Cat License

morganafay

I don't mind too much if they do bring in the legislation. It'd be good in some cases, for the cat's welfare especially. But then bad in some ways for the cat's welfare if people can't let the cat go outside at all. The cats would be fine, but will be a bit pissed off about it . . . they'd be happier outside. But they'd cope inside . . .

I'm in favour of it for the cat's good (stopping them getting knocked down, catching diseases, mating with random other cats, fighting), but I really don't care much about other reasons like poohing in gardens. Sorry, but it just doesn't bother me at all, don't think it's a huge deal.

crotalus667

STForSale wrote: »

I think there are many good reasons to license cat's, few not to and I believe it will happen sooner than people think.

here is the real questen should we licence the owner ???

morganafay

STForSale wrote: »

I think there are many good reasons to license cat's, few not to and I believe it will happen sooner than people think.

Best reason not to is because cats like being outdoors and they'd be happier and healthier. Can't think of many other reasons to let them outdoors.

crotalus667

morganafay wrote: »

but I really don't care much about other reasons like poohing in gardens. Sorry, but it just doesn't bother me at all, don't think it's a huge deal.

cool I'll be over with my dog to poo in your garden every day so :rolleyes:

crotalus667

morganafay wrote: »

Best reason not to is because cats like being outdoors and they'd be happier .

you could say the same about dog's snakes and bears

adser53

cats should be licenced and their should be laws set out for the control of cats. If anyone can seriously give me a legitimate reason for allowing cats to roam then please share it. And before anyone says "because they're cats" thats not a valid reason. Yes implementing it would be very difficult but aside from that what arguements are there against it? I wouldve thought cat lovers would like the idea of a law that promotes responsible ownership, cat safety and reduces the number of unwanted cats/kittens that are put to sleep. But this law will have to cover rooaming cats and pooping. I would think its a small price to pay and it's one that dog owners pay everyday. I disagree with the restricted breeds law, the operation of the pounds and wardens, outdated animal welfare laws etc but I abide by them regardless of my opinion

adser53

and the cats don't have to be kept inside, make a cat enclosure like dogs owners do and let them out in it or make your garden secure so they cant get out. Again, like dog owners do (and are required to by law)

morganafay

crotalus667 wrote: »

you could say the same about dog's snakes and bears

I do! Dogs, snakes and bears should all be let outside. Dogs usually are, and bears are in zoos. Obviously if snakes are not in their natural climate and all, then they need to be indoors. I said cats should be left outside, not left roam. But it's very hard to keep cats in your garden. It would be great if everyone could fence in their entire garden with a fence that cats couldn't get over.

morganafay

adser53 wrote: »

and the cats don't have to be kept inside, make a cat enclosure like dogs owners do and let them out in it or make your garden secure so they cant get out. Again, like dog owners do (and are required to by law)

My reason for them being left outside if that they'll be happier and healthier the majority of the time. I think it's a great reason. I've had indoor cats, outdoor cats, and indoor/outdoor cats, and the happiest in my opinion are ones that are left indoors and outdoors when they choose (indoors at night is safer though).

I wish everyone could make their gardens secure enough for cats, but it's pretty hard to do and most people won't do it. I will when I have my own house, but right now I can't.

adser53

but all animals would be happier roaming free so in the spirit of equality and accountablity it's not right to let cats roam for that reason alone. I'd love to let my dogs run around on the big green out front thats 50 times the size of my garden and im sure theyd love it but that doesnt make it right

neelyohara

STForSale wrote: »

It is not a myth, contact with cat's feces IS a cause of toxoplasmosis infection if the cat is carrying the disease.

STForSale wrote: »

Yes but there is no raw meat in my garden, nor is their animal droppings of any other variety other than cats.
The only risk of a member of my family contracting toxoplasmosis is from the
ample amounts of cat 5hit in my garden that the neighbourhood cats deposit on a daily basis.

The 'raw meat' in question isn't a case of a person (or animal) chowing down on a bloody raw steak. It refers to undercooked meat, the transfer of the parasite while you are cooking and handling the meat... not properly cleaning utensils or food preparation areas.

If you eat meat or live in a house where meat is prepared as part of the meal then you are at risk of toxoplasmosis.

The parasite is found in cat feces and in the muscles of animals bred for human consumption (and rats and birds). The reason the parasite is found in cat feces is because cats are hosts, how do they become hosts? They eat (or bite) animals carrying the parasite.

Humans catch toxoplasmosis through various routes - as listed above they may catch it (exactly like food poisoning) from meat bought for their consumption, through goats milk, they can catch it through poor personal hygiene and hand washing IF they were in contact with cat (or pup) feces or it can be passed through the womb.

Dogs can catch Toxoplasmosis by eating raw meat or bones (or undercooked meat). How many people buy bones/pigs ears for their dogs? Or get bones from a butcher?

If your animal has toxoplasmosis you will not necessarily catch it if you are careful with your hygiene - many animals who catch it are treated with antibiotics via your vet as you would with any other infection.

Of all the ways I can be infected which are the most common? What is the most likely cause of infection? That I ate undercooked meat? Perhaps I like my meat to be rare. Maybe I prepared meat for cooking without following basic food safety? Perhaps I drank goats milk? Or that I was gardening/cleaning the cat litter tray and touched soil contaminated with cat feces and then touched my mouth?

Given the wide range of sources of infection I think it is very narrow minded (and dangerous) to refuse to accept that you really can't confirm where an infection came from. When I say it's dangerous I mean we have all seen the reputation some animals (say restrictive breeds) can get when people shout loud enough.

20goto10

neelyohara wrote: »

The 'raw meat' in question isn't a case of a person (or animal) chowing down on a bloody raw steak. It refers to undercooked meat, the transfer of the parasite while you are cooking and handling the meat... not properly cleaning utensils or food preparation areas.

If you eat meat or live in a house where meat is prepared as part of the meal then you are at risk of toxoplasmosis.

The parasite is found in cat feces and in the muscles of animals bred for human consumption (and rats and birds). The reason the parasite is found in cat feces is because cats are hosts, how do they become hosts? They eat (or bite) animals carrying the parasite.

Humans catch toxoplasmosis through various routes - as listed above they may catch it (exactly like food poisoning) from meat bought for their consumption, through goats milk, they can catch it through poor personal hygiene and hand washing IF they were in contact with cat (or pup) feces or it can be passed through the womb.

Dogs can catch Toxoplasmosis by eating raw meat or bones (or undercooked meat). How many people buy bones/pigs ears for their dogs? Or get bones from a butcher?

If your animal has toxoplasmosis you will not necessarily catch it if you are careful with your hygiene - many animals who catch it are treated with antibiotics via your vet as you would with any other infection.

Of all the ways I can be infected which are the most common? What is the most likely cause of infection? That I ate undercooked meat? Perhaps I like my meat to be rare. Maybe I prepared meat for cooking without following basic food safety? Perhaps I drank goats milk? Or that I was gardening/cleaning the cat litter tray and touched soil contaminated with cat feces and then touched my mouth?

Given the wide range of sources of infection I think it is very narrow minded (and dangerous) to refuse to accept that you really can't confirm where an infection came from. When I say it's dangerous I mean we have all seen the reputation some animals (say restrictive breeds) can get when people shout loud enough.

I don't think either side can argue with that. That's pretty much argument over if u ask me.

neelyohara

Ok, in trying to turn this into a positive and possibly useful thread how do people suggest cats are contained (be it in a house or in a garden).

Everyone can admit that the number one problem with cats is that if they get out they can bolt. The last thing you see is a tail disappearing over a wall. Their agility means they can make a very quick getaway in such a way that following or catching them is impossible.

If a dog gets loose you can chase it... a dog will rarely hop over a high wall, scale a roof, run along guttering before disappearing beneath bushes. At least with a dog you can run after it (screaming manically) while it gleefully ignores you and bolts for the hills.

How do you cat-proof your garden? If you have a cat how do you restrict it to your garden and if you don't have a cat, and you don't want them in your garden, how do you keep them out?

(I'm currently plagued by a neighbours unvaccinated, unneutered, half starved tom cat... it is actually causing my own neutered tom to spray inside the house, something he never done ).

I am very interested to hear from cat owners who have indoor cats (100% of the time). How do you manage to keep the cats indoors? For me summer means open doors and open windows in a house with a garden. My only knowledge of indoor cats are from people living in apartments with/without balconies or (and especially across the pond) air-conditioning.

PCros

neelyohara wrote: »

I am very interested to hear from cat owners who have indoor cats (100% of the time). How do you manage to keep the cats indoors? For me summer means open doors and open windows in a house with a garden. My only knowledge of indoor cats are from people living in apartments with/without balconies or (and especially across the pond) air-conditioning.

We keep ours in because its very busy traffic wise around where we are and there are alot of strays around aswell.

What we use on the windows is the clipsafe locks that open a certain amount basically made for toddlers etc.

morganafay

crotalus667 wrote: »

cool I'll be over with my dog to poo in your garden every day so :rolleyes:

Yeah I wouldn't mind, since I have so much dog to clean up anyway :rolleyes:

Sorry, I'm sure it's annoying. Not something that would bother me, but I see why you'd be annoyed. If it's in a flower bed then I wouldn't care, which I assume a cat would always go in a flower bed? Mine would anyway, and any cats I've ever known. My dogs go on the concrete, everywhere! Not even in one corner, even in the shed if it's raining, crazy dogs.

morganafay

Originally Posted by STForSale View Post
Yes but there is no raw meat in my garden, nor is their animal droppings of any other variety other than cats.

There must be other animal droppings in your garden. Birds at least. If there aren't rats or mice (they're almost everywhere). At least there is the chance of them.

Orla K

neelyohara wrote: »

I am very interested to hear from cat owners who have indoor cats (100% of the time). How do you manage to keep the cats indoors? For me summer means open doors and open windows in a house with a garden. My only knowledge of indoor cats are from people living in apartments with/without balconies or (and especially across the pond) air-conditioning.

My cat is 100% indoor. I'm happier with it that way mainly because there are some messed up people out there. He was straying for years when I got him and was probably abused, so once he got inside my place he hasn't willingly left. He's too afraid to go outside but, lately there's been a female in heat outside and while he wants to go to her, he's still too afraid to go out. Twice I brought him out carrying him(too afraid to jump out of my arms) only for a minute or two, he seems to be a little calmer after it.
So the only way I have a cat who's happy to be indoor all the time is because some guy probably did something like kick him in the face breaking his two top canine teeth and leaving him in pain for years while they rotted in his head(the vet wasn't even able to pull them out they were that bad)

morganafay

Orla K wrote: »

My cat is 100% indoor. I'm happier with it that way mainly because there are some messed up people out there. He was straying for years when I got him and was probably abused, so once he got inside my place he hasn't willingly left. He's too afraid to go outside but, lately there's been a female in heat outside and while he wants to go to her, he's still too afraid to go out. Twice I brought him out carrying him(too afraid to jump out of my arms) only for a minute or two, he seems to be a little calmer after it.
So the only way I have a cat who's happy to be indoor all the time is because some guy probably did something like kick him in the face breaking his two top canine teeth and leaving him in pain for years while they rotted in his head(the vet wasn't even able to pull them out they were that bad)

Aww, poor kitty. That's great that he's happy inside though. I have one cat who loves being in and he spends nearly all day and night inside. He goes out to go to the toilet since that's what he's used to, and I try to encourage him to go out on nice days for a while (and to go see his second owner, an old lady up the road!). The others like coming in for a cuddle, but want to go out for most of the day.

I had an indoor only cat before though (I lived in Dublin, then moved home to the country) and he was mad to get out all the time. We couldn't even leave a window open. Eventually I just let him live outside (I was worried about him going out, but my parents made me anyway) and it was the best thing we could have done for him. He was just a lonely hyperactive cat indoors, and happy outdoors. (And he had been indoors since 8 weeks old.) So it's different for every cat. Some will never like being indoors.

Wile E. Coyote

To all the posters calling for cat licences. What exactly do you think it would achieve?

Dog licences don't stop dogs roaming free, barking all day and night, biting people or sh*ting all over playing fields and footpaths. So why do you think a cat licence would be any different?

crotalus667

morganafay wrote: »

which I assume a cat would always go in a flower bed? .

you asume wrong they will go anywhere

20goto10

Orla K wrote: »

My cat is 100% indoor. I'm happier with it that way mainly because there are some messed up people out there. He was straying for years when I got him and was probably abused, so once he got inside my place he hasn't willingly left. He's too afraid to go outside but, lately there's been a female in heat outside and while he wants to go to her, he's still too afraid to go out. Twice I brought him out carrying him(too afraid to jump out of my arms) only for a minute or two, he seems to be a little calmer after it.
So the only way I have a cat who's happy to be indoor all the time is because some guy probably did something like kick him in the face breaking his two top canine teeth and leaving him in pain for years while they rotted in his head(the vet wasn't even able to pull them out they were that bad)

He probably shat in someones garden.

Orla K

20goto10 wrote: »

He probably shat in someones garden.

I doubt it, he had an entire park as his toilet and even if he did he did not deserve to have his teeth broken and then left to rot into brittle stubs.

lrushe

If cat licenses came into law tomorrow I would get one like I do for my dogs but I will never keep my cat indoors as I don't think it would be fair to her the same way I don't think it's fair to muzzle my restricted breed so I don't. I will follow the law as much as I can where my animals are concerned but when it interferes with their welfare I draw the line and I do think keeping my cat confined is interfering with my cats welfare (can't speak for anyone elses animals).
Why should a cat be allowed to roam and not a dog? Cats and dogs are like comparing apples and oranges, simply because cats were never domesticated to the same extent as dogs, they never fully lost their independance or wildness and that's where they differ from dogs the most and why they suffer more from being confined.
My cat goes to the toilet in my garden so I know I don't inflict that on my neighbours. As for them annoying dogs and making them bark, I think this is weak argument, do you stop a bird from landing on your garden wall, do you stop your neighbours climbing up ladders to clean their windows or paint their house just so your dog isn't annoyed, no, your dog can't live in a bubble it's going to experience things that might make it bark, its up to you to socialise and train your dogs to ignore distractions and obey you when you ask them to stop barking.

morganafay

crotalus667 wrote: »

you asume wrong they will go anywhere

I've had about a hundred cats, no exaggeration. They didn't go anywhere. They went in earth and buried it. They never went on the grass or concrete or anywhere, none of them. Neither have any of the straying tom cats around over the years.

morganafay

lrushe wrote: »

If cat licenses came into law tomorrow I would get one like I do for my dogs but I will never keep my cat indoors as I don't think it would be fair to her the same way I don't think it's fair to muzzle my restricted breed so I don't. I will follow the law as much as I can where my animals are concerned but when it interferes with their welfare I draw the line and I do think keeping my cat confined is interfering with my cats welfare (can't speak for anyone elses animals).
Why should a cat be allowed to roam and not a dog? Cats and dogs are like comparing apples and oranges, simply because cats were never domesticated to the same extent as dogs, they never fully lost their independance or wildness and that's where they differ from dogs the most and why they suffer more from being confined.
My cat goes to the toilet in my garden so I know I don't inflict that on my neighbours. As for them annoying dogs and making them bark, I think this is weak argument, do you stop a bird from landing on your garden wall, do you stop your neighbours climbing up ladders to clean their windows or paint their house just so your dog isn't annoyed, no, your dog can't live in a bubble it's going to experience things that might make it bark, its up to you to socialise and train your dogs to ignore distractions and obey you when you ask them to stop barking.

I couldn't have said it better. This is exactly what I think too!

crotalus667

morganafay wrote: »

I've had about a hundred cats, no exaggeration. They didn't go anywhere. They went in earth and buried it. They never went on the grass or concrete or anywhere, none of them. Neither have any of the straying tom cats around over the years.

the ones that infest my grandmothers garden go any where the feel like

adser53

lrushe wrote: »

As for them annoying dogs and making them bark, I think this is weak argument, do you stop a bird from landing on your garden wall, do you stop your neighbours climbing up ladders to clean their windows or paint their house just so your dog isn't annoyed, no, your dog can't live in a bubble it's going to experience things that might make it bark, its up to you to socialise and train your dogs to ignore distractions and obey you when you ask them to stop barking.

Sorry I'll stop you there. My dogs do bark at the odd bird that lands in the garden or occasionally if STRANGERS go near my back gate or near the neighbours house. They're environmental variables, random occurences or whatever you want to call it and they are very infrequent. A group of pest-cats coming into my garden annoying them daily from safe vantage points is nothing but a nuisance! Thats a HUUUUGE difference to what you're talking about and tbh I find it silly to compare the 2. I wouldnt mind if the cats were walking by minding their own business but they arent.

To the poster who asked what cat licences would accomplish, I'll say only 2 words... Accountability and responsibilty! Yes there are problems with irresponsible dog owners letting them poop and roam in public, no one denies that BUT if they are caught they can be held accountable. The likelihood of thrm being caught unfortunatlly is quite low

John Mason

there are 3 cats around my house all the time, i have seen them fighting on the bonnet of my car and i seen the scratches afterwards. thats fantastic that they dont damage YOUR car but they are destroying MY car.

so lets see what else i have had to put up with -

there was the cat vomit on my kitchen windowsill - i was charmed and delighted to come home from work and find a half digested chicken regurgitated on the windowsill. it really made my day.


then there was my beautiful woodpigeon, half chewed up and left in the middle of the grass with feathers everywhere - i cried when i seen this. he had been visiting me since he was little with his parents

all my newly planted flower pots were dug up and the pots used as a litter tray - had to bin them.

i planted onions and garlic because i heard cats dont like them, got up one morning to the cat digging them up and eating them.

i can no longer grow veg in my garden, because of the poo - i have had to put my strawberries in hanging baskets to keep them from shtting on them, and it looks like the lettuces are going to have to that way.

i had to bin my potatoes last year because of the cat poo

no matter what i do, i cant keep them out of the shed, which smells of ....i dont know but it is horrible plus the fact when i open the shed door they jump out at me.

i now have a tom spraying my garden - the smell is really, truly delightful

i am afraid to keep my back door or windows open, as they have come in to the house before

they are terrorizing me in my own home but as long as the cat owners are happy, what does my quality of life or happiness matter

i live in a terraced house, with a small'ish garden, i love to garden and it is one of the reasons i bought my house but i can no longer use my garden and this makes we sad but as long as everyone else is happy what difference does it make

TooManyDogs

irishbird wrote: »

they are terrorizing me in my own home but as long as the cat owners are happy, what does my quality of life or happiness matter

I think that's the point, the majority of cat owners just don't care.

My neighbour always lets her cats roam, and one particular cat visits my garden every day, despite the 6 dogs I have, and despite the fact that they chase this cat and catch it on a regular basis. It's been lucky so far that I've been at home when they've caught it and I've made the dogs let it go but one of these days I won't be home and the cat won't be so lucky. It really upsets me when they catch the cat, while I know my dogs are behaving naturally I don't want any living creature hurt, never mind on my property and the neighbour simply will not keep the cat inside.

The Sweeper

morganafay wrote: »

I've had about a hundred cats, no exaggeration.

What happened to them all?