"Sydney is expensive"....ah shurrup!

AngryHippie

Chickus wrote: »

It made Paris (let alone dublin) seem cheap with regards to some things.

ah come one now, lets not get carried away

Chickus wrote: »

We were quoted 40 euros+ for a bed in a dorm a few months ago.

Around Christmas or new years by any chance ?
A little point about Australia, prices are very much affected by demand, and if there is a trend, the businesses jack up their prices to get the most out of it, so yes, Petrol is more expensive at the weekends, accomadaton is more expensive during peak holiday season, and in tourist traps like Airlie, you will get screwed for water and chocolate and soft drinks and stuff.

Chickus wrote: »

Go into 7 eleven to buy a can of coke and you get charged $2.50+, a bar of chocolate the same or higher. So you're talking the bones of 5 euros for a can of coke and a bar of chocolate.
Now i know you can get it cheaper in the supermarkets, but going to coles or woolies is not always an option. Bottles of water at 3 dollars is also a joke. The tourist attractions also were pretty pricey for what they were. Public transport was expensive also, 3 dollars plus to get you any sort of distance.

7 eleven is one of the most expensive chains, they charge more because they are open later, this comparing coles to 7 eleven is like comparing tesco's to spar on college green, they are open late and have limited store space,so they charge more for everything, why you expect this to be otherwise is naivety rather than Australia being out to get your money.

Chickus wrote: »

Also the supermarkets didn't appear to be that cheap for a lot of things. A loaf of bread was nearly 4 dollars.

Again, it depends on when and where you shop, the convenience is at your expense, shop for meat at the weekends, you'll save a bundle, buy bread in the afternoons, look out for 2 for ones, Bread can usually be bought at 2 loaves for $5 in the supermarket, whoops I don't need 2 so I'll get one for 3.85, is that because its expensive or because you have an expensive lifestyle. I sick to death of people mis-representing the expense of living while refusing to actually look for a cheaper way to get the same things.

Chickus wrote: »

Petrol is a bit cheaper than home but you need to use a lot more of it as distances are much bigger than home. Also their speeding fines are crazy expensive (200 dollars!) It was also majorly hot when we were there so we needed the air con on and that drinks fuel. But it's definatly going to kill their tourist industry. We got quoted 45 dollars one night for a small camper site in a campsite. I'm sure it's different if you're working and earning ozzie dollars.It was the least value for money place I've ever visited.

It is very very different, the currency is screwing Europeans at the moment, but If you are earning over here, its good value
the trick to keeping Australia cheap is to look at how the Aussies do it, and do likewise, they get where they are going for the weekend on Thursday or Friday, and stay for the expensive petrol days, they hit the bottle-o instead of drinking a scatter of pots of beer in a dingy bar.
And on the quality of the produce, sure it mightn't be too hectic in some regards, but as far as the quality of fresh fish, fruit veg and meat are concerned, I think you might be talking out of your ar$e...:rolleyes:

Chickus

Angryhippie no need to be a prick about it I wasn't attacking you.

I merely posted to point out that from a tourist perspective Australia is incredibly expensive. It was to highlight the point that it will have a massive impact on the countries tourist industry.

Here are replies to some of your points:

Originally Posted by Chickus
It made Paris (let alone dublin) seem cheap with regards to some things.

I still maintain this. Here are a number of points to back up this arguement:

1. Hostels: Check it out on hostel world, there's not a massive difference between the price of hostels in Sydney and in Paris. The quality of hostels (in my experience) was also better in Paris than in Sydney. Australia seemed to have an awful lot of grotty hostels. Also in Paris the norm seemed to be to include wifi in your stay, most places in Sydney charged you extra for wifi (4/5 dollars an hour oftentimes).

2. Tourist Attractions: Lets take two world famous Sydney tourist attractions and two world famous Paris tourist attractions and compare prices.

Paris - Eiffel tower (13 euro for the most expensive admission) and the Louvre (9 euro)

http://goparis.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=goparis&cdn=travel&tm=13&f=10&su=p284.9.336.ip_p531.51.336.ip_&tt=11&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.tour-eiffel.fr/teiffel/uk/pratique/acces/page/tarifs.html

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/pratique/tarifs.jsp?bmLocale=en

Sydney - Opera House (35 dollars / 25 euro)and the Sydney Tower (25 dollars / 17 euro)

http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/whatson/the_essential_tour_2010.aspx

http://sydneytower.myfun.com.au/The-Tower/Observation-Deck.htm


3. Public transport:

Paris metro for a standard ticket is 1.60E.

http://www.paristoolkit.com/briefing/paris_metro.htm

I can't remember how much a standard bus ticket was in Sydney but it was a fair bit more than than from what I can remember.

Around Christmas or new years by any chance ?
A little point about Australia, prices are very much affected by demand, and if there is a trend, the businesses jack up their prices to get the most out of it, so yes, Petrol is more expensive at the weekends, accomadaton is more expensive during peak holiday season, and in tourist traps like Airlie, you will get screwed for water and chocolate and soft drinks and stuff.

We were there the days leading up to Australia day. But take a look on hostelworld.com, the hostels aren't exactly cheap now. I understand how supply and demand works (but thanks for the lesson), but you're arguement about the petrol only backs up my point about the place being expensive. Sometimes buying petrol (especially for a tourist) on a weekend is unavoidable.

7 eleven is one of the most expensive chains, they charge more because they are open later, this comparing coles to 7 eleven is like comparing tesco's to spar on college green, they are open late and have limited store space,so they charge more for everything, why you expect this to be otherwise is naivety rather than Australia being out to get your money.

I totally understand that 7 eleven is not going to be cheaper than coles. The same way I don't expect spar to be cheaper than dunnes. But instead compare the price (to use my example again) of a can of coke, a twix and a bottle of water in spar (Dublin) compared with 7 eleven (Sydney). The cost of these products in Australia outside of the big supermarkets (which again are not always an option for a tourist) are crazy expensive.

Again, it depends on when and where you shop, the convenience is at your expense, shop for meat at the weekends, you'll save a bundle, buy bread in the afternoons, look out for 2 for ones, Bread can usually be bought at 2 loaves for $5 in the supermarket, whoops I don't need 2 so I'll get one for 3.85, is that because its expensive or because you have an expensive lifestyle. I sick to death of people mis-representing the expense of living while refusing to actually look for a cheaper way to get the same things.

Again for a tourist, just buying meat at the weekends or buying bread in the afternoons is probably not always going be an option. Again in Dublin, you don't have to be selective (as much) about when you buy bread and meat so it doesn't cost you a fortune. Buying one one loaf of bread at a time is having an expensive life style? haha

It is very very different, the currency is screwing Europeans at the moment, but If you are earning over here, its good value
the trick to keeping Australia cheap is to look at how the Aussies do it, and do likewise, they get where they are going for the weekend on Thursday or Friday, and stay for the expensive petrol days, they hit the bottle-o instead of drinking a scatter of pots of beer in a dingy bar.
And on the quality of the produce, sure it mightn't be too hectic in some regards, but as far as the quality of fresh fish, fruit veg and meat are concerned, I think you might be talking out of your ar$e...

Regarding my comment about the quality of the fruit and veg, the stuff we bought in supermarkets in NZ generally seemed to be better quality compared with the produce for sale in Australian supermarkets. I'm sure you can buy equally as good produce but it seemed to be more difficult to find.

I agree the currency exchange has a massive part to play. But I don't think it's the full story from talking to people who were in oz a few years ago the price in dollars of a lot of things has jumped up also.

I just got the feeling a lot of ozzies (and moreworringly, Irish people living in Oz)have their head in the sand with regards to how expensive the place is for tourists and how having such a strong currency may affect them long term. As someone else said it's more than just being able to go abroad for cheaper on your holidays!

I got a sense that because oz had very limited exposure to the GFC that alot of ozzies think the economy is untouchable. The boom seems to be still very much on there and as someone else said it reminded them of being in Ireland a few years ago. China's growth will slow at some stage and wth it their need for Austarlia's mines and that demand seems to the driving force. I think many people (and i hope im wrong) are in for a dose of reality in the future.

jank

Chickus wrote: »

Angryhippie no need to be a prick about it I wasn't attacking you.

I merely posted to point out that from a tourist perspective Australia is incredibly expensive. It was to highlight the point that it will have a massive impact on the countries tourist industry.

Ah so from a tourists perspective rather than from a living perspective!!

You do know that there is a difference here. Regardless of where you are in the world as a tourist you are going to spend infinately more as a tourist rather than as a resident. It was easy to blow a grand in NZ in a couple days but as someone who has lived there I know that I can live on a fraction of that week by week.

Sydney IS cheaper than home and many other places around the world. It is NOT the cheapest by any means but touristy things are not cheap. Some things are very good value.

jank

On another point you need to compare like with like. For example the Sydney opera house admission contains a guided tour of the place while the Paris examples you cited do not. Guided tours are ALWAYS going to be more expensive than regular admission prices. Why not compare the Louvre which is an Art museum to I don’t know a Sydney Art Museum instead of some expensive gimmick like the Sydney Tower. An adult admission ticket to the NSW Museum of Art is $10...

Sure there are rip offs in Sydney such as the bridge climb. 200 odd bucks!!!! I don’t think so but then again did you ever go drinking or eating on champs elysees? Let’s just say a bottle of coke sounds like a great deal at $3!!

Oh I love Paris by the way but I have to interject some sense into this discussion

Chickus wrote: »

Regarding my comment about the quality of the fruit and veg, the stuff we bought in supermarkets in NZ generally seemed to be better quality compared with the produce for sale in Australian supermarkets. I'm sure you can buy equally as good produce but it seemed to be more difficult to find.
.

Much of a muchness tbh. The food in NZ is VERY good but it’s not all the different in Sydney. The fruit and veg and meat is of a pretty good standard everywhere.

I can tell you one thing though. The food in NZ is very expensive. Try live there and you will see what I am on about. You would spend a massive amount of your wages on food alone in NZ. OK I might be spending the same amount here in Sydney but as I am getting about 50% more pay for the exact same job in the exact same company. Naturally its cheaper for me in real terms. Surely you understand that.

Chickus wrote: »

I agree the currency exchange has a massive part to play. But I don't think it's the full story from talking to people who were in Oz a few years ago the price in dollars of a lot of things has jumped up also.

I just got the feeling a lot of ozzies (and moreworringly, Irish people living in Oz)have their head in the sand with regards to how expensive the place is for tourists and how having such a strong currency may affect them long term. As someone else said it's more than just being able to go abroad for cheaper on your holidays!.

Oh do explain as I am all ears.

Chickus wrote: »

I got a sense that because oz had very limited exposure to the GFC that alot of ozzies think the economy is untouchable. The boom seems to be still very much on there and as someone else said it reminded them of being in Ireland a few years ago. China's growth will slow at some stage and wth it their need for Austarlia's mines and that demand seems to the driving force. I think many people (and i hope im wrong) are in for a dose of reality in the future.

Like what? A reality like Ireland? Listen to me. I went home for the first time in almost 2 years last month and Ireland was just depressing. I wanted to come back to OZ after a week. Same ol $hit, nobody doing anything, everyone waiting for someone else to help them. Moan moan moan. Even if the worst happened to OZ (and in some extent I agree with you about a crash in the house prices here that will in turn effect the banks and so on, remember though Australia has commodities that are in demand and unless china starts mining the moon they have to be exported from OZ), OZ will NEVER have double digit unemployment and it will never be the rain soaked moan infested nation Ireland has become. Rather a crash here in OZ than at home, least people get on with it. Same can be said for NZ by the way.

Chickus

Why not compare the Louvre which is an Art museum to I don’t know a Sydney Art Museum instead of some expensive gimmick like the Sydney Tower. An adult admission ticket to the NSW Museum of Art is $10...

Youre comparing the Louvre to the NSW museum of art?

Like what? A reality like Ireland? Listen to me. I went home for the first time in almost 2 years last month and Ireland was just depressing. I wanted to come back to OZ after a week. Same ol $hit, nobody doing anything, everyone waiting for someone else to help them. Moan moan moan. Even if the worst happened to OZ (and in some extent I agree with you about a crash in the house prices here that will in turn effect the banks and so on, remember though Australia has commodities that are in demand and unless china starts mining the moon they have to be exported from OZ), OZ will NEVER have double digit unemployment and it will never be the rain soaked moan infested nation Ireland has become. Rather a crash here in OZ than at home, least people get on with it. Same can be said for NZ by the way.

Never say never. Of course double digit unemployment is possible at some stage in the future.

Ah so from a tourists perspective rather than from a living perspective!!

You do know that there is a difference here. Regardless of where you are in the world as a tourist you are going to spend infinately more as a tourist rather than as a resident. It was easy to blow a grand in NZ in a couple days but as someone who has lived there I know that I can live on a fraction of that week by week.

Yea from a the perspective of a tourist. Thats why I said "from a tourists perspective".

Same ol $hit, nobody doing anything, everyone waiting for someone else to help them.

I think this says more about the people you hang around with.


If australia was in Ireland's current position what would the ozzies do differently to the Irish to "get on with it"?

jank

Youre comparing the Louvre to the NSW museum of art?

No, I am comparing the price of an Art museum in Paris to an Art museum in Sydney.

Never say never. Of course double digit unemployment is possible at some stage in the future.

Can you point me to any economic analysis of this or is this just you making up stuff.

Yea from a the perspective of a tourist. Thats why I said "from a tourists perspective".

Funny cause the OP never mentions the word "tourist". Only you...

I think this says more about the people you hang around with.

Christ you don't know Irish people very well do you? There was actually 2 good news stories when I was at home. One girl I knew got shacked up with a doctor so shes set for life and the other story was about a friend who is after getting a job of a lifetime in....Germany. This is a guy who has 4 years teaching exp, a masters and a 1st class hons degree. No teaching jobs in Ireland. Others are planning to emigrate within the next year. There is NOTHING at home at the moment, maybe in 3 years or so but not now.

If australia was in Ireland's current position what would the ozzies do differently to the Irish to "get on with it"?

Well in the first instance they would elect a government that would proceed to con them into the property magic roundabout.... but NZ and OZ has still some of its frontier spirit and attitude. They don't want handouts, they just want an opportunity to give it a go. If times were tough I think as a nation they would cope much better with it an not let the new found wealth go to its head like Ireland up to 2 years ago.

E.g. when I was in NZ and the GFC was in full swing the government told may of its departments to work a 4 day week. They let many others go. That was it! No strikes, no months and months of talking and work to rule and pissing people off. They saw a problem and acted accordingly....
I think the biggest difference is that NZ and OZ actually rule their countries for the betterment of the public as a whole not some little special interests like the unions and developers.

I fully expect a crash in Australia within the next 3 years but it will nowhere be as bad as Ireland where we have essentially taken over by proxy by the ECB. Australia will cut its cloth to measure and get on with it, in Ireland they are still trying to figure out how to balance the books!!

Mellor

Chickus wrote: »

2. Tourist Attractions: Lets take two world famous Sydney tourist attractions and two world famous Paris tourist attractions and compare prices.

Paris - Eiffel tower (13 euro for the most expensive admission) and the Louvre (9 euro)

Sydney - Opera House (35 dollars / 25 euro)and the Sydney Tower (25 dollars / 17 euro)

http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/whatson/the_essential_tour_2010.aspx

http://sydneytower.myfun.com.au/The-Tower/Observation-Deck.htm

Are you joking. You aren't even comparing remotely similar items. And you aren't even quoting the right prices.

The Lourve is a gallery, a great one at that. Full admission is euro 14. The 9euro (9.50 to be exact) doesn't include entrance to the exhibition hall.

The NSW Art Gallery (closest to the Louvre, although not the same league i'll admit) is free. I see SMoMA was quoted above, its not the same.

The Opera House is well, exactly that. The $35 quoted is for a guided tour, not simple access. You could get access plus a show for $35 also (no tour obv). The Paris opera house is much more expensive.

Eiffel tower and SkyTower are similar. Admission is e13 and e15-17 based on exchange rate. So not a whole lot there.

3. Public transport:

Paris metro for a standard ticket is 1.60E.

I can't remember how much a standard bus ticket was in Sydney but it was a fair bit more than than from what I can remember.
A standard bus ticket is $2, increases as you go further. My buses cost me $16 a week to and from work everyday.

Rail is more expensive in Sydney, purely because it is far more spread out than Paris which is very compact. Which is reasonable I hope you'll agree.

I totally understand that 7 eleven is not going to be cheaper than coles. The same way I don't expect spar to be cheaper than dunnes. But instead compare the price (to use my example again) of a can of coke, a twix and a bottle of water in spar (Dublin) compared with 7 eleven (Sydney).

I'm not sure about this one.
A 7/11 in sydney might cost $9 or less for the above. ($2.5+$2.5+$3)
In a spar in dublin, i'd guess 5 euro, at least in the city.

Again for a tourist, just buying meat at the weekends or buying bread in the afternoons is probably not always going be an option. Again in Dublin, you don't have to be selective (as much) about when you buy bread and meat so it doesn't cost you a fortune. Buying one one loaf of bread at a time is having an expensive life style? haha

Most tourist eat out.

Fast food is way way cheaper in Sydney compared to dublin.
Pub food is cheaper. $10-$15 for a range of meals.
Restaurants vary in both I imagine.



My point is that you can compare anything are of cost of living to prove a point.
And just to prove i'm not being biased. Fresh fruit and veg in aus is more expensive, due to the fact it has further to come than in ireland. I find the quality the same.

Coileach dearg

Mellor wrote: »

And just to prove i'm not being biased. Fresh fruit and veg in aus is more expensive, due to the fact it has further to come than in ireland. I find the quality the same.

What? Most fresh fruit and veg you get out here is grown out here, how would it have further to travel?
I find the quality and choice of fruit and veg out here to be miles ahead of what we get in Ireland. Before I came out here a salad was a head of iceberg lettuce, boiled egg, tomato, onion and a bit of cheese.

Mellor

I'm not talking about exotics. Which are cheaper here. As even if imported its only fiji or NZ.

I'm talking about basic vegs,
potatoes, cabbage, onions, carrots, broccoli, cauliflour, sprouts etc
In ireland these are all home grown, They only have to travel a short enough distance to the supermarket. In dublin, most of the veg come from farms in dublin/kildare/meath region.

In australia, due to the scale of the place and the scale of farms, they come from further away. It doesn't matter if their spuds are grown here, they travel miles to get to the cities.

You'd expect fruit to be better priced here as less fruit is grown in ireland.
But irish supermarkets less fruit like bananas at a loss. Strawberries are homegrown in summer, and about the same price as here.
Oz is cheaper for exotics as I said, pineapple, mango etc.