Waynes World, It's Party Time, It's Excellent

mike kelly

What about "settled travellers"? I've never understood that term.

campo

mike kelly wrote: »

What about "settled travellers"? I've never understood that term.

Basically means you have come from a travelling family but you now live in a house for a period of time and not a caravan so you would be a settled traveller

Raiser

EDITED IN LINE WITH FORUM CHARTER

topper75

mike kelly wrote: »

What about "settled travellers"? I've never understood that term.

You shouldn't have to understand it. It is a contradiction in terms and should be done away with. It is only ever used in the context of trying to make allowance for criminal behaviour, as if you are dealing with a special case. You are nomadic or not.

mike kelly

topper75 wrote: »

You shouldn't have to understand it. It is a contradiction in terms and should be done away with. It is only ever used in the context of trying to make allowance for criminal behaviour, as if you are dealing with a special case. You are nomadic or not.

Fully agree with you. I know so called "settled travellers" who having been living in houses for three generations but they are still offically travellers and get all the benefits.

Raiser

mike kelly wrote: »

Fully agree with you. I know so called "settled travellers" who having been living in houses for three generations but they are still offically travellers and get all the benefits.

What do Travellers live on?

I've an IT Degree and a decade of related experience and I'd struggle to keep up with the lifestyle of newish cars (Golf GTIs, 4X4's etc.) multiple horses, international travel and ability to rent multiple properties.

billy the squid

Raiser wrote: »

Don't go there Raiser, I issue permenent bans for racism. always have, always will.

As for the rest of you. Mr. Dundon does not represent the Travelling community so this should not be a thread about the Travelling community - settled or otherwise.

donutheadhomer

topper75 wrote: »

the Hyde Road.

no such place....... again

Raiser

billy the squid wrote: »

Don't go there Raiser, I issue permenent bans for racism. always have, always will.

As for the rest of you. Mr. Dundon does not represent the Travelling community so this should not be a thread about the Travelling community - settled or otherwise.

Thanks Billy - Don't want to be outside of the Forum rules have edited my original post - Apologies if anyone was offended.

donutheadhomer

mike kelly wrote: »

Fully agree with you. I know so called "settled travellers" who having been living in houses for three generations but they are still offically travellers and get all the benefits.

what do you think all the benefits are? I don't think settled travellers get anymore than anyone else on the dole/low income. Dundons get nothing for over and above anyone else I think.
There are plenty of very poor settled travellers also.

donutheadhomer

Raiser wrote: »

What do Travellers live on?

I've an IT Degree and a decade of related experience and I'd struggle to keep up with the lifestyle of newish cars (Golf GTIs, 4X4's etc.) multiple horses, international travel and ability to rent multiple properties.

suppose most get welfare and work cash jobs on the side. There are plenty of travellers who seem to have lots of money but plenty of non travellers who look minted too and draw the dole. One guy 1 know has been on the dole for 25 years and has been to every away Ireland soccer game and most Munster away/Home games - has own seat in gaelic grounds even but no source of income other than 196pw - drives a 09 passat also but isn't a traveller.

bullets

billy the squid wrote: »

I issue permenent bans for racism. always have, always will.

I would have considered Travellers not a Race but more so an Ethnic group.

While on the subject. Right Now on Vincent Brown
there are discussions about the recent Truth about Traveller's show that aired the last epsiode tonite.


~B

mike kelly

EurasianBadger wrote: »

I don't think settled travellers get anymore than anyone else on the dole/low income.

Department of Social Welfare policy is different for Travellers than settled people. If you had ever been on the dole you would know that.

bernardo mac

Dundon,his gang members and their criminal rivals are enemies of the State and a costly burden in terms of the death,destruction,social misery and ill health they are instrumental in inflicting on society.They are extremely costly to police,imprison and are lifetime recipients of State and Social Welfare Benefits. There is plenty of space in The Curragh and lots of horses nearby. And maybe in time that will be a secure and less expensive solution.:D

mike kelly

How about putting a time limit on welfare benefits? making parents pay for damage caused by children?

Henry Ford III

Is there any hope we could extradite the whole lot of them? Seems the UK authorities kicked them out, so why can't we?

mike kelly

I'm sure that some corrupt African country could be bribed into taking them. Actually I would favour outsouring the legal system in as far as it deals with drug dealers to the Third World. The Taliban showed the world what zero tolerance really means.

bernardo mac

mike kelly wrote: »

How about putting a time limit on welfare benefits? making parents pay for damage caused by children?

Indeed there should be should be strict regulations attached to what is in effect a social contract.There are many law abiding,responsible parents/guardians who are struggling to get by. .Many children are just let loose and allowed to plague and torment their neighbours by irresponsible parents.It's time to enforce responsibility and give them a role in society other than breed and take from the rapidly diminishing cake!

donutheadhomer

mike kelly wrote: »

Department of Social Welfare policy is different for Travellers than settled people. If you had ever been on the dole you would know that.

Any Traveller in receipt of social welfare is means tested
in the same way as the general population. Travellers in
the PAYE sector pay tax in the same manner as the
general population and self-employed Travellers make
their own tax returns, as do members of the general
population. Travellers also pay tax in the form of VAT
on goods and services.
http://www.nccri.ie/pdf/traveller-myths.pdf

donutheadhomer

mike kelly wrote: »

Department of Social Welfare policy is different for Travellers than settled people. If you had ever been on the dole you would know that.

I know there is a question on the forms that asks if I am a traveller but there is no favourable discrimination for travellers. The question may be just for statistical purposes.

mike kelly

EurasianBadger wrote: »

Any Traveller in receipt of social welfare is means tested
in the same way as the general population.

So Wayne Dundon was means tested?

donutheadhomer

mike kelly wrote: »

So Wayne Dundon was means tested?

one is allowed to own property and still be in receipt of welfare. One in allowed own some money and still receive welfare.

mike kelly

EurasianBadger wrote: »

one is allowed to own property and still be in receipt of welfare. One in allowed own some money and still receive welfare.

is one allowed to own a 4x4 jeep?

donutheadhomer

mike kelly wrote: »

is one allowed to own a 4x4 jeep?

I think so.

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You are here: Home > Social Welfare > Irish social welfare system > Means test for social welfare payments > Means test for Jobseeker's Allowance


Means test for Jobseeker's Allowance
In this DocumentRelated Topics
Introduction
Cash Income
Capital and property not personally used
Living with your parents
Total means
Introduction
To qualify Jobseeker’s Allowance (JA) you must satisfy a mean test. In a means test the Department of Social Protection examines all your sources of income to test if they fall below a certain level. If they fall below that level you will get Jobseeker’s Allowance. The amount of Jobseeker’s Allowance you will get depends on your level of income.

In the means test for Jobseeker’s Allowance your household income is assessed. If you are married or living with another person as husband and wife, the means of your spouse or partner are also taken into account. Sometimes a certain amount of income or income from particular sources is not taken into account. Income not taken into account is often referred to as income disregards.

The means test for Jobseeker’s Allowance can be a complex calculation. Here we look at some of the general items that are taken into account in the means test.

The means test examines the following types of income:

Cash income (including income from work)
Property personally used
Capital (savings and investments) and property not personally used
Benefit and privilege from living with your parents.
Cash Income
The means test assesses all cash income that you expect to get in the forthcoming year. If it is not possible to estimate your income over the next 12 months, it is usually based on the income you actually received in the previous year.

Among the cash income that is assessed is:

Income from self-employment
Income from employment
Farm income
Income from a social security pension from another country
Income from maintenance, for example, if you are separated.
Most social welfare payments and Health Service Executive payments are not taken into account. Find out more about cash income not included in the means test.

However, if your are claiming Jobseeker's Allowance and your spouse or partner is getting of one of the social welfare payments listed below, the total amount paid to you as a couple cannot exceed the maximum amount paid to one person (including adult and child dependants) on one social welfare payment.

Illness Benefit
Disablement Pension (when paid with Illness Benefit or Incapacity Supplement)
Injury Benefit
Invalidity Pension
State Pension (Non-Contributory)
State Pension (Contributory)
State Pension (Transition)
Jobseeker's Benefit
Jobseeker's Allowance
Pre-Retirement Allowance (PRETA)
Farm Assist (FA).


Example for 2010
Paul is 36 and qualifies for Jobseeker’s Allowance. His partner Anna is getting Invalidity Pension.

Anna and Paul have chosen Anna's Invalidity Pension as the primary payment rather than Paul's Jobseeker's Allowance because Invalidity Pension is paid at a higher weekly rate.

Claimant on Invalidity Pension (IP) under 65 years €201.50
Qualified adult rate for IP under 65 years €143.80
Maximum payable to Anna and Paul €345.30

Paul will get Jobseeker’s Allowance of €143.80




Property personally used
The house in which you live is not included in the assessment of your means unless you are getting an income from it. If you have rented a room in the house, that income is assessed but the capital value of your home is not.

Capital and property not personally used
Capital includes property (not your home), savings and investments.

If you own property (excluding your home) or you have investments or any other form of capital, the value is assessed, using a standard formula (see below) whether or not you are getting an income from the property or investment.

The property and investments that may be assessed include savings in a bank account (or anywhere else), a house that you have let and stocks and shares. If you or your spouse or partner saves a portion of your social welfare payment each week, these savings as well as savings from most other sources will be taken into account as part of your means.

The formula for assessing the value of capital including property (but not your own home), savings and investments is as follows:

Capital Weekly means assessed
First €20,000 Nil
Next €10,000 €1 per €1,000
Next €10,000 €2 per €1,000
Balance (€40,000 +) €4 per €1,000



If you have a joint account with your spouse or partner, legally the total amount in the account is owned by each of you. Therefore it can be assessed in full against each of you. However, if both you and your spouse or partner are getting means-tested payments it will be assessed on a shared basis or against only one of you.

For example
If you have €55,000 savings:

The first €20,000 is assessed as nil, €20,000 to €30,000 is assessed as €10, €30,000 to €40,000 is assessed as €20, €40,000 and €55,000 is assessed as €60.

€10 + €20 + €60 = €90

Savings of €55,000 gives a means of €90 per week.




Living with your parents
If you are 24 years of age or under and you are living with a parent or a step-parent in the family home, some of your parents' income will also be taken into account in the assessment for Jobseeker's Allowance.

This is called an assessment of the benefit and privilege you get from living with your parents. More information is available on how benefit and privilege is assessed in the means test.

Total means

To find your total means, your means under the various headings (for example, cash income, employment, capital, benefit and privilege) are added together. If you are married or cohabiting you means may be halved - see ‘Married and cohabiting’ below.

Your total household means is then deducted from the maximum payment for your situation (see below) to find the actual amount of Jobseeker’s Allowance you are entitled to.

Maximum payment for your situation

The maximum payment for your situation is the maximum personal rate of Jobseeker's Allowance including any increases for adult and child dependants. However, if you are married or cohabiting and your means are halved, the maximum payment for your situation will not include an increase for an adult dependant and will only include half-rate increases for your child dependants.

Your age can also determine the maximum payment for your situation. More information on the JA rate for people under 25 can be found in our document on Jobseeker's Allowance.

Married and cohabiting couples


Your means are halved if your spouse or partner is:


Getting a social welfare payment (except Child Benefit, Disablement Pension, guardian's payment, Supplementary Welfare Allowance, Domiciliary Care Allowance and half-rate Carer's Allowance)
Getting a Health Service Executive (HSE) payment (except Foster Care Allowance)
On a FÁS or VTOS course and getting an allowance in his or her own right.

If your means are halved, you will not get an increase for a qualified adult but you will get a half-rate increase for each qualified child.

Additional information

You can also find more information in the Department of Social Protection’s Operational Guidelines about:


Cash income as means
Property as means
Means of a couple
Other pensions as means
Farm means
Last Updated: 12/05/2010
Subject Terms: social assistance, social welfare, unemployment, unemployment payments View this document
In English
As Gaeilge
Useful resources
Case study: Maximising a couple's income from jobseeker's payments
Contact Us
If you have a question relating to this topic you can contact the Citizens Information Phone Service on lo-call 1890 777 121 (Monday to Friday, 9am to 9pm)


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/means-test-for-social-welfare-payments/means-test-for-jobseekers-allowance

the drifter

mike kelly wrote: »

is one allowed to own a 4x4 jeep?

mr dundon aside this statement annoys me.....

i own a 4x4...i have been a tax paying citizen for 12 years....after paying for this country for 12 years are you saying i should not be entitled to social welfare if i lose my job just cause i own a 4x4....

mike kelly

the drifter wrote: »

mr dundon aside this statement annoys me.....

i own a 4x4...i have been a tax paying citizen for 12 years....after paying for this country for 12 years are you saying i should not be entitled to social welfare if i lose my job just cause i own a 4x4....

if you have been paying taxes for 12 years, then you are entitled to unemployment benefit so there would be no need for you to claim welfare

Raiser

the drifter wrote: »

mr dundon aside this statement annoys me.....

i own a 4x4...i have been a tax paying citizen for 12 years....after paying for this country for 12 years are you saying i should not be entitled to social welfare if i lose my job just cause i own a 4x4....

Yeah - Its all about you; Hang on and I'll see if I can edit the title..... (???)


I think most sane, fair-minded People think that Social Welfare should adequately provide a decent, fair standard of living for People if and when they need it.

- Also, seeing as they are the People that pay for it, they are just as equally entitled to get upset, edgy and angry if they see it being taken advantage of and habitually, cynically and thoroughly leeched from by any Member of our Society - be that for 40 weeks or 40 years.

Finally - I think we'd all agree that we shouldn't really base our ideals and opinions regarding social welfare on the common variants in the transmission systems of mechanically propelled Vehicles!!!!

donutheadhomer

the drifter wrote: »

mr dundon aside this statement annoys me.....

i own a 4x4...i have been a tax paying citizen for 12 years....after paying for this country for 12 years are you saying i should not be entitled to social welfare if i lose my job just cause i own a 4x4....

anyone is allowed to have a reasonable level of property/cars/stuff. If you worked all those years anyway you would net be meanstested - but rsther go onto JB

donutheadhomer

Raiser wrote: »

Yeah - Its all about you; Hang on and I'll see if I can edit the title..... (???)


I think most sane, fair-minded People think that Social Welfare should adequately provide a decent, fair standard of living for People if and when they need it.

- Also, seeing as they are the People that pay for it, they are just as equally entitled to get upset, edgy and angry if they see it being taken advantage of and habitually, cynically and thoroughly leeched from by any Member of our Society - be that for 40 weeks or 40 years.

like I said above

"" There are plenty of travellers who seem to have lots of money but plenty of non travellers who look minted too and draw the dole. One guy 1 know has been on the dole for 25 years and has been to every away Ireland soccer game and most Munster away/Home games - has own seat in gaelic grounds even but no source of income other than 196pw - drives a 09 passat also but isn't a traveller. ""

the drifter

EurasianBadger wrote: »

anyone is allowed to have a reasonable level of property/cars/stuff. If you worked all those years anyway you would net be meanstested - but rsther go onto JB

sorry excuse my stupidity whats JB?