New and cool things you have learned recently

pog it

Well I thought we could help each other out with new stuff we have learned that is bringing on your Irish!

I learned that there are two meanings for 'méid', and that one is feminine and the other masculine.

'anraith'- soup; 'Anrath'- ill-luck.

Pattern for plural of nouns with similar endings in singular:

dochtúir - dochtúirí
pictiúr- pictiúir

Tenente

Tonn teasa = Heatwave. I'm being optomistic for a good summer ahead.

idir dhá tine Bealtine = idir dhá comhairle = in two minds about something. Literally between two May fires.

Rith sé liom = It ran with me = It occurred to me. (?)

Cad é an dara muiniu ar an focal "méid" le do thoil?

Ar aon chaoi, snáth an maith, dar liom.

pog it

Tenente wrote: »

Cad é an dara muiniu ar an focal "méid" le do thoil?

méid masc.= amount (and more: see Ó Dónaill's dict.)
méid fem.= size

I found that out when I heard a passage on 4fm with the sentence 'chuir sé feabhas agus méid ar an teach'

Krusader

Ar tháinig tú uirthi?, this got me laughing but I found out it means Did you see her, suppose in english we would say "come across her"

ag dul i + noun = noun + ag teacht ar ( they mean the same thing)
i.e. ag dul i bhfeabhas = feabhas ag teacht ar
getting better/improving

dambarude

pog it wrote: »

méid masc.= amount (and more: see Ó Dónaill's dict.)
méid fem.= size

I found that out when I heard a passage on 4fm with the sentence 'chuir sé feabhas agus méid ar an teach'

That is one good piece of information to have! I was wondering about this before! Thank you pog it!

Gael

What a great idea for a thread! As mentioned above, one that I noticed recently relates to spelling and shows how big a deal it can be in Irish not to mix similar words up:

Pianódóir - Pianist
Pianadóir - Tormentor, punisher.

pog it

In similar vein, I came across these three words- spelt alike, but they are all commonly used words.

greadtóir: whisk
greadóg: appetizer
gearrthóg: cutlet

For me with any new words I have to see them for a second time before they stick 'permanently' in my memory

deise go deo

Níl aon thóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin:D

pog it

deise go deo wrote: »

Níl aon thóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin:D

hahaha. This is particularly true for certain people (i.e. gender!) :pac:

Micilin Muc

Apparently tá fáilte romhat as a reply to go raibh maith agat is Béarlachas (you're welcome).

Ní fiú duit é would be considered more native.

This was a big surprise to me as a native speaker!

Gaelscoil RT

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Apparently tá fáilte romhat as a reply to go raibh maith agat is Béarlachas (you're welcome).

Ní fiú duit é would be considered more native.

This was a big surprise to me as a native speaker!

Funny you should say that, because I'd seen that said as well somewhere a few years ago (somewhere on the internet), but then found the exact same expression used in Foclóir Uí Dhónaill (the most authoritive Irish dictionary available) on page 507 in that supposedly wrong manner. So it would appear to be rubbish. The fact that a native speaker like yourself was not aware of it only highlights that.

Though there is the possibility that it is not the norm in a certain dialect, but that does not make it Béarlachas.

pog it

Gaelscoil RT wrote: »

Funny you should say that, because I'd seen that said as well somewhere a few years ago (somewhere on the internet), but then found the exact same expression used in Foclóir Uí Dhónaill (the most authoritive Irish dictionary available) on page 507 in that supposedly wrong manner. So it would appear to be rubbish. The fact that a native speaker like yourself was not aware of it only highlights that.

Though there is the possibility that it is not the norm in a certain dialect, but that does not make it Béarlachas.

It makes sense to me now that Micilín Muc says that. 'Níl a bhuíochas ort' for 'Don't mention it' is another natural phrase.
I think Fáilte is better used in the context of welcome of the physical type, like welcome you get when going to a neighbour's house.

But it's used by a lot of good speakers now as well as learners so I guess it's forever established now as a reply to thanks.

An gal gréine

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Apparently tá fáilte romhat as a reply to go raibh maith agat is Béarlachas (you're welcome).

Ní fiú duit é would be considered more native.

This was a big surprise to me as a native speaker!

As time marches on, béarlachas infiltrates without us even realising it.
I heard a native speaker on R na G recently say "..sin níos mó cosúil leis". I had to translate to English to try to understand what he meant. If you had'nt got English, you would'nt know that he meant "that's more like it".
I suppose the reply will be 'who cares?'...but it's still sad to see a language erode in front of you.

Micilin Muc

Gaelscoil RT wrote: »

Funny you should say that, because I'd seen that said as well somewhere a few years ago (somewhere on the internet), but then found the exact same expression used in Foclóir Uí Dhónaill (the most authoritive Irish dictionary available) on page 507 in that supposedly wrong manner. So it would appear to be rubbish. The fact that a native speaker like yourself was not aware of it only highlights that.

Though there is the possibility that it is not the norm in a certain dialect, but that does not make it Béarlachas.

I found it in Cuir Gaeilge Air by Antain Mac Lochlainn. But now that I see it in FGB, I suppose what An gal gréine and pog it say is true: we don't notice these corruptions anymore and they are now part of the language and accepted. I don't have any more references apart from these two, but I know that FGB isn't always correct and this could be one of the anomalies in the dictionary.

An gal gréine wrote: »

As time marches on, béarlachas infiltrates without us even realising it.
I heard a native speaker on R na G recently say "..sin níos mó cosúil leis". I had to translate to English to try to understand what he meant. If you had'nt got English, you would'nt know that he meant "that's more like it".
I suppose the reply will be 'who cares?'...but it's still sad to see a language erode in front of you.

That's just bad Irish. Was it Rónán Mac Aodha Bhuí messing?

Megatron_X

I wouldn't say that Irish is being eroded or corrupted by those kinds of adaptations. Every language adapts as it grows, it's how it survives. I wouldn't call English eroded by words brought in from French or other languages. Irish speakers from 100 years ago might not understand 'fáilte romhat' but the same thing is true for English speakers from 100 years ago not understanding today's English.

The alternatives to using 'fáilte romhat' seem unnatural to me as an Irish speaker, in the same way that using 'one can...' instead of 'you can...' seems unnatural to me as an English speaker. I wouldn't call it Béarlachas either, I'd call it Béarlachas if it was something stupid like 'Tá tú fáilte.', 'tá fáilte romhat' actually portrays what is meant and makes sense in Irish, I always thought Béarlachas was a direct translation that made no sense.

An gal gréine

I take your point, Megatron X, that English is adapting as it grows through borrowing from French and other languages but Irish is not enhanced by the example I gave. In a hundred years time, I expect Irish to have survived and as you point out, to get there many adaptations will have occured.
Miclin, it was'nt Rónán but a presenter who has a programme on Saturdays. Enough said on that, I think.

gaeilgeboy

Rud a d'fhoghlaim mé le déanaí (tá's a'm go bhfuil sé sean anois):

Gloine Beorach - A Glass of Beer
Gloine Bheorach - A Beer Glass

Micilin Muc

The height of my day today was learning that "arna" as in "arna fhoilsiú" came from "ar" + "a". I don't know why I found it interesting but I think I need to get out more!

deise go deo

Rinne sé magairlí cránach( Sow's Balls) den obair =
He made a mess of the work.:D

pog it

Micilin Muc wrote: »

The height of my day today was learning that "arna" as in "arna fhoilsiú" came from "ar" + "a". I don't know why I found it interesting but I think I need to get out more!

Jaysus that is bizarre! I just learned that yesterday! Came across it by accident.

An gal gréine

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Apparently tá fáilte romhat as a reply to go raibh maith agat is Béarlachas (you're welcome).

Ní fiú duit é would be considered more native.

This was a big surprise to me as a native speaker!

Just back from a visit to the Donegal Gaeltacht and noticed that "'Sé do bheatha" is widespread rather than "tá fáilte romhat".
Sé do bheatha is also what's said in Gaidhlig na hAlbain.

dory

faoi dhéin an ostáin = approaching the hotel

Don't know how I got by for so long without knowing 'approaching'.

Interesting thread!

Gael

Micilin Muc wrote: »

The height of my day today was learning that "arna" as in "arna fhoilsiú" came from "ar" + "a". I don't know why I found it interesting but I think I need to get out more!

Where did you see/hear that? The Caighdeán Oifigiúil (top of page 33) says that it comes from i ndiaidh a

.i. arna fhoilsiú = i ndiaidh a fhoilsiú

Gael

A few common examples of Béarlachas that I learned about over the last while:

- Bunaithe ar shouldn't be used as a translation of Based on (especially not as the beginning of a sentence) in a context like "Based on the information available to us, we have decided..." I bhfianaise is a more natural Irish term to use in such a case. The tuiseal ginideach follows I bhfianaise

Sampla: I bhfianaise an eolais atá againn, tá cinneadh déanta againn go bhfuil...



- Cosúil le should not be used in a situation where like is being used in the sense of such as (i.e. There were many politicians there, like/such as Brian Cowen). Cosúil le should only be used when actually making a direct comparison (Tá mo theach cosúil le séipéal). Amhail should be used as a translation of like/such as:

Sampla: Bhí go leor polaiteoirí i láthair ann, amhail Brian Ó Comhain.


- When referring to someone being lost, caillte (Tá mé caillte) should not be used, as this is used to indicate that someone is dead in Irish (Cailleadh é - He died). Ar strae or dul amú should be used to say that someone is lost/has lost their way. But it's ok to used caillte as the word for lost when not referring to human beings.

dory

Gael, cá bhfaigheann tú do chuid eolais?

I've read every grammar book I have but still there is so much I feel is missing. I'd love to know which grammar book is the most advanced.

Gael

dory wrote: »

Gael, cá bhfaigheann tú do chuid eolais?

I've read every grammar book I have but still there is so much I feel is missing. I'd love to know which grammar book is the most advanced.

I'm on the email mailing list at http://acmhainn.ie/foram.htm and it's full of translators nit-picking over grammar. I honestly don't read a lot of the material I receive as it can get quite specialised, but some of it is very interesting and there are a good few experts there and it doe help fine-tune your grammar. Why not join up and ask any grammar question you may have (in Irish of course) and they'll help you out. It's free and they're very friendly and helpful.

My impression is that the three best grammar books are An Caighdeán Oifigiúil, Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithe Críostaí and Úrchúrsa Gaeilge. Most of the rest of them are just copying off of those.

pog it

Gael wrote: »

Where did you see/hear that? The Caighdeán Oifigiúil (top of page 33) says that it comes from i ndiaidh a

.i. arna fhoilsiú = i ndiaidh a fhoilsiú

It's in the Christian brother's grammar book as arna = ar a

- you know the full extended version of the CG grammar, not the small blue book.

Gael

pog it wrote: »

It's in the Christian brother's grammar book as arna = ar a

- you know the full extended version of the CG grammar, not the small blue book.

I didn't know that. Whereabouts in the book is this?

pog it

In the pdf version it is on pg. 128 - Point 13.7.

I'd say it's a case where they both might apply depending on tense/noun or verbal noun following. I'm happy with both, mise ar saoire

Micilin Muc

It's also on P.61 of FGB.

Enkidu

A cool little phrase I thought:

Ní raibh neart mná seoil ionam.

Literally: There wasn't the strength of a woman in childbirth in me.
Actually: I was as weak as could be.

Krusader

Buy "Gaelic Idioms" by G. Bannister, it's a must buy for anyone learning Irish