You are not a f*cking DJ. You’re an overpaid, untalented, cake-throwing c*nt.

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

Ahh i see your twisted logic,

Dont tax the high earners because they might leave.

Tax the low income earners & reduce welfare etc because they cant do anything to change that.

Erm, it's not twisted logic. It's a bit of a simplification but it's largely true unfortunately.
Have you ever seen the breakdown of where tax revenue in this country comes from?
It's actually the minority that pays the large majority of the costs to run this country.
Personally, as you well know, I'm not a fan of a system that allows that inequality to be created, but it is what it is and since a workers' revolt is off the cards, I'm afraid the only way to keep this ship afloat is pandering to the desires of the higher earners in this country.

It's a huge problem we're going to have to deal with over the next few years, but the fact of the matter is, the last thing any government wants is a mass exodus of the people who pay the most into the state coffers.

And of course they're going to hit the poor and helpless. Why? Because they can. They don't not hit the rich because they like them or feel guilty. It's simple business. In the tax sphere, the rich contribute more, so the government protect them.
You might try to rebut that point by calling me a right-winger, but that's simply an ad hominem fallacy.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

Completely agree with you here Is Mise, but I genuinely think most people are greedy to their core. It's one of our fundamental differences I think.
The only reason I wouldn't emigrate in the same situation is the fact that I actually like it here (despite everything). If I were in a high earning job (as jonny recommended I do a while ago ) and was offered the same job for more money in a nicer climate etc., the only reason I wouldn't go would be if I decided I liked it here enough to not want to leave. Nothing to do with fellow countrymen etc.

Concern for your fellow country men?
The idea of the nation state and a national identity is very new and imo largely fictional.
I don't have much in common with a farmer in Kerry or a factory worker in Clondalkin. To think that we share a common interest or purpose under the umbrella of our national identity is bullsh1t.

That would be incorrect as i see it like this, we are all interlinked & contributing into the economy within this country & have regardless of how you got to the point you are at now you are only there also because of the generations that preceeded you. Dont get me wrong i am for a worldwide change in order to create a better quality of life for the most needy but to say it is bullsh.it is naive, you begin with your household that you are completley interlinked with each other, then your local community being interlinked by money circulating in the local economy, then your country etc etc. we do have a connection with our fellow country men & women even if it is indirect & actually do owe our seniors who stayed here & worked when the sh.it hit the fan not to now leave them to the mercy of a corrupt political & financial class.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

Erm, it's not twisted logic. It's a bit of a simplification but it's largely true unfortunately.
Have you ever seen the breakdown of where tax revenue in this country comes from?
It's actually the minority that pays the large majority of the costs to run this country.
Personally, as you well know, I'm not a fan of a system that allows that inequality to be created, but it is what it is and since a workers' revolt is off the cards, I'm afraid the only way to keep this ship afloat is pandering to the desires of the higher earners in this country.

It's a huge problem we're going to have to deal with over the next few years, but the fact of the matter is, the last thing any government wants is a mass exodus of the people who pay the most into the state coffers.

And of course they're going to hit the poor and helpless. Why? Because they can. They don't not hit the rich because they like them or feel guilty. It's simple business. In the tax sphere, the rich contribute more, so the government protect them.
You might try to rebut that point by calling me a right-winger, but that's simply an ad hominem fallacy.

Ok then, you just capitulate to the right wing although you are left wing.

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

That would be incorrect as i see it like this, we are all interlinked & contributing into the economy within this country & have regardless of how you got to the point you are at now you are only there also because of the generations that preceeded you. Dont get me wrong i am for a worldwide change in order to create a better quality of life for the most needy but to say it is bullsh.it is naive, you begin with your household that you are completley interlinked with each other, then your local community being interlinked by money circulating in the local economy, then your country etc etc. we do have a connection with our fellow country men & women even if it is indirect & actually do owe our seniors who stayed here & worked when the sh.it hit the fan not to now leave them to the mercy of a corrupt political & financial class.

It was our seniors that wrecklessly borrowed (remember how high consumer debt is?Huge part of the problem I'm sure you'll agree) and voted the cúnts into office over and over and over again.
I know I'm a good bit younger than a few here but when I finished college and entered the real world the Ireland that is collapsing had been completed by the will of the people.
I had no part to play in it, and I'm fcuked if I'm ever going to shoulder the blame/share the pain when I had nothing to do with it.

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

Ok then, you just capitulate to the right wing although you are left wing.

would you not agree that right wing/left wing dichotomies are useless at this point?
Seriously?

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

Ok then, you just capitulate to the right wing although you are left wing.

Are you going to offer a rebuttal then of my actual point?

jtsuited

jtsuited wrote: »

Completely agree with you here Is Mise, but I genuinely think most people are greedy to their core. It's one of our fundamental differences I think.
The only reason I wouldn't emigrate in the same situation is the fact that I actually like it here (despite everything). If I were in a high earning job (as jonny recommended I do a while ago ) and was offered the same job for more money in a nicer climate etc., the only reason I wouldn't go would be if I decided I liked it here enough to not want to leave. Nothing to do with fellow countrymen etc.

Concern for your fellow country men?
The idea of the nation state and a national identity is very new and imo largely fictional.
I don't have much in common with a farmer in Kerry or a factory worker in Clondalkin. To think that we share a common interest or purpose under the umbrella of our national identity is bullsh1t.

agree with what you are saying JT apart from the common interest part but unfortunately not everyone will see it that way with the amount of lying going on, how many private sector tax payers on average industrial wage does it take to replace one person on circa 120k.... in a country where jobs are not being created?! Unless these cnuts are replaced with some sort of decent leadership mobile high earners will unfortunately leave, the first thing I would attempt to try and stop a ship sinking would be to try and plug up the holes before jumping off.. were now 3/4 years into this and i aint seen much of an attempt to do so

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

It was our seniors that wrecklessly borrowed (remember how high consumer debt is?Huge part of the problem I'm sure you'll agree) and voted the cúnts into office over and over and over again.
I know I'm a good bit younger than a few here but when I finished college and entered the real world the Ireland that is collapsing had been completed by the will of the people.
I had no part to play in it, and I'm fcuked if I'm ever going to shoulder the blame/share the pain when I had nothing to do with it.

Jesus this is confusing, at what point did i or anyone who are of left wing politics suggest that you or any of us that didnt borrow recklessly,

'Shoulder the balme/Share the pain'

Thats the entire point, the very people that did create all of this we are fearful to upset by getting them to,

'Shoulder the balme/Share the pain'

In fear of them leaving the country!

The entire system of passing the mess onto the people at the bottom who didnt create this because of fear of the rich leaving who did create this has to end.

BaZmO*

I get what Mise is saying in terms of, we've got to look after each other, community is important, etc., etc., but at the end of the day you need to look after your own interests. That doesn't mean you have to disregard everybody else while in pursuit of your own gains, but you certainly need to be aware that it's a dog eat dog world (for rightly or wrongly) and you need to do what's best for you and your family first and foremost.

jtsuited

Deleted User wrote: »

agree with what you are saying JT apart from the common interest part but unfortunately not everyone will see it that way with the amount of lying going on, how many private sector tax payers on average industrial wage does it take to replace one person on circa 120k..

exactly!!!!!! And the worst thing is, if you even mention that fact you get called a right winger (as in this thread) defending the interests of the wealthy elite etc.

In the same way that people like Jim Corr delegitimise a lot of fairly valid leftist arguments, genuine cúnts like Glenn Beck and the rest of the right wing nutbags delegitimise a lot perfectly valid libertarian arguments.

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

The entire system of passing the mess onto the people at the bottom who didnt create this because of fear of the rich leaving who did create this has to end.

And if it does end, what happens?
Rich people jump ship, the country ends up far far far worse off, but it's ok because Joe Soap wasn't hit that hard, although he is now gathering sticks to heat his run-down shack of a home.

Oh and the people at the bottom did create this. By voting (or not voting at all in many cases) in politicians who were running a neoliberal agenda time and time and time again.

Is mise le key

If we went back over this thread we would unearth a wealth of posts by all of us enough to decalre where we all stand on politics, the same trend is unfolding amongst the posters here that has already in the past.

Now i need to do some work in order to contribute to my country & help you all out a little bit.

jtsuited wrote:

exactly!!!!!! And the worst thing is, if you even mention that fact you get called a right winger (as in this thread) defending the interests of the wealthy elite etc.
In the same way that people like Jim Corr delegitimise a lot of fairly valid leftist arguments, genuine cúnts like Glenn Beck and the rest of the right wing nutbags delegitimise a lot perfectly valid libertarian arguments.

I subsequently retracted that JT & said you capitulate to the right, i know your a revolutionary at heart, just not in practice:D

EDIT: And what the fu.ck has jim corr got to do with what we are discussing?

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

And if it does end, what happens?
Rich people jump ship, the country ends up far far far worse off, but it's ok because Joe Soap wasn't hit that hard, although he is now gathering sticks to heat his run-down shack of a home.

.

Ahh come on now jeff, i thought more of you to resort to childish scare tactic posts,

jtsuited wrote: »

although he is now gathering sticks to heat his run-down shack of a home.

Android 666

jtsuited wrote: »

Concern for your fellow country men?
The idea of the nation state and a national identity is very new and imo largely fictional.

I think we have a really odd national identity that makes us all a bit fooked up as a nation. We are a mainly Catholic country that doesn't share any of the traits of other mainly catholic countries in Europe except for maybe somewhere like Poland. Look at Italy and France and other countries with a strong catholic presence. Flamboyant with a love of fashion - very focused on appearance. The opposite being the simplicity of the Protestant ethic in the Scandinavian countries as seen in their design outlook. England is a bit of an odd fish in so far as its a Protestant country but the Anglican country still held on a bit to the pageantry of Catholicism except substituting the monarch over the pope. All this is gross generalisations remember so easy enough to pick holes in.

So we have a country that is controlled by our bigger neighbour and our principle religion is outlawed. We lose to ability to celebrate our religion publicly and displays of religious ostentatiousness are banished from our psyche, leaving with the notion that no matter how sh¡te our lives are here we'll get our rewards in heaven. Everybody is expected to follow the same path in terms of devotion and we become a nation that makes no meaningful attempt to control our own destiny or evolve our culture. We all dress sh¡t, we eat sh¡t and pray... that's what as a nation we become. Kicking up a fuss or standing out becomes frowned upon as it can lead to trouble from the English authorities.

The notion of a proper Irish state starts to really take hold in the nineteenth century with calls for Home Rule and the founding of the GAA. The GAA is important in terms of establishing an Irish identity. The problem is that the only culture that has really evolved in this country has been given to us by the English - our buildings, painting, music etc. To establish our own culture we have to go back to year dot. So in the twentieth century after the declaration of independence, the only culture we have to call our own hasn't really evolved in 800 years. It gives us a uniquely strong traditional culture, stronger than any other in Europe but leaves us incapable of creating a really modern Ireland. The problem we have with our arts is the same we have with nearly every other aspect of our thinking in this country.

We come a country that hides behind certain simplistic signifiers but doesn't really scratch beneath the surface to actually what makes us a nation and do we all really need to subscribe to some notion of collective Irishness.

A bit rambling and don't have a lot of time to put it together meaningfully as I better get back to work. Oh, motivation where are you?

jtsuited

but see my point is, that this whole debate gets skewed by 'points of view' as opposed to logic. Politics done based on competing populist ideologies gets us nowhere because we all 'agree to disagree due to our differing political perspectives' at the end, and nothing gets done.
Government policy should be run in the interest and good of the people as a whole. Ironically, democracy fails in so many ways to do this, but gives everyone (including the clinically ignorant) their say.
I know I always joke about how democracy doesn't work when Tiesto wins some DJ poll around here, but as I get older I'm really starting to see the truth in the joke.

I suppose one of the best analogies is getting on an aeroplane. We don't vote on the shape of the wings, or who should fly the plane, because as a group, we haven't a feckin notion.

Is mise le key

Android 666 wrote: »

A bit rambling and don't have a lot of time to put it together meaningfully as I better get back to work. Oh, motivation where are you?

I also really have to get back to work here,

I agree with you, we do not have a a cultured history llike other nations but that is exactly it,

We have a heritage of being supressed & needing to band together to preserve what identity we do have, this is where we are most strong & can relate to each other, our willingness to fight & support our family, neighbours, people & others that are in strife (Except jeff )

jtsuited

Android 666 wrote: »

I think we have a really odd national identity that makes us all a bit fooked up as a nation. We are a mainly Catholic country that doesn't share any of the traits of other mainly catholic countries in Europe except for maybe somewhere like Poland. Look at Italy and France and other countries with a strong catholic presence. Flamboyant with a love of fashion - very focused on appearance. The opposite being the simplicity of the Protestant ethic in the Scandinavian countries as seen in their design outlook. England is a bit of an odd fish in so far as its a Protestant country but the Anglican country still held on a bit to the pageantry of Catholicism except substituting the monarch over the pope. All this is gross generalisations remember so easy enough to pick holes in.

So we have a country that is controlled by our bigger neighbour and our principle religion is outlawed. We lose to ability to celebrate our religion publicly and displays of religious ostentatiousness are banished from our psyche, leaving with the notion that no matter how sh¡te our lives are here we'll get our rewards in heaven. Everybody is expected to follow the same path in terms of devotion and we become a nation that makes no meaningful attempt to control our own destiny or evolve our culture. We all dress sh¡t, we eat sh¡t and pray... that's what as a nation we become. Kicking up a fuss or standing out becomes frowned upon as it can lead to trouble from the English authorities.

The notion of a proper Irish state starts to really take hold in the nineteenth century with calls for Home Rule and the founding of the GAA. The GAA is important in terms of establishing an Irish identity. The problem is that the only culture that has really evolved in this country has been given to us by the English - our buildings, painting, music etc. To establish our own culture we have to go back to year dot. So in the twentieth century after the declaration of independence, the only culture we have to call our own hasn't really evolved in 800 years. It gives us a uniquely strong traditional culture, stronger than any other in Europe but leaves us incapable of creating a really modern Ireland. The problem we have with our arts is the same we have with nearly every other aspect of our thinking in this country.

We come a country that hides behind certain simplistic signifiers but doesn't really scratch beneath the surface to actually what makes us a nation and do we all really need to subscribe to some notion of collective Irishness.

A bit rambling and don't have a lot of time to put it together meaningfully as I better get back to work. Oh, motivation where are you?

I'm with you on this. I have a major issue with 'traditional' music in this country and its ties with concepts of Irishness. It was pretty much all born out of the 19th century movement you talk about, and along with the Irish language is completely irrelevant in terms of what an Irish identity might be.

Genetically speaking, we're almost identical to the Scandinavians (check out their alcoholism problems and it's eerie mirroring of ours) and tbh I don't think Catholicism ever suited us.

One thing that really gets me in this country is our hypocritical Nationalism. One example.......
Arthur's day came along and of course my local pub republican 'intellectual' was moaning about it being a dirty marketing trick to put more profits into the hands of an English multinational (Diageo).
When I pointed out that Arthur Guinness himself was a vehement Unionist Protestant who was one of the Anglo-Irish landowning class so it's oddly fitting that we continue to send our money to those that don't need it and who aren't us, he got slightly miffed.

And it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.....we really aren't that great. The only thing we've ever been good at is Literature but having learnt about many of the great Irish writers, you learn that, apart from Joyce and maybe a few others, our great writers tended to be protestant Anglo-Irish types that were the very type we sought to rid this country of for years.

Is mise le key

Seems a good place to post the pledge of the united irish men of 1798 in keeping with the context of the last three posts,

"We have agreed to form an association to be called "The Society of United Irishmen", and we do pledge ourselves to our country, and mutually to each other, that we will steadily support and endeavour, by all due means, to carry into effect the following resolutions:

FIRST RESOLVED -- That the weight of English influence on the Government of this country is so great as to require a cordial union among all the people of Ireland, to maintain that balance which is essential to the preservation of our liberties and the extension of our commerce. SECOND -- That the sole constituitional mode by which this influence can be opposed is by a complete and radical reform of the representation of the people in Parliament. THIRD -- That no reform is practicable, efficacious, or just, which shall not include Irishmen of every religious persausion. Satisfied, as we are, that the intestine divisions among Irishmen have too often given encouragement and impunity to profligate, audacious and corrupt administrations, in measure which, but for these divisions, they durst not have attempted, we submit our resolutions to the nation as the basis of our political faith. We have gone to what we conceive to be the root of the evil. We have stated what we conceive to be the remedy. With a Parliament thus reformed, everything is easy; without it, nothing can be done. And we do call on, and most earnestly exhort, our countrymen in general to follow our example, and to form similar societies in every quarter of the kingdom for the promotion of constituitional knowledge, the abolition of bigotry in religion and politics, and the equal distribuition of the rights of men through all sects and denominations of Irishmen. The people, when thus collected, will feel their own weight, and secure that power which theory has already admitted to be their portion, and to which, if they be not aroused by their present provocation to vindicate it, they deserve to forfeit their pretensions for ever. "

jtsuited

which sort of proves the point that the only thing concrete in the concept of Irishness is Not-Englishness.

i am not as buffed up on my history as some of the posters but i think one thing we have that makes us Irish unique is a strong sense of community spirit/charity in times of need, will to fight like fuk/look at how succesful the irish are in a lot of sports for the size of our nation. The sense of helping each other out is alive and well, seen plenty of it recently, not sure where our ability to pull together on a national level for the better of everyone is right now... if its found sometime soon i think we will pull through no bother. Most people know exactly whats needed to get us all on the right track, imo its a case of getting rid of Alcapone and his henchmen and then facing her for the gap

Scubadevils

Jamie Future Needle wrote: »

Has anyone ever attempted to explain the East-Asian work ethic? The Chinese, Japanese and especially Koreans are ultra industrious to the point where the rest of the world looks on in awe. Indeed... I'm stumped on the matter.

I'd say in the case of somewhere like Japan its absolutely down to the level of discipline and military rule in their history. The dominant class being the Samurai for several centuries without doubt has an impact on the culture and phycological behaviour of the people there. I've had dealing with Japanese people (and actually Chinese & Koreans, very similar) in business over the years and have been hugely impressed by their strict attitude to business - they can be similar to us in terms of social but the social element tends to remain within social hours - the next morning they are very much back to business.

I think the reality now in terms of the recession and the state that the country is in is that we individually have to look at what's in our circle of control/influence and what's not - yes there is huge unemployment and its not easy but to start with we have to look at how we can improve things for ourselves and by that I mean by starting with ourselves - believing we are the best, striving to be the best and ensuring that others believe we are the best at what we do - and thats not just by belief alone but by actual actions... eating well, exercising, further study, identifying areas of weakness and doing something about it, drugs/smoking/alcohol, not making excuses about external factors that you cannot control before taking ownership for the factors that you can control. The elements that you need to add to your life to allow it to improve need to be rigorously entrenched into your brain and become habits, part of your daily routine.

Android 666

jtsuited wrote: »

And it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.....we really aren't that great. The only thing we've ever been good at is Literature but having learnt about many of the great Irish writers, you learn that, apart from Joyce and maybe a few others, our great writers tended to be protestant Anglo-Irish types that were the very type we sought to rid this country of for years.

I've been thinking about it a bit as well. Don't get me I live living in it and it suits my mouldy temperament but I think it's good to analyze what it's all about culturally and politically.

Here was a thread in another forum where a debate on Ireland's cultural history started:

http://www.creativeireland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26814

Edit: It goes a bit deep into design process at the end - might bore some people

jtsuited

Deleted User wrote: »

i am not as buffed up on my history as some of the posters but i think one thing we have that makes us Irish unique is a strong sense of community spirit/charity in times of need, will to fight like fuk/look at how succesful the irish are in a lot of sports for the size of our nation.

hmmmmm........our most played sport is soccer and we've only ever been in 3 world cups. I know that's not too bad for a nation our size but it's nothing outstanding either.
In rugby terms, it's an internationally obscure sport (as in fcuk all countries play it) and that sport is dominated by a very small country in the form of the All Blacks. So even if we were to be better than the All Blacks (which will never happen) it wouldn't be a huge deal.
Every other sporting achievement we've had barring Sonia O Sullivan's mid 90s run of good fortune has been very dodgy altogether (Michelle the lying cheat De Brun, Cian O Connor etc.).
And maybe Barry Mc Guigan.

BaZmO*

Scubadevils wrote: »

I'd say in the case of somewhere like Japan its absolutely down to the level of discipline and military rule in their history. The dominant class being the Samurai for several centuries without doubt has an impact on the culture and phycological behaviour of the people there. I've had dealing with Japanese people (and actually Chinese & Koreans, very similar) in business over the years and have been hugely impressed by their strict attitude to business - they can be similar to us in terms of social but the social element tends to remain within social hours - the next morning they are very much back to business.

Is the Japanese work ethic not borne out of their post world rebuild and the introduction of more efficient production methods among other things?

BaZmO*

jtsuited wrote: »

And it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately.....we really aren't that great. The only thing we've ever been good at is Literature but having learnt about many of the great Irish writers, you learn that, apart from Joyce and maybe a few others, our great writers tended to be protestant Anglo-Irish types that were the very type we sought to rid this country of for years.

Eh what are you talking about man!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjLBXlieI0

jtsuited

Scubadevils wrote: »

I've had dealing with Japanese people (and actually Chinese & Koreans, very similar)

you'd almost say indistinguishable Scuba wouldn't you?:p

Scubadevils wrote: »

believing we are the best, striving to be the best and ensuring that others believe we are the best at what we do - and thats not just by belief alone but by actual actions... eating well, exercising, further study, identifying areas of weakness and doing something about it, drugs/smoking/alcohol, not making excuses about external factors that you cannot control before taking ownership for the factors that you can control. The elements that you need to add to your life to allow it to improve need to be rigorously entrenched into your brain and become habits, part of your daily routine.

Someone's made some pretty significant New Year's resolutions huh?

Although it is true. Once you get into a routine of exercise and good eating, it's a walk in the park. It's getting through the first few weeks of punishment that's the challenge.
And in Ireland, there's always a mate texting you inviting you on a bender to undo all your good work.

I think one of our main characteristics as an ethnicity is our absolute distrust of authority. And for good reason, what with the way we were treated for hundreds of years.
We have very funny social constructs of what characterises a good person in this country. We like a cute hooer who can get away with things with the least amount of work possible. We're a bit like gypsies in that regard.
We, as a nation, thankfully don't buy into the whole 'work is prayer' protestant ethic, and we genuinely get pleasure from cutting people down to size when they get a bit egomaniacal.
If you talk to most other nationalities about celebrity experiences they tend to recant tales of respect and admiration but us Irish we like to tell stories of how Liam Gallagher was in their local and everyone pretended they didn't know who he was to wind him up.
Personally, I love our general tendency to subvert power and status at every chance we get (which probably comes from being fcuked by the British Monarchy for so long). Then again, it takes its toll when we try as a nation to run anything efficiently - transport systems, governance systems, etc. - because we have a national chip on our shoulder about authority.

If any of y'all are interested (which I doubt any of y'all are) there was a famous ethnography done by an American anthropologist on the West of Ireland in the 1930s which I can't remember the name of, but gave great insight into common Irish traits. Unfortunately nearly every trait you can think of stems from our history of being fcuked by the British.

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Eh what are you talking about man!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjLBXlieI0

er, nearly every actual achievement he mentions there involves Anglo-Irish protestants - Shackleton, Wilde, Bram Stoker, Jonathan Swift, Beckett (who fcukin hated the Irish with a passion), Beaufort (French-British), the list goes on.

They weren't viewed as Irish by the actual natives here at the time, so it's a bit disingenuous to start saying 'oh look how great we are', considering it's a completely different bunch of people than what we regard as actually Irish.

Edit: That video shows something else uniquely Irish......our delusions of Grandeur. What Irishman invented the submarine again?
Edit: Out of that long list, the only thing that is accurate is the James Hoban thing and at a stretch the reference to JFK (although let's not mention the fact that his family were a bunch of violent criminals who racketeered their way into politics).
The charity mention I would imagine is a reference to Bob Geldof and/or Bono.

jtsuited

jtsuited wrote: »

hmmmmm........our most played sport is soccer and we've only ever been in 3 world cups. I know that's not too bad for a nation our size but it's nothing outstanding either.
In rugby terms, it's an internationally obscure sport (as in fcuk all countries play it) and that sport is dominated by a very small country in the form of the All Blacks. So even if we were to be better than the All Blacks (which will never happen) it wouldn't be a huge deal.
Every other sporting achievement we've had barring Sonia O Sullivan's mid 90s run of good fortune has been very dodgy altogether (Michelle the lying cheat De Brun, Cian O Connor etc.).
And maybe Barry Mc Guigan.

your a tough cookie JT. Golf, horse racing... some of the finest soccer players to ever grace a pitch imo have been Irishmen. Not too shabby for a country our size to be fair.. then there is the music: all those eurovisions & The Corrs

jtsuited

Deleted User wrote: »

your a tough cookie JT. Golf, horse racing... some of the finest soccer players to ever grace a pitch imo have been Irishmen. Not too shabby for a country our size to be fair.. then there is the music: all those eurovisions & The Corrs

I'll give you golf.
Horse racing is only because of our stud history which was entirely founded by the British protestant landowners.
Soccer players? Hmmmmm.......we talking expats here?edit: sorry not expats but English descendants of Irish people.

ianuss

jtsuited wrote: »

I'll give you golf.
Horse racing is only because of our stud history which was entirely founded by the British protestant landowners.
Soccer players? Hmmmmm.......we talking expats here?edit: sorry not expats but English descendants of Irish people.

Roy Keane recently. And Liam Brady is one the most talented European footballers ever.