You are not a f*cking DJ. You’re an overpaid, untalented, cake-throwing c*nt.

seannash

Lads what the fcuk is going on here.Ive been offline a few days and cant make head nor tail of this conversation.

I keep waiting for a good opportunity to jump in but none have arisen

Ill wait til someone gets back to posting silly videos,thats where i really shine:)

Android 666

So you like rubber? Are you into pearl necklaces and golden showers as well?

Zascar

seannash wrote: »

Lads what the fcuk is going on here.Ive been offline a few days and cant make head nor tail of this conversation.

I keep waiting for a good opportunity to jump in but none have arisen

Ill wait til someone gets back to posting silly videos,thats where i really shine:)

Hahaha I know it was going crazy yesterday, I was trying to keep up while in work but it was not happening, dozens of posts every hour!

I think we need a new thread title, I was considering changing it yesterday to "We're all fukked, lets emigrate" but the topic had changed several times by the time I got back online...

Android 666

Can I suggest 'The Rubber, Pearl Necklace and Golden Showers Thread'.

It would be fun to see if we'd get any interesting visitors…

BaZmO*

Android 666 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting you're uneducated scum but I think mainly people are illustrating that the criteria expected of job applicants has changed considerably.

Maybe for people starting off but I still maintain that experience far outweighs education when it comes to getting a job. Especially in the current climate. Companies aren't willing to give someone out of college, and extremely green, the time to learn on the job. You really need to know what you're doing from the off.

Now obviously education is important, and for certain jobs you have to have some for of formal education, but in those cases, things haven't changed, you always needed that. The only time when a higher level of education would come into play, is when two candidates have the same level of experience, but one has a relevant education to back up what they do. But that would've always have been the case.

jtsuited wrote: »

yeah we are talking about in the context of current standards not those of 15 years ago.
there was a very interesting point brought up by one of the professors from DCU in the Irish Times a few weeks back (think he was a professor, one of the head guys anywho) -
his point was that free third level fees had utterly failed in what it set out to do, which was make the class/third level concept disappear.

The rate of people in the working classes taking up third level education pretty much remains the exact same as when fees existed so therefore it's just giving middle class chancers who could easily afford to pay (for example me) a free way of getting some university education.

Hmmm interesting. I'd love to see the figures on that. It does make sense though. Going to college, for some, is generally not a consideration. And for others, it's a gaurantee.

jtsuited wrote: »

..which gives me an excuse to indulge in one of my strangest pleasures - going into mechanics/tyre repair places and taking a huge inhalation of the air. I absolutely love the rubbery/oily smell in those places. Life is all about the small things imo!

Ah, gives you a chance to dream of what it'd be like to do a bit of real work eh?

Scubadevils

Android 666 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting you're uneducated scum but I think mainly people are illustrating that the criteria expected of job applicants has changed considerably.

Ah I was being over dramatic/joking - note the time of my post!

I come from a typical middle class background but my family hit financial difficulty just after I did the junior cert, not going to go into detail but it was a very hard time. I've worked hard over the years and would consider myself to be in a good job with reasonable income, perks etc - the thing is that it's not really what I want to do in life and the difference is had I gone to college I might be doing what I wanted to do in life... I know thats certainly not a given as I know many people who have studied for years and are working in jobs they hate or never intended to do.

I agree though that its vital to constantly nurture your intelligence by way of books etc - whatever you put in, you put back out.

I hope to get back to studying at some stage when the economy settles down (which it will) and the kids are a little older. I'd like to think its never too late.

I love this line from Earl Nightingale...

'Success is the progressive realisation of a worthy ideal'.

Your measure of success in life should be determined by way of what makes you happy, not what society deems to be 'success'.

Anyway, thats kinda sidetracking somewhat!

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

hmmmm....really? Because I've had some dealings with him and found him great.
The one thing that has harmed his public image is his low bullsh1t threshold. He has no problem speaking his mind in most circumstances (evidently last night was one of those occasions!), and he gets genuine pleasure out of calling people out and lambasting them. Not good in the eyes of many unfortunately. Personally I love it.

I have very good & real reason for it but i really couldnt say it here.

Android 666 wrote: »

But you used the story of your friend to illustrate the point that you don't need an education. I think that's wrong.

No you took it up wrong, after the four or five pages of sayying you need this & that, Masters & degrees etc etc i was simply trying to point out that you dont necessarily need to have a recognised college education to be educated in how business & people work, i never said my friend wasnt educated, you simply took it that because i highlighted that he didnt have an education that comprised of three levels of schooling that i was saying he was uneducated, thats you being presumptuous.

seannash

Zascar wrote: »

Hahaha I know it was going crazy yesterday, I was trying to keep up while in work but it was not happening, dozens of posts every hour!

I think we need a new thread title, I was considering changing it yesterday to "We're all fukked, lets emigrate" but the topic had changed several times by the time I got back online...

As far as life choices go,me returning to Ireland has got to be a very silly one.
Ill be honest i dont ever take an interest in politics so this conversation is a bit boring for me.

But you guys can knock yourselves out:)

Scubadevils

jtsuited wrote: »

btw, Fridays are always good for this thread so let the good times roll!

Although keep all the crazy stuff for the afternoon, I'm off record shopping for the morning. I have to get a tyre fixed, which gives me an excuse to indulge in one of my strangest pleasures - going into mechanics/tyre repair places and taking a huge inhalation of the air. I absolutely love the rubbery/oily smell in those places. Life is all about the small things imo!

Do you ever get funny looks from the mechanics or threats of violence?

Android 666

Is mise le key wrote: »

No you took it up wrong, after the four or five pages of sayying you need this & that, Masters & degrees etc etc i was simply trying to point out that you dont necessarily need to have a recognised college education to be educated in how business & people work, i never said my friend wasnt educated, you simply took it that because i highlighted that he didnt have an education that comprised of three levels of schooling that i was saying he was uneducated, thats you being presumptuous.

He left school without any formal educational qualifications, he hasn't a formal education. I never made any reference to the intelligence of the man so I can't figure out how I'm being presumptuous. You say you dont necessarily need to have a recognised college education but I think your friend is the exception that proves the rule.

Android 666

BaZmO* wrote: »

Maybe for people starting off but I still maintain that experience far outweighs education when it comes to getting a job. Especially in the current climate. Companies aren't willing to give someone out of college, and extremely green, the time to learn on the job. You really need to know what you're doing from the off.

Now obviously education is important, and for certain jobs you have to have some for of formal education, but in those cases, things haven't changed, you always needed that. The only time when a higher level of education would come into play, is when two candidates have the same level of experience, but one has a relevant education to back up what they do. But that would've always have been the case.

In the current climate, all bets are off to a certain extent and anyone with no experience is in a bit of a black hole considering the levels of unemployment. But if you've no experience and no college education bind you're in a double bind.

joker77

The thing is there are quite a lot of exceptions though. I've 2 close friends who don't have a leaving cert. One left school in 5th year, went back again the following year but never finished. The other one failed his leaving. Both are doing alright for themselves - earning between 50k and 70k.

The education system doesn't work for some people, especially our secondary system.

Edit: Fair enough the one who left before sitting the leaving now has a degree

Zascar

I was over in the UK at a team building event a few months ago - where our new manager of a new team wanted to get us all together to get to know each other better. There was about 20 people, half hardcore techies, and half hot-shot and ridiculously highly paid sales guys. We were going round the room getting to know each other (1am after loads of booze) and one of the first questions was what did you do in university. Amazingly, only one person in the room did not have a university degree, but it was the most surprising as this guy was what you could almost call a stereotypical highly educated guy - bit of an introvert but exceptionally professional, articulate and fantastic at his job. Anyway, he said that he notices a significant difference between the mindset of people who went to University against those who did not. A third level education teaches you to think in a certain manner which gives those an advantage against those who do not have one. Basically he just said he had to work extra hard to make up for this difference. So fair fuks to him for getting to the top of his game - cause really at the end of the day, most of it is down to just plain hard work.

Out of everyone that I work with that does more or less the same kind of job - you'd think there would be a particular personality type that would be attracted to this type of job, or a type that would exceed and so last - but really there is none and there are all sorts of different types who each do well in their own accord

Is mise le key

Android 666 wrote: »

He left school without any formal educational qualifications, he hasn't a formal education. I never made any reference to the intelligence of the man so I can't figure out how I'm being presumptuous. You say you dont necessarily need to have a recognised college education but I think your friend is the exception that proves the rule.

Ok, dont know what the figures are here but i have no college education & barely got my leaving cert & have done fairly well with the position i am now in through my own hard work & skills & have a wide knowledge outside of my job of a lot of different things, Scuba also pointed out he departed formal education in 5th year & sounds a very tuned in guy & also doing well through personal skill menatally, the guy i work with here is very sharp although he had almost nothing from formal schooling.

Old saying,

You can feed a donkey a ton of oats but he will never win the derby.

Zascar

joker77 wrote: »

The thing is there are quite a lot of exceptions though. I've 2 close friends who don't have a leaving cert. One left school in 5th year, went back again the following year but never finished. The other one failed his leaving. Both are doing alright for themselves - earning between 50k and 70k.

The education system doesn't work for some people, especially our secondary system.

+1 - out of my school friends, amazingly there were 4 guys who were highly dyslexic and never did well in school, always struggled. However all 4 of them have each done significantly better for themselves in careers than the vast majority of the other people in our year.

BaZmO*

So we're agreed then that "it depends" on the situation.

jtsuited

Scubadevils wrote: »

'Success is the progressive realisation of a worthy ideal'.

Your measure of success in life should be determined by way of what makes you happy, not what society deems to be 'success'.

Anyway, thats kinda sidetracking somewhat!

not sidetracking at all imo. Life is so much more complex than having an end goal of having money (for some people).
I remember a while back thinking what I would do if I were to have a massive windfall (lotto, good day at the races, whatever) and didn't have to work a day for the rest of my life.
And tbh, I'm 100% positive that I'd go back to university and most likely stay there, doing degree upon degree of stuff that interests me. The deep satisfaction of academic pursuit is something I've missed since finishing college 4 years ago.
These days, my pathetic intellectual pursuits consist of QI and a couple of 2 hour sessions on wikipedia a week.

One of the greatest failings of Irish Universities was letting them becoming essentially trade guilds and training institutions. So many of the conceptual principles of the university education have been neglected by people who look at university as a place to get trained for a job. That is entirely not what a university is, almost by definition.

Global society as a whole has been furthered far more by universities allowing the free exchange of mathematical, philosophical, scientific and social ideas than it has been by technical institutes creating a skilled labour force (which is highly necessary too).

The ridiculous thing is when people berate the social sciences as something that lazy arts students do that is of no use to anyone. I find it ridiculous because even inherent in this thread are some staggeringly important philosophical, sociological, anthropological and economic questions that have so much bearing on the 'real world'...some examples of these types of lofty yet important concepts already in this thread are....

1. The fundamental nature of humans and therefore how we should govern ourselves based on said nature.

2. The construction of a society around accumulation of capital (Marxist sociological theory 101 - the first module in most sociology courses), and its economic implications. We are living this out right now - what we are faced with in this country now is a struggle between conflicting ideologies around how to regulate capitalism or whether to regulate it at all (yeah because that's worked - thanks PD's you bunch of cúnts).

3. The nature of argument and logic. First year philosophy students in my degree had to take Logic (as in formal Logic) as a compulsory module. If society as a whole had any sort of clue how to judge an argument's validity, we would have a far far far better society.
And if people didn't use the fallacious Argument from Incredulity (otherwise known as the rolleyes argument on this very forum) so often, we as a species would be a lot better off.

these are just three things off the top of my head, that to me, are pretty fundamental to the 'real world'.

We owe modern society, democracy and all that jazz to the Ancient Greeks, whose areas of intellectual interest are supposed to be represented in the educational ethos of a University.
Unfortunately, I very much doubt that Aristotle, Plato, and the boys would be too enamoured with these institutions granting degrees to people who have merely been trained in only one very very specific technologically relevant (but most likely soon to be obsolete) area mainly because some multinational corporations are funding it to get cheap highly skilled labour after three years.

Android 666

Is mise le key wrote: »

Old saying,

You can feed a donkey a ton of oats but he will never win the derby.

Starving a racehorse isn't going help him win it either.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

Anyway, he said that he notices a significant difference between the mindset of people who went to University against those who did not. A third level education teaches you to think in a certain manner which gives those an advantage against those who do not have one. Basically he just said he had to work extra hard to make up for this difference.

this is precisely my point. what you actually do in university is fairly irrelevant once you've actually gone through and academic standards were high (unfortunately recently that's not been the case).

When I was doing my MA, I was scared sh1tless because it was fairly maths and programming based (areas which I still feel hopelessly out of my depth).
I had got a scholarship through doing a degree in Anthropology and Sociology ffs.
At the meet and greet thing, I asked the Professor of the Department did he not think it was a bit of a risky move putting someone who didn't even do a music degree (let alone computer science) into a masters like that, and he laughed saying that the whole point of a university education is that you will be able to move into any field because it develops your intellect as opposed to training you with a particular specific skill.
Tbh, I found the course a walk in the park whereas I'd say if I had gone straight from school into something like that, I wouldn't have been able to keep my head above water.

Btw, there are plenty of guys like you mentioned Zascar who are highly educated, intelligent and of great intellect without a degree to their name. But like yer man says, it's a hell of a lot easier if you've actually gone to a university where knowledge flows freely on tap, and where you're surrounded by plenty of easy women all day (man I miss college!!!!).

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

We owe modern society, democracy and all that jazz to the Ancient Greeks, .

Feckin greeks, they inveted gayness:D

jtsuited wrote: »

and where you're surrounded by plenty of easy women all day (man I miss college!!!!).

No room for them in ancient athens:D

jtsuited

oh believe me, if there was one bunch of lads who didn't know how to keep it in their pants it was the greeks. Aside from all the pederasty and rampant homosexuality, they had their women ready and able at every minute of the day.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

they had their women ready and able at every minute of the day.

So your telling me the ancient greeks had identified utopia long befor karl marx:D

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

Ah, gives you a chance to dream of what it'd be like to do a bit of real work eh?

haha probably. I've never done a day of real work in my life. Despise manual labour with every fibre of my being.

That's not to say I don't work hard at some things etc., just the idea of proper real manual labour drains me of the will to live.

Must be the slight Jewish bloodline that is suspected to run in my family.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

Must be the slight Jewish bloodline that is suspected to run in my family.

That would explain your superiority complex also;)

joker77

It's funny, part of my lotto dream would be able to not have to work so that I could spend more time doing physical activity.

I don't think it's healthy for us humans to be sitting down for 8 hours a day looking a computer screen, but that's my life.

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

So your telling me the ancient greeks had identified utopia long befor karl marx:D

identified???? they fcukin lived it man.
Karl Marx's utopia is all tractors and workers and autonomous syndicates of labourers owning the means of production.

The Greeks were into togas, intellectual endeavour, arguing like nutjobs, and minxes playing harps. In revealing togas.

I know which utopia a thread like this would be valued more in!

jtsuited

Is mise le key wrote: »

That would explain your superiority complex also;)

haha racist and insulting. Double points!:D

Android 666

Is mise le key wrote: »

That would explain your superiority complex also;)

Anymore talk like that and JT'll have to go rabbi on your ass!



Pedant’s corner: Anti-semitism isn't racism

BaZmO*

jtsuited wrote: »

Must be the slight Jewish bloodline that is suspected to run in my family.

Speaking of which, has anybody ever traced their family tree?

I'm actually in the process of doing it. It's amazing how little families know about their own family. And I'm not talking distant relatives. Go back one or two generations and names, locations, etc. get lost. Fascinating stuff.

jtsuited

Android 666 wrote: »

Pedant’s corner: Anti-semitism isn't racism

Pedants' corner's pedants' corner : when we were referring to 'the Jews' in this context we are mainly referring to an ethnic group mainly made up of descendants of Shepardi and Askenazi Jews.
Because of their striking genetic characteristics (and specific genetic diseases that seem to only effect them), the term is far more a description of ethnicity rather than religion.

Now without getting into all sorts of notions of Weberian constructs and the difference between an ethnic group and race, it's fairly apt to call it racism.