bayonet?

josh79

hi guys just wondering could somebody shed some light on an object i dug up in my back garden 20yrs ago which i pressume is some kind of bayonet i recently found it again at the back of my shed and would like to know more about it any information would be appreciated

Morlar

Looks like a WWI british army 'butcher knife' or field bayonet. Open to correction on this but I think the german ones had a serated/sawback edge back to them.

josh79

thanks for the reply morlar its not very clear but on the left of the pic it has a saw edge and the overall lenght is 19 1/2 inches or 495 mm

Dr Strange

It looks to me like a German M98/05 Saw Back Bayonet.

Have a look here for comparison:

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=33940

Are there any makers markings on the hilt or on the blade near the hilt?

arnhem44

Definitely a German Butcher bayonet.Find anything else while you were digging?

josh79

i found it in its scabbard which i cant seem to find now:mad: nothin else with it dont know how it ended up in a back garden in dublin its not in great condition and the markings on the hilt arent easy to read ill put up some pics of them wen i get the chance

Fuinseog

didn't the RIC have a saw bayonet?

josh79

this is the only legable marking on it witout cleaning which i dont wanna do right now in case i make things worse its not in the best condition as it is i can make out the word Duisburg but thats it no other makings or dates are clear enough to read

Morlar

It's hard to tell with that pic but that seems to be something like

S _ _ LFSBURG ?

Which could lean it in the direction of it being German rather than RIC. I think it's possible it was a war trophy brought home by an Irishman who fought in the ba during ww1.
This might be useful

http://www.seitengewehr.com/Fachzeitschrift/seitengewehr-9805-german-butcher-blade-bayonet/

Dr Strange

I think this is a marking for:

Deutsche Maschinenfabrik

A. - G.

DUISBURG

One of the Imperial German Makers.

They produced two types of bayonets: the 1898/05 and the 1884/98 II.

josh79

thanks for the help guys just one more question should i try remove the rust if so how or just leave it as it is

Dr Strange

Hi josh,

yes, rust should be removed. It would be differnt if it just had a patina but rust will continue to destroy the metal.

There are a couple of things you could do. A very simple and crude method to stop the decay is to place the bayonet into a container with petrol. That removes the salts. It will not remove rust but stops any further decay.

There is always the possibility to safe a lot of the metal, and even metal that is already partly rusty. You would need to emply a electrolysis bath for best results. Many collectors built their own baths but you have to be very careful when doing this. There is a conservator at the National Museum who could do it for you for a fee. I don't know how much it costs though.

You can also try to apply lots of WD40 and use a rough sponge (but not the brillo pad or other metalic sponge type as they are too abbrasive).

Some may use a rotary polisher after treatment. It works well but you would have to be extremely careful because you could easily destroy markings etc. The possibility of leaving polishing striations on the metal are also very high.

Here are some info links on electrolysis for rust removal:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolytic_derusting.htm

http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=repair&thread=15385&page=1#258521

http://www.historicmachineryservices.com/id11.html

http://www.buy-swords.com/sword-rust-removal.html