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Huge Corrib trout

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    #62
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Chuileog wrote: »
    I don't know but I would like to think that it's a cannibal brown and that their
    is a difference.

    What are the isually recognisable differences between a ferox and a large brown? More silvery appearance, large head?


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    #63
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    Chuileog wrote: »
    I don't know but I would like to think that it's a cannibal brown and that their
    is a difference.

    I am just a humble angler and not a fish expert or scientist, but it sure does look like a ferox to me although it is hard to tell, from what i have read brown trout don’t tend to get that big, do they? I think he got the fish in very deep water aren’t the ferox found in deep water or close to it? Was Mr Mears national record trout from Lough Ennell a ferox or a brownie?? who knows………..that lough doesn’t contain Ferox now as far as I am aware, but it may have back then in 1894. The draining in the 1970s made a goolies out of it and wiped out a lot of wild trout. …..15lbs 2oz record brown trout caught on Sheelin 1st of March and it doesn’t contain ferox, so the corrib trout could be a very very big brownie……but I still think that is unlikely as it has the head and colouration of a ferox


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    #64
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    as far as the guys on the flyforums.co.uk say.... you can only tell if it is a ferox if you have a DNA kit....

    but ya know ...

    if a fish is that big ... it eats fish... and the word ferox means fierce... so ... what do fierce fish eat? ... FISH... primarily....

    so lets just call any very large trout for a specific lake or river a ferox...

    just cus some scientist decided to brand the word FEROX on his specific DNA

    must say the Victorians had great DNA kits in those days.... LMAO:D


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    #65
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    as far as the guys on the flyforums.co.uk say.... you can only tell if it is a ferox if you have a DNA kit....

    but ya know ...

    if a fish is that big ... it eats fish... and the word ferox means fierce... so ... what do fierce fish eat? ... FISH... primarily....

    so lets just call any very large trout for a specific lake or river a ferox...

    just cus some scientist decided to brand the word FEROX on his specific DNA

    must say the Victorians had great DNA kits in those days.... LMAO:D

    A shark is also a big fish that eats fish. But you're right, evidence based on reality can be misleading.


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    #66
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    fontanalis wrote: »
    A shark is also a big fish that eats fish. But you're right, evidence based on reality can be misleading.

    the point im trying to make is the word ferox is referred to a wild trout that is very big for a location..... as it eats fish primarily.. to grow that big... therefore ... any very large trout for a specific area.... is a ferox ... as it took years to grow that big ... and as the scientist would say... ( trout that have the DNA / Ferox strain live longer... so they can grow very big....
    so would you not agree that that the fish in the photo is a ferox...


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    #67
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Trout that eat fish are pisciverous but not all pisciverous trout are ferox. Ferox have a distinct genetic lineage than other brown trout.
    You started a freak show on fly forums so i'm not going to bother with this anymore.


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    #68
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Trout that eat fish are pisciverous but not all pisciverous trout are ferox. Ferox have a distinct genetic lineage than other brown trout.
    You started a freak show on fly forums so i'm not going to bother with this anymore.

    i agree there were plenty of freaks on show there...:D

    my point being that a corrib trout grows a pound or so a year ... therefore a wild trout feeding in the wild that is over 10lb is 10 years +... therefore it is a ferox as normal trout do not live that long....:)

    obviously different growth rates for different locations...

    by the way what was your ID on the flyforums...?????? would you like to introduce yourself????

    well i would have never gone onto the flyforums until the C&R fanatics sent there views my way to my youtube account ... sure here is a C&R vid

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu2HQvY2C5A

    chat soon,

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DryFlyFishing


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    #69
    Auldloon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Auldloon


    Its great we have an expert here with all the facts:rolleyes: I came back into this thread to try and drag it away from the off topic debate that was happening and now it looks like we are going to have another slagging match about flyforums.
    I for one cant be arsed.

    Dont feed the troll lads.


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    #70
    Octopus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭Octopus


    This thread has gone from a picture of a fish to the pro's and con's of C&R to a debate on the greens and the anti's to the fish again to a debate on what is a ferox to what someone said about something on another forum.

    I think this thread has run it's course.


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    #71
    stylie
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    the point im trying to make is the word ferox is referred to a wild trout that is very big for a location..... as it eats fish primarily.. to grow that big... therefore ... any very large trout for a specific area.... is a ferox ... as it took years to grow that big ... and as the scientist would say... ( trout that have the DNA / Ferox strain live longer... so they can grow very big....
    so would you not agree that that the fish in the photo is a ferox...

    Ferox is a name thats not simply referred to a wild trout that has grown large for its location. They traditionally are deep water strain of long lived trout that feed on Char.

    Would you classify the recent Sheelin trout as a Ferox ?
    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    i agree there were plenty of freaks on show there...

    my point being that a corrib trout grows a pound or so a year ... therefore a wild trout feeding in the wild that is over 10lb is 10 years +... therefore it is a ferox as normal trout do not live that long....

    obviously different growth rates for different locations...

    Where are you getting that from ?


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    #72
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    stylie wrote: »
    Ferox is a name thats not simply referred to a wild trout that has grown large for its location. They traditionally are deep water strain of long lived trout that feed on Char.

    Would you classify the recent Sheelin trout as a Ferox ?



    Where are you getting that from ?

    Lough Sheelin is a stocky lake... fish may or may not be a ferox... the fish may have been stocked/ introduced at a large size and young age.. or there is a huge amount of food in sheelin.... but i dout that if it was pure wild fed is less than 10+years.... so it might be a ferox...

    char lakes are a different location to the corrib... you can not be serious comparing a char lake to the corrib?????

    i am getting my information from experience.... there are plenty of people who would say the same.....

    anyway ask the guy who caught it for a scale and we all get it DNA tested... there is probably one on his net or rod...or in the boat... the scale should be the size of a font 28 O in ms-word in fine screen resolution


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    #73
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    Lough Sheelin is a stocky lake... fish may or may not be a ferox... the fish may have been stocked/ introduced at a large size and young age.. or there is a huge amount of food in sheelin.... but i dout that if it was pure wild fed is less than 10+years.... so it might be a ferox...

    char lakes are a different location to the corrib... you can not be serious comparing a char lake to the corrib?????

    i am getting my information from experience.... there are plenty of people who would say the same.....

    anyway ask the guy who caught it for a scale and we all get it DNA tested... there is probably one on his net or rod...or in the boat... the scale should be the size of a font 28 O in ms-word in fine screen resolution

    bunkum..........


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    #74
    stylie
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    Lough Sheelin is a stocky lake... fish may or may not be a ferox... the fish may have been stocked/ introduced at a large size and young age.. or there is a huge amount of food in sheelin.... but i dout that if it was pure wild fed is less than 10+years.... so it might be a ferox...

    char lakes are a different location to the corrib... you can not be serious comparing a char lake to the corrib?????

    i am getting my information from experience.... there are plenty of people who would say the same.....

    anyway ask the guy who caught it for a scale and we all get it DNA tested... there is probably one on his net or rod...or in the boat... the scale should be the size of a font 28 O in ms-word in fine screen resolution

    So the Sheelin record might now be a stockie ?

    You do know Corrib had a large Char population dont you ? and are only thought to be extinct in and around the Roach population explosion.

    So you are getting your 1year = 1pound from experience ? have you had many 10lb plus trout to get the scale readings from ?
    In fact besides trolling on forums have you caught any large trout trolling in Ireland ?


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    #75
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    stylie wrote: »
    So the Sheelin record might now be a stockie ?

    You do know Corrib had a large Char population dont you ? and are only thought to be extinct in and around the Roach population explosion.

    So you are getting your 1year = 1pound from experience ? have you had many 10lb plus trout to get the scale readings from ?
    In fact besides trolling on forums have you caught any large trout trolling in Ireland ?


    when i said char lake i was referring to highland lakes... not low land lake... the worlds climates has changed...corribs climate is totally different now. Do you not think that climate is the reason for the decimation of the char population...?

    for some reason if i dont agree with you im called a troll??? when in fact im just having a reasonable conversation.... ???

    or do you not believe in man made climate change...???????????????[

    i catch my large trout Dry Fly... by the way it is you who is trolling for a reaction from me...... i suggest you take out a fly rod next time you might hook me

    by the way its great weather we are having at the moment lol...

    we will all be fishing in june on the mayfly.... i think ill call them junefly... for the next 3-4 years then julyfly..there after...


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    #76
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    .... char lakes are a different location to the corrib... you can not be serious comparing a char lake to the corrib?????
    ...

    DryFlyFishing, Corrib, and Mask are ferox-char lakes.
    The char in one were extirpated by enrichment in recent years, and are threatened in the other. But the ferox are in both and switched to eating pelagic roach since the char disappeared/are reduced in numbers.

    Ennell, where the record 26lb trout was caught was also a char lake at the time the big trout was caught. A 21 pounder was caught the same week. The loss of char and dredging out of the exit riverbeds (ferox spawning beds) and pollution by town sewage did for the ferox of Ennell. The trout stocks there today were regenerated from the fish spawned in the inflowing streams and 100% brownies, so in an immensely fertile Ennell we appear to get 5-8lbs fish today, even though they consume perch fry.

    The big trout that come from Ree and Derg (also glacial relict specie lakes because they have pollan) would be ferox. That's why they produce trout in the 15lbs sizes most years.

    Big "browns" (non ferox") in fertile Irish waters seem to only get up to 5-8lbs, and from 9lbs up to 12lbs rarely if crayfish or roach forage is exceptionally good, and trout numbers are sadly low. This is the case in Sheelin, and the big fish represents the pinnacle of many 9-12 pounders caught over the past few years since trout numbers dropped.

    Since the ova for stocked fish are taken from fish from the lakes to be stocked, stocking has little to do with it.


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    #77
    stylie
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    when i said char lake i was referring to highland lakes... not low land lake... the worlds climates has changed...corribs climate is totally different now. Do you not think that climate is the reason for the decimation of the char population...?

    for some reason if i dont agree with you im called a troll??? when in fact im just having a reasonable conversation.... ???

    or do you not believe in man made climate change...???????????????[

    i catch my large trout Dry Fly... by the way it is you who is trolling for a reaction from me...... i suggest you take out a fly rod next time you might hook me

    by the way its great weather we are having at the moment lol...

    we will all be fishing in june on the mayfly.... i think ill call them junefly... for the next 3-4 years then julyfly..there after...

    Seriously you think climate change being the reason the Char population in Corrib declined to the point of possible extinction ?

    Please tell me how climate change has done this ?

    I don't 'troll' you, if I did i would be replying to more of your threads, its just that when you are clearly making things up I have to respond.

    Mayfly, historically had their largest hatches on Corrib in the last week of May and first few weeks in June, if you choose to go over some of the old records you will see that its quite interesting the different times of year they have hatched.
    Some of the best hatchs I have seen on Corrib were in August.


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    #78
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    coolwings wrote: »
    DryFlyFishing, Corrib, and Mask are ferox-char lakes.
    The char in one were extirpated by enrichment in recent years, and are threatened in the other. But the ferox are in both and switched to eating pelagic roach since the char disappeared/are reduced in numbers.

    Ennell, where the record 26lb trout was caught was also a char lake at the time the big trout was caught. A 21 pounder was caught the same week. The loss of char and dredging out of the exit riverbeds (ferox spawning beds) and pollution by town sewage did for the ferox of Ennell. The trout stocks there today were regenerated from the fish spawned in the inflowing streams and 100% brownies, so in an immensely fertile Ennell we appear to get 5-8lbs fish today, even though they consume perch fry.

    The big trout that come from Ree and Derg (also glacial relict specie lakes because they have pollan) would be ferox. That's why they produce trout in the 15lbs sizes most years.

    Big "browns" (non ferox") in fertile Irish waters seem to only get up to 5-8lbs, and from 9lbs up to 12lbs rarely if crayfish or roach forage is exceptionally good, and trout numbers are sadly low. This is the case in Sheelin, and the big fish represents the pinnacle of many 9-12 pounders caught over the past few years since trout numbers dropped.

    Since the ova for stocked fish are taken from fish from the lakes to be stocked, stocking has little to do with it.

    Char Lake - Corrib was / Mask is

    stocking - odds are your only going to stock ordinary brownies...( decimated lakes - only have ordinary brownies in them)

    LB of trout - i totally agree - any fish15lb+ is a ferox if it was not stocked at a large size and young age into a lake with loads of easy food..

    the climate is getting colder... it will push the perch into the shallows..for food...for most of the year... reintroduce char into the corrib from mask in the next few years...
    ...


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    #79
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    ... - any fish15lb+ is a ferox if it was not stocked at a large size and young age into a lake with loads of easy food
    ...

    Well I doubt this one is. This trout is probably a fast growing brownie that had an exceptionally long life, approaching the lifespan of a ferox. But it is probably not a ferox.
    We get the same in people - most die between 50 and 90 but occasionally somewhere someone lives to 105.
    Brownies have a shorter longevity gene than ferox trout, usually 4-5 years. But there will still be natural variation within the brownies, and a very very few may live, and grow, for several years longer than is to be expected, maybe 7-9 years. These are the brownies that can be mistaken for ferox.
    Maybe they have some ferox in their ancestry from "a cross spawning" several generations back.

    I expect we will find that that particular trout was a long lived, piscivorous brownie of unusually long life.
    Tissue samples were taken from the 15lb Sheelin fish by fishery officers, and more will be known soon.


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    #80
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    was there any samples taken from the Corrib trout?


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    #81
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    stylie wrote: »

    Mayfly, historically had their largest hatches on Corrib in the last week of May and first few weeks in June, QUOTE]

    mayfly usualy was third week in may...

    previously it was end of may/june..and also first of may on some years

    Climate change????


    world war one & 2 and all the other wars... nuclear testing.. was the climate changing effects of the past... now it is over human population deforestation and all the food /animals we eat to grow our population and all the stuff we buy...

    sounds like we are the virus on this planet


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    #82
    stevoman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭stevoman


    stylie wrote: »
    Some of the local anglers are the biggest fish mongers on the lake, I emphasis some as I do know locals that care deeply for the lake, seems to be the older generation are quicker with the priest than the younger.

    Couldnt agree more. Theres an oul lad who fishes the lake that i do and hes there every night. Your allowed take one trout per nights fishing and he takes one every night. Its embedded into so many of the old folks that you have to smack them on the head when you catch them.

    its a sad way of thinking, but they wont be around forever.


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    #83
    stylie
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    stylie wrote: »

    Mayfly, historically had their largest hatches on Corrib in the last week of May and first few weeks in June, QUOTE]

    mayfly usualy was third week in may...

    previously it was end of may/june..and also first of may on some years

    Climate change????


    world war one & 2 and all the other wars... nuclear testing.. was the climate changing effects of the past... now it is over human population deforestation and all the food /animals we eat to grow our population and all the stuff we buy...

    sounds like we are the virus on this planet

    How is that even an answer to my question of how climate change led to the decline/extinction of Char in Corrib ?

    I will answer it myself I suppose, there is no link. Lakes deeper/shallower more North/South than Corrib have healthy char populations, climate change doesn't seem to affect them one bit.


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    #84
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    stylie wrote: »
    Seriously you think climate change being the reason the Char population in Corrib declined to the point of possible extinction ?

    Please tell me how climate change has done this ?

    I don't 'troll' you, if I did i would be replying to more of your threads, its just that when you are clearly making things up I have to respond.


    why dont you disprove my comment with your facts??

    lough corrib became a very warm lake for a good number of years... did it not???


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    #85
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    there are a few very deep spots on te corrib... has anyone put alot of time into trying to get char there..


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    #86
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    stylie wrote: »
    So the Sheelin record might now be a stockie ?

    there a lot of crap being spoken here, look at the pictures of the fish and to anyone who knows anything about Lough fishing it is clear that the Sheelin trout is (A) not a 'stockie' (B) not a ferox. Brown trout and Ferox are different strains always have been and always will be. Brown trout stockies dont have the ability to survive that long to get to that size i have never seen one make it to over over 5lbs and they are very rare that size.
    There are not that many stockies left in Sheelin the vast majority of fish being caught are wild trout. as a result of huge rehab work carried out by the LSTPA with little help from the SRFB i might add.

    coolwings your post about Ennell is 100% accurate. There probably were ferox there and the particular river they spawned in was turned into a ditch...so "bye bye mr ferox you have only been here since the ice age...now you can bugger off cause i dont like my fields flooding a bit in da winter........."

    dryflyfishing,,, no offence intended but a phrase worth considering, 'it is better to be thought a fool rather than open your mouth and prove it.........'


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    #87
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    ironbluedun wrote: »
    there a lot of crap being spoken here, '


    sorry for offending you and your lough sheelin...:) i know you fish it alot... but at the end of the day its a stocky bashing lake


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    #88
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    no offence; either way you have proved me correct.........;)


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    #89
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    ironbluedun wrote: »
    no offence; either way you have proved me correct.........;)

    do you not consider the fish that have been put into sheelin are stockys..?

    sure that lake was wiped out... so they are all stockys


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    #90
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    DryFlyFishing wrote: »
    do you not consider the fish that have been put into sheelin are stockys..?

    sure that lake was wiped out... so they are all stockys

    no and no again..........:D


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    #91
    DryFlyFishing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭DryFlyFishing


    what % wild trout survived the decimation in sheelin?


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