Immigration both nationally and internationally

Denerick

drdoon wrote: »

I have been busy yet thinking about following up on your post ... You are of course correct and I take the other points you have made onboard! But I have to say this. That Black people do not have exclusivity on poverty. There have always been and continue to be indigenous britons living in inner city poor areas. Alongside blacks, Asians, as well as many others. But the fact still remains that black people are committing a disproportionate amount of crime. The fact that they are a different skin colour doesn't automatically mean they have it worse off than their white or Asian neighbours. So why should they commit far more crimes than them. All of the reasons you have given for why this happens are valid. But as I said, inner city life is not a black thing. It's inner city life no matter what colour you are. So I yet have to find a valid reason for the extremes they go to day after day after day. Why does Tridant exist? Why did that guy get the back of his head blown off for telling lads to stop sitting his car. Why did a black gang rob a whole train carriage? There are no excuses.

Nobody excuses crime, instead they try to understand why it happens in the first place. Does anyone have any official statistics for crime breakdowns by income groups across a wide spectrum of European countries? That would make interesting reading.

drdoon

I'm sure it would..you have a good Summer now Denerick & enjoy the World cup. I'm putting this sucker to bed. Thanks for the insightful banter. Later

CCCP

scallioneater wrote: »

I really want to know how ANYONE from outside the EU have gotten the go ahead to stay here indefinitely?

1- Marriage to an Irish person
2-Marriage to an EU national working/living here
3-Asylum
4-skilled in specialist area and working/living here for 5 years , naturalized immigrants (Example : Doctor)

I'm curious, I'm Irish and been looking for work for 6 months, my local shop has about 11 staff, all Brazilian, recently hired a new guy also Brazilian. I check everywhere for job listings and never saw the job advertised, not in shop either.

They are all lovely blokes, some are my friends, but still its strange that this shop has had several people come and go , and Ive only ever seen one non Brazilian, she was Czech. Where are all these jobs being advertised and in what language? I'm Irish and also want one of these jobs that "the Irish don't want to do"!

Are there channels open for non EU immigrants to get jobs here that are unavailable to the Irish? or am I just being paranoid?

shinfujiwara

CCCP wrote: »

1- Marriage to an Irish person
2-Marriage to an EU national working/living here
3-Asylum
4-skilled in specialist area and working/living here for 5 years , naturalized immigrants (Example : Doctor)

I'm curious, I'm Irish and been looking for work for 6 months, my local shop has about 11 staff, all Brazilian, recently hired a new guy also Brazilian. I check everywhere for job listings and never saw the job advertised, not in shop either.

They are all lovely blokes, some are my friends, but still its strange that this shop has had several people come and go , and Ive only ever seen one non Brazilian, she was Czech. Where are all these jobs being advertised and in what language? I'm Irish and also want one of these jobs that "the Irish don't want to do"!

Are there channels open for non EU immigrants to get jobs here that are unavailable to the Irish? or am I just being paranoid?

I can't speak for all immigrants, but as a brazilian i can say that brazilians stick only with brazilians most of the time. There are lots and lots of brazilian websites that help you get a job, showing job ads or brazilian digital communities in which they talk and help themselves about all sorts of matters all the time. The most famous social website for them is Orkut, a Google franchise.

My wife and I are brazilians and we will probably go to Ireland next year because of her italian citizenship. The reasons of "why ireland?" are quite a few. English language, small country, culture, people, costs of living, we really "fancy" your country, it's almost perfectly the opposite of our own... and we hate it. I didn't read all the posts but i could see that you guys want to know how on earth that amount of non-eu immigrants/unqualified could enter your country, I'll try to explain from what I've learned.

Almost all brazilians currently on Ireland are in there as english students, and these students are sometimes no students AT ALL! I've seen people staying more than 5 years saying that they are "still learning". You can depart from here with a course paid and you will get almost all rights as a normal resident, just because you are a english student. You can work 20 hours/week legally and 40 hours/week when you are on vacation, and i've heard of a lot of them working illegally for additional hours when they are in the study period. Frankly? As i said before, i can't talk for all nationalities/immigrants, but if you only could understand portuguese and join one of those brazilian communities on Orkut... boy, you'd be pissed!

Why? I've seen lots, looots of posts in there of things that make me more sad than i already am of being a brazilian. Many people being outlaws and also saying things as that they don't like you (irish), that they don't like your cities, your culture, and even that you wouldn't be able to have a good economy without them. How proud would you be seeing those kind of things coming from your own people?

Now, if you are wondering "why the hell are they in here, then?", that's easy. They want to be in a 1st world country, take advantage of it, enjoy it, maybe come back with a good amount of money, and sometimes they don't even plan to come back as long as your government continue to let them staying in there for 10 years renewing, renewing and renewing again their student visa.

I guess that some of you can see these kind of unpleasant behavior down the street or in a pub, and don't like the fact that your country became full of people like that, but i also don't believe you can run from it. Look at the United States, do you think it was full of scumbags in the 1920's? As your country becomes better/richer/healthier it's normal that it will attract a huge number of immigrants. The roar of your Celtic Tiger can be heard beyond your Emerald Island.


Speaking from myself, i don't pretend to fly to Europe to be no one. If you want to have a "good" education here you need to pay as high as 200 minimum wages during the extension of 4/6 years of non-stop daily study. Sometimes even higher than that. And if you want to have an "excellent" education, you know what you do? You get on a plane to Europe/North America/Asia/Oceania. There are no multiple options, only those two. Let me say that i'm really not willing to invade your country to destroy it, but to escape from my reality, to live in a fairer place. The majority of people in the world right now, by my understanding, are leaving under 2 american dollars per day and having an amazing ridiculous life. Don't you think it's obvious that if people can, they will go to a better place? For better understanding, a person could live better having a minimum wage in Ireland, than being a skilled bachelor in Brazil. And Brazil is no Burkina Faso, if you get my point.

Of course your government can adopt a more severe posture against immigrants as UK is starting to do, for example. I think it would help but of course wouldn't stop it. I've been searching informations about Ireland about many different matters since we decided to live there, and since the beginning i found very strange your immigration policy. I think if Ireland continues to welcome every kind of immigrant, by 2030 at least Dublin will be worst than today’s London indeed.

About the difficulty to find jobs recently in Ireland for an irish citizen, i really wanted to know from you guys, if it's THAT hard as i often hear! Because even here on boards.ie you can find people angrily complaining that immigrants are stealing your jobs. Are we, really? If you get out now and keep on searching for some Burger King position, you won't find things like that? I find it hard to believe. I think people one day were skilled architects and in the other day, after losing their jobs because of the recession, just didn't want to get a menial job.

I could be wrong, though. Really curious about that if someone can help me to understand the actual situation.

jamimon

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Prove it.

Then look at the economic activity of immigrants. The CSO said the non-nationals were 19.4% of the live register and that figure was rising month on month, but is somewhat stagnant during the previous quarter. This is despite figures suggesting that immigrants are 12-15% of the workforce, but then also factor in those that cannot make a claim because of the 2 year habitual residence rule. This suggests to me that circa 20%+ of immigrants in the labour force who could potentially make a claim are doing so compared to an overall 12% unemployment rate. Then add in child allowance, rent supplements, medical cards, fuel allowance, the whole shebang.

Also, the immigrants will eventually need pensions too.

You know that some of the non eu immigranst do not have the luxury to claim any benefits? So most of what we paid in PRSI or PAYE we don't get it back. Plus college is not free. 1000+ something for first timer for irish, 3000+ for non irish, 11000+ for non eu. On top of that we cannot claim scholarship, or any other benefits. I do agree we use the public services that are financed by the government, but seriously, have you been to the immigration? We definately do not avail of pension that I can guarantee.

I'm curious, I'm Irish and been looking for work for 6 months, my local shop has about 11 staff, all Brazilian, recently hired a new guy also Brazilian. I check everywhere for job listings and never saw the job advertised, not in shop either. They are all lovely blokes, some are my friends, but still its strange that this shop has had several people come and go , and Ive only ever seen one non Brazilian, she was Czech. Where are all these jobs being advertised and in what language? I'm Irish and also want one of these jobs that "the Irish don't want to do"! Are there channels open for non EU immigrants to get jobs here that are unavailable to the Irish? or am I just being paranoid?

Do you really know how hard we try? But most of the time, we stick together. Natural instinct. If you were to work in Japan, you wouldn't be surprise to find a shop with many irish people working would you? If there are 2 shops, one with many irish people and one without, which one would you think you will have the higher chances? Seriously put yourself in our shoes. When you go oversea next time in non english speaking and non eu country, atleast 12 hours flight away from your home, bring just enough for 1 month, print out several CVs and try to look for a job. Work under their currency and live their life. Tell me when you successfully survive one year.

Now, if you are wondering "why the hell are they in here, then?", that's easy. They want to be in a 1st world country, take advantage of it, enjoy it, maybe come back with a good amount of money, and sometimes they don't even plan to come back as long as your government continue to let them staying in there for 10 years renewing, renewing and renewing again their student visa.

I wouldn't say 1st, but better economy. Its natural. Did the irish not do that around 20 years ago when they all went to america? I heard some are getting deported from america a year ago maybe, I don't follow news.

If you have problems please to let your voice be heard. Posting on websites, chit chating and such will only generate hatred which leads to crime. I do get a lot of them not just in ireland. I do ignore them. You don't know when your children will work in China or India or Brazil in the future. It would be fun to watch then.

shinfujiwara

jamimon wrote: »

I wouldn't say 1st, but better economy. Its natural. Did the irish not do that around 20 years ago when they all went to america? I heard some are getting deported from america a year ago maybe, I don't follow news.

If you have problems please to let your voice be heard. Posting on websites, chit chating and such will only generate hatred which leads to crime. I do get a lot of them not just in ireland. I do ignore them. You don't know when your children will work in China or India or Brazil in the future. It would be fun to watch then.

In what part of my post did I said it wasn't natural? I totally agree with you on that. Of course it would be the same if Brazil was the Tiger, and Ireland a place to **** underage 7 years old little girls, pimped by their own mothers, for a real bargain.

And as I said, I don't speak for every immigrant, but most brazilians go there BECAUSE it is a 1st world country. It's more a matter of "status" than economic advantage. You need to remember that these people that depart from here have enough money to do so. They don't always live an amazing life, but it's good enough. A single airline ticket to Ireland would cost you something like 4 minimum wages. Most 20 years old employees earn much less than the minimum wage. Which means that even if someone is paying everything that they need to live, they still need 8/10 months of work only to buy this 1 single ticket. Excluding all the rest of costs they would have to make this "adventure" happen.

They just want to tell others that they were living in such a place, and of course, come back with as much money as they can. If you understand portuguese you can see that this behavior corresponds to more than 90% of the brazilians currently in Ireland. Unfortunately I'm not lying nor being biased, it is the truth.

In any case... people won't stop immigration to Ireland, of course not. If someone is letting them, why would them? It's the same for me, i'm running away from here like irishmen did to America in the past. And the irish are welcoming us like America did. Who would stop me if not the irish government?

But again, something that you guys should pay attention is the fact the many of the immigrants in Ireland right now, are in there because of Student VISA's. Anyone who wants to live for a indeterminate period of time in Ireland can do this "trick". You guys asked "how" they're doing it, and I just said the way that I know.

jamimon

I do agree about the "status", excluding the lifestyle, no offence but maybe its just me. And I'm also curiousl how they couldn't get a job. In mid level engineering job I've been in here, not a single soul from my continent.

Your hardship to get in Ireland and to live here is pretty much your story to tell. Unless they experience it, they'll never know. Why bother?

I think there's a stop in the student visa scheme. I don't read the news that much but it also does not affect me that much.

There will be discrimination nonetheless. But you also must put yourself in their (Irish) shoes as well. Its the status they want to protect, its their culture they want to preserve.

Nevertheless it is what it is, depends where you are born. Life just suck as it is, we can solve everything by drinking beer, the only thing I've learnt here. What a rap!

shinfujiwara

jamimon wrote: »

I do agree about the "status", excluding the lifestyle, no offence but maybe its just me. And I'm also curiousl how they couldn't get a job. In mid level engineering job I've been in here, not a single soul from my continent.

Your hardship to get in Ireland and to live here is pretty much your story to tell. Unless they experience it, they'll never know. Why bother?

I think there's a stop in the student visa scheme. I don't read the news that much but it also does not affect me that much.

There will be discrimination nonetheless. But you also must put yourself in their (Irish) shoes as well. Its the status they want to protect, its their culture they want to preserve.

Nevertheless it is what it is, depends where you are born. Life just suck as it is, we can solve everything by drinking beer, the only thing I've learnt here. What a rap!

People tend to forget important things by drinking or doing any other meaningless activity, indeed. Couldn't agree more.

But tell me, where you come from? When did you go to Ireland? And what's about the student visa? You heard something about changing it?

And yes, i'm still curious as you are about the jobs issue to irish citizens. I hope someone read this topic and clarify for me how it is in the reality. It's one of the things that I really wanted to know.

jamimon

I heard you can only have up to a limited time when you apply for level 7 or english course. You can't renew you visa anymore longer than that. Unless you do the IT or Uni course which costs 12000 upward a year for level 8. Looking at that figure, I don't think anyone would stay. Eitherway I'm not trying to stay here for the minimum wages or doing any tricks. Its not worth my time. Life is too short.

I'm from south east asia. There is no equality in my country, there is no real "home" on earth for me. My story is not important even for me as its not worth looking into the past. It is not your burden to bare.

In Ireland for 5 years. I was doing the thing you mentioned. But like I said, its not worth it. You have a considerable amount of money but then after a while you have nothing left. Why waste years of suffering just for that brief moment? Many may not see this, but who am I to judge.

People do things for selfish reasons, and its totally predictable, atleast for me. The only thing is that you don't want to be the victim. Whatever the figure what ever the percentage, I don't care. Half of my leg is already inside the coffin as I write this post.

ron2010

Denerick wrote: »

Immigration is good for our country and sooner or later Europe will have to face up to the reality that it needs migrants. What bothers me is that the US attracts some of the most skilled migrants in the world, while Europeans attract unskilled workers to do menial jobs. This is insane. We need highly skilled Africans and Asians to work in our economy, the Asians in particular played a very important role in Silicon Valley in America, they helped launch the new economy.

Europe is getting older, with a massive retiree population. Someone will have to pay the taxes to sustain this elderly population. An influx of black and brown people is necessary, whether people are willing to face that or not.

You see that is the whole problem. The People who are in favour of immigration into Ireland are usually foreign people who's ancestors didn't work hard or even die to make our country today.

Personally I dont consider foreign people with Irish Citizenship Irish.

They have their opinion that immigration is good because they abandoned their homelands for work abroad and it makes them feel better about themselves if everyone else does the same.

A lot of Irish People emigrated but ' A Lot Didn't' they stuck it out in their homelands for better or worse.

shinfujiwara

ron2010 wrote: »

You see that is the whole problem. The People who are in favour of immigration into Ireland are usually foreign people who's ancestors didn't work hard or even die to make our country today.

Personally I dont consider foreign people with Irish Citizenship Irish.

They have their opinion that immigration is good because they abandoned their homelands for work abroad and it makes them feel better about themselves if everyone else does the same.

A lot of Irish People emigrated but ' A Lot Didn't' they stuck it out in their homelands for better or worse.

It's easy to say that you would be in a country for better or worse, when you're an irish living in 2010. What your ancestors did, doesn't count for nothing, they're dead. Before this place called "Ireland" there was obviously another place, with another people, and do you feel that way too about that people which you don't even know? Because by this line of thought you should, even if they are dead 50.000 years ago.

Lots of irish ran away because this was the smart thing to do, no matter what type of romantic thing you come up with, that's the truth. If you lived in a reality where you can't buy clothes and food, couldn't do nothing for your family, everyday was horrible... your children crying because of hunger, you wife crying hysterically and trying to believe that YOU would fix something, when you know that's just IMPOSSIBLE.

Life is the entire world as we know it, there is no such thing as "I'm irish and i'm proud of it!", "I'm japanese and I'm proud of it!", "I'll stay with my people dying with them because they are my people and I love them".

So, you would die in a place that some politician put a name on it and said that it was your land and your people? Get real my friend... every place on our world is your land, and every single person is your people. Yes, in truth you live in that big of a "country", isn't that great? I genuinely hope that you'll wake up from that dream or you will be like those american soldiers that continuously die in some meaningless war because of 2 men who were amazingly childish and decided to kill some thousands of brainwashed citizens just to make a point.

"Personally I dont consider foreign people with Irish Citizenship Irish." That's because there is no such thing as "irish" or "Ireland". It's just a map, and in that part of the map people now have a so called "1st world quality of life" and have the tendency to drink beer all the time, that's it. Some recent people in your land were smart enough to do the right thing and now you're just dandy because of them, you know what this is called? Luck! Pretty good luck in fact.

You could have born and lived in some inhabitable place, you just didn't. It was just "an accident of birth", as a wise american/irish man called George Carlin, once told people. You need to understand that people who are born in a good place will think it's paradise, and will cherish it, as you probably do. People who are not born in this kind of place will see how **** it is, and if they have the option, of course they will flee to a better place! That is just the voice of reason. Wouldn't you agree?

There is nothing romantic about this matter. If you read my other posts you'll see how romantic I am about "my brazilian people", just because I was born in this part of the Atlas. I wanted to know when human beings will just live together, not labeled with nationalities, and just live their lives. It's just a name folks... there is nothing to it, it's just a name.

ron2010

shinfujiwara wrote: »

It's easy to say that you would be in a country for better or worse, when you're an irish living in 2010. What your ancestors did, doesn't count for nothing, they're dead. Before this place called "Ireland" there was obviously another place, with another people, and do you feel that way too about that people which you don't even know? Because by this line of thought you should, even if they are dead 50.000 years ago.

Lots of irish ran away because this was the smart thing to do, no matter what type of romantic thing you come up with, that's the truth. If you lived in a reality where you can't buy clothes and food, couldn't do nothing for your family, everyday was horrible... your children crying because of hunger, you wife crying hysterically and trying to believe that YOU would fix something, when you know that's just IMPOSSIBLE.

Life is the entire world as we know it, there is no such thing as "I'm irish and i'm proud of it!", "I'm japanese and I'm proud of it!", "I'll stay with my people dying with them because they are my people and I love them".

So, you would die in a place that some politician put a name on it and said that it was your land and your people? Get real my friend... every place on our world is your land, and every single person is your people. Yes, in truth you live in that big of a "country", isn't that great? I genuinely hope that you'll wake up from that dream or you will be like those american soldiers that continuously die in some meaningless war because of 2 men who were amazingly childish and decided to kill some thousands of brainwashed citizens just to make a point.

"Personally I dont consider foreign people with Irish Citizenship Irish." That's because there is no such thing as "irish" or "Ireland". It's just a map, and in that part of the map people now have a so called "1st world quality of life" and have the tendency to drink beer all the time, that's it. Some recent people in your land were smart enough to do the right thing and now you're just dandy because of them, you know what this is called? Luck! Pretty good luck in fact.

You could have born and lived in some inhabitable place, you just didn't. It was just "an accident of birth", as a wise american/irish man called George Carlin, once told people. You need to understand that people who are born in a good place will think it's paradise, and will cherish it, as you probably do. People who are not born in this kind of place will see how **** it is, and if they have the option, of course they will flee to a better place! That is just the voice of reason. Wouldn't you agree?

There is nothing romantic about this matter. If you read my other posts you'll see how romantic I am about "my brazilian people", just because I was born in this part of the Atlas. I wanted to know when human beings will just live together, not labeled with nationalities, and just live their lives. It's just a name folks... there is nothing to it, it's just a name.

No your wrong. What our ancestors did means everything. we are who we are because of them and we are here today because of them.

There are plenty of people in terrible situations all over the world but they don't all get up and walk away. They stick it out.

A lot of my grandparents etc were born into extreme poverty and struggled to put meals on the table but they stuck it out.

Ireland to me isn't just another place on a map that means nothing. It's my home and is a part of me.

You see a lot of people with influence including the Irish Government are turning it into some sort of multicultural centre where in years and years to come the Irish People as a race will cease to exist.

Maybe my way of thinking is wrong but I can't help feeling the way I do.

And I have to say I am glad as an Irish Person that I voted No to every single european treaty so far because it is down to the EU that the Country is the way it is.

shinfujiwara

ron2010 wrote: »

No your wrong. What our ancestors did means everything. we are who we are because of them and we are here today because of them.

There are plenty of people in terrible situations all over the world but they don't all get up and walk away. They stick it out.

A lot of my grandparents etc were born into extreme poverty and struggled to put meals on the table but they stuck it out.

Ireland to me isn't just another place on a map that means nothing. It's my home and is a part of me.

You see a lot of people with influence including the Irish Government are turning it into some sort of multicultural centre where in years and years to come the Irish People as a race will cease to exist.

Maybe my way of thinking is wrong but I can't help feeling the way I do.

And I have to say I am glad as an Irish Person that I voted No to every single european treaty so far because it is down to the EU that the Country is the way it is.

Be glad is different to feel proud or special because of what people did in the past.

Let's say that some years ago Brazil was an amazing place to live, just wonderful. And then you travel to the past with a high-tech high-def television showing your grandparents that they could live a WONDERFUL life in this place called Brazil, that there was nothing to fear about it, they could bring any one they want. Any irish citizen could just land in that wonderful place in the same day and do whatever they wanted with their lives. You showed them that in that place was just bliss all the time.

I can assure you, they would definitely travel to this hypothetical place now that they have the knowledge and feel confident to do so. If they were living in such a bad condition, they would. It's nothing about nationalities, it's just kindness to your family and yourself. There is no reason to suffer if you have the opportunity not to.

So when you say "There are plenty of people in terrible situations all over the world but they don't all get up and walk away. They stick it out." I agree. But you need to understand that they do this because of the lack of knowledge. Most of my friends when I say to them that I'm probably going to Ireland next year, they get shocked. They don't know where Ireland is, they don't know how good life is compared to theirs, they don't know the language, don't know absolutely nothing! Some of them actually thought that we could even die of freezing. They think that you guys are Iceland or something, and they don't even consider that you might have heating in your homes, because this is luxury stuff here. The reality is, if you don't die in some places here with -5 degrees Celsius without even proper clothes, why would someone die in there? They don't even know that they would be able to talk with me through the Internet if they wanted to. Because they don't know the technology or at least they don't understand that the "inter"net is an international thing. A few years ago I didn't knew any person who had internet access at home, not personally.

About "Irish race" that you talk about, for me it is nothing more than a human being. I feel about them the same thing that I feel about every human being. And you feel that way about "your people", because you just happened to be born in there, and even further, it's a good place to live. Another people could say "I hate that irishmen, I love my country and it's history." Wouldn't be better if anyone accepted that they are all the same race? What changes are the cultural aspects, geographical aspects, the historical events in that place. And none of those things had anything to do with you and me. Could be Ireland the place that a grown up man rapes an underage girl and feel proud of it, and Brazil the place that people enjoy The Dubliners's songs in a pub.

I would be probably be very "glad" (not proud) if I had been born in Ireland, that's what the odds say. Why? Because by our definition of today, this region has a great quality of life. I know this "quality of life" thing could sound boring and even meaningless. But I can assure you that if does, it's because the meaning of it is much stronger or weaker depending on how much of it did you witness.

Some days ago, while I was here enjoying some Playstation 3 game, some girl was screaming in the streets at night around here. Probably being raped because it's completely normal around here, I know many women who have been raped. Probably no one did nothing. I think the fact that Brazil has a immense social gap in its society helped me to have this wider perception of the world. Why while I'm here playing some Playstation 3 a women is being raped not far from here? Why many of my relatives had to die because of very poor medical assistance? Why a friend of mine around here has to work 7 days a week, more than 12 hours a day, just to be simply "able" to live? While you guys can relatively easily have a good education and superior education, an average person here would need a life time to do that.

This **** your mind you know? No one in sane condition would feel proud or glad because of that. But I just happened to be born here, it was just an "accident of birth". Could have been born in a even worse place. But I also could have born in Denmark. Why would someone have this emotional bond with only a specific land and what people did 500 years ago in this land, is something that is completely beyond my understanding capabilities. For me it is in fact just math.

So try to imagine yourself in a reality like that, would you be proud of it and stick with it no matter what? Because you would suffer and cut all the possibilities of you and any person related to you be able to be happy and health. Maybe 5 of you today, then more 5 and so on and on till 2230 or something. If someone related to me many years ago had the opportunity of get out of Brazil back in that time, to have a life in England for example, but didn't want it so he would be able to "stick with his people" (brazilians, not family). Then when I was 12 I wouldn't need to enter in my school with a weapon to defend myself. I wouldn't almost have died because of a gun fight in that time too. My mother would have a good health now. I would be able to live normally with my wife and even have kids, without any help of my family. Because if my father dies today, I would be selling this laptop in a goddamn minute, I can guarantee you that. Wouldn't have any second to cry.

You get my point now? This thing of "I belong to this land and i'll be here with my comrades" is amazingly cool and beautiful. Boy, I never miss this kind of part in a movie like Braveheart or something. But it is just a romantic stuff. If you really could do some bravery that would save your family and many others, I believe most people would do. But one man alone doesn't change anything, this is movie stuff. If it was real, people in Africa and here in South America for example, wouldn't suffer. They would just stick with their few comrades and solve all the problems.

But in reality, all that I would be able to do, is to try to live a normal life. And when I reached the age of 50, I would be dead inside already, filled with regret as many people here who have some knowledge, already are. That's why I said to you guys, that it is probably impossible for your country to "get rid" of immigrants. I understand that this could be unpleasant, many of the immigrants had a ****e life, bad education in every way possible. Criminal rates rising, over population, all this stuff must "suck". But this is normal, people running from their bad reality.

If you guys want to prevent this, you will probably need to make pressure on your government till they assume a really severe posture about immigration. That's the only way, I think. If this is the right thing to do or not, is beyond my knowledge. I hope you think about what I said, and don't feel offended by my posts. That's just how I truly feel.

jamimon

Seriously do you really think that those heroic stories will even exist nowaday? If you want to "stick it out" be my guest, I would rather find an easy way out. This problem exist not just in Ireland. Let say you live in the poverty as Ireland faced before, not in 2010, like the above post, would I not say the same to you? Why don't you hold my passport for a year, and see how people treat you. I'm sure you'll love it. We only do things for our selfish reason, and this is one of the selfish thought. But I'm not against it, somewhat I will embrace it. I would provide some entertainment for me and see how society will respond to it. Yes we can all be common and love each other and get rid of the word "race" forever. That's not going to happen. Like above post, we can only hope to have normal life. We're stuck in between, like it or not. You can be the next hero if you want. Maybe your name will be in the history book, and everyone will know you. I rather have my name on Forbes 100 Rich list and be forgotten in a week.

Nodin

ron2010 wrote: »

You see a lot of people with influence including the Irish Government are turning it into some sort of multicultural centre where in years and years to come the Irish People as a race will cease to exist.

We aren't a race.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

We aren't a race.

many would disagree with you

–noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.

–noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=Y91ZHuZLCyAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=story+of+the+irish+race&source=bl&ots=87Ul4CFKu6&sig=fDrT_yw0ZWs1GugZ_VGhp0JnzCY&hl=en&ei=FC6GTNOPJdWI4Qbdx43SBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false


An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and a tradition of common ancestry (corresponding to a history of endogamy).[1][2] [3][4]
Members of an ethnic group are conscious of belonging to an ethnic group; moreover ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness.[5][6]

southsiderosie

ron2010 wrote: »

No your wrong. What our ancestors did means everything. we are who we are because of them and we are here today because of them.

There are plenty of people in terrible situations all over the world but they don't all get up and walk away. They stick it out.

A lot of my grandparents etc were born into extreme poverty and struggled to put meals on the table but they stuck it out.

Ireland to me isn't just another place on a map that means nothing. It's my home and is a part of me.

You see a lot of people with influence including the Irish Government are turning it into some sort of multicultural centre where in years and years to come the Irish People as a race will cease to exist.

Maybe my way of thinking is wrong but I can't help feeling the way I do.

And I have to say I am glad as an Irish Person that I voted No to every single european treaty so far because it is down to the EU that the Country is the way it is.

I think you're missing the point that the ability of people to "stick it out" in Ireland is strongly tied to the willingness of many hundreds of thousands of other Irish people to leave. As miserable as much of the 19th and 20th century was for people living in Ireland, it would have been much, MUCH worse had so many people not emigrated.

I also think blaming the EU for Ireland's current problems is ridiculous. The EU didn't make the government triple its budget over the last 20 years, the EU didn't introduce benchmarking, the EU didn't create NAMA, the EU didn't make the laws that allow people to claim the dole from now to eternity, and the EU did not make the Irish government agree to allow Eastern Europeans immediate access to its labor market in 2004 (and it was only one of three member states who did so). ALL of these policies were enacted by the IRISH government, elected by IRISH people.

Finally, saying that Irish people as a race will cease to exist is patently ridiculous.

jamimon

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think you're missing the point that the ability of people to "stick it out" in Ireland is strongly tied to the willingness of many hundreds of thousands of other Irish people to leave. As miserable as much of the 19th and 20th century was for people living in Ireland, it would have been much, MUCH worse had so many people not emigrated.

I also think blaming the EU for Ireland's current problems is ridiculous. The EU didn't make the government triple its budget over the last 20 years, the EU didn't introduce benchmarking, the EU didn't create NAMA, the EU didn't make the laws that allow people to claim the dole from now to eternity, and the EU did not make the Irish government agree to allow Eastern Europeans immediate access to its labor market in 2004 (and it was only one of three member states who did so). ALL of these policies were enacted by the IRISH government, elected by IRISH people.

Finally, saying that Irish people as a race will cease to exist is patently ridiculous.

You sir are the smartest person I've ever met.

southsiderosie

jamimon wrote: »

You sir ma'am are the smartest person I've ever met. Now most of the Irish wanted to be independent, I really want to see how is that going to turn out without the help from the EU.

FYP

shinfujiwara

Wikipedia says there are around 80 millions of irish descendants on our world today

The possibility of your culture to die anytime soon, seems almost inexistant to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people

View

ron2010 wrote: »

Personally I dont consider foreign people with Irish Citizenship Irish.

A person with Irish citizenship is Irish. Hence, they are not foreign.

It doesn't depend on your or my personal beliefs but rather on the laws of the land.