SGU 1x16 "Sabotage" **SPOILERS**

BaconZombie

Best shot of the Chair so far:

DingChavez

johnnysmack wrote: »

They were supposed to have gone out of range of the gate when they went to FTL.

They never said they were out of range. If they were Rush would have been more surprised that the gate activated. Instead he was very calm and knew it was them. They even redialled the planet. They definitely weren't out of range.

Overheal

DingChavez wrote: »

They never said they were out of range. If they were Rush would have been more surprised that the gate activated. Instead he was very calm and knew it was them. They even redialled the planet. They definitely weren't out of range.

That doesnt make sense though. Destiny's FTL allows it to receive incoming wormholes. This is already established. So why werent they able to get a lock?

don ramo

Overheal wrote: »

That doesnt make sense though. Destiny's FTL allows it to receive incoming wormholes. This is already established. So why werent they able to get a lock?

its a known fact you have to be stationary to recieve or dial a wormhole, stargate 101

solid ep, i thought anyway

Kiith

BaconZombie wrote: »

Best shot of the Chair so far:

Your looking at the chair?

stevenmu

Overheal wrote: »

That doesnt make sense though. Destiny's FTL allows it to receive incoming wormholes. This is already established. So why werent they able to get a lock?

Can it though? When they first got on board I thought the ship was not going FTL. IIRC when they first dialed the address it failed and I think it was implied that the first dial failed because the ship was at FTL and the second succeeded because it was not?

The Don

It was a decent episode but I felt the deux-ex way they brought back the guys was a little convenient. Not sure where the alien could have taken over Lt. James as after she came back she said that she couldn't do it so it was her at that stage. There might be something to the theory that someone else sabotaged the drives and informed the planets where abouts to the Lucian alliance.

More sides to Rush again in this episode. I doubt we'll get any real answer about what happened to Franklin in the next episode.

Did anyone else think that Camile was going to die in disabled doctor's body?

don ramo

stevenmu wrote: »

Can it though? When they first got on board I thought the ship was not going FTL. IIRC when they first dialed the address it failed and I think it was implied that the first dial failed because the ship was at FTL and the second succeeded because it was not?

if the ship is in FT, then theres is no point of origin, if theres no point of origin then the gate doesnt work, i think at one stage you had to be within range of a planet to get a point of origin, but later when they went into space the could get a point of origin by useing the stars, they had to find six surrounding stars,

thinking about it destiny must not have left the galaxy, because a gate address is done by useing six symbols represented by stars to find a gate thats around the center of those six stars intersecting, so no stars no gate address,

anyone smell a continuity error

Kiith

don ramo wrote: »

anyone smell a continuity error

A wizard did it. :rolleyes:

helimachoptor

they had left the galaxy, sure it was floating between them and was shown like this in the show!

Memnoch

What a rubbish episode. I just can't tolerate any more of this body swap nonsense anymore.

Firstly, I thought they couldn't use the stones, because the aliens had one closer to them and the use would swap them with the aliens who used the stone to sabotage Destiny already.

But quite apart from the glaring plotholes is this whole body swap sexcapade nonsense. I can't imagine that the people who volunteer for the swap, consent to having their bodies used to have sex with whoever the temporary inhabitant chooses. That's practically rape. It's idiotic, lazy and cheap story telling.

I've enjoyed the last few episodes, but this was just stupid.

FreudianSlippers

The Don wrote: »

Did anyone else think that Camile was going to die in disabled doctor's body?

Yeah, I kept thinking that the whole time!

DingChavez

don ramo wrote: »

if the ship is in FT, then theres is no point of origin, if theres no point of origin then the gate doesnt work, i think at one stage you had to be within range of a planet to get a point of origin, but later when they went into space the could get a point of origin by useing the stars, they had to find six surrounding stars,

thinking about it destiny must not have left the galaxy, because a gate address is done by useing six symbols represented by stars to find a gate thats around the center of those six stars intersecting, so no stars no gate address,

anyone smell a continuity error

The gate on destiny doesn't need to be near a planet, it just needs to be stopped and in range. They were outside the Galaxy but close enough for a connection.

don ramo

DingChavez wrote: »

The gate on destiny doesn't need to be near a planet, it just needs to be stopped and in range. They were outside the Galaxy but close enough for a connection.

you still need coordinates, and the cordinates are generated by using the stars, its like daniel explained with a cube, it has six sides, pick a point on each side(each point representing a star) and draw a line to the point on the opposite side of the cube, youll have 3 lines intersecting each other at one point, and that point is your destination, enter your point of origin, and bang you have a connection,

there are no stars between galaxies, so what are you suppose to use to get coordinates, space dust?

it a continuty error,

TheKells

The Don wrote: »

Did anyone else think that Camile was going to die in disabled doctor's body?

Well I was hoping she was, if that counts?!:D

Overheal

stevenmu wrote: »

Can it though? When they first got on board I thought the ship was not going FTL. IIRC when they first dialed the address it failed and I think it was implied that the first dial failed because the ship was at FTL and the second succeeded because it was not?

Youre right actually: They were not in FTL when they first arrived on Destiny.

The Gate Wiki states though that Destiny's FTL can receive wormholes. This might be confused information however.

The reason in Air that they only made it on the 2nd attempt was because of Eli discovering the Point of Origin was incorrect... (more below)

don ramo wrote: »

if the ship is in FT, then theres is no point of origin, if theres no point of origin then the gate doesnt work, i think at one stage you had to be within range of a planet to get a point of origin, but later when they went into space the could get a point of origin by useing the stars, they had to find six surrounding stars,

thinking about it destiny must not have left the galaxy, because a gate address is done by useing six symbols represented by stars to find a gate thats around the center of those six stars intersecting, so no stars no gate address,

anyone smell a continuity error

Thats how the gates appear to work. But then you have the McKay space bridge. But, thats neither here nor there.

The Destiny Gate Address is Unique. Its not a set of Co-ordinates: Its a Code (Air pt.1) thats why the point of origin for Icarus didn't lock. They only made it through during the attack because Eli convinced Rush to dial using Earth as the Point of Origin.

Its actually very likely the Ancients used Icarus itself (or planned to) to dial Destiny. Theres nothing on Earth with the power to dial it (presumably, Even Atlantis wouldn't be able for it) And the Stargate on Icarus was discovered already in a Dial-out-Only configuration (Air, pt.1) presumably rigged that way by the Ancients.

The point of using Earth's origin was symbolic of Destiny's origin. And to ensure virtually anyone with even advanced knowledge of the gates and access to Destiny's address would not be able to gain entry to the ship.

It doesnt matter *where* Destiny is. The gate network will search it out.

Memnoch wrote: »

Firstly, I thought they couldn't use the stones, because the aliens had one closer to them and the use would swap them with the aliens who used the stone to sabotage Destiny already.

That was how Boobs was used to sabotage the ship actually. They would not have used the stones if they didn't have to: Destiny was not going to make it across the void. They needed to bring an expert onboard or face dying slowly in cold space.

But quite apart from the glaring plotholes is this whole body swap sexcapade nonsense. I can't imagine that the people who volunteer for the swap, consent to having their bodies used to have sex with whoever the temporary inhabitant chooses. That's practically rape. It's idiotic, lazy and cheap story telling.

Thats Sci-Fi dude. It asks these questions.

Bajingo

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

Have to agree that Eli & Co coming back was very poorly executed.
Although, I think there's more to it than that. Considering Eli didn't want to send Kino through the gate, I think that they're being controlled in some way by the Blue Aliens.

I dont think so..is'nt it Eli's character to incessantly moan about everything :P..I could be wrong though...

Memnoch

Overheal wrote: »

Thats Sci-Fi dude. It asks these questions.

What questions? These aren't legitimate questions about the human condition. These are weak and transparent attempts at dramatization due to a lack of creative ideas and strength of character/story.

To imply that this is somehow the core of what sci-fi is about, is imo a deep insult to the searching questions that sci-fi has and does ask about humanity.

Overheal

Memnoch wrote: »

What questions? These aren't legitimate questions about the human condition. These are weak and transparent attempts at dramatization due to a lack of creative ideas and strength of character/story.

To imply that this is somehow the core of what sci-fi is about, is imo a deep insult to the searching questions that sci-fi has and does ask about humanity.

I think you've missed it then. Its a hard one to word. I think it has to do with our virtual lifestyle. And what will it come to? Long term relationships with webcams and remote controlled toys? What constitutes intimacy?

So theres that aspect of it. "Okay you're in another woman's body" or "Hey, thats my body you're screwing your wife with" If you were braindead, would it be alright to transplant a paraplegic into your body? Thats an old question.

Then theres mental/emotional chemistry vs. physical chemistry. Does Chloe have more in common with Eli than scott? Is she just with Scott because he's better physically? Did she only kiss Eli while he was in a more attractive body (of an airmen)? And was Eli's physical failings the only thing keeping those two from hitting it off?

Plenty to mull over when you think about it. But back to this: if you were braindead, would it be alright for someone else to be transplanted into your body? Is it still yours? Does it matter what happens to your body when you no longer posses it?

Memnoch

Overheal wrote: »

I think you've missed it then...

I think you're just seeing something where there's nothing. What you're not getting is that this has nothing to do with philosophical thought. They're just sticking people in other's people's bodies and sending them on their merry way, completely ignoring the fact that in that sort of situation there would obviously be rules that would have to be followed, consent that would have to be given.

But rather than trying to tackle the issues, they're jumping over them completely in order to create some false drama.

GarethWA

Memnoch wrote: »

I think you're just seeing something where there's nothing. What you're not getting is that this has nothing to do with philosophical thought. They're just sticking people in other's people's bodies and sending them on their merry way, completely ignoring the fact that in that sort of situation there would obviously be rules that would have to be followed, consent that would have to be given.

But rather than trying to tackle the issues, they're jumping over them completely in order to create some false drama.

In that sort of situation there probably would be rules, but you have to remember that these people are stranded billions of light-years from earth and their lives they had to leave behind. I don't think it would seem fair to give them the opportunity to visit home, only to be confined to a certain place, or handed something that says you cannot express yourself as you normally would back home.

With that in mind, the people that use the stones are volunteers, and i'm sure they are made aware of what happens when the stones are activated, and how someone else can use their body as they wish.

Memnoch

GarethWA wrote: »

With that in mind, the people that use the stones are volunteers, and i'm sure they are made aware of what happens when the stones are activated, and how someone else can use their body as they wish.

Sorry, I find that totally and utterly unbelievable and don't buy it for a second.

Bajingo

Memnoch wrote: »

I think you're just seeing something where there's nothing. What you're not getting is that this has nothing to do with philosophical thought. They're just sticking people in other's people's bodies and sending them on their merry way, completely ignoring the fact that in that sort of situation there would obviously be rules that would have to be followed, consent that would have to be given.

But rather than trying to tackle the issues, they're jumping over them completely in order to create some false drama.

I disagree..we see this when Rush refuses to have sex with the scientist because she's in Cams body (and also due to his wife)..but it's obvious the writers wanted these questions to be asked by viewers because they're using the stones so much in the series..

Memnoch

Bajingo wrote: »

I disagree..we see this when Rush refuses to have sex with the scientist because she's in Cams body (and also due to his wife)..but it's obvious the writers wanted these questions to be asked by viewers because they're using the stones so much in the series..

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just think it's lazy writing. There should be strict rules to begin with about what you can and can't do with someone else's body, THEN you can have people starting to break those rules or not. But the way they have written it is as if there are no rules whatsoever to begin with and it's basically down to the characters.

This is very hollow drama.

Kiith

I had actually thought that Rush was gonna sleep with Mandy, and have them either go to or drop out of FTL. Que Camile having a sweaty Rush on top of her. Not exactly a picture any lesbian wants. :P

Overheal wrote: »

Is she just with Scott because he's better physically? Did she only kiss Eli while he was in a more attractive body (of an airmen)?

I thought Chloe didnt actually kiss Eli (in other guy's body). Wasnt that only in Eli's head?

FreudianSlippers

Memnoch wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just think it's lazy writing. There should be strict rules to begin with about what you can and can't do with someone else's body, THEN you can have people starting to break those rules or not. But the way they have written it is as if there are no rules whatsoever to begin with and it's basically down to the characters.

This is very hollow drama.

I agree, it's almost a lazy way to bring in rotational characters and love interests as clearly we'll run out of things to talk about regarding relationships on the ship.

Dr. Baltar

Also, had to say it.
Absolutely loved the camera work in the episode showing destiny between the two galaxies.
They looked magnificent.

Overheal

Memnoch wrote: »

Sorry, I find that totally and utterly unbelievable and don't buy it for a second.

Okay.... so back in Earth or whatever episode it was, you think Telford just quietly accepted that his body was being used to screw a complete stranger (to him)? Or that whatever her face is strict-IOA lesbo would just break the rules to have funsies with her life partner?

No doubt if they hadn't considered the possibilities before, the military was aware of the circumstances. I don't think they need to spell it out, tbh. Though they may very well in the future.

Kiith wrote:

I thought Chloe didnt actually kiss Eli (in other guy's body). Wasnt that only in Eli's head?

Nope it actually happened. She was talking about how good a friend he was and - a little drunk - she kissed him.

Then in Time you have his soppy love confession. And ever since the attempted Coup you have her being very worried about the state of their friendship.

Like I said, I think theres a little more going on there. I think she's more into him than she realises, but she's just not physically attracted by him. Im not terribly convinced her relationship with scott is anything more than sexual

Kiith

Overheal wrote: »

Nope it actually happened. She was talking about how good a friend he was and - a little drunk - she kissed him.

[smug]Actually[/smug] :P, i think you'll find that the kiss didnt actually happen, and that it was in Eli's head. He kind of faded out when she was talking about how good a friend he was (dont you just hate that )

Now i feel even sadder for looking that up. I need to get out more... (also, 3 smiley faces is officially too many for a single post)

Anyway, back to whatever it was you all were arguing about...

Memnoch

Overheal wrote: »

Okay.... so back in Earth or whatever episode it was, you think Telford just quietly accepted that his body was being used to screw a complete stranger (to him)? Or that whatever her face is strict-IOA lesbo would just break the rules to have funsies with her life partner?

That's the problem. It doesn't make sense that people would randomnly consent to let there bodies used for sex with whoever, yet the writers have completely skipped over that part as if they have.

Let's take the most recent example. You have a woman in a wheel chair, who's now being taken to this house, to have lesbian sex for two weeks with Cam's girlfriend. WTF? And her "helper" is just standing around and aware of this.

Your saying that the fact that they haven't shown any problems with it, means that we should assume those problems have been addressed. What I'm saying, is that the writers are being lazy and are cheating and completely skipping over the problems in order to get to their convenient drama.

I think the later is far more plausible than assuming that every single volunteer is okay with people going around ****ing everyone in their bodies. Basically they've created a bad precedent in the hope of generating drama without really thinking about the implications and it's getting less and less believable by the day.