UFC 113 ***Live Thread***

AARRRGH

AARRRGH wrote:

IMO, and I hope most of you would agree with me on this, what Dan Henderson did to Michael Bisping after he was obviously knocked out is much more dangerous and much more scumbaggy. But no doubt if he had of been fired many of the people posting here would be saying Dana had no choice.

Seifer wrote: »

You're joking right?
What Henderson did was within the rules. Was it classy? No. But it wasn't against the law. People would not have been saying that because it never would have happened as Henderson broke no rules.

I assure you what Henderson did was a lot more dangerous than what Daley did, and was far more dangerous as Bisping was already unconscious and was punched full force in the jaw.

Obviously you are free to disagree but I believe you are mistaken.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote: »

I assure you what Henderson did was a lot more dangerous than what Daley did, and was far more dangerous as Bisping was already unconscious and was punched full force in the jaw.

Obviously you are free to disagree but I believe you are mistaken.

I didn't say anything about danger anywhere? Going for a bit of a strawman?

Daley broke the rules and the law.
Henderson did neither.

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

I didn't say anything about danger anywhere? Going for a bit of a strawman?

Daley broke the rules and the law.
Henderson did neither.

I can only interpret what you type here.

I said what Henderson did was dangerous and more scumbaggy, and you replied asking if I was joking.

If you miscommunicated your thoughts, that's grand.

I agree Daley broke the rules and the law. I agree Henderson didn't. I am simply pointing out the fact that what Henderson did was in reality a lot worse than what Daley did.

So it doesn't make much sense to me that so many people are outraged by Daley but probably think Hendo is a deadly bloke. But then again I'm not a very emotional person so I tend to see things differently.

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

You could be right. If you are, they should try to add some sort of discipline section to their fighters contracts.

I really don't think firing fighters for this sort of nonsense is the way forward. It can surely be handled in a more mature, measured way.

Well if Daley can't behave in a mature, measured way like he is paid to do, then he deserves to be fired.

I don't see why you keep calling it "nonsense", he assaulted someone after the bell. If he had knocked Koscheck out with the punch or hit him with a dangerous shot, I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune, but you can't measure after the bell incidents on a scale of how bad it is.

If its after the bell, its completely unacceptable. If you don't punish someone harshly after doing this, you're condoning it or accepting it's a part of the sport because people will then think "hey I wont get fired if I give him a smack after the bell". How much hate was there in Tito/Shamrock, GSP/Serra etc but all of these guys knew that you confine your fighting to the cage.

AARRRGH

FireballPitcher wrote: »

I don't see why you keep calling it "nonsense", he assaulted someone after the bell.

Nonsense: conduct that is absurd or contrary to good sense.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

If he had knocked Koscheck out with the punch or hit him with a dangerous shot, I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune

Of course, just like if your auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.

It goes without saying that I would be singing a different tune if we were talking about something different.

FireballPitcher wrote: »

If its after the bell, its completely unacceptable. If you don't punish someone harshly after doing this, you're condoning it or accepting it's a part of the sport because people will then think "hey I wont get fired if I give him a smack after the bell". How much hate was there in Tito/Shamrock, GSP/Serra etc but all of these guys knew that you confine your fighting to the cage.

I agree it is unacceptable. I just happen to think it is an OTT reaction.

Dana White, etc., are terrifed that the UFC might be seen as something other than totally respectable, so have taken very harsh action against Daley. So the problem isn't really what Daley did; the problem is that Dana is paranoid about MMA's public perception. And seriously, two guys kicking the **** out of each other in a cage is not totally respectable. No amount of marketing and flashy graphics will trick me into believing that.

Anyway, there's no point in us disagreeing with each other all day. You believe one thing, I believe another.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote: »

I agree Daley broke the rules and the law. I agree Henderson didn't. I am simply pointing out the fact that what Henderson did was in reality a lot worse than what Daley did.

In reality though, it wasn't.
Henderson did nothing wrong. He fought until the ref told him to stop.

So it doesn't make much sense to me that so many people are outraged by Daley but probably think Hendo is a deadly bloke. But then again I'm not a very emotional person so I tend to see things differently.

Maybe if you were a more logical person you would be able to understand why someone breaking the rules and the law is a bigger deal than someone not doing either.

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

Nonsense: conduct that is absurd or contrary to good sense.

Of course, just like if your auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.

It goes without saying that I would be singing a different tune if we were talking about something different.

I agree it is unacceptable. I just happen to think it is an OTT reaction.

Dana White, etc., are terrifed that the UFC might be seen as something other than totally respectable, so have taken very harsh action against Daley. So the problem isn't really what Daley did; the problem is that Dana is paranoid about MMA's public perception. And seriously, two guys kicking the **** out of each other in a cage is not totally respectable. No amount of marketing and flashy graphics will trick me into believing that.

Anyway, there's no point in us disagreeing with each other all day. You believe one thing, I believe another.

We will have to agree to disagree. I do understand what nonsense means, but it can be interpreted differently and you phrased it as if what Daley did was just silly and throwaway.

There's no need to be such a smartarse about it, the point I was trying to make was that once a punch is thrown after the bell, its illegal. The only reason some people aren't coming down hard on Daley is because he grazed Koscheck and didn't actually knock the guy out. What I was trying to point out was that regardless of whether he knocked him out or grazed him, it should all be treated the same, as a serious infraction by a "professional".

I love how you're deflecting the problem away from Daley, saying the problem isn't really what Daley did, its Dana's paranoia? You're obviously deluded if you think the problem here is Dana and not Daley. Dana is running a business, and it can't be seen to condone or not act harshly on those who break the rules. Daley as a fighter has a responsiblity to his fellow fighter when he steps in the cage, and when he assaulted Koscheck after the bell, he broke that. So why would Dana want a guy in his organisation who will happily smack guys after the bell, or why would anyone want to fight Daley if there was a risk he was going to sucker punch them when the fight was over.

mark.leonard

AARRRGH wrote: »

IMO, and I hope most of you would agree with me on this, what Dan Henderson did to Michael Bisping after he was obviously knocked out is much more dangerous and much more scumbaggy.

I think this was debated somewhere else already, but I couldn't let it pass without comment. Dan had a fraction of a second to decide what he was going to do and do it, his job as a fighter is to finish the fight, what should he have done waited to see if Bisping was okay before deciding to him him? At their level that could have resulted in him not getting the finish and that is not worth entertaining for a pro fighter.

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

Maybe if you were a more logical person you would be able to understand why someone breaking the rules and the law is a bigger deal than someone not doing either.

I am an extremely logical person (to a fault) which is why I have this opinion.

Can you show me the rule which says someone who throws a punch after the bell will be fired?

Obviously, this rule doesn't exist. We all know he is only being fired because Dana is paranoid about the UFC's image. It has nothing to do with how dangerous Daley's punch was. Which brings me back to my point about how dangerous Hendo's punch was. Or how dangerous kicking a downed opponent is (which is illegal, but you'll only be fined one point).

The reality is the punishment is all about the UFC's image, and personally I think that is wrong; if Dana wasn't so paranoid about the UFC's image Daley would not be fired.

If you don't reply with another insult we can leave it at that.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote: »

I am an extremely logical person (to a fault) which is why I have this opinion.

Can you show me the rule which says someone who throws a punch after the bell will be fired?

Do you think if you go into to work and punch someone you won't be fired?
Now show me where in your contract it tells you not to punch fellow employees.

I mean you're wrong. There is zero point in continuing this. You're in the extreme minority thinking that Daley shouldn't have been cut.

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

I am an extremely logical person (to a fault) which is why I have this opinion.

Can you show me the rule which says someone who throws a punch after the bell will be fired?

Obviously, this rule doesn't exist. We all know he is only being fired because Dana is paranoid about the UFC's image. It has nothing to do with how dangerous Daley's punch was. Which brings me back to my point about how dangerous Hendo's punch was. Or how dangerous kicking a downed opponent is (which is illegal, but you'll only be fined one point).

The reality is the punishment is all about the UFC's image, and personally I think that is wrong; if Dana wasn't so paranoid about the UFC's image Daley would not be fired.

If you don't reply with another insult we can leave it at that.

It's absolutely baffling that you keep pointing to Dana as the problem, all he has done is act responsibly for his company and his fighters. The punishment is about breaking the rules, if it was really so undeserved how come no other fellow professionals have come out to support him.

The reason the "rule doesn't exist" is because the rule exists in the common law/statutes that say punching someone when not sanctioned within a sport is assault.

And the fact of the matter is, is that Hendo's punch was within the bell, and Daley's wasnt, and there is a huge difference between the two, regardless of how bad you think Hendersons was, it was during the sanctioned time to fight. and if you can't accept that fact, then watch over the footage of the two incidents, its a matter of fact not up for debate, Henderson wasn't pulled off Bisping and then went back to hit him, Henderson knocked Bisping down and threw in another punch (BEFORE THE FIGHT WAS OVER) to ensure Bisping was out.

AARRRGH

Come on, life isn't back and white. I am trying to think beyond the simplistic "he broke a rule".

As stated earlier, he could have done something vicious in the ring and only got a points deduction.

What he did was definitely scumbag behavior, but if you actually think about it instead of sticking to the "he broke a rule" mantra, it is obvious the issue is how it looks rather than what he did.

Basically he is being fired because he embarrassed the UFC. If you recall, Dana was outraged at what happened in Strikeforce a few weeks ago, so he feels he has to be seen to be taking a tough line.

This is obvious and is why I think the punishment doesn't match the crime.

You have a different opinion. That is fine. I am allowed have a different opinion than you.

YamaMotoYama

I think the issue is that White and all the other backround guys that bought the UFC have had to work hard to get it recognised as a ligimate sport by the various sporting commissions in the US.

Being honest the first UFC shows were a circus in comparison to what they try to portray the UFC as today.

If UFC fighters do not adhere to same rules that would apply to boxers and amatuer wresters alike - then the UFC would not be percieved by the sanctioning bodies in the same way.

Babalu was fired for because he refused to release a choke on a passed out opponent... Daley did a similar act just with his fist.

AARRRGH

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

If UFC fighters do not adhere to same rules that would apply to boxers and amatuer wresters alike - then the UFC would not be percieved by the sanctioning bodies in the same way.

Do boxers or amateur wrestlers really get banned from organisations for hitting someone (or attempting to hit someone) after the bell?

I agree in general with the rest of your post.

YamaMotoYama

AARRRGH wrote: »

Do boxers or amateur wrestlers really get banned from organisations for hitting someone (or attempting to hit someone) after the bell?

I agree in general with the rest of your post.

Well here is an amateur wrestler that got a 2 year ban for showing disrespectful behaviour... (which is a lot less of an act than punching someone!)

"The Swedish wrestler who dropped his medal in protest at the Beijing Olympics was banned for two years along with his coach for “scandalous behavior,” "

http://www.wrestlingpod.com/wrestling-news/w2775/

There was the Cuban Taekwondo guy that kicked the ref in the Olympics - he got a life ban...

http://www.mmatko.com/angel-matos-cuban-taekwondo-kicks-referee-in-face-video-beijing-olympics/

Every sportsman, no matter the sport (contact or none), is an ambassador for that sport - Daley over stepped the mark... and got his due deserts (which is a shame coz I liked his style).

Exclamation Marc

AARRRGH wrote: »

Do boxers or amateur wrestlers really get banned from organisations for hitting someone (or attempting to hit someone) after the bell?

I agree in general with the rest of your post.

I think there is a difference in that the UFC is a promotion and a company that airs fights and employs fighters, whereas boxing and amateur wrestlers don't fight in companies, they just have boxing camps etc.

As in there's no UFC/Strikeforce/Dream/Pride in boxing, its just fighters and their camps and promoters who put on fights.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

To be fair to Daly, how many people here wouldn't like to punch Koscheck in the face?

evil_seed

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

To be fair to Daly, how many people here wouldn't like to punch Koscheck in the face?

what bs!!. daley had 15 minutes to try it and he didnt

YamaMotoYama

evil_seed wrote: »

what bs!!. daley had 15 minutes to try it and he didnt

I fully agree - there's things called rematches... if Daly put his head down and blew through another one or two guys then I'm sure he would have been given another crack at Kos.

Back to Japan with him now!

sonic.trip

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

Well here is an amateur wrestler that got a 2 year ban for showing disrespectful behaviour... (which is a lot less of an act than punching someone!)

"The Swedish wrestler who dropped his medal in protest at the Beijing Olympics was banned for two years along with his coach for “scandalous behavior,” "

http://www.wrestlingpod.com/wrestling-news/w2775/

There was the Cuban Taekwondo guy that kicked the ref in the Olympics - he got a life ban...

http://www.mmatko.com/angel-matos-cuban-taekwondo-kicks-referee-in-face-video-beijing-olympics/

Every sportsman, no matter the sport (contact or none), is an ambassador for that sport - Daley over stepped the mark... and got his due deserts (which is a shame coz I liked his style).

That cuban guy is nuts, gave the ref a right good kick!

rovert

No one has posted about this have they?

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/5/14/1472750/was-dana-white-right-to-let

No wonder Rua fought with such emergency.

Professey Chin

rovert wrote: »

No one has posted about this have they?

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/5/14/1472750/was-dana-white-right-to-let

No wonder Rua fought with such emergency.

I knew he'd had the surgery.Didn't think it was that serious though :eek:

Zero-Cool

rovert wrote: »

No one has posted about this have they?

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/5/14/1472750/was-dana-white-right-to-let

No wonder Rua fought with such emergency.

Nice read, I think this deserves to be discussed more then the whole Daley Kos fiassco. Daley 'assaulted' Kos, actually breaking the law, and doing it inside the Octagon. Dana had every right to get rid of him when he is trying to promote the sport to people/places that see it as human cockfighting (Sorry, someone said this term earlier and it was a good description!)

Now, Should Rua have even fought? I'm not too sure but I'm glad he did and the fact is, he finished the fight in the 1st round against a healthy(?) Machida.

peter p

rovert wrote: »

No one has posted about this have they?

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/5/14/1472750/was-dana-white-right-to-let

No wonder Rua fought with such emergency.

You know when he first stepped into the cage i actually thought he was outa shape compared to wat he is usually like!

rovert

sheehy83 wrote: »

Now, Should Rua have even fought? I'm not too sure but I'm glad he did and the fact is, he finished the fight in the 1st round against a healthy(?) Machida.

cagesideseats editoral line on MMA reports how the media reports MMA it is now really clear that the mainstream outlets and now it seems athletic commissions want to play footsie with UFC over the alternative.

So was the knee injury rumour floated on the pre-show a cover story for the surgery or was it made up organically? Needless to stay Rua with no hyperbole REALLY wanted to beat Machida at UFC 113

rovert

Pointless bump just for this awesome picture:

Professey Chin

rovert wrote: »

Pointless bump just for this awesome picture:

Love that pic.You could see in the video of him arriving home that they had the Pride belt ready(the Gold GP belts look much better then the silver championship ones) and they were trying to give him the belt instead of his daughter for a good while :pac:

Raze_them_all

On the daley thing, if memory serves me correctly a boxer was jailed for hitting his opponent after the bell, granted he was down to his wraps but the case is there, daley's lucky he just got sacked

MrStuffins

rovert wrote: »

Pointless bump just for this awesome picture:

Awesome awesome picture!