You are not a f*cking DJ. You’re an overpaid, untalented, cake-throwing c*nt.

raymann

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I wish i was middle class.

Oddly enough I don't think Rugby is particularly middle class at all...except in Dublin.

im in sw france, the rugby culture here is totally different to the uk or ireland. its very very working class, farmer types. basically the french equivalent of red necks.

the matches between the towns get nasty, its a real eye opener actually.

Logical Fallacy

raymann wrote: »

im in sw france, the rugby culture here is totally different to the uk or ireland. its very very working class, farmer types. basically the french equivalent of red necks.

the matches between the towns get nasty, its a real eye opener actually.

When i first moved to Dublin i was asking about assorted Rugby clubs I was thinking about going out for and people kept asking was i "a posh ****", i was really surprised then as at home in the midlands and down in Limerick where i played it definitely wasn't seen as a posh guys sport. Tough lads from the terraces mostly.

BaZmO*

Jamie Future Needle wrote: »

It's any man's game down here in Cork, but yeah, the same can't be said for Dublin.

Don't think JT is from Dublin though. Think he's a culchie

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Don't think JT is from Dublin though. Think he's a culchie

tis true. Although the club I played for played in the metropolitan league. We were certainly not a middle class club, and were quite notable for that fact - Trevor Brennan came from our club.

But in Dublin, and I hate to say it, it's actually the working class' fault that it's seen as a poshboy game.
It's not that there are rules about being rich etc., and it's not the cost of playing (you need boots and a gumshield ffs). It's that certain members of the working class are quite vocal in their dislike of the game, while simultaneously exhibiting the massive chip on the shoulder they have.

In fact I think when we won the grand slam there were textbook displays of it on this very forum.

Half my family are from Munster and if you refused to get into rugby because it was 'a game for posh feckers' you'd get a right tongue-lashing.

jtsuited

oh and in case any one accuses me of the same discrimination in terms of soccer or GAA, I played underage soccer for my local team til I was 12 (we were sh1te), and played gaelic for my local club til the same age (we even played a county final).

How many of the working class rugby haters have even set foot on a pitch?

raymann

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

When i first moved to Dublin i was asking about assorted Rugby clubs I was thinking about going out for and people kept asking was i "a posh ****", i was really surprised then as at home in the midlands and down in Limerick where i played it definitely wasn't seen as a posh guys sport. Tough lads from the terraces mostly.

i think its pretty obvious when you look at the difference between some of the munster and leinster players in the national team!

love the game now though.....

jtsuited

to be fair, the whole explanation for that simply comes down to the education system. Private schools in dublin tend to have Rugby as a religion. And very few public schools have the people passionate enough about the game to devote such time to it without remuneration.

Is mise le key

ianuss wrote: »

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I read his book Fingerprints of the gods must be about 10 year ago now, really pulls together an argument you would have trouble picking holes in to say the least.

joker77

jtsuited wrote: »

to be fair, the whole explanation for that simply comes down to the education system. Private schools in dublin tend to have Rugby as a religion. And very few public schools have the people passionate enough about the game to devote such time to it without remuneration.

Only in Dublin? Would it not be the case all around the country?

you can get funny upper class/lower class attitudes in sport, load of boll1x imo often found similar here in golf clubs whereas in america i found it to be a lot more laid back and classless..

Android 666

Deleted User wrote: »

you can get funny upper class/lower class attitudes in sport, load of boll1x imo often found similar here in golf clubs whereas in america i found it to be a lot more laid back and classless..

Wasn't Happy Gilmore not a play on that whole 'only rich people play golf' mentality? So I'm presuming that attitude exists in America as well, maybe just not as apparent as here - although tbf, golf could hardly be called the sport of the upper class here anymore.

BaZmO*

Android 666 wrote: »

Wasn't Happy Gilmore not a play on that whole 'only rich people play golf' mentality? So I'm presuming that attitude exists in America as well, maybe just not as apparent as here - although tbf, golf could hardly be called the sport of the upper class here anymore.

That's the thing though, in the US there's only really 2 classes, rich and poor.

Android 666

Android 666 wrote: »

Wasn't Happy Gilmore not a play on that whole 'only rich people play golf' mentality? So I'm presuming that attitude exists in America as well, maybe just not as apparent as here - although tbf, golf could hardly be called the sport of the upper class here anymore.

years since i seen it but from what i recall i interpreted it as taking the piss out of golfers that take themselves way too serious, which i agree with. Maybe it does but I got to play there a couple of times on would be classed as some top courses and never experienced it, cant say the same for here, it never should have been because its far from it

ianuss

Is mise le key wrote: »

I read his book Fingerprints of the gods must be about 10 year ago now, really pulls together an argument you would have trouble picking holes in to say the least.

I was on his website recently and saw that he's branched out to fiction these days - which is worrying. But like you say, some of his arguments and the evidence he provides are really compelling.

Logical Fallacy

ianuss wrote: »

I was on his website recently and saw that he's branched out to fiction these days - which is worrying. But like you say, some of his arguments and the evidence he provides are really compelling.

I don't know...Carl Sagan wrote some fiction. It not really a sign of a loosening of standards so much as a way for someone to create an interesting way to further discussion or explore human reaction.

ianuss

I seem to have missed something - why are there adults (plural btw) posting stuff about dying.com on the interwebs? Or is it just that I know a few saps?

Android 666

ianuss wrote: »

I seem to have missed something - why are there adults (plural btw) posting stuff about dying.com on the interwebs? Or is it just that I know a few saps?

You just know a load of spas. I go with neverdrinkingagain.org and ivegottheirishflu.org because I'm way street y'all!

jtsuited

Deleted User wrote: »

you can get funny upper class/lower class attitudes in sport, load of boll1x imo often found similar here in golf clubs whereas in america i found it to be a lot more laid back and classless..

ah yes the old 'there is no class system in the US' line. Absolute and utter horsesh1t. Remember when Tiger Woods came along? Seriously, there was uproar because of the 'types' it was attracting to the sport. Remember the Fried Chicken remark from the PGA guy?

Happy Gilmore was a direct play on the class issue, and to say otherwise shows a serious blindness to class issues.

Clanket

The whole class thing is a load of balls is you ask me. Only exists in people's heads.

ianuss

Ah come on, it hardly exists solely in peoples heads. Next time you're in town, walk up Henry Street and then head on up to Grafton St and see if you still think the same. It's night and day.

Logical Fallacy

The concept of class is an effective hangover from the days of nobility and royalty. It's also a remnant of caste systems and other such goodness, where the circumstance of your birth would largely dictate your role and opportunities in life.

The simple truth of it is that the divide is now based on money...so over the course of a few generations it's possible to acquire enough for your family to go from working poor to very rich and completely forget where they started.

I know more than a few folk who has quite rich parents and like to consider themselves upper glass...but their granddad was just a guy who had a shop in a small village down the country.

Class is an illusion...it's easier to lump people into one spot based of some weird pseudo-social reaction than consider the person might not be what you think they are.

ianuss

It's not just to do with money, historically yes, but it has morphed into very distinguishable groups. Have a look at maps and voting patterns. Check how many red tops are sold versus broadsheets in newsagents in different areas

francois

Clanket wrote: »

The whole class thing is a load of balls is you ask me. Only exists in people's heads.

I wish that were true, sadly it isn't

Logical Fallacy

ianuss wrote: »

It's not just to do with money, historically yes, but it has morphed into very distinguishable groups. Have a look at maps and voting patterns. Check how many red tops are sold versus broadsheets in newsagents in different areas

My point is that now people can buy or fake their way out of their perceived class status.

Back in the day a Noble was a Noble and a Commoner was a Commoner.

Kontakt

Is mise le key wrote: »

I read his book Fingerprints of the gods must be about 10 year ago now, really pulls together an argument you would have trouble picking holes in to say the least.

He'll be on the Joe Rogan podcast on Sunday. Should be interesting enough.

Android 666

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

My point is that now people can buy or fake their way out of their perceived class status.

Back in the day a Noble was a Noble and a Commoner was a Commoner.

And that situation is returning. Americans are realizing that social mobility is now nearly non-existent in the US and I'd imagine that Ireland isn't far behind. We have the illusion that people can go as far as they want but the reality is completely different.

ianuss

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

My point is that now people can buy or fake their way out of their perceived class status.

Back in the day a Noble was a Noble and a Commoner was a Commoner.

I don't think that's the case at all. Dolores McNamara is not middle or upper class. And I'd agree with Android too, social mobility is a myth by and large.

ianuss

Kontakt wrote: »

He'll be on the Joe Rogan podcast on Sunday. Should be interesting enough.

Really? Where'd you see that?

Logical Fallacy

ianuss wrote: »

I don't think that's the case at all. Dolores McNamara is not middle or upper class. And I'd agree with Android too, social mobility is a myth by and large.

But her great grand kids will be. They'll have gone to better schools and all that ****. It happens over time.

Do you really think all those people out in Foxrock etc were born to money, as there parents were, and there grandparents...and they always just had money?

Go back far enough and they were dirt poor, the same as everyone else in Ireland.

Android 666

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

But her great grand kids will be. They'll have gone to better schools and all that ****. It happens over time.

Do you really think all those people out in Foxrock etc were born to money, as there parents were, and there grandparents...and they always just had money?

Go back far enough and they were dirt poor, the same as everyone else in Ireland.

Go back far enough with anyone and you're right we probably all came from a dirt poor background but what happened in the past is not an indicator of what is happening in the present.