Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

SF now the largest political party in the north.

12357…24

Comments

  • #122
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    TommyT wrote: »
    Firstly it is not up to Sinn Fein to call any poll on the issue of the border.
    Where exactly do you get your figures to back up your argument for catholics wanting to remain part of the UK?

    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

    Check out the religious preferences at the end.


  • #123
    TommyT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭TommyT


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

    Check out the religious preferences at the end.

    And this poll is representative of who/what?


  • #124
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dlofnep wrote: »

    I know it hurts you to see Sinn Féin become the backbone of politics in the north, but you're just going to have to deal with it. Just like it hurt the Boers when Nelson Mandela became the president of South Africa. They once called him a terrorist too.


    I'll agree with that.


  • #125
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    TommyT wrote: »
    And this poll is representative of who/what?

    He doesn't know. I contacted them about a year ago to ask what constituencies they polled, and what areas of the constituencies they polled. They didn't have an answer.


  • #126
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    TommyT wrote: »
    And this poll is representative of who/what?

    You get the poll - then you dismiss them when it reveals results you do not like.


  • Advertisement
  • #127
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Well, you don't get to decide who the electorate can vote for. And unlucky for you, Sinn Féin are now the largest party in the north. Which means that they were doing exactly what the people wanted - engaging in the peace process, devolving power and working on behalf on their constituents.
    Are they though ? I have a strong suspicion Catholics voted for Sinn Fein on either Sectarian or Nationalist grounds rather then an informed vote on their policies.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    I know it hurts you to see Sinn Féin become the backbone of politics in the north,
    Indeed it does hurt me when ex-terrorists and socialist/nationalists get into power.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Just like it hurt the Boers when Nelson Mandela became the president of South Africa. They once called him a terrorist too.
    Nelson Mandela is a great man. Don't even dare compare him to Martin McGuinness.


  • #128
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Are they though ? I have a strong suspicion Catholics voted for Sinn Fein on either Sectarian or Nationalist grounds rather then an informed vote on their policies.

    What a convenient suspicion! A very uninformed suspicion, but convenient nonetheless.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nelson Mandela is a great man. Don't even dare compare him to Martin McGuinness.

    Both engaged in armed struggle against a system that could never afford their people a fair shot. I also think Nelson is a great man, but he was the leader of the Umkhonto we Sizwe which used the exact same tactics as the IRA.

    So it is very convenient for you to consider one great, and the other not so much.


  • #129
    TommyT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭TommyT


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    You get the poll - then you dismiss them when it reveals results you do not like.

    If the poll had any credibility you may have a point, but as it stands you are clutching at straws here. It seems like something a child would do for a school project.


  • #130
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

    Check out the religious preferences at the end.
    As I've said before, there are people who would support devolved government with a view to Irish unity, not necessarily to stay within the UK. This isn't accounted for in the poll. That poll is fairly meaningless Happy Monday and it has been circulated on here so many times as if it's some kind of conclusive refutation of prospective Irish unity, which it isn't.

    Here are the technical notes:
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/tech08.pdf


  • #131
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So it is very convenient for you to consider one great, and the other not so much.
    Convenient? It's downright hypocritical! :p


  • Advertisement
  • #132
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Who did you vote for?

    Why would it not be a great day for the leading republican party in the north, which endorses the peace process and devolved power for the people not be a great day for the rest of us?


    in my mind thier is something worrying about the fact that while peter robinson undoubtabley lost his seat due to the scandal surrounding his and his wifes private affairs ( no pun intended ) , gerry adams vote actually went up despite the fact that he knowingly allowed a paedophile be involved in grass roots party organisation , it seems to me that sinn fein voters can overlook almost anything when it comes to thier representitives


  • #133
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What a convenient suspicion! A very uninformed suspicion, but convenient nonetheless.
    So you believe there is another reason a far-left/Social Democratic party got into power ?

    If you disagree with my suspicion that is fine. But I would like to see a a report on how many Protestant voted for them. I doubt such information would be released however. I could be wrong on that but I doubt it.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Both engaged in armed struggle against a system that could never afford their people a fair shot. I also think Nelson is a great man, but he was the leader of the Umkhonto we Sizwe which used the exact same tactics as the IRA.
    They are nowhere near the same. Mandela wanted to create a "Rainbow Nation", the exact opposite of Nationalism. Sinn fein want to bring the North into the Rep. Two very different positions.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    So it is very convenient for you to consider one great, and the other not so much.
    Yes, very convenient. Especially since I make a note of not considering Terrorist leaders "great".


  • #134
    ghostdancer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yea, just a pity they were terrorists...

    a bit like FF and FG used to be....


  • #135
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    ghostdancer wrote: »
    a bit like FF and FG used to be....
    That generation of FF and FG are now dead.

    The terrorists in Sinn Fein are very much alive and are being voted into power across the border.


  • #136
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Stabshauptmann wrote: »
    lol. Is there a medal going for biggest cop out to a question ever?

    I voluntarily waste a good deal of time reading and posting here, but there is no way that I am prepared to put in the amount of effort involved to explain my reasons for disapproving of Sinn Féin to a Sinn Féin supporter.

    [Or is your objection to my refusing to say for whom I have voted?]


  • #137
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    If those people are want a united Ireland that desperately why can't they just move down south so bloody simple... If there was a referndum it should be by the cobstuencies as the Derry one would make us join Ireland even though that is only a small part of the county!


  • #138
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    So you believe there is another reason a far-left/Social Democratic party got into power ?

    They got into power because they work hard on behalf of their constituents, worked hard at implementing the peace process and have continued to devolve power to the north. But if it helps you sleep at night to conjure up alternatives, then by all means - go for it. I'm not the thought-police.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If you disagree with my suspicion that is fine. But I would like to see a a report on how many Protestant voted for them. I doubt such information would be released however. I could be wrong on that but I doubt it.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They are nowhere near the same. Mandela wanted to create a "Rainbow Nation", the exact opposite of Nationalism. Sinn fein want to bring the North into the Rep. Two very different positions.

    What convenient descriptions.

    Actually - Sinn Féin wants to unify Ireland. It doesn't want to bring anything into anything. It also wants to integrate unionists into it. Just like Nelson Mandela wanted to integrate the white community into a new South Africa.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, very convenient. Especially since I make a note of not considering Terrorist leaders "great".

    Mandela engaged in what is described as terrorist activities. You stated he was great. So yes, it is convenient.


  • #139
    Happy Monday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭Happy Monday


    TommyT wrote: »
    If the poll had any credibility you may have a point, but as it stands you are clutching at straws here. It seems like something a child would do for a school project.

    Show me any poll showing the vast majority of Catholics who support a UI. I accept that 100% of SF voters would support a UI but there is a significant % of middle class Catholic SDLP voters who wish NI to remain part of the UK - subvention of GBP5bn annually, public sector and NHS are the key reasons for this support. Show me the poll.


  • #140
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    If those people are want a united Ireland that desperately why can't they just move down south so bloody simple... If there was a referndum it should be by the cobstuencies as the Derry one would make us join Ireland even though that is only a small part of the county!

    Ah, you've just been introduced to the process known as ethnic cleansing. You might forgive me if I'm being obtuse - but ethnic cleansing is a big no-no in modern society.


  • #141
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    danbohan wrote: »
    they must have interviewed Catholics living on shankill road , you better find more accurate sources . not all catholics want a 32 county republic , not all protestants want union with uk , but not 39% on either side , prob more like 3%

    You people are so biased you make me angry!? That is true in belfast but not here they don't go on like that here they vote for who they want.. Btw dup is largest it has most seats..


  • Advertisement
  • #142
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I voluntarily waste a good deal of time reading and posting here, but there is no way that I am prepared to put in the amount of effort involved to explain my reasons for disapproving of Sinn Féin to a Sinn Féin supporter.

    Pardon me for extending an open dialog with you.

    I was curious as to whom you see as an alternative? Given that Sinn Féin is firmly engaged in the peace process, is working very hard on behalf of their constituents and working on many cross-community campaigns to ensure stability and create a basis for mutual understanding.

    Or can you not see beyond 1996? I'm genuinely curious.


  • #143
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Happy Monday wrote: »
    ...but there is a significant % of middle class Catholic SDLP voters who wish NI to remain part of the UK - subvention of GBP5bn annually, public sector and NHS are the key reasons for this support. Show me the poll.
    I genuinely don't know any SDLP voters who actively wish for the maintenance of the union. If they do, they're voting for the wrong party.


  • #144
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    owenc wrote: »
    You people are so biased you make me angry!? That is true in belfast but not here they don't go on like that here they vote for who they want.. Btw dup is largest it has most seats..
    Where's 'here'? And again, exactly who do you claim to be speaking on behalf of? The DUP has the most seats, but Sinn Féin got the most votes. Hence, Sinn Féin are the largest party.


  • #145
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Where's 'here'? And again, exactly who do you claim to be speaking on behalf of? The DUP has the most seats, but Sinn Féin got the most votes. Hence, Sinn Féin are the largest party.



    How do you figure that out?


  • #146
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Actually - Sinn Féin wants to unify Ireland. It doesn't want to bring anything into anything. It also wants to integrate unionists into it. Just like Nelson Mandela wanted to integrate the white community into a new South Africa.

    Mandela engaged in what is described as terrorist activities. You stated he was great. So yes, it is convenient.
    There is an important difference between Mandela and Sinn Fein pre-GFA. Mandela had the support of the people he claimed to represent. The IRA purported to represent the Irish people, even though it was patently obvious that they had no authority to do so. They were even arrogant enough to declare themselves to be the legitimate government of Ireland.


  • #147
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No it isn't, Shinn Féin are ex-terrorists. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the halls of power.

    Aha!?! And Labour, all the other parties have not had their "terrorist" beginnings!?! (minus the Greens of course) And they may have left them behind for now, but they are all planning their 2016 celebration of said "terrorism". And even the Tubrity's are proud of their repubilcan heritage and their part to play in Irelands freedom.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Are they though ? I have a strong suspicion Catholics voted for Sinn Fein on either Sectarian or Nationalist grounds rather then an informed vote on their policies.

    I was on the Falls road in Belfast during the election campaign, the people of the Norht know exactly what SF are about, and they seemed delighted to see Gerry at their doors. And if the people of the North wanted to vote Nationalist, but not SF, there is always the SDLP!

    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Indeed it does hurt me when ex-terrorists and socialist/nationalists get into power.

    Gerry Adams was never convicted of terrorist acts. Where are you pulling such a claim from.

    McGuinness had been convicted of such crimes, did his time and now wants to be part of a political solution. He has as much right to do that as the former Unionist terrorists he sits across the table from.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Nelson Mandela is a great man. Don't even dare compare him to Martin McGuinness.

    But he was deemed a terorist too, so he would be deemed closer to Gerry in my eyes, as Gerry was never proven to be involved in such acts either!


  • #148
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    DoireNod wrote: »
    I genuinely don't know any SDLP voters who actively wish for the maintenance of the union. If they do, they're voting for the wrong party.

    My granny does! My mums also catholic and she voted unionists.


  • #149
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    How do you figure that out?

    Sinn Féin: 171,942 votes
    DUP: 168,216 votes

    Which means that more people voted for Sinn Féin than any other party.


  • #150
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    How do you figure that out?
    Sinn Féin: 171,942
    DUP: 168,216
    SDLP: 110,970

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/election2010/results/region/6.stm


  • Advertisement
  • #151
    DoireNod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    owenc wrote: »
    My granny does! My mums also catholic and she voted unionists.
    Ask your granny why she's voting for a nationalist party if she wants to see the maintenance of the union.


Advertisement