UFC 113 ***Live Thread***

Professey Chin

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Well dont to Paul Daley for destroying his career. Absolute scum. Josh Koscheck loved every second of it.

Delighted for Shogun. That was an awesome performance. Great respect for how he stopped when he saw Machida was out.



Does anyone know the name of Shoguns intro?

I am over the moon for Marcus Davis.

Armin Van Buren - Sail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2a_q8F4n-k

Them Brazilians love their trance

scudzilla

MrStuffins wrote: »

What you see here is all after the bell

What a fcukin idiot Daley is, couldn't even drop Kos wit a free one

scudzilla

This is from a post over on Sherdog, now this is a fcukin amazing post seeing as it's from that site

This is what happened to Machida.

He got baited into a move we have seen before, and countered over the top of it. Shogun exploited Machidas counter to counter Macihda.

Shogun fakes a left and then picks off Lyoto with a counter right that he loops over the top of Lyotos counter left. Watch the way Shogun moves his head inside the line of Machidas left, and bring his right over the top, also note how Lyoto's Karate style straight left doesn't protect his head on that side with his shoulder.

MrStuffins

scudzilla wrote: »

What a fcukin idiot Daley is, couldn't even drop Kos wit a free one

Yeah, AND he missed!

When you look at it, it hits Kos' hand!

Although from his track record with Illegal Blows missing, i'm surprised Kos didn't do a Didier Drogba and hit the deck holding his face!

Professey Chin

Absolutely perfectly excuted counter

unknown13

scudzilla wrote: »

This is from a post over on Sherdog, now this is a fcukin amazing post seeing as it's from that site

This is what happened to Machida.

He got baited into a move we have seen before, and countered over the top of it. Shogun exploited Machidas counter to counter Macihda.

Shogun fakes a left and then picks off Lyoto with a counter right that he loops over the top of Lyotos counter left. Watch the way Shogun moves his head inside the line of Machidas left, and bring his right over the top, also note how Lyoto's Karate style straight left doesn't protect his head on that side with his shoulder.

And Greg Jackson, John Winklejohn and Phil Nurse couldn't spot those holes in Machida's game.

scudzilla

unknown13 wrote: »

And Greg Jackson, John Winklejohn and Phil Nurse couldn't spot those holes in Machida's game.

Maybe they had, and Rashad just didn't execute it right, you get the timing wrong and it's goodnight all

Denners

Maybe slightly heat of the moment by Dana to cut him but I wouldn't say it was hypocritical as he signed Shields because what happened with Jake was initiated by Miller and Diaz, and it had nothing to do with the UFC.

I'm getting pumped at the prospect of Daley fighting Nick Diaz!

unknown13

Denners wrote: »

Maybe slightly heat of the moment by Dana to cut him but I wouldn't say it was hypocritical as he signed Shields because what happened with Jake was initiated by Miller and Diaz, and it had nothing to do with the UFC.

I'm getting pumped at the prospect of Daley fighting Nick Diaz!

Daley without a doubt deserved it. It would reflect badly on the UFC if they didn't cut him or punish him. He could get fined by the commission aswell.

YouSavedMyLife

Just watched it now Sunday night and im ****ing delighted for Shogun. Was a great night of fights. Koscheck fight abit boring but the drama more than made up for it.

flynny51

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Great respect for how he stopped when he saw Machida was out.

+1

he stepped off before the ref even got there.

Wonder what kos said to Daley in the last few seconds?

rovert

Good post by Denners. That’s not to say UFC isn’t littered with examples of stars getting hypercritical/preferential treatment.

unknown13 wrote: »

Daley without a doubt deserved it. It would reflect badly on the UFC if they didn't cut him or punish him. He could get fined by the commission aswell.

Wait until a star does it. Dana set a pretty strong precedent here that will likely bite him in the ass.

Zero-Cool

Poor Kimbo but was awful fight.

Hear when Kos was slagging the Canadians at the end and then announded where his after party is and Mike says something like "I don't think anyone will be ge going to that!" hahahaha

Beaming for Shogun, truly deserved!!

cowzerp

scudzilla wrote: »

This is from a post over on Sherdog, now this is a fcukin amazing post seeing as it's from that site

This is what happened to Machida.

He got baited into a move we have seen before, and countered over the top of it. Shogun exploited Machidas counter to counter Macihda.

Shogun fakes a left and then picks off Lyoto with a counter right that he loops over the top of Lyotos counter left. Watch the way Shogun moves his head inside the line of Machidas left, and bring his right over the top, also note how Lyoto's Karate style straight left doesn't protect his head on that side with his shoulder.

He did not feint a jab at all!
he just threw a hay maker with head movement when machida threw his right hand, nothing to do with the counter of a counter...

Hail 2 Da Chimp

cowzerp wrote: »

He did not feint a jab at all!
he just threw a hay maker with head movement when machida threw his right hand, nothing to do with the counter of a counter...

He didn't fake a jab but you can see Machida is still doing the same lunging reverse punch movement in both examples, and parrying Rua's left hand.
Not really a counter of a counter, more of a counter to a reverse punch (Karate version of a cross punch).
Still excellent execution / timing!

cowzerp

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

He didn't fake a jab but you can see Machida is still doing the same lunging reverse punch movement in both examples, and parrying Rua's left hand.
Not really a counter of a counter, more of a counter to a reverse punch (Karate version of a cross punch).
Still excellent execution / timing!

Yes but the videos mean nothing and thats my point, he simply countered a punch, well done to him.

flynny51

Well we know that Shogun studied Machida religiously. It does look like he knew exactly what was coming. It's no big deal anyway

Zero-Cool

Watching it back, Machida looked linda tired and that right hook from Shogun didn't look too clean. I mean, i'm no expert but thought Machida would have lasted a bit longer. At the same time, I spose it shows how much Shogun wanted it and that punch must have done some damage.

Anyone else think Kos will just get destroyed by GSP again and on TUF 12, all the fighters will be hoping to be picked by GSP.

Also, I would have given Fight of The Night to Mickey Rourke and his bird/or daughter!!!

See when the camera went to them and he tried to move her hands around and she goes STOP IT!! and pouts off to the side. Mickey got Pwned. Hope he pulled a Tito when he got her home!

flynny51

sheehy83 wrote: »

Watching it back, Machida looked linda tired and that right hook from Shogun didn't look too clean. I mean, i'm no expert but thought Machida would have lasted a bit longer. At the same time, I spose it shows how much Shogun wanted it and that punch must have done some damage.

Did we see the same punch? Looked like a clean shot to the temple to me. Look at the motion of Machidas head after it.

Zero-Cool

The first punch that knocked Machida, it looked like it bounced off his head and his punch then grazed over Machida's head. Looking back in slo mo, He definitely connected but didn't look very clean. Even in the GIF above, see the way the punch follows through up over machidas head?

Anyway, doesn't really matter as Shogun did the job.

Would prefer to see him fight Rampage next but dunno what training Rampage has been doing while doing the whole movie thing.

Jason McCabe

I was watching an interview after where Shogun said he worked a lot on countering so fair play to him.

Really decent guy and I hope he gets a match with Forrest to avenge that loss.

He also said he is a professional and he would fight Anderson which I thought was a bit of a dig at Machida. That would be a cracker


EITHER WAY I"M FECKIN DELIGHTED

Zero-Cool

Ya read that about fighting Silva, don't think Silva would though. He is having too good a time man handling the MW division. Dana must be beaming with the fight over the debacle that took place before it.

YouSavedMyLife

As i watched the fight in normal speed it doesnt look very clean. But if you slo-mo it you can see Machidas head "flicking" to the side from the impact. And look at his legs. You always know its a big shot cause the brains connection to the leg just goes, even for a split second, the legs just turn to jelly.

I watched the fight twice again and slowed it on exchanges to see who was landing better and it was a pretty even fight. Shogun with more head punchs and a few leg kicks annd Machida with two very nice knees and two takedowns, although the second takedown was kinda Shoguns fault messing his own takedown up.

I think Rashad has a better chance to beat Shogun than Rampage. Rampage being a brawler would suite Shogun down to the ground. But Evans' takedowns could be a problem with him controlling the fight on the ground. As would Jon Jones, but i think he needs a few more fight under his belt before the shot

YamaMotoYama

I want Anderson Silva -vs- Rua... Shogun is a big tough guy and will stand and trade with Anderson. And since Machida won't fight Silva - this is a golden opportunity for Dana to put Silva up against the LHW champ... before there are any rematch talks.

Off topic - I think Griffin's take and give punishment style has caught up with him (his speech is quite slurred now) - and I don't think he would cause as many issues as before for Rua.

Zero-Cool

Got this from mmalinker.com (you can watch all the fights on there)

Paul Daley issues apology:

"I’ve had a long flight home to consider my actions and regret the mistake I made on Saturday. I would like to apologise to the UFC and the Athletic Commission for what I’ve done as well as all the fans and sponsors that support me."

"I would also like to offer my sincerest apologies to Josh Koscheck who did not deserve the cheap shot I threw. He did what he needed to do in order to win the fight and get the job done, and I foolishly reacted to the situation. There is no excuse for my actions and I know what I did was very unprofessional. I was immensely frustrated by a collection of things that took place throughout the fight as well as leading up to it, but I’m certainly not trying to condone or excuse my actions."

"Josh implemented his game plan perfectly taking me down and staying on top of me for the majority of the fight. I was also frustrated about him claiming (and acting like) I knee’d him in the head on the ground when it was clear for all to see in the video replay that I didn’t connect at all with the knee I threw. Then finally, the verbal abuse Josh hit me with in the final 30 seconds of the fight simply pushed me over the edge and my frustrations came out as I knew I’d lost the fight, was unhappy with my own performance and had then been ridiculed by my opponent to top things off."

AARRRGH

sheehy83 wrote: »

"I’m certainly not trying to ... excuse my actions."

"I was also frustrated about him claiming (and acting like) I knee’d him in the head on the ground when it was clear for all to see in the video replay that I didn’t connect at all with the knee I threw. Then finally, the verbal abuse Josh hit me with in the final 30 seconds of the fight simply pushed me over the edge and my frustrations came out as I knew I’d lost the fight, was unhappy with my own performance and had then been ridiculed by my opponent to top things off."

Sounds like an excuse to me.

Zero-Cool

AARRRGH wrote: »

Sounds like an excuse to me.

Indeed! Would love to know what Kos said. The worst thing about it is Kos half blocked the punch and it did no damage. If you're gonna get cut from the UFC, make sure you land the guy on his ass!!!

DrPhilG

sheehy83 wrote: »

Indeed! Would love to know what Kos said.

Rashad Evans asked him on the ESPN after fight special if he had insulted "his momma". Koscheck said it was maybe a bit worse than that but wouldn't elaborate.

Exclamation Marc

Daley had to be let go by the UFC after that. It's the only way you can punish a fighter for what he did. You can't withhold his purse, suspending him is pointless because he probably wouldn't fight for 6+ months again anyway, and if you suspend him long term, you'll probably end up in an employment rights court, so cutting him is the only solution, and let the Commission deal with him.

Although Dana said he'll never fight again because that sort of thing cannot be tolerated, he has re-hired Gilbert Yvel who assaulted a referee (as well as lost fights for eye gouging and biting) for a fight in June against Rothwell, so maybe his conduct will be forgiven in years to come based on this.

But for now, I'm sure Strikeforce is hiring for its After the Bell division.

MrStuffins

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Daley had to be let go by the UFC after that. It's the only way you can punish a fighter for what he did. You can't withhold his purse, suspending him is pointless because he probably wouldn't fight for 6+ months again anyway, and if you suspend him long term, you'll probably end up in an employment rights court, so cutting him is the only solution, and let the Commission deal with him.

Although Dana said he'll never fight again because that sort of thing cannot be tolerated, he has re-hired Gilbert Yvel who assaulted a referee (as well as lost fights for eye gouging and biting) for a fight in June against Rothwell, so maybe his conduct will be forgiven in years to come based on this.

But for now, I'm sure Strikeforce is hiring for its After the Bell division.

While i agree with most of what you say, the Yvel comparison doesnt hold up for me.

His infraction wasn't in the UFC and he wasnt representing the UFC at the time.

Exclamation Marc

MrStuffins wrote: »

While i agree with most of what you say, the Yvel comparison doesnt hold up for me.

His infraction wasn't in the UFC and he wasnt representing the UFC at the time.

Yeah, that is a fair point that I didn't think of

unknown13

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Daley had to be let go by the UFC after that. It's the only way you can punish a fighter for what he did. You can't withhold his purse, suspending him is pointless because he probably wouldn't fight for 6+ months again anyway, and if you suspend him long term, you'll probably end up in an employment rights court, so cutting him is the only solution, and let the Commission deal with him.

Although Dana said he'll never fight again because that sort of thing cannot be tolerated, he has re-hired Gilbert Yvel who assaulted a referee (as well as lost fights for eye gouging and biting) for a fight in June against Rothwell, so maybe his conduct will be forgiven in years to come based on this.

But for now, I'm sure Strikeforce is hiring for its After the Bell division.

Yvel's first fight ever in the UFC was against Junior Dos Santos

sonic.trip

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

I want Anderson Silva -vs- Rua... Shogun is a big tough guy and will stand and trade with Anderson. And since Machida won't fight Silva - this is a golden opportunity for Dana to put Silva up against the LHW champ... before there are any rematch talks.

Me too, however I think Belcher could be in with a possible shout for a title fight after sonnen and Dana said he wanted silva to clean out the division first.

Zero-Cool

Just watched the Marcus Davis fight last night. Fair play to him for shouting out Waterford MMA, that was class, Ye Waterford boys musta been beaming. Good win for him as well. Would love to see a Hardy rematch.

mark.leonard

sheehy83 wrote: »

Just watched the Marcus Davis fight last night. Fair play to him for shouting out Waterford MMA, that was class, Ye Waterford boys musta been beaming. Good win for him as well. Would love to see a Hardy rematch.

+1 for the Hardy rematch.

rovert

mark.leonard wrote: »

+1 for the Hardy rematch.

Not to be a dick but I dont see what is in it for Hardy.

pablohoney87

rovert wrote: »

Not to be a dick but I dont see what is in it for Hardy.

All that matters is whats in it for Dana.

Evil_Clown

pablohoney87 wrote: »

All that matters is whats in it for Dana.

Not really he just cut Kimbo who is guaranteed ratings.....

mark.leonard

rovert wrote: »

Not to be a dick but I dont see what is in it for Hardy.

I didn't say there was anything in it for Hardy. I said I want to see it

MrStuffins

rovert wrote: »

Not to be a dick but I dont see what is in it for Hardy.

A beating!!

AARRRGH

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Daley had to be let go by the UFC after that.

I disagree.

Name another sport where a person is effectively fired for losing their temper and punching someone?

I can't think of a single example.

Sports people make mistakes. It happens.

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

I disagree.

Name another sport where a person is effectively fired for losing their temper and punching someone?

I can't think of a single example.

Sports people make mistakes. It happens.

Mike Tyson's license was revoked by the Commission for biting Holyfield (although it was reinstated after 14 months)

Zhao Sh!tong was banned from football for life from football for chasing and assaulting a referee after a game.

When the final bell has rung, and he hit Koscheck, it's assault, plain and simple. It was a scumbag move, and as I mentioned earlier, how else can you punish someone who behaves like that? Suspensions are useless, you can't withhold pay, you can't fine them (thats the commissions job), so what do you do? Ignore it and give him harsh words? The company is trying to get licenses all around the US still (especially the NY market) and it has to be seen to actually deal with these incidents.

So if he's not going to fire him, what should he do?

Zero-Cool

Look, was harsh but at the same time, the UFC are really trying to promote MMA as a legit sport with good sportsmanship. I don't know the full deal with New York not allowing any UFC events in their city but in further arguments, if Daley was kept in the UFC, NY officials could say they condone this non-sportsmanship behaviour, as an example.

I could just be on about nothing but this decision could help Dana's argument when he is trying to access these anti-mma places.

Sorry if I'm just talking bollix

Jayo_M

Even more to the point than NYC, the UFC are going through hell to get sanctioned in Ontario. The amount of opposition is unbelievable, those people would be lapping it up if Dana had of had a Gus Johnson moment and just said "these things happen in MMA". That's the first thing I thought of when Daley through that punch, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been too far from Dana's mind. Some people still see MMA as human cockfighting, and things like that don't help. It's a young sport and can't really afford too many slip ups like that, and there's been two in such a short space of time. UFC had to take action. In saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of months, when the dust is settled, Daley's contract is reinstated.

AARRRGH

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Mike Tyson's license was revoked by the Commission for biting Holyfield (although it was reinstated after 14 months)

Zhao Sh!tong was banned from football for life from football for chasing and assaulting a referee after a game.

I don't think anyone thinks Daley's actions are anywhere close to biting off part of someone's ear or assaulting a referee.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

if he's not going to fire him, what should he do?

Just off the top of my head, give his purse to Koscheck and ban him from 10 UFCs or something like that, i.e. miss one or two fights.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks Daley's actions are anywhere close to biting off part of someone's ear or assaulting a referee.

I think you're wrong there. I'd say most people, including myself, would say they're all fairly close on the scumbag-o-meter.

I really don't see how you can think it hasn't been dealt with in the only way suitable. The UFC is trying to create a clean cut image around fighting in a cage. A tough thing to do even when your fighters aren't acting like animals. He had to be cut.

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

The UFC is trying to create a clean cut image around fighting in a cage. A tough thing to do even when your fighters aren't acting like animals. He had to be cut.

If you remove the nice graphics, catchy music, slick marketing, etc., the UFC is nothing more than a group of guys kicking the **** out of each other. Yes, they may be skilled wrestlers etc., but bottom line, the goal is to beat up your opponent.

Pretending it's a gentleman's sport or clean cut is ridiculous IMO. And just because Dana is outraged doesn't mean we should be too.

The guy was a dick, and he apologised. He should be punished, but firing him is OTT.

IMO, and I hope most of you would agree with me on this, what Dan Henderson did to Michael Bisping after he was obviously knocked out is much more dangerous and much more scumbaggy. But no doubt if he had of been fired many of the people posting here would be saying Dana had no choice.

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

Just off the top of my head, give his purse to Koscheck and ban him from 10 UFCs or something like that, i.e. miss one or two fights.

But this is the thing, you can't take his purse off him, he's signed a contract, there is most likely nothing in a UFC contract about post-fight behaviour. And banning him from 10 UFCs is pointless because he probably wouldn't fight for 5 or 6 anyway, so your more or less just saying "hey train a little longer for your next fight", and any ban longer than that would probably be an employment rights issue (ie if the UFC ban him for a year or two years but have him under contract, he'll argue that its a restriction on his right to work), so the only remedy is to release him.

AARRRGH

FireballPitcher wrote: »

there is most likely nothing in a UFC contract about post-fight behaviour

You could be right. If you are, they should try to add some sort of discipline section to their fighters contracts.

I really don't think firing fighters for this sort of nonsense is the way forward. It can surely be handled in a more mature, measured way.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote: »

If you remove the nice graphics, catchy music, slick marketing, etc., the UFC is nothing more than a group of guys kicking the **** out of each other. Yes, they may be skilled wrestlers etc., but bottom line, the goal is to beat up your opponent.

Yes, hence the need for the few rules that there are to be enforced stringently.

Pretending it's a gentleman's sport or clean cut is ridiculous IMO. And just because Dana is outraged doesn't mean we should be too.

I'm not outraged because Dana is? As soon as I saw Daley pretend to go hug/congratulate Koscheck and instead punch him I thought he was pure scum and should be dropped.

The guy was a dick, and he apologised. He should be punished, but firing him is OTT.

Not imo or lots of other people's.

IMO, and I hope most of you would agree with me on this, what Dan Henderson did to Michael Bisping after he was obviously knocked out is much more dangerous and much more scumbaggy. But no doubt if he had of been fired many of the people posting here would be saying Dana had no choice.

You're joking right?
What Henderson did was within the rules. Was it classy? No. But it wasn't against the law. People would not have been saying that because it never would have happened as Henderson broke no rules.