And where is the wine?

Wine_Guy

I can't understand how this is getting so out of hand..

I love wine, but i also love beer, and am very interested in spirits.
Although they are all made by different methods and processes i think that the enjoyment of any alcoholic beverage is the appreciation of hand crafted creations. I have never seen them as different categories but sub categories under the beverage category. I think that anyone who tries to analyze flavour profiles of drinks could do so as easily with wine as beer.
Maybe i'm just narrow minded



On a better note,
If your looking for some wine and nibbles this weekend I highly reccomend:
Barbera d'Asti tesco finest 7.35
Lidl black forest ham 1.99
Lidl goats cheese my block 2.82

I took a bit of a shot in the dark tonight mixing the 3 of these together but will serve them everytime i have people over...yummy

Berwick

I wonder why this is so:

More often than not beer friends enter a wine thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

But I have never seen a wine friend enter a beer thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

I wonder why this is so .....

:cool:

BeerNut

When you did this:

Berwick wrote: »

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

You did this:

Berwick wrote: »

create trouble and spoil the fun.

You need to back up your opinions when you're called on them. I think the case for the diversity of beer has been made in this thread. I've not seen anything about the much greater diversity of wine. Can someone enlighten us? It all seems like a combination of nothing more than grapes, wood, yeast and time to me. What have I missed? How is wine so much more diverse than beer when it has so few ingredients and is made in so few places?

Berwick

I still wonder why this is so:

More often than not beer friends enter a wine thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

But I have never seen a wine friend enter a beer thread to create trouble and spoil the fun.

This is a wine thread and not a beer thread.

The praise of beer may be sung elsewhere.

---

That wine is infinitely more diverse than beer is not an opinion, but a fact.

But I know that it is hopeless to explain this to beer frieds who don't know a thing about it.

And finally:

The intention of this thread is not to fight with beer friends, but a friendly chat among wine friends.

That is my intention anyhow.

Wine_Guy

BeerNut wrote: »

I've not seen anything about the much greater diversity of wine. Can someone enlighten us? It all seems like a combination of nothing more than grapes, wood, yeast and time to me. What have I missed? How is wine so much more diverse than beer when it has so few ingredients and is made in so few places?

1) Diversity in wine comes in many different ways, it is not by use of different ingredients, but micro-climates and 'terroir' this includes soil types and the area it is grown. It is true to say that if you were to grow the same type of grape on either side of a road they will make completely different wines. The diversity of wine is hidden in the mystique of 'terroir'.

2) I don't think that your statement holds up. To use a phrase used on this thread before, if you were to judge the world of wine based on what gets sold on the irish market its like judging the world of food based on what is sold in most burger vans.
wine is made in places like England, Ireland, Wales and the first plantings in Scotland were laid this year....these are just the local ones and theres even more than this list of the worlds top 70 producers by volume:

Italy
France
United States
Spain
Argentina
Chile
South Africa
Australia
Brazil
Germany
Portugal
Greece
Romania
China
Moldova
Hungary
Ukraine
Austria
Russia
Bulgaria
Croatia
Serbia and Montenegro[5]
Macedonia
New Zealand
Switzerland
Lebanon
Mexico
Japan
Algeria
Georgia
Czech Republic
Canada
Slovenia
Uzbekistan
Peru
Slovakia
Cyprus
Morocco
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Turkey
Kazakhstan
Cuba
Albania
Belgium
Luxembourg
Uruguay
Madagascar
Armenia
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Israel
Tajikistan
Paraguay
Lithuania
Azerbaijan
Egypt
Kyrgyzstan
Venezuela
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Zimbabwe
United Kingdom
Malta
Syria
The Netherlands
Panama
India
Liechtenstein
Réunion
Although i do think india is alot further up this list by next crush

Berwick

@ Wine Guy

Why do you take all this trouble to argue with a beer nut?`

Genuine beer nuts will never understand.

And even if they do understand, they will not admit it.

Berwick

For many people, Germany is not even on the list of the wine growing countries.

But Germany alone has 13 distinct wine growing regions.

Talking of diversity .....

And I haven't even mentioned the grape varieties yet.

---

No use talking to someone whose horizon ends with red and white ....

BeerNut

Wine_Guy wrote: »

The diversity of wine is hidden in the mystique of 'terroir'.

Climate, soil types, plant strains, farming methods all apply to the diversity of hops. I prefer the term "chemistry" to "mystique", though: it's less wanky.

I notice coffee people use the term terroir as well. Since beer can be made with both grapes and coffee, I think terroir applies here too.

Wine_Guy wrote: »

if you were to judge the world of wine based on what gets sold on the irish market

I wouldn't dare. It's an impressive list, I grant you, so I withdraw my "few" statement, but will point out that all those places make beer.

Russia, Japan and the Netherlands, to pick three arbitrarily, have their own native types of beer (kvas, happoshu and bockbier, respectively) as well as making the common sorts. Do they have their own sorts of wine?

Berwick

BeerNut wrote: »

sorts of wine?

There is red and there is white.

No use explaining more to someone whose horizon ends with red and white. :D:D

the beer revolu

I agree that this has gotten out of hand.

What started with me disagreeing that wine is more diverse than other drinks has descended into a childish slagging match.

Yes wine is diverse, no one said it wasn't.

Wine guy, you talk sense.

Berwick, you are a childish petulant, ill informed prejudiced, narrow minded snob if you seriously think that because someone has a interest, love and knowledge of beer that they can have no appreciation or knowledge of wine and can have no part in your precious 'thread' about wine.
I love wine, but it is NOT a fact that wine is infinitely more diverse than beer and it is rather stupid to compare two things when you only have knowledge of one of them.

To get back to topic!!:

This weekend we are taking away with us:


Terras Gauda O Rosal, Albirino blend from Rias Baixas 2008

Domain Bind Humbrecht 2006, Alsace Reisling Truckheim

Propiedad Rioja 2005 , Palacios Remondo

Domaine Machard De Gramont, Cote do Beaune-Village


Also taking some rather good beers but that's not for this thread!!

€10 Corkage @ Inis Mean !! I think we're going to have a good wine weekend!!

Berwick

the beer revolu wrote: »

but it is NOT a fact that wine is infinitely more diverse than beer

Of course it is.

Enough said.

kenmc

lads it's really very simple. if you don't feed the little hairy things that live under bridges, they soon go away. problem solved.

the beer revolu

Berwick wrote: »

Of course it is.

Enough said.

Very well argued!;)
You should be a barrister!

_blank_

Berwick wrote: »

Of course it is.

Enough said.

Berwick, you are new here, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

But, if you keep up with this grating style of posting, upsetting everyone else, I'm not going to be left with much choice other than to assume you are doing it on purpose. Which isn't going to go down too well.

Augment your posting style, or stop posting.

Take that as a small warning.

Murphyt

Beer and wine go hand in hand gentleman.

I had a bottle of whitstable bay while preparing dinner and along with the starter, asparagus wrapped in parma ham and grilled with a little parmesan on top.
then a bottle of 1996 Phelan Segur, Bordeaux with steak and veg oven roasted in honey.
All I can say is I love whitstable bay and could drink it anytime anywhere, the Segur was an indulgence of course considering the price but unbelievable, I really wanted to send the wife away and have it all to myself but then there would be the divorce proceedings and it gets messy.

Any 2005 bordeaux will be good as it is to be the best year in a long time, it would be worth getting some nice ones to keep till about 2018 but even the cheap ones will be good as any crappy wine producer can produce a good bottle from that year.

the beer revolu

the beer revolu wrote: »

This weekend we are taking away with us:


Terras Gauda O Rosal, Albirino blend from Rias Baixas 2008

Domain Zind Humbrecht 2006, Alsace Reisling Truckheim

Propiedad Rioja 2005 , Palacios Remondo

Domaine Machard De Gramont, Cote do Beaune-Village


Also taking some rather good beers but that's not for this thread!!

€10 Corkage @ Inis Mean !! I think we're going to have a good wine weekend!!

The Propiedad above was sublime - so velvety and rich but not too 'big'. The most I've enjoyed a bottle of wine in a long time!!
All the above were very good but that stood out!!

the beer revolu

Murphyt wrote: »

Any 2005 bordeaux will be good as it is to be the best year in a long time, it would be worth getting some nice ones to keep till about 2018 but even the cheap ones will be good as any crappy wine producer can produce a good bottle from that year.

Yeah, I bought a mixed case of 2005 Bordeaux for keeping about 2 years ago ..... but can I wait that long??!!

Berwick

Des wrote: »

But, if you keep up with this grating style of posting, upsetting everyone else, I'm not going to be left with much choice other than to assume you are doing it on purpose. Which isn't going to go down too well.

Augment your posting style, or stop posting.

Take that as a small warning.

Sorry.

I had to learn first what the accepted style of posting is here:

the beer revolu wrote: »

Berwick, you are a childish petulant, ill informed prejudiced, narrow minded snob ....

I am sorry, I cannot keep up with this style.

---

FYI: I come from a wine-growing country, and all my ancestors habe grown and made wine for centuries.

So I was under the false impression, that wine might be a subject worth talking about.

Now in this thread I have learned 3 things:

1. Wine is not worth talking about.

2. There is red wine and there is white wine and that is all there is to it.

3. You should not contradict people here, especially if they sing the praise of beer.

---

I stand corrected.

I will stop posting here.

Berwick

Berwick wrote: »

The intention of this thread is not to fight with beer friends, but a friendly chat among wine friends.

That is my intention anyhow.

Yes, that was my intention ....

Jev/N

May I say, being a consumer of a relatively wide range of both wine and beer on regular occasion, that the your own arguments have been the downfall of this thread

enda1

Berwick wrote: »

Sorry.

I had to learn first what the accepted style of posting is here:




I am sorry, I cannot keep up with this style.

---

FYI: I come from a wine-growing country, and all my ancestors habe grown and made wine for centuries.

So I was under the false impression, that wine might be a subject worth talking about.

Now in this thread I have learned 3 things:

1. Wine is not worth talking about.

2. There is red wine and there is white wine and that is all there is to it.

3. You should not contradict people here, especially if they sing the praise of beer.

---

I stand corrected.

I will stop posting here.

Hey Mr. Berwick, I tried!

Come back and lets talk about wine and not beer.
I found that wine I was talking about on winesdirect.ie

Check it out!

Unfortunately the price in Ireland is quite high, €18.92 a bottle

Try it out though and gimme your feedback if you please!

Where are you from and where did/do your family grow wine?

guildofevil

I am getting pretty sick of the martyr attitude you are putting forward here berwick. You were the one who mentioned beer first, in your very first post. You didn't actually start a discussion about wine, you started with a complaint that there isn't enough discussion about wine and too much discussion about beer.

The next few replies you got were positive about discussing wine but no one seemed to know how to begin, until enda1 made an effort by posting details of a wine he likes. It actually looked like the thread was going well, with several posts about wine.

What sent this thread south was you berwick.

the_beer_revolution had the temerity to disagree with a post by MattKane which amounted to "wine is more complex than other drinks". He has every right to do that if he disagrees and he made his point in a clam an rational manner.

You disagreed with him, as is your right, but you brought no evidence to the table. You could have argued wines case. You could have used the generations of wine making and appreciation you are so proud of to educate the poor misguided beer geek, but you didn't. Instead you fanned the flames by simply stating that

berwick wrote:

Wine is about 100.000.000.000.000. times more diverse than beer might ever be.

I'm surprised you didn't end it with “So there! :P”

Are you really surprised people responded? Are you really surprised there was an argument?

The rest of your posts (apart from a single point about German grape varieties) were just complaining about beer and people who like beer.

You accused the beer enthusiasts of ruining everyone's fun, when it was you who turned what might have been a calm aside in an ongoing discussion about wine, into an argument. That discussion included beer enthusiasts who also like wine.

After your childish “Wine is hundred billion times better! :P” post you spent most of your time either whining about the fact that the thread had gone OT and blaming others (even though you were the one who derailed it) or accusing people who, unlike you, were actually backing up their opinions with evidence, of being closed minded. Maybe if you actually tried to change their minds?

Eventually, thanks to people calming down and you getting a little talking to by a mod, the thread went back to talking about wine, but you couldn't have that. Could you? You had to derail the thread again.

Wine Guy, Mr Magnolia, enda1, the_beer_revolution and Murphyt have all made efforts to set the argument aside and talk about wine, but you won't let them.

Berwick. If you want to talk about wine. Talk about wine. If you don't, then stop whining and let others get on with it.

726courtown

guildofevil wrote: »

I am getting pretty sick of the martyr attitude you are putting forward here berwick. You were the one who mentioned beer first, in your very first post. You didn't actually start a discussion about wine, you started with a complaint that there isn't enough discussion about wine and too much discussion about beer.

The next few replies you got were positive about discussing wine but no one seemed to know how to begin, until enda1 made an effort by posting details of a wine he likes. It actually looked like the thread was going well, with several posts about wine.

What sent this thread south was you berwick.

the_beer_revolution had the temerity to disagree with a post by MattKane which amounted to "wine is more complex than other drinks". He has every right to do that if he disagrees and he made his point in a clam an rational manner.

You disagreed with him, as is your right, but you brought no evidence to the table. You could have argued wines case. You could have used the generations of wine making and appreciation you are so proud of to educate the poor misguided beer geek, but you didn't. Instead you fanned the flames by simply stating that I'm surprised you didn't end it with “So there! :P”

Are you really surprised people responded? Are you really surprised there was an argument?

The rest of your posts (apart from a single point about German grape varieties) were just complaining about beer and people who like beer.

You accused the beer enthusiasts of ruining everyone's fun, when it was you who turned what might have been a calm aside in an ongoing discussion about wine, into an argument. That discussion included beer enthusiasts who also like wine.

After your childish “Wine is hundred billion times better! :P” post you spent most of your time either whining about the fact that the thread had gone OT and blaming others (even though you were the one who derailed it) or accusing people who, unlike you, were actually backing up their opinions with evidence, of being closed minded. Maybe if you actually tried to change their minds?

Eventually, thanks to people calming down and you getting a little talking to by a mod, the thread went back to talking about wine, but you couldn't have that. Could you? You had to derail the thread again.

Wine Guy, Mr Magnolia, enda1, the_beer_revolution and Murphyt have all made efforts to set the argument aside and talk about wine, but you won't let them.

Berwick. If you want to talk about wine. Talk about wine. If you don't, then stop whining and let others get on with it.

Jeez, go easy on the guy, can this be an end to all this petty, childish slagging and lets start discussing what we are here for....WINE.
I am just starting to gain some real knowledge about wine so would like to see some posters favourite wines, preferably ones available to most consumers, I dont intend going to source wines directly.
Say your fav red & white under€10, €20. Your fav with a good steak, seafood, pasta etc. i know this is fairly basic but lets start from there
No more "Mine is bigger than yours", OK.

enda1

726courtown wrote: »

Jeez, go easy on the guy, can this be an end to all this petty, childish slagging and lets start discussing what we are here for....WINE.
I am just starting to gain some real knowledge about wine so would like to see some posters favourite wines, preferably ones available to most consumers, I dont intend going to source wines directly.
Say your fav red & white under€10, €20. Your fav with a good steak, seafood, pasta etc. i know this is fairly basic but lets start from there
No more "Mine is bigger than yours", OK.

So what are yours?

The wine I listed is a great wine for under €20.

Under €10 is very difficult I think (in Ireland), however, it would probably be a Touraine from Loire I'd imagine.

_blank_

Lads, stop with this riling of another poster.

Murphyt

Sunday was a starter of cured meets with peppers and gurkins, with this I had 2 ales firstly was hobgoblins and it was delicious I never had it before and found it a good strong flavour to go with the meets, 2nd was bishops finger again a nice dark ale although I have had many bishops finger (easy now) in my day so I knew what I was getting.
Dinner was pork and with this went 2 wines.
First a white, 2007 ginglinger riesling alsace from the wine buff for 14 euro, it was very nice crisp and fruity.
Secondly was a red, Chateau de Fontenay 2005 from o'briens at 12.95. This was very satisfactory and I have had it before in the 2000, which is another excellent year, it would not be a great estate but in these 2 years, although I dont think the 2000 is available anymore, this wine is good value and stands up well enough to most bordeaux at least when drinking with food.
Sorry about the wine descriptions I know what I like and what I dont like but can never really describe why.

sourgrapes

Just wrote about rosé for Sunday's Tribune. What are "boarders" feelings on rosé?

Do you like it, if not why not? And if you do like it, in what style, the "blush" from Gallo et cetera or the more traditional dry styles from southern France?

Is it underappreciated?

Interested to hear some thoughts.

Gstore.ie (Tony)

Hi All,

For me my wine of the moment is the following http://www.drinksdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Casillero_del_Diablo_Shiraz.html extremely difficult to find this in Ireland even had a guy in a wine store trying to convince me it was never made. Fantastic value for money, I am extremely fussy with Wine and believe me this will impress you. I didnt expect much when I bought it first as it was so cheap but it was something for a quiet night in, I have stocked up on cases of it since. I was in the UK last week and they had it in Tesco for £6.99 but cannot find it in any stores in Cork, if anyone finds it them please let me know.

Another one of my favourites is Patemina Accolode Rioja.

On another note is anyone aware of any Wine clubs available in Ireland where you sign up and they send you a bottle once every few weeks.

Regards
Tony

muckety

sourgrapes wrote: »

Just wrote about rosé for Sunday's Tribune. What are "boarders" feelings on rosé?

Do you like it, if not why not? And if you do like it, in what style, the "blush" from Gallo et cetera or the more traditional dry styles from southern France?

Is it underappreciated?

Interested to hear some thoughts.

I think rose suffers from the 'Mateus' association, a sweet fruity light wine for people who don't really like wine. Personally, I like the dry french (Bordeaux in particular) styles. This one is very nice, more complex than the sweeter, fruitier rose's and perfect for sipping in the sun / with a BBQ ->
Chateaux Haut Rian Rose 2009 - I got it at Winesdirect.ie.

grenache

I go away for exams for two weeks, i come back and the beer & wine forum is at war! For what its worth i'm glad that we are beginning to see more wine threads on here, to complement the several beer and spirit ones.