L V8 Commodore in Ireland, definitely pay more in Ireland than you would in Australia for one of those.

But on the other hand

You could buy a decent scrapper Corolla in Ireland for €500 but exact same car would cost $2000 in Australia.


Off the subject of cars and onto everyday stuff

Australia is pretty expensive, $2.50 for a bottle of water or $2.50 for a Mars bar is pretty expensive.

Also value it also depends on where you shop, there are big differences depending on the suburb. I might pay less for something in my local supermarket than I would in the likes of Bondi Junction.

eringobragh

mandrake04 wrote: »

I really don't think there will be housing bubble anything like Dublin or Ireland, there is a major shortage of housing in Sydney.

I hope for your sake your right, there was alot of scaremongering in the irish market 'buy now or commute from a 400k portacabin in Mayo'

Zambia

In relation to housing. I think you are safe enough as long as you dont go nuts on extras or non value adding items. Gold taps etc. Since I started writing this post a about 10 more people have come to live in Oz. As long as there are people there will be a demand for housing. As long as there is a good demand houses will not crumble in value.

Besides you have to live somewhere.

Items here that are expensive are numerous.

Food is by no means cheap, Petrol is cheaper but I went and cancelled out those savings by buying a 4 litre car.

You can survive here very cheaply but if you want to live here you will find things rise up very fast.

Consider
Car tax
Car Insurance
Medical insurance
Rent(on a place you can live in without 6 people splitting the rent)/Mortgage (mortgages are flying up)
Gas
Water
Electricity
etc
Phone charges

m@cc@

Father Damo wrote: »

but why do so many Irish have such a short term memory and think that this place is expensive?

Because not all Irish people are from Dublin.

FreeAnd..

eringobragh wrote: »

I hope for your sake your right, there was alot of scaremongering in the irish market 'buy now or commute from a 400k portacabin in Mayo'

there is and has been a bubble in Oz and it feels eerily like 2006 in Ireland - the last surge was the pump of the First Home Buyers grant increase (now gone back) with a huge number surging into the market...everything would have happened sooner except for the extraordinary stimulus measures which resulted in more people being sucked in...

The recent raft of rate rises has started a ball rolling that will be very hard to stimulate out of - couple that with the housing buble in China and Australia is on its way into a perfect storm all of its own...the same "Australia is different", there is a housing shortage (not backed up by proper non VI reports), immigrants will keep coming etc was all being spouted in Ireland not too long ago - by 2013 they will realise that they werent so different after all in Australia

Sorry - should have stuck to my own advice and kept it to the pin

ballooba

mandrake04 wrote: »

Yeah thats what I was thinking myself, but my GF father has lived in Sydney for 30 years and he reckons that as long as you are careful with what area you decide to buy into you cant really lose.

That's what they said in Ireland too. 4 years ago is not a long time, remember what they said here then.

mandrake04 wrote: »

I really don't think there will be housing bubble anything like Dublin or Ireland, there is a major shortage of housing in Sydney.

I don't believe there is a housing shortage in Sydney. There are no tent cities. There's plenty of rental supply. There are plenty of people who bought houses/units during the FHB boost that do not need them yet. All signs are pointing to a crash/crashes in Australia.

Zambia

m@cc@ wrote: »

Because not all Irish people are from Dublin.

Yes some want to be ...

Zambia

FreeAnd.. wrote: »

there is and has been a bubble in Oz and it feels eerily like 2006 in Ireland - the last surge was the pump of the First Home Buyers grant increase (now gone back) with a huge number surging into the market...everything would have happened sooner except for the extraordinary stimulus measures which resulted in more people being sucked in...

True this did not help the true value of houses, but it was a fair smack of free money I took it.

FreeAnd.. wrote: »

The recent raft of rate rises has started a ball rolling that will be very hard to stimulate out of - couple that with the housing buble in China and Australia is on its way into a perfect storm all of its own...

Those rate rises will cap things, I have a mortgage and each one .25 costs me a slab a month.

FreeAnd.. wrote: »

the same "Australia is different", there is a housing shortage (not backed up by proper non VI reports), immigrants will keep coming etc was all being spouted in Ireland not too long ago - by 2013 they will realise that they werent so different after all in Australia

Yes but here immigrants will keep coming in, unless there by boat if in power the Liberals plan to machine gun them in indonesian waters in 2011.

On a serious note comparissons in property between ireland and australia are very hard America might be a better case.

I personnally believe with the rate rises property will fall but not on any scale to ireland.

FreeAnd.. wrote: »

Sorry - should have stuck to my own advice and kept it to the pin

Do the pin readers care about the aus property market?

mandrake04

Really housing bubble or not everyone has to pay to live somewhere.

I am only buying one house to live in not 6 investment properties to rent out, At the moment I am paying $1600 a month in rent where I can buy a place for $2000 month cant really see that changing in the near future Like Zambia says buy within your means and it shouldn't be a problem.

As of Tuesday the interest rate has only got back to what would be classed as 'Normal' rates, anyone who bought in the last 5 years and strapped themselves up with a home loan without factoring in an extra 2% is going be in trouble.

FreeAnd..

Zambia232 wrote: »

...

Do the pin readers care about the aus property market?

Pin readers care about all markets (especially ones they have been part of)

I agree that Australia will be no where near as bad as Ireland - to be honest it will be hard for anyone to be near as bad as Ireland but when the dust settles in a decade or so anyone who over stretched in Australia and believed the hype and rhetoric will be burned just as they have been in ireland (maybe not as badly but burned all the same)

All the talk in Australia is exactly the talk in ireland in 06/07/08 and was the talk in America before that, and the UK - they are all different but the only real difference is timing - Australia would have been matched up with everyone else has the FHBG not been increased and the bubble actively promoted - the dependance on China is staggering too and the exposure of ordinary people to property is immense

Still though, they may be the first country ever to escape a bubble/bust - not very likely and as with Ireland people will still be debating over whether there is a bubble for a number of years after it actually burst

mandrake04

Also as for housing shortages anytime I went to an open house for rental property there would always be about 30 people show up for the viewing, not 3 or 4... but 30. But then again it all depends on where you live 25K from the city would be in bigger demand than 60KM from the city.

FreeAnd..

mandrake04 wrote: »

Also as for housing shortages anytime I went to an open house for rental property there would always be about 30 people show up for the viewing, not 3 or 4... but 30. But then again it all depends on where you live 25K from the city would be in bigger demand than 60KM from the city.

was it not the same in dublin late 2006 - with rents rising mom also? now they can't give them away - but good locations will always attract interest

hussey

Sydney has a population of 4.4million people
which is nearly the size of Ireland

If you want cheap living then you can move west with a long commute, You can rent houses 1-2hours away for around $200 a week,

so if most people are living inner city, then you can't really complain about rent.

I find Sydney a lot cheaper for food and drink (eating out)
My local thai in newtown is 11.50 for a main & free BYO, and food is delish.

I can get a good quality steak and chips for $10 on monday & tuesday (prob more if I look around) a

My local has pints of Bulmers for 6.20(I think)

But saying that I find supermarkets a lot more pricey for bread, milk etc etc

Cars
I paid $254 tax for a 1.6Litre car for a year
according to here it is $650 (445euro)

My CTP + 3rd party insurance was $809 (550euro) , I was quoted 950euro

petrol again due to tax it is higher in Ireland.

Houses are probably cheaper now in Ireland, but then again it just had a massive crash, so no surprises

Wages in my line of work were higher in Ireland a few years ago, but now I am earning about 25% more than avg in Ireland.

But as I mentioned in the First post, if anyone is expecting Sydney to be cheap then they should move away from the inner city and head west, you'll notice a huge difference.

amybabes

i have to agree with ballooba, i think its cheaper to live here for most things, and know i'm far better off here than at home.

Things i find cheaper: rent, groceries, eating out, holidays (going to cairns next week for 4 nights for $450 each incl. flights and a 4 star hotel)

Don't find any real difference in clothes prices or medical expenses (i never had a medical card or the likes at home so always had to pay E50 a time for the doctor, prob actually is a bit cheaper here!)

I got a great deal on a used toyota rav 4, 1997 model but had to stretch to just over 3,700...... anything we saw for around the 2,500 grand mark (our original budget) you wouldn't pay more than a couple of hundred at home for (and you'd be taking it off someones hands!) so found the little bit extra got us tonnes more value.

I'm from the south east at home, so no gumtree for my nearest town so i love using it here......furnished our whole apartment from ebay and gumtree....got like new couches for 100 on gumtree.....can't beat it!

amybabes

sorry - forgot to add, the worst thing is parking fines etc....$200 fine for what would be a E40 fine at home, or something you wouldn't be fined for (not having a parked car facing a certain direction)!

ballooba

Zambia232 wrote: »

True this did not help the true value of houses, but it was a fair smack of free money I took it.

For the developers. The developers merely increased the asking price of the units by the amount of the boost or more. If everyone in the market is getting it then it's of no advantage. The only way a buyer could have benefited was by buying at a pre-boost price.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Those rate rises will cap things, I have a mortgage and each one .25 costs me a slab a month.

Zambia232 wrote: »

I personnally believe with the rate rises property will fall but not on any scale to ireland.

Cap things? Soft landing? Ireland/USA/Japan/Sweden/Korea/Spain/Portugal were all promised a soft landing.

The only force maintaining capital values is the promise of capital appreciation. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Deflation causes buyers to postpone their purchases. Australia has already brought forward years of demand with the boost. They could be left with a huge vacuum of buyers, much like Ireland has.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Yes but here immigrants will keep coming in, unless there by boat if in power the Liberals plan to machine gun them in indonesian waters in 2011.

Will they buy houses though? Housing stock in Australia is hugely underutilised with roughly a third of houses barely occupied AFAIK. Not to mention the number of empties.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Do the pin readers care about the aus property market?

Yes, for two reasons. Even if we don't plan on settling down in Australia long term, this is a matter of interest for anymore who pays attention to current affairs.

ballooba

mandrake04 wrote: »

Really housing bubble or not everyone has to pay to live somewhere.

There's a vast gulf between needing to live somewhere and needing to buy. As I mentioned above, there are no tent cities. There is plenty of supply.

mandrake04 wrote: »

I am only buying one house to live in not 6 investment properties to rent out, At the moment I am paying $1600 a month in rent where I can buy a place for $2000 month cant really see that changing in the near future Like Zambia says buy within your means and it shouldn't be a problem.

Frankly, that is impossible in the current climate unless you are comparing apples to oranges. The $2000 unit cannot be comparable to the $1600 dollar unit. If it is then tell it would be the best investment in Australia right now.

mandrake04 wrote: »

As of Tuesday the interest rate has only got back to what would be classed as 'Normal' rates, anyone who bought in the last 5 years and strapped themselves up with a home loan without factoring in an extra 2% is going be in trouble.

They're approaching normal, but I'm not sure that rates are at average levels if you look over a thirty year period. Far from it.

ballooba

mandrake04 wrote: »

Also as for housing shortages anytime I went to an open house for rental property there would always be about 30 people show up for the viewing, not 3 or 4... but 30. But then again it all depends on where you live 25K from the city would be in bigger demand than 60KM from the city.

I've never had a problem competing in the Sydney rental market. In fact some very good areas have been seriously depressed since the GFC.

mandrake04

ballooba wrote: »

Frankly, that is impossible in the current climate unless you are comparing apples to oranges. The $2000 unit cannot be comparable to the $1600 dollar unit. If it is then tell it would be the best investment in Australia right now.

Why would you think that?

I am living in a 3 BR Unit $410 per week ($1640) its probably valued at about $450K.

Thinking of buying a 2 BR Townhouse for $460k, Deposit of $80K plus $7K FHOG.

$370K home loan payments quote about $2000 a month.

(Plus Strata, water and rates.)


Hardly Rocket science

Zambia

ballooba wrote: »

For the developers. The developers merely increased the asking price of the units by the amount of the boost or more. If everyone in the market is getting it then it's of no advantage. The only way a buyer could have benefited was by buying at a pre-boost price.

true , in that case it was simialar to the year ireland dropped stamp and all propertys affected jumped in price by stamp value.

ballooba wrote: »

Cap things? Soft landing? Ireland/USA/Japan/Sweden/Korea/Spain/Portugal were all promised a soft landing.

The only force maintaining capital values is the promise of capital appreciation. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Deflation causes buyers to postpone their purchases. Australia has already brought forward years of demand with the boost. They could be left with a huge vacuum of buyers, much like Ireland has.

You see I would disagree while every man and his dog was buying houses in ireland for CA that is not the case here. People here seem to want to buy most stock to live in.

ballooba wrote: »

Yes, for two reasons. Even if we don't plan on settling down in Australia long term, this is a matter of interest for anymore who pays attention to current affairs.

In relation to buying a house life is what happens when your making plans. Sometimes we just have to get on with life and get in the ring. Spent enough time waiting to migrate just to go sit on my hands and wait to buy a house...