Ice Baths

Inspector Coptoor

Ice baths are so last year.

Cryotherapy is where it's at.

Will Heffernan

nobbo wrote: »

When I was lurking about reading your posts I preferred when ya called em idiots, got a bit of a laugh while getting some decent info...

I have grown up now.

davmol wrote: »

You are always appreciated on this site Will,although some dont say it.You dispel the BS and bro science that is all too common on this site and help us get down to the nitty gritty.

Some guys you counter are just hurt that they have been challenged and arent the big man in the gym anymore cos they have been humbled.

keep up the good work

Thanks.

People just take it the wrong way. People need to not talk in absolutes and the best way to learn is to always to be ready to be wrong. I don't just make stuff up...all the things I say are based on evidence both academically and from experience. If people are certain of what they are saying all they need to do is convince me...and by convince me...and I mean show me the research (Muscular Development is not a research publication).

You need to have an open mind because some research is better than others...researchers aren't perfect and you can't look at a single study and go 'See I told you so!'...you need to look at the preponderance of evidence.

Some people need to know when to cut their losses as well.

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I'll agree with the first half of your sentence but not so much with the bit I've bolded. I find that the H&F forum is, mercifully, usually pretty much bro-science free... personally, I think keeping an eye on this forum is one of the smartest things you can do if you're trying to take your H&F seriously. There are some wonderful contributers here (Will included) who really know their stuff and the stickies alone are worth repeated visits. Tis a very valuable resource and has helped me immeasurably over the last 3/4 years.

It is a forum like any other...that is not meant to come off bad. I think some people are scared to voice their opinions for fear of getting bagged or shouted down...which is a pity. They say there's no such thing as a stupid question...which isn't true...but I think the knowledgeable people here are always happy to answer a stupid question if its asked honestly.

I just hate it when people talk in absolutes like what they are saying is fact when it is just their opinion and that just annoys me.

Anyway...I hope more people contribute and ask more questions and interact more.

From my perspective...if I say something and it doesn't make sense or you think or have heard something different I've no problem with either clarifying or discussing it.

I think one of the problems here for people who don't know or haven't met me is that they read my posts in the wrong tone. I am trying to work on that as well.

Hammar wrote: »

Indeed, your input is always appreciated on here Will.

Thanks.

The worrying part of all this, in the GAA section,the same poster started a ridiculous thread but stated

Now i'm not trying to flame,and i don't know what course/college it is,but you would have to question what exactly is being taught in some of these courses when this guy is coming out with such broscience.

I wasn't having a go at the poster...believe it or not...I was trying to help. Everyone has to start somewhere. A lot of people get interested in sports science reading Muscular Development or Health and Fitness or online reading bodybuilding.com or t-nation...that is great. Like I was saying the other day...I've seen Mike Boyle fans who talked the talk and walked the walk...they were completely indoctrinated and immersed in everything Mike Boyle. I've argued with these people online and in person over certain matters....do you have any idea how embarrassed and foolish these people were 3 years later when Mike Boyle does a complete 180...he wasn't as tied to his ideas as theye were....I am using this as an example...it happens all the time you need to understand the basics, you need to put them into practice, you can't get tied down to stuff you don't really understand.

I hope that poster takes it in the 'right way'...I mean asks more questions, does more reading, gains more experience.

Chancer3001 wrote: »

*jumps headfirst into the discussion*

Only thing Ive heard (from a decent source that is) regarding Ice baths is that they may actually stop the "little tears" in the muscle after a heavy session.

Stopping the tears isnt what you want though, becuase you need them to be built back up to get the muscle bigger.


I was only really listening to this conversation, not really taking part cos I have no intention in the world ever ever ever of jumping into an ice bath.

I think I'd die.

Always be jumping in.

I've had this discussion with lots of people as well.

Lets think this through...I will put this down quick but if it's not enough let me know and I will go into more detail.

Did you read what I wrote earlier? If we just look at ice bath vs hot tub to keep it simple and have the two extremes.

Important Point - Hot water immersion doesn't cause an increase in blood flow in the muscle...it decreases it.

Important Point - Cold water immersion actually does the opposite...in that it decreases peripheral blood flow and actually INCREASES the blood flow IN the muscle.

What can we take from this?

The argument goes like this....don't use ice baths because it reduces inflammation....you need inflammation....inflammation is damaged muscle and activity with regards healing and you need damaged muscle and healing activity to have a response and adapt etc etc.

The problem with that argument is this....in the ice bath you are decreasing peripheral blood flow but you are increasing the blood flow and activity inside the muscle...you want fresh nutrients, you want the cleaning away of debris, you want healing activity...you get all those.

I was serious before when I said I hate ice baths. I never use them and it is one of those things that I don't talk to athletes about because if you like them and think they are great...I want you to use them and feel awesome.

If you don't like them then I am not going to force you into them because I don't want you to feel like ****.

Ive always loved hot tubs and when I was at the AIS I used them after every session....I'd sit in the hot tub for 5 minutes then jump into the plunge pool beside it. This was great. I felt great and that was more important than any physiological effect it had.

As with everything and anything training related....for example...I know I should consume 0.3-0.5g/kg of protein and 0.3-1.5g/kg of carbohydrate post training....sometimes I do most times I don't....guess what...my muscles don't fall off, my performance neither goes up now down...the most important thing is that you try to do the right things as often as possible.

Anyway...saying hot tubs are universally bad is retarded, saying ice baths are universally bad is retarded.....as with everything in the health and fitness industry it's a pendulum and it swings from one side to the other...the safest place to be is right in the middle.