Limerick DC Appeal - SUCCESS!!!

knockon

After 7 weeks I finally received my grant notices for the 9mm and the .22 pistol dated June 29th.

Word of caution - The clowns who caused all this anxiety, stress and expense spend as much time snooping around this forum as we do. Be careful what you say as their are a lot more cases to go through the DC as it is.

Grizzly 45

Indeed...However it is also important that the rest of us get information on what sort of underhanded and duplicitious tricks can be used against us as well.The better informed WE are and that THEY know this,the less chance THEY will have to use their dirty tricks against US.

Sparks

...and you think calling them clowns and saying they use underhanded tricks to fool the court is wise?

Damn glad you got the right result lads, but you might want to take a deep breath before getting a boot in, and I don't mean so you can build up to a bigger kick. You've got to get those licences renewed in three years...

Grizzly 45

You really got to read what I post Sparks,not what you THINK I say...
Please point where I said underhand tricks to fool the COURT!! More went on here than you will ever know ...

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

However it is also important that the rest of us get information on what sort of underhanded and duplicitious tricks can be used against us as well.

Saying that right after a court case and on a thread about that court case Grizzly, means it's a fair assumption you're talking about the court case.
And if not, you're making accusations about the AGS outside the court, and that's not wise either.
I'm not saying I think it's right or fair, and the High Court has backed this up in Pat Herlihy's JR case just gone by; but you have to just take a deep breath on this one because otherwise you can dig yourself a deeper hole to climb out of.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sparks;66864849]Saying that right after a court case and on a thread about that court case Grizzly, means it's a fair assumption you're talking about the court case.

making an ASS of you and me [Assumption].Hmmm well I can quite safley say the DOJ and Gardai ahave been making a LOT of ASSumptions about me then....:rolleyes:

And if not, you're making accusations about the AGS outside the court, and that's not wise either.

Is this some kind of implied threat there Sparks??????Somone putting a word in somones ear????

I'm not saying I think it's right or fair, and the High Court has backed this up in Pat Herlihy's JR case just gone by; but you have to just take a deep breath on this one because otherwise you can dig yourself a deeper hole to climb out of.

Intresting...

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

making an ASS of you and me [Assumption].Hmmm well I can quite safley say the DOJ and Gardai ahave been making a LOT of ASSumptions about me then....:rolleyes:

/facepalm
All right Grizzly, I'm sure you know best.

Is this some kind of implied threat there Sparks??????Somone putting a word in somones ear????

Nope.
Just me thinking that if you win a court case, and need your licence renewed in three short years, that getting the boot into the losing side instead of just writing off the whole thing as an unfortunate necessity is not the diplomatic way to do things.

That, and I remember the crap thrown at the Minister from '00 to '04 on the side of the necessary cases, and I'm pretty darn sure that it was the desire to get the boot in that lead to the CJB2004 which gutted our sports.
I don't believe in getting into a scrap until you have to, and I also believe in doing it the smart way when you have to. This, to my mind, ain't either.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sparks;66865127]/facepalm
All right Grizzly, I'm sure you know best.

Patience is a great virtue.This isnt over by a long shot,and I will reveal this piece by piece,when and how I think it is appropriate,and my legal counsel clears this.

Nope.
Just me thinking that if you win a court case, and need your licence renewed in three short years, that getting the boot into the losing side instead of just writing off the whole thing as an unfortunate necessity is not the diplomatic way to do things.

I'm sorry Sparks,the way I was treated by the PTB.If they want a rematch in three years...fine by us!There was NO necsssity for any of this in our cases or anyone elses for that matter..Just because a very sinister ,egotistical vaingloroius politican decided to be seen to be doing somthing, by hanging his political agenda on a murder with an illegal firearm,we all had to suffer..
Three years is a VERY long time in politics.
We tried,diplomacy, compromises,dealing,talking,trying to meet numerous times to discuss and got precisely NOWHERE!
If that is the way the PTB and the Irish Govt treat the people who employ them,with utter contempt,then as my mother who grew up in Berlin during the 3rd Reich said,we are on a very slippery slope into a dictatorship!!
Contray to what you and others might think of me.I wil do absolutly everything in my power not to fight at all.I belive in trying every other option,negotiation,diplomacy etc.BUT if you want a fight with me you will get one 110% total and utter until you are on the canvas.My war is stilll not over...

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

My war is tilll not over...

Look, I get the ire, I really do. All I'm saying is, it may not serve you as well as picking your battles would. If you feel you were treated inappropriately by the AGS, the right thing to do is to bring that charge against the officers involved formally and pursue that line; just showing up in here and posting about them here is setting yourself up for a defamation lawsuit because they're personally identifiable in that post of yours (and don't forget about the inneundo part of the defamation act).

Seriously Grizzly, you could land yourself in a world of hurt with one bad post in here, and I don't mean a quick ban, I mean being sued for defamation by the very officers you're so unhappy with right now.

Grizzly 45

Well if you feel it is defamation Sparks ,delete my post.You have done it before to protect Boards,etc. No skin off my nose anymore. Remember,smoke and daggers[as Bertie so nicely put it in mismatching his metaphors].Things are not quite what they may seem to be here.

lead loader

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[



There was NO necsssity for any of this in our cases or anyone elses for that matter..Just because a very sinister ,egotistical vaingloroius politican decided to be seen to be doing somthing, by hanging his political agenda on a murder with an illegal firearm,we all had to suffer..

+1. Well said, and i hope that everybody in the shooting community remember that when the next election comes around!!!!

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well if you feel it is defamation Sparks ,delete my post.You have done it before to protect Boards,etc.

True, but you're missing the point that it's actually saving you some serious hassle as well.

Problem arises when the person who you defame sees it before I do, especially if you've got their ire up and they're more interested in bringing a case than seeking fair treatment on here.

Grizzly 45

OK,edited the post so some sensbilities wont be affected...THIS time!
But I wil not apologise.
I accept your advice Sparks,butif you have any idea of the sheer emotive HELL,I,and my Mother have gone thru this last seven months on this issue,plus other information which I wont publish revelant to all this.You might understand my attitude and POV better.

Bananaman

Ladies,

Look down - that's the garden path and you're a good bit down it.

This thread is about the Limerick DC Appeal Success - yet again I despair at the incessant nit picking and tangental waffling which means that someone who sees the thread title and decides to read it will find out NOTHING about the Limerick DC appeal or indeed its success without wading back through three or four pages of

'I said this',
'I think you'll find you said that'
'no, i'm pretty sure I said this',
'i disagree, you said that and co-incidentally, I did not say that you did not say this but in fact that you said that'
'anyone idea what we're talking about?'

Sparks is correct that there is no point giving out about people on here - they may indeed take offence but I'd say it is unlikely they will be able to find the reference in the never ending nit picked.

Grizzly is correct that people deserve to know what happened - I personally think that a face to face is the way to advise people (as Grizzly can attest to) - posting too much detail on boards - whereas if can indeed 'show your hand' - will only lead to the advise being nit picked to such an extent that the value is lost and people cannot find it anymore in a thread that has lost its way - yet again.

If I was you I would revel in your success - enjoy your sport now that you can do so again and IF people seek your advice and you are willing, then give it but throwing it out here for the wolves will only take the good out of it.

One of your compatriots sent in an article to the last NASRPC newsletter on this very subject. Made for good reading.

B'Man

knockon

Sparks wrote: »

...and you think calling them clowns and saying they use underhanded tricks to fool the court is wise?

Damn glad you got the right result lads, but you might want to take a deep breath before getting a boot in, and I don't mean so you can build up to a bigger kick. You've got to get those licences renewed in three years...

The clowns I am referring to would be the Minister and staff and senior Members of AGS who have decimated our sport. What you are not fully aware of Sparks is the antics that went on after the DC case. We had the State trying to make up their own laws. We are not trying to get a kick in as you say more like let me show you where we were kicked. I have a lot of friends in AGS who were aghast in the manner in which this was handled. You have no idea of the genuine anguish me, Grizzly and Dexter had to endure and the financial cost was horrific. Thankfully we were sucessful and hopefully back on the range ASAP.

Don't confuse my post with some triumphant "I took on Town Hall and I won", my comments are genuine as are my reasons for owning a pistol, something that was originally lost on the PTB (as you say yourself).

Bman is right. I have been guilty of a rant or 2 in the last 8 months. No more feeding the Wolves!

knockon

Bananaman wrote: »

Ladies,

Look down - that's the garden path and you're a good bit down it.

This thread is about the Limerick DC Appeal Success - yet again I despair at the incessant nit picking and tangental waffling which means that someone who sees the thread title and decides to read it will find out NOTHING about the Limerick DC appeal or indeed its success without wading back through three or four pages of

'I said this',
'I think you'll find you said that'
'no, i'm pretty sure I said this',
'i disagree, you said that and co-incidentally, I did not say that you did not say this but in fact that you said that'
'anyone idea what we're talking about?'

Sparks is correct that there is no point giving out about people on here - they may indeed take offence but I'd say it is unlikely they will be able to find the reference in the never ending nit picked.

Grizzly is correct that people deserve to know what happened - I personally think that a face to face is the way to advise people (as Grizzly can attest to) - posting too much detail on boards - whereas if can indeed 'show your hand' - will only lead to the advise being nit picked to such an extent that the value is lost and people cannot find it anymore in a thread that has lost its way - yet again.

If I was you I would revel in your success - enjoy your sport now that you can do so again and IF people seek your advice and you are willing, then give it but throwing it out here for the wolves will only take the good out of it.

One of your compatriots sent in an article to the last NASRPC newsletter on this very subject. Made for good reading.

B'Man

Maybe thats what I was trying to say - well said Bman.

Grizzly 45

Bananaman wrote: »

Ladies,

Look down - that's the garden path and you're a good bit down it.

Sparks is correct that there is no point giving out about people on here - they may indeed take offence but I'd say it is unlikely they will be able to find the reference in the never ending nit picked.

Indeed he is,however I would also point out that despite everyone having a right to a good name.If you are a public figure ,you must expect to have muck thrown at you for your actions or inactions.Otherwise every politican and civil serpent would be suing every newspaper in the land for every commentary ever written about them.Yes there have been many cases of this happening,but in the end did it do ultimately the person suing any good.Fine,if they are worth going after like a newspaper,but a normal Joe who has nothing ??

Grizzly is correct that people deserve to know what happened - I personally think that a face to face is the way to advise people (as Grizzly can attest to) - posting too much detail on boards - whereas if can indeed 'show your hand' - will only lead to the advise being nit picked to such an extent that the value is lost and people cannot find it anymore in a thread that has lost its way - yet again.

And I will gladly,as no doubt would the others help anyone in this terrible situation.
As for giving out too much detail...Lets just say,I've posted what I want people to know,not everything I DO know.
Plus,what I have posted is general advice,not detailed advice.Anyone with abit of cop on would figure it out themselves too.

It is an unfortunate thing this nit picking.I know now too many good people who have given up posting here because of it.

Grizzly 45

Today at 08:00 the letter of grant notice for my Glock 9mm arrived.:D
Exactly 2days short of three months since I and the Limerick seven were in court and were granted our case.I'm still waiting on the rifle notice,but that should be in the post now if the Glock arrived.

I am so glad now this FARSCE and absolutely ridicilous waste of my time and money and in your case, your taxpayer monies is now almost over.
This has been one of the more stressful 9months of my more recent life.Again thanks to those who helped and stood by us.You know who you are.:D
To those who caused this... You are not forgotton nor forgiven!:mad:

To use the words of Ironman
"Oh its so good to be back!"

Rovi

Congratulations!
Now get out there and start making noise.

Sparks

Indeed! To the range!

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Today at 08:00 the letter of grant notice for my Glock 9mm arrived.:D
Exactly 2days short of three months since I and the Limerick seven were in court and were granted our case.I'm still waiting on the rifle notice,but that should be in the post now if the Glock arrived.

I am so glad now this FARSCE and absolutely ridicilous waste of my time and money and in your case, your taxpayer monies is now almost over.
This has been one of the more stressful 9months of my more recent life.Again thanks to those who helped and stood by us.You know who you are.:D
To those who caused this... You are not forgotton nor forgiven!:mad:

To use the words of Ironman
"Oh its so good to be back!"

Great news let me know any time your goin to midlands.... ill come up with ya and well pop some caps.............


on a lighter note.....9 months EVERY 3 years isnt too bad :P:P:P:P:P

bunny shooter

Congrats :cool:

freddieot

Well done !!

Grizzly 45

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Great news let me know any time your goin to midlands.... ill come up with ya and well pop some caps.............


on a lighter note.....9 months EVERY 3 years isnt too bad :P:P:P:P:P

Yeah...Rightttt...You make that sound like family planning.:D
Anyway ,paid for lic today.Just wait now for the jail release card

ROSSKI

Congrats Grizzly,Knockon and Dexter

Fair play to ye for having the balls to take them on and win

Hope your mother is doing well Grizzly

I often say it you would be better off being a criminal in this country cause they have no time for the ordinary people anymore :rolleyes:

sfakiaman

Great news, it gives the rest of us a bit of hope.

daveob007

Great news and well done,,hope all goes well for the rest also.

Grizzly 45

UPDATE.
Today another three gunowners were reunited with their liscenses in the District Court.The State didnt contest the issue.:D As apprently the liscenses have been issued within the last weeks,yet no one informed the appeal side????? [open to correction on that point]

Judge O Donnell also put the Cheif Superintendant under notice that it was totally unacceptable to delay and obstruct the issuing of the liscenses to periods of 14 weeks plus.While he was powerless to compel the CS to issue the liscenses in a timeframe,he was certainly capable of holding him in contempt of court,and requiring him to explain himself in person in the court,should he hear of any more such cases.:cool::cool:

Judge O Donnell refused costs again in these three cases despite a fair arguement from Junior Counsel,as the appealents had brought professional witnesses again to court,nor had they or counsel been informed of this development of granting the certs.

All in all Limerick is now back on par,more or less..:D
Bar ONE more lic [MINE:mad:] for the SA rifle,then this charade is hopefully OVER and DONE WITH!!!!

Now,lets get back do doing whats important!! Putting big calibre bits of lead down range thru the 10X:D:D:D:D:D

One thing is for sure,IF you have the courage,the willpower and unfortunatly,the money to do so.These situations are winnable...Take it to them!!

lumphammer

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

UPDATE.
Today another three gunowners were reunited with their liscenses in the District Court.The State didnt contest the issue.:D As apprently the liscenses have been issued within the last weeks,yet no one informed the appeal side????? [open to correction on that point]

Judge O Donnell also put the Cheif Superintendant under notice that it was totally unacceptable to delay and obstruct the issuing of the liscenses to periods of 14 weeks plus.While he was powerless to compel the CS to issue the liscenses in a timeframe,he was certainly capable of holding him in contempt of court,and requiring him to explain himself in person in the court,should he hear of any more such cases.:cool::cool:

Judge O Donnell refused costs again in these three cases despite a fair arguement from Junior Counsel,as the appealents had brought professional witnesses again to court,nor had they or counsel been informed of this development of granting the certs.

All in all Limerick is now back on par,more or less..:D
Bar ONE more lic [MINE:mad:] for the SA rifle,then this charade is hopefully OVER and DONE WITH!!!!

Now,lets get back do doing whats important!! Putting big calibre bits of lead down range thru the 10X:D:D:D:D:D

One thing is for sure,IF you have the courage,the willpower and unfortunatly,the money to do so.These situations are winnable...Take it to them!!

That first comment is incorrect the licences were not issued to the appealents today they were apparently issued to the people who were last successful in their appeals. Friday two people were successful not three.
After senior counsel asked the judge to make an order to compel the chief super to issue the licences. The judge asked him to show him where a such law existed and he would do so.After some light banter between the judge and senior counsel the judge did make a note and directed the gardai present to issue the licences sooner rather than later and the court had made its decision.For a court of the state to act in such a professional and independent manner is truly refreshing and rewarding,thats about it really.

<mod snip>

Grizzly 45

lumphammer wrote: »

That first comment is incorrect the licences were not issued to the appealents today they were apparently issued to the people who were last successful in their appeals.

NO the people who were last sucessful in their appeals[me being one of them]have already GOT their liscenses.It just took the CS about 12 weeks to issue them and an attempt in the district court by the CS to appeal it to the circut court.Which was dismissed out of hand.

Friday two people were successful not three.

Welll EXCUSSSSSEEEE MMMEEE!!!!For getting that wrong that it was only TWO people..Unless of course you were sitting right up near the judge,it is pretty difficult to hear all and everything in the Limerick DC.It has appaling aucoustics,even with the PA system.

After senior counsel asked the judge to make an order to compel the chief super to issue the licences. The judge asked him to show him where a such law existed and he would do so.

AND ..Pray continue!!!What was the rest of Judge O Donnells response????
Seeing that you might have missed that bit due to the bad aucostics :rolleyes:.He said that he was powerless to compel the CS to issue these liscenses within a timeframe.After the JC had made the point that the last people had been waiting over 14 weeks for their liscenses.
Judge O Donnell said that this was totally unacceptable and that Henry St was to issue them without any further delay and obstruction,and he was putting a note on this matter to the Inspector present to inform the CS was under note to do this.Else the CS would be looking at a contempt of court charge if there was any reports of this going beyond a rerasonable timeframe.Which is if I am correct is 30 days..

some light banter between the judge and senior counsel the judge did make a note and directed the gardai present to issue the licences sooner rather than later and the court had made its decision.F

I dont know if I would call it "light banter" about an issue of some serious costs and expenses for the appealents and witnesses.Nor was he senior counsel.

or a court of the state to act in such a professional and independent manner is truly refreshing and rewarding,thats about it really.

That is at least very true.

Rest of snipped post is intresting.True what they say about th 98% rule and ditch hurlers