Those Little Gripes

Scavenger XIII

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Ramza did, he suggested eight uses of EX per meter.

That's in the context of SF4, where there is just a bar.

Splitting hairs in any case.

Azza

Don't have any issue with focus attack other than the fact that focus cancelling really only benefits the shoto characters, and not charge characters. Its less of an issue in Super as FADC-ing into Ultra is not as devastating as it was in vanilla as most ultra's have been nerfed.

I don't believe for a second focus cancelling destroys footsies or the mid/close range poke game. I abuse Bison's pokes no end. He would be garbage if focus attackes negated them. Its not that common you will land a focus attack crumple off a normal poke. Level 1 focus attacks are easy to land but are hardly what you would call devestating. People who like to abuse focus attacks are throw fodder. I think the mechanic is fine. Its far from useless or overpowering.

On top of that some characters have rubbish focus attacks like Zangief, Balrog and Ken, its very hard for them to land focus crumples at all.

GorySnake

I forgot to mention, when I was practising FADC into U1 with Cody, since after crossup mk - s.mp - c.mp, he hits with the very tip of his hk ruffian which makes timing the FADC a bit awkward. Anyway I was practising it and when ever I did the motion for his U1 (QCFx2 PPP), I'd get an EX Criminal Upper (QCB PP). I even turned on button display in Training and saw I didnt hit a single back motion.

I dont know what could be causing that, it doesn't happen too often. Couldn't be a shortcut problem, I just did QCF x2. Maybe some weird character specific problem.

K.O.Kiki

I read on SRK that if you use cr.HP it auto-stands the opponent.
Might make that HK RK FADC easier to see.

As for the input issue, all I can say is "LOL DIMPS".

GorySnake

Only way to hit-confirm c.hp is off of s.mp, which is apparently a 1-frame link, wouldn't bother with that online, auto-stand is handy though for him to hit the hk ruffian on crouching opponents.

Sairus

One more gripe: When selecting your Ultra it should show the input for it. It's something that I'll get over after a few weeks, but it's really annoying trying to remember the new ones on characters I dont use when a lot of them are different to the standard inputs. I'm looking at you Denjin Hadouken.

Dunjohn

Sairus wrote: »

One more gripe: When selecting your Ultra it should show the input for it. It's something that I'll get over after a few weeks, but it's really annoying trying to remember the new ones on characters I dont use when a lot of them are different to the standard inputs. I'm looking at you Denjin Hadouken.

They're all in the manual, have it open in front of you.

Sairus

Dunjohn wrote: »

They're all in the manual, have it open in front of you.

I do. It irks me that I have to. 3S had them on the character select screen and it was lovely.

Dunjohn

Pfft. 3S is in the past, man.

Dreddybajs

RIP 3s and sensible 2d fighting game players

Ramza

Dreddybajs wrote: »

RIP 3s and sensible 2d fighting game players

It really is the age of anti excellence

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

RIP 3s and sensible 2d fighting game players

RIP 3S and sensible 2d fighting game players???

Hang on a sec, do you mean to tell me that there was actually a 3S scene or any 2D fighting game scene before SF 4 game along?

Ramza wrote:

It really is the age of anti excellence

The Street Fighter 4 series is excellent. Its just not as good as ST or 3S in terms of gameplay.

But it has other considerable advantages over the older games in the series, namely offical online play. This allowed the community to get into contact with each other and go from there.

3S was a commerical failure. Released into arcades when they where in decline (and non exsistent in Ireland to begin with). The home console releases where not arcade perfect and more importantly where released on generation of consoles where online play was not the norm and only being introduced. Only the Xbox version had online play (which has been now discontinued).

Alot of the people who played SF 2 when they where young never even heard of the Street Fighter 3 games. So along comes SF 4 having all the old characters and moves they remember from their childhood after such a long peroid of time, they where pretty excited for the game, and they buzz they generated around the game helped attract people who never really played SF games at all but knew of its name and its reputation. Most people where very unfamilar with the deep machinic of fighting games as they did not play ST or 3S at a high level (or where even aware of it). They had no point of reference to compare it too.

So yes maybe the older games in the series have more complexity and depth to them but you can't blame people for liking SF 4. Its still a good game. Its got enough depth and its quite accessible. A community was never going to built around games running on GGPO and 2DF/Supercade. Alot of console players never even heard of them until they met up with the community. Experienced players may be able to compare the series and conclude yeah SF 4 the weakest of the litter, but the community is already formed around it. I'm sure people will dabble with the older games in the series, and the few that use to play them reguarly enough will continue to do so. One or two might even try and get good at them. But it will be hard to build a significant skilled player base for these games, most players will stick with what they know. Experienced players may be instantly to see the depth behind the older games but for newcomers unless you spend a considerable deal of time learning SF 3 your not going notice. Your not going get new blood through GGPO 2DF/Supercade. But new people will continue to appear with the SF 4 series. All you can do is introduce them to the old games but most people will invest most of their time in SF 4, its only natural.

Ramza

A game can still be sensible/more enjoyable and still not have a big following or scene

Azza wrote: »

3S was a commerical failure. Released into arcades when they where in decline (and non exsistent in Ireland to begin with). The home console releases where not arcade perfect and more importantly where released on generation of consoles where online play was not the norm and only being introduced. Only the Xbox version had online play (which has been now discontinued).

Alot of the people who played SF 2 when they where young never even heard of the Street Fighter 3 games. So along comes SF 4 having all the old characters and moves they remember from their childhood after such a long peroid of time, they where pretty excited for the game, and they buzz they generated around the game helped attract people who never really played SF games at all but knew of its name and its reputation. Most people where very unfamilar with the deep machinic of fighting games as they did not play ST or 3S at a high level (or where even aware of it). They had no point of reference to compare it too.

So yes maybe the older games in the series have more complexity and depth to them but you can't blame people for liking SF 4. Its still a good game. Its got enough depth and its quite accessible. A community was never going to built around games running on GGPO and 2DF/Supercade. Alot of console players never even heard of them until they met up with the community. Experienced players may be able to compare the series and conclude yeah SF 4 the weakest of the litter, but the community is already formed around it. I'm sure people will dabble with the older games in the series, and the few that use to play them reguarly enough will continue to do so. One or two might even try and get good at them. But it will be hard to build a significant skilled player base for these games, most players will stick with what they know. Experienced players may be instantly to see the depth behind the older games but for newcomers unless you spend a considerable deal of time learning SF 3 your not going notice. Your not going get new blood through GGPO 2DF/Supercade. But new people will continue to appear with the SF 4 series. All you can do is introduce them to the old games but most people will invest most of their time in SF 4, its only natural.

The bold parts are the parts that I have addressed before and stated my thoughts on. Like I have concluded and posted before, I've always been an avid FGer, as long as I can remember. I never experienced or witnessed an arcade scene or the like, I just used to play offline on my own :pac: But I still loved the games so, so much

I'll keep it short ; for me SFIV is ok ; I don't love it but I don't hate it. My dislike for SFIV is unbiased, it does not stem from my love of other FG. I agree with you about it bringing the old peeps back and getting new people on the scene, and I have commended the game for doing so numerous times in my posts before. And never once have I ever put anyone down for liking SFIV, how could I? Each their own. If someone asks my opinion on SFIV I'll give it, but it doesn't mean I'm belittling anyone else. IMO people read posts wrong all the time, and need to learn to take things with a grain of salt

As far as the community goes, and I've also said this before, SFIV might not be my personal favorite but I enjoy the game enough to get involved in the community and be an active and contributing member etc.

SFIV is just not my game and there is not a thing I can do about that

Sisko

No need for this lads, everyone knows some people like [insert older sf game] more then ssf4 and might make a little stab at 4 every now and then.

As someone who loves 3rd strike and super sf4 I've put up with plenty of jabs at both games. 3rd strike gets plenty of hate from the sf2 crowd on srk.

& in the early days of this forum I was pretty much the only guy on here who liked 3s, put up with a lot of 'just go play 3s then' crap when I'd mention issues I had with 4. There was kiki too actually, then farz got more active and after a while ramza finally joined us, then chunkis. Then dreddy started playing and then tin arrived on the scene and the anti 3s stuff died down.

Everyone has their preferences. I'd hate to see things starting to split up into anti sf4 crowds and anti 3s crowds and shite.

Orim

rabble rabble rabble dey tuk ur game rabble rabble rabble

Scavenger XIII

Every time this discussion starts up I do feel somewhat obliged to point out that popularity != quality.

bush

Azza wrote: »

3S was a commerical failure. Released into arcades when they where in decline (and non exsistent in Ireland to begin with).

Arcades were everywhere in Ireland back in the day. Even my small town had 4 good arcades that were packed for years.

Doctor DooM

Bush80 wrote: »

Arcades were everywhere in Ireland back in the day. Even my small town had 4 good arcades that were packed for years.

I think he means when 3S came out specifically and they were definitely dying out by then ( long gone were the days of banks of SF2 ten wide )

Ramza

Yeah I'm tired of posting the same **** 100000 times only for it to be misunderstood or w/e.

The commercial popularity or success of a game makes no difference to how good it is obviously, like posted before me, popularity is not equal to quality. And yeah it would be a bit troubling for someone to say the older games are not as in depth etc.

I agree with you wholly Azza as can be seen in my last post/last 47627 posts on this subject, so if other people would take the time to read posts and be a little more open minded it would help

And yeah Sisko I doubt something as small as game preference would split a community now :pac: As far as my stand with the community goes I've stated what I think

And in reply to "go play 3s/whatever", my answer is "ok?/I do/I will?"

I can understand new FGers or whatever not really understanding this debate or whatever, and I know it can be a little confusing or maybe even diminishing, but, it is how it is

Sisko

Ramza I must say I'm a little amused at how you tend to kinda imply that only the 'new FGers' like the SF4 series and its the old school long time FGers that know better thus dislike SF4.

The SF2 crowd on srk would come out with the same stuff regarding 3rd strike remember?

Anyway I'm not saying that your out right saying this. Your posts just tend to repeatedly hint that this is how you feel, whether you mean them to or not

Anyway I think all us SF fans should unite , that is the SF2 SF3 and SF4 fans and get snobbish towards those ex plus alpha scumbags.

Play a real street fighter series ffs like.

:pac:

Owwmykneecap

Justice fist!

Also did all those 3rd stike games on 2df mean nothing to you?

" in the early days of this forum I was pretty much the only guy on here who liked 3s"

Boo-urns.

Sisko

Huh? When we played 3s back in the 2df days, that was long before this forum existed. By the time this forum was going SF4 was my main game and those 3s days on 2df were long gone and you were not posting on here yet.

But I did forget to add you to this list of 3s fans that joined in on here eventually, soz about that man


You are one of those ex plus alpha scumbags though after all.


Actually what ever happened to that mylo guy, remember him?

Doctor DooM

Actually, what we really need round these parts to unite the tribes of Capcomia is a dirty MK fan.

Then, our combined wrath would know no fury.

Even the Guilty blue fans and the Koffing Garou would join us in our righteous anger and burning justcis.

Ramza

Sisko wrote: »

Ramza I must say I'm a little amused at how you tend to kinda imply that only the 'new FGers' like the SF4 series and its the old school long time FGers that know better thus dislike SF4.

The SF2 crowd on srk would come out with the same stuff regarding 3rd strike remember?

Anyway I'm not saying that your out right saying this. Your posts just tend to repeatedly hint that this is how you feel, whether you mean them to or not

Anyway I think all us SF fans should unite , that is the SF2 SF3 and SF4 fans and get snobbish towards those ex plus alpha scumbags.

Play a real street fighter series ffs like.

:pac:

^ Exactly what I mean by people misinterpreting posts

Never do I mean that or imply that. SFIV is a good game, don't get me wrong. Me personally I prefer the older series. Anything wrong with that? No. Same goes for vice versa

My feeling was that hardcore or longtime SF players felt SFIV was a little bit of a letdown (again this is how I feel anyway/perceived it). It occurred to me that, not just in our community, but all the people who played and loved older renditions of SF didn't like or play SFIV to enthusiastically , but on the other hand a lot of new players were popping up(which is great). Maybe I'm wrong and everyone loves it, who knows, but regardless my opinion stays intact. You can go and read what I posted on this matter in some other thread (and coincidently got no replies :pac:)

Never once have I ever took a higher ground with it

When I talk about new FGer I talk about what I have addressed previously/other people have ; imo SFIV has attracted a lot of new attention to the game/series/community as a whole, and that's amazing. More the merrier and the more people we have learning a game and getting involved the better I say. And I believe this holds true for everyone

I never would say "oh new people to the series are n00bs and don't know a real game". That's waffle. My dislike of the game has never infringed on anyone else. I just wish people would consider the source or learn more before they go off on a tangent, just saying

I'm just a keen FGer who loves his SF, never would/have I put down anyone for liking any game in particular, so imo the whole let us all unite thing is gibberish, no offense :pac: There is no split in the community, at all. There's just people who like the game and those that don't. Why should opinions matter?

As far as snobbery goes I'm dumbfounded one would even go to use that word. If people really think snobbery exists whether it be from me or anyone else I have pity for those people ; either people should learn to read, form opinions on their own, take things with a grain of salt or at least people should educate themselves before posting what they would label as snobby

Edit : Also Sisko ; me, farz and kneecaps (people who used to play 3s on 2df when it first started etc) were posting on Neo Empire/SRK about online and even trying to arrange offline stuff wayyy before boards FG section opened up :pac:

chopperbyrne

I think most people who played II and the Alpha series were actually turned off by III (never making it as far as 3S) and have come back with IV.

Doctor DooM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I think most people who played II and the Alpha series were actually turned off by III (never making it as far as 3S) and have come back with IV.

This is certainly the case with myself, yes.

Ramza

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I think most people who played II and the Alpha series were actually turned off by III (never making it as far as 3S) and have come back with IV.

Yeah, I stated that in other posts too. SFIII wasn't that popular, but 3s had a very healthy run imo. Regardless of popularity I still love it I'm glad SFIV is attracting who it is, it's all about the community

chopperbyrne

Also all this GGPO/2DF talk :rolleyes: Me and Farz were playing on kaillera!

Ramza

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Also all this GGPO/2DF talk :rolleyes: Me and Farz were playing on kaillera!

Yeah, that's where I first played 3s(online), with Mame 0.117u and Kaillera client, how the **** could I forget :pac:

Sisko

Lol okay ramza lets try and clear this up.

I mentioned that your posts often give off the impression, that you are of the opinion that, only new fighting game fans fully enjoy 4 and that anyone who enjoyed the older fighting games AKA the experienced players AKA the old school players AKA hardcore... only think its ok and put up with it cause its the most popular.

Yeah?

And you say this

Ramza wrote: »

^ Exactly what I mean by people misinterpreting posts

Okay fair enough yet then you go a head and type this:

Ramza wrote: »

My feeling was that hardcore or longtime SF players felt SFIV was a little bit of a letdown (again this is how I feel anyway/perceived it). It occurred to me that, not just in our community, but all the people who played and loved older renditions of SF didn't like or play SFIV to enthusiastically , but on the other hand a lot of new players were popping up(which is great). Maybe I'm wrong and everyone loves it, who knows, but regardless my opinion stays intact.

You just said it again?


I'm not saying everyone loves it. I'm saying there are old school players who love SF4 and new players on the scene that rather the older games.

The like dislike and like is not split evenly between the old school and new.

There are players on here with faaaaaaaaaaar more experience in fighting games then you , people who actually played in the arcade scene, who love the 4 series.

See what I mean? Everything else there you typed has you assuming I'm thinking something else of you btw, your eh over defending yourself there man , I wasnt saying you were snobbish either, again that was not directed at you at all just a general joke. I don't think you were here when the 3s jabs were going around.

Anyway:

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Also all this GGPO/2DF talk :rolleyes: Me and Farz were playing on kaillera!

So was I. I met farz and ramza on there. I was surprised I never ran into you.

2df poped up and I instantly switched to that from day 1.

Never saw ramza or farz much again. Cept on SRK. But encountered kneecaps , mylo ,azza and so on.

Ramza wrote: »

Edit : Also Sisko ; me, farz and kneecaps (people who used to play 3s on 2df when it first started etc) were posting on Neo Empire/SRK about online and even trying to arrange offline stuff wayyy before boards FG section opened up :pac:

Yeah it was like a 4 or 5 month struggle to get these forums up, during which I spammed everyone for help and support. They only got up a while after sf4's release. I asked for it well before HDR was even out.

When we got the boards the scene instantly became a reality.

I remember sending you and kneecaps a number of PM's trying to get yous involved but it was months before yeas did. Although I know you were put off by the whole sf4 thing and you didnt have a console or something as far as I remember.

Back then you were the best irish 3s player I knew of and I mentioned you quite a bit on the forums when 3s was discussed.

But I was one of the few on the boards that liked 3s at the time.