Limerick DC Appeal - SUCCESS!!!

knockon

I am just out of the District Court in Limerick. Myself, Grizzly and AN Other has just been successful in keeping our 9mm Centrefires among other stuff.

I have to go as the Champagne is getting a Tad warm. I'll get a full report tonight.

Knockon - Limericks First Centrefire Appeal Success.

Whaaooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Additional Info: As far as we are aware 4 others who were not in court but had legal representation were also successful. I don't know what firearms or who they were. To recap approx 7 appeals were successfull.

Darr

congrats guys and well done to all of ye
Dar

bunny shooter

Congrats lads :cool:

murph226

Well done lads!

meathstevie

Nice one lads

meathshooter1

well done lads:D

deerhunter1

knockon wrote: »

I am just out of the District Court in Limerick. Myself, Grizzly and AN Other has just been successful in keeping our 9mm Centrefires among other stuff.

I have to go as the Champagne is getting a Tad warm. I'll get a full report tonight.

Knockon - Limericks First Centrefire Appeal Success.

Whaaooooo!!!!!!!!!!

well done

It wasn't me!

Congratulations. May you have many happy years of plugging away now.

Cass

Congratulations to all and justly deserved.

Darr

contact the local press now before your names are in print next week , ask then from refraining to publish your names on the grounds of personal security ...
just a thought
Dar

sfakiaman

Great news, congrats to all.

gunhappy_ie

knockon wrote: »

I am just out of the District Court in Limerick. Myself, Grizzly and AN Other has just been successful in keeping our 9mm Centrefires among other stuff.

I have to go as the Champagne is getting a Tad warm. I'll get a full report tonight.

Knockon - Limericks First Centrefire Appeal Success.

Whaaooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Additional Info: As far as we are aware 4 others who were not in court but had legal representation were also successful. I don't know what firearms or who they were. To recap approx 7 appeals were successfull.

You much have had your lucky charmes with you :P

marlin vs

Great new's, well done.

Odysseus

That's excellent news. It's a shame you have to go to all that trouble and expense, but in the end you guys got the result you wanted. Congrats.

rowa

knockon wrote: »

I am just out of the District Court in Limerick. Myself, Grizzly and AN Other has just been successful in keeping our 9mm Centrefires among other stuff.

I have to go as the Champagne is getting a Tad warm. I'll get a full report tonight.

Knockon - Limericks First Centrefire Appeal Success.

Whaaooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Additional Info: As far as we are aware 4 others who were not in court but had legal representation were also successful. I don't know what firearms or who they were. To recap approx 7 appeals were successfull.

was there much resistance in court from the gardai side ? bullistics experts etc ?

dCorbus

Fair play, Major Congratulations, and Well Done, Lads!:)

A full report would be excellent, if you're happy to provide one.

Again, Congrats!

Dvs

rowa wrote: »

bullistics experts etc ?

Some people reading this,
might think this was a spelling mistake,
they would be wrong,
It is an accurate description.



Well done to everyone that was successful with their appeal!


Dvs

ravima

agree - well done.

SpringerF

bullistics experts etc ?


Would love to read that story

knockon

Firstly thanks so much for all your good wishes - you're a great bunch of guys.

Here is the brief version......

We arrived in Court consultation rooms at 9am (myself, Grizzly and AN Other). All the other guys were told not not attend by their solicitors as the State will look for an adjournment. Our Solicitor Philip Deeney of Leahy & Partners said he was not informed and they will be objecting strongly. No sign of a Chief, Super or a Bullistics insp......So Myself and Grizzly are in the court room and AN Other (whose legal counsel are not even there) with a load of expert witnesses that we had.

Still no sign of a Chief, Super or a Bullistics insp......

All the scum bags are dealt with at this stage and the place is gouger and reporter free and at 11.30am ...the following words....

"CS Thomas Mc Mahon V Knockon".

A new inspector who is on his first day in court says "We would like to adjurn for 3 months Judge". Judge Tom O Donnell says "This has been put back already a number of times and have you given notice to the Appelants"? Tom McGowan BL who is our barrister says "Judge, we have 6 independent and other witnesses here who have travelled etc etc...No notice was received by our offices.

The Judge had a bit of a spat with the Inspector for 2-3 minutes and then said..

"I will allow Mr Knockon his 2 appeals (Sig Pro 9mm and Sig mosquito .22mm)". then Mr Grizzly's name is called out and "I am granting your appeal (for your evil Glock)" and then called out AN Others name and the only reason AN Others appeal was granted was that he was there purely as a spectator as my evidence would have taken all day. 4 other guys I think who are Willie Egans clients also got theirs although I am not sure.

Anyone who was in court (only 3 of us) won our appeal + Willie Egans 4 as they had a Solicitor present the rest of them have been put back to Sept 3rd 2010.

Points:
1. The Inspectors first day in Court did not go well for him.
2. If you are 1 of the Willie Egan 4 who won your appeal in Limerick you have us to thank.
3. Was it worth it - most definately.
4. I am deeply indebted to one guy who rarely posts on this Forum and have been a huge source of help. He knows who he is - Thanks K
5. Hire a Barrister - our Team were Excellent.

I have left out a lot for obvious reasons. I and the boys will be happy to assist anyone who has this to face and would be delighted to offer any assistance (PM Please and then we can ask around to make sure you are not a DOJ Employee)

No doubt Grizzly 45 will give his version of events - he's like a dog with 2 you know what's and smiling like a Cheshire cat.

My best to you all.
A very happy Knockon.

boc121

Great news,delighted for all of ye,power to the people:D

derek_g34

Contratulations lads. I take it Ballyhoura is on the cards for tomorrow:D

Grizzly 45

Well, what can I say?Knockon has coverd the battle,or better still the TKO,[it was like the famous Ali Vs Robinson boxing match of 1 round..... over in 7 mins.:D
You go in prepared for war,a long and bloddy battle of wits,totally unsure of the outcome and it is over.
I had to answer a call of nature,and of course I come back in just as Judge O Donnell is berating the inspector about the State not being bothered to get it's act together for a three times deferred bunch of cases,so he is granting to anyone there all their liscenses.I get a wink from my barrister to follow him out and he simply says "job done you are sorted!" I am just like,what???Thats it???Sh...te...I was already for a fight...Damn!"

Knockon didnt mention ,I also won the appeal on my Evilll camoflaged Semi auto.243 centrefire rifle.[YES it can be done here folks],I withdrew the restricted appeal on my remington 1100 shotgun as they saw fit to grant in unrestricted.
Anyways,a clean sweep straight down the board for me.:D
BTW I can reveal our another friend has posted here before.He is Dexter2010.

Without making this sound like an Oscar acceptance speech

I would like to thank our legal team.We couldnt have done it without them.[will provide their contact details by PM for those who might need them]

Knockon,for much free coffee;)

Gunhappy.ie,he is DA MAN when it comes to semi auto rifle stuff:cool:,

Dexter2010 for keeping up my spirts when they were down badly in Jan. Him and I go back a long way..

K,you know who you are...Thanks mate.

Our two exellent independant witnesses for the handguns and for the 1500 disipline.Worth their weight in gold.
Thanks to you all for coming down this dark road with me for abit.

Also thanks to Mike Yardley in the UK,Jaycee here on Boards as well and many others who helped out from Germany,the USA,Ireland both private and spokespeople of shooting organisations and other points.You all know who you are.My thanks.

Last but not least .Especial thanks goes to my Mum and my fiancee.Couldnt have done it without those two and their support and help,even when I was being a total CNUT to all and sundry.:rolleyes:
On the good news there,three days ago the Super in Limerick blinked first and decided on "mature decision" to re grant my mothers three firearms certs as well.

Finally,a big thanks to YOU Boards.ie reader and Mods as well.:)
without Boards here,we would never have come together to be able to pass on ideas,support,messages and geneal uplifting BS or help.Sure we all squabble ,bitch and moan,but what family doesnt?:rolleyes::D

What did I learn from this?
You have to get as MAD AS HELL!! I had my Christmas and new year destroyed by this shambles,not to mind five months of wasted time and stress that could have put to 1000% better useful things.
I got my first letter of refusal on Dec 24th,as if it was planned that.
Of course this was not helped by two other refusals in January.I decided then my line in the sand had been jumped over ,and this was not going to be taken lying down.If you feel you have been badly wronged in this life,what are you going to do about it?I decided I was going to fight this all the way,[and still will if there is more BS down the road from the Dail...Be warned up there:mad:] to Europe if necessary.This is NOT a deision I would take lightly,and would advise you think long and hard .Are you willing to put the time and money and effort into this??You WILL need to put a good lot of time both work,personal and private into fighting this,because after awhile it isnt just about your gun either.It is about principle as well,your principles and how you are being treated by a body and arm of this State.Principles cost money,and how much are your principles worth to you in the long run???Mine are worth much to me,because I belive if you have no principles in this life then you really have nothing!

Group up and support each other.
Without meeting Knockon,and gunhappy and Dexter,I would have been fighting solo and would not have been able to pick their brains on people they knew who could be of assistance or ideas,and they likewise with me.
It is a great help if you can chat to somone in person when you feel down[and belive me there WILL be PLENTY of times this will happen to you:(]
Even if it is just for ten mins over coffee.Belive me when I say you Will NOT survive this if you try doing this solo.Unity is strength,trust each other to do what tyou say you will do. The perverse thing is I now belive that these cases are actually starting to bring people together in small groups.This was one of our major weaknesses in the Irish shooting faternatiy.we were divided and easily conqured.This might not be the beginning of the end ,but certainly the end of the beginning of this horrible division in Irish shooting? In Jan when things looked really grim weatherwise and legal.We were looking at bringing over Micheal Yardley to fight this as expert witness.[Google him if you dont know who he is]But by March we had sourced different people here who could do the job just as well.and because we were in this together we could debate the pros and cons and costs of who would be on the legal team,the more info we possessed and discussed our confidence grew better and stronger.So by today I was 75 to 90% sure of a win,if it had come to a serious slug match.

Sort out the players from the BS artists.
We found out who was serious when it came to putting down your money and taking your chances.This isnt cheap folks.I am now in hock because of this.Be prepared to pony up around 3 grand for this little venture.
witness need to be paid,and they are the cheapest of the whole process.The BS will start when monies are mentioned and walletts have to be opened.Simple and hard rule is;you pay,you get information and are in the circle,no money no free ride.This is too serious to be putting up with people trying to get info for free on the QT,or fence sitting or riding in on your coat tails.Everybody pays their way.Simple as!

Get Expert witnesses
They are out there and are fellow gunowners who have got professional qualifications in firearms or training,use them.Yeah! I hear you saying I know that/as much as/more than them any time.BUT it is like a Judge once said if he was convicted of a crime .He would hire a fellow lawyer to repersent him.You need somone to speak for you in a court as an independant witness.I knew there was much I could have argued wit,but in the end I would have lost as my expert witness pointed out some severe traps I could have walked into..Take it from me.You aint as smart as you think you are.[As a couple of lads found out today in the court.]

Legal council
Get the best you can afford,and those who are young lean and hungry.Our solicitor knew not much about firearms in January.He can give a good account of himself now in May on the FA.:D[And he is mad keen to try shooting now] GET A BARRISTER I cant highly enough recommend our silk,as he is a fellow shooting man and you do need somone who is clued into this whole game.Getting your local breif who just deals with house deeds and mundane stuff will not cut this.Also Listen to them and follow their advice even when it isnt somthing you want to hear!! I didnt want to hear that I had lost another 300 quid on costs for converting my shotgun,but in the long run it would have benefitted in a strategic play in court.Dont be put off by the pomp and ceremony of the law here.ASK your council pertinent questions like have they ever dealt with such a case,do THEY feel confident in fighting this?If not ,why not?and if they dont feel up to it who could they recommend??after all it is YOU who are paying them,so ask them!

Have your paperwork and story squared away
Have all revelant documents with you and proof of whatever you are claiming on the day.Seriously.I was asked for proof that I was a member of a approved range by my barrister.I had everything with me,bar that!
Until I rememberd I had my range card in my wallet.Lucky me! but supposing that had been on the stand??

Be firm in WHY you want this paticular gun
If your reasons are just "ah shure I just want it for the craic",or anything wshy washy.The State will be onto you like a pack of pitbulls in the witness box.They get a smell of weakness you are a goner!You must be able to state the who,what,why,wherfores of your gun,shooting career etc,and stick with it thru a most BORING,repetitive,cross examanation by the Gardai.It is an old police tactic.Keep going back over,and over and over things you have said,until you slip up thru carelessness or tiredness,and they can then work into that chink in your story.Dont let them do this to you.

Dont let this stress you out.
This is one thing,I let it consume a good bit of my life in the last five months.I spent more time in front of this damn computor gathering intell for this day,than I did going shooting,fishing or working or doing somthing useful.you do have to try and put this somtimes to one side and go away and forget about it for a few days or weeks,as otherwise your personal life will suffer.

Have faith
In your legal team,your witnesses and your co plantiffs.
Most of all in YOURSELF..They are on your side and with you all the way.Win ,lose or draw,every little bit of info gleaned from these cases will help somone else down the line in their endevours to win their guns back.Things have changed since last Oct when we were betrayed by that slimeball in the Dail[Hey! that rhymes].The DC re being innundated with cases and the high courts are about to be.
Remember,we have done nothing wrong.But have been badly WRONGED.
For those of you who belive in a higher being,you are sorted anyway,and it doesnt not help to ask them for guidance.After this week, I as an agnostic ,must really say somtimes there is a God!:)

Folks, for those who have gone before and won,Well done.
Those who are in this ordeal,I wish you the very best and good strength to your sword arm.Hold fast and give no quater.For those who are starting out on this.Think long and hard about it.It is a very dark and lonely road you will go down,but if you have people to walk it with you it isnt so scary. Who knows you might be as surprised as I was today.
And if anyone wants a guide,I, will be only too happy to advise or help out.Once I know you are a genuine case and not some plant by Govt types.

Finally,was it worth it?
Damn straight it was!! Every last cent,every drop of blood,sweat and tears.People met as strangers,we are now as family.A small insignifficant group of "mere civillians" in a city where a tragedy was used to victimise many law abiding,and where a severe fight was expected,fell virtually without a legal shot being fired.Somtimes,the little guys win!!!:D

Now,the hour grows late.I'm off to get a couple more Jack Daniels & Coke into me[Getting old..I used to drink it straight on days like this..:rolleyes:] at home and actually switch off this damn computor for tonite and switch on the Telly..I havent done that in awhile.

My Best
Grizzly45

sharky0922

good job grizzly! sounds like hard path to walk. week of celebration ? ..wait, month?
i just wonder ,will be there any consequences from this to gardai officer/s? did he bend law for his ideas? or to anybody responsible?
just asking because in my mind somebody who drags you to court for no good reason should pay price just like you did..justice? :rolleyes:

daveob007

Sweet as a nut guys well done to all and many more we hope.
By the way did any of you guys claim costs? and if so whats the story.

anyway it was a victory for law abiding sports men/women who did nothing wrong.
when will they give up and grant certs to those who have a legit reason for owning them.

knockon

daveob007 wrote: »

Sweet as a nut guys well done to all and many more we hope.
By the way did any of you guys claim costs? and if so whats the story.

anyway it was a victory for law abiding sports men/women who did nothing wrong.
when will they give up and grant certs to those who have a legit reason for owning them.

Glad you brought that up. Our barrister asked Judge O Donnell for costs and he refused - No debate was entered into.

Grizzly 45

Got to take a hit somwhere:(. Still it was planned that our breif would ask for them irrespective.However it doesnt preclude a civil action for costs against the Cheif comissioner and Minister for Justice!However as seperate individual cases it proably isnt worth it.But that doesnt say that a group couldnt launch a high court action.More funds,more people,more legal counci,more supportl.As I said ,you wont get far with solo runs.

Smirky

Well done lads brilliant news & well deserved. Waiting for my September date in Dublin where hopefully we will see the same results! In the meantime have to sit on our hands (and our pistols!!)

Happy shooting, very jealous!

S

freddieot

Well done !! I'm in later in the year as well here in Dublin and I'll fight my case all the way.

It is good advice to be well prepared and to have a brief who knows what he is about, have experts ready and all the documentation you might ever need - even if you eventually won't need all of it.

The only way to handle these refusals is to appeal. Apart from lads that genuinely can't afford it because of the mess Fianna Fail has made of this country, everyone that can, should appeal and fight for your justice.

It's just a shame the real crime in this country does not get the attention from Fianna Fail, the Greens and the Gardaí, that law abiding sportment and women seem to attract.

(Never have to wait behind a queue of gangsters dropping off their rocket launchers and machine guns when I visit my local station).

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But that doesnt say that a group couldnt launch a high court action.

Not sure if you can do that Grizzly, as McGarr's pointed out last month over the Ryanair refusal to refund those left stranded by the volcano. No such thing as class action suits in Ireland.

(If there were, shooters would probably be amongst the first to take such a case against the Minister).

Pkiernan

Congratulations guys!