Another View Of Video Game Piracy

Azza

Piracy on the Xbox 360 is not insignificant but its still several factors higher on PC. Actual sales of multiplatform games is the opposite way around with the Xbox 360 versions normally selling far more copies than the PC versions.

molloyjazz wrote:

This is changing.. id say there is prolly more torrents for Console's than PC, more differnt versions than mac or pc.. Only more PC downloads because the average console head finds it too taxing to softmod a wii or install cracked HD on PS3.. way easier to copy and paste a cracked .exe

Do you have any evidence to back up the first part of that statement. Go to any torrent site and find a game thats on both the Xbox 360 and on PC and compare the number of downloads for each format. Perhaps console piracy is growing but piracy on the PC is far greater than whats on the Xbox 360. As for the PS3 I think piracy is almost non exsistent on that format.

The second part of your statement is true. PC piracy is far easier than console piracy and thats why its considerable greater on the PC than Xbox 360. As well as that users that have their Xbox 360's modded to run pirated games run the risk of being banned from Xbox Live which is something that of course can not happen on PC.

molloyjazz

Azza wrote: »

Piracy on the Xbox 360 is not insignificant but its still several factors higher on PC. Actual sales of multiplatform games is the opposite way around with the Xbox 360 versions normally selling far more copies than the PC versions.



Do you have any evidence to back up the first part of that statement. Go to any torrent site and find a game thats on both the Xbox 360 and on PC and compare the number of downloads for each format. Perhaps console piracy is growing but piracy on the PC is far greater than whats on the Xbox 360. As for the PS3 I think piracy is almost non exsistent on that format.

The second part of your statement is true. PC piracy is far easier than console piracy and thats why its considerable greater on the PC than Xbox 360. As well as that users that have their Xbox 360's modded to run pirated games run the risk of being banned from Xbox Live which is something that of course can not happen on PC.

i didnt mean just the x-box version vs pc downloads.. i meant say one game title.. its console versions (xbox, wii, ps3 etc) vs PC version.. but saying that your still probably right, i had look on a few sites but i dont think looking at current leechs/peers gives me the true indication of how many times something was downloaded completly.. or just the torrent file.

Azza

PS3 piracy is currently almost non existent from my understanding and the Wii's piracy level doesn't seem as high as the Xbox 360's so even combining the other 2 formats with the Xbox 360 not going make much of an impact.

Its rare to get a multiplatform game released on all 4 platforms so its a hard to find a game on all 3 consoles then check download levels and compare them against the PC version. Also sometimes a Wii version of a game might be the same as the 3 versions only in name and game content differs greatly to the other 3 versions.

Looking at torrent's leeching levels is one of the few ways of checking how much people are downloading these games illegally. I'm sure there is a percantage of those downloads which are incomplete/cancelled/corrupted/re-downloaded (just like there would be on the console versions) but just look at the numbers, the massive scale of piracy is beyond question. We are just taking about torrents as well, never mind other forms of file sharing apps.

molloyjazz

Azza wrote: »

PS3 piracy is currently almost non existent from my understanding and the Wii's piracy level doesn't seem as high as the Xbox 360's so even combining the other 2 formats with the Xbox 360 not going make much of an impact.

Its rare to get a multiplatform game released on all 4 platforms so its a hard to find a game on all 3 consoles then check download levels and compare them against the PC version. Also sometimes a Wii version of a game might be the same as the 3 versions only in name and game content differs greatly to the other 3 versions.

Looking at torrent's leeching levels is one of the few ways of checking how much people are downloading these games illegally. I'm sure there is a percantage of those downloads which are incomplete/cancelled/corrupted/re-downloaded (just like there would be on the console versions) but just look at the numbers, the massive scale of piracy is beyond question. We are just taking about torrents as well, never mind other forms of file sharing apps.

ok ill gracefully bow down, your right.. and that last statement you said is soo true, piracy levels are only recordable online.. imagine the true figure when taking into account file sharing over networks, burnt CDs and usb drives etc.

Monotype

I wonder if ps3/ps4 piracy will increase when bluray burners appear in mainstream PCs (and disc prices fall), or is there something else which contibutes to the low numbers?

gizmo

Monotype wrote: »

I wonder if ps3/ps4 piracy will increase when bluray burners appear in mainstream PCs (and disc prices fall), or is there something else which contibutes to the low numbers?

The simple fact that the PS3 has yet to be cracked to play ripped games is the sole cause for the lack of piracy on the consoles.

Otacon

Monotype wrote: »

I wonder if ps3/ps4 piracy will increase when bluray burners appear in mainstream PCs (and disc prices fall), or is there something else which contibutes to the low numbers?

gizmo wrote: »

The simple fact that the PS3 has yet to be cracked to play ripped games is the sole cause for the lack of piracy on the consoles.

Its also the reason why they recently took out the Install Other OS functionality. They discovered it had vulnerabilities in it that could have been exploited to crack the system.

.Moosejam

I think it's time to take piracy as a given and forget about it.

gizmo

Or hopefully they start going after pirate's balls and making the consequences so severe that people don't do it.

And with comments like this from the other thread here's hoping you're first in line. :rolleyes:

Monotype

That sounds like a troll post.

Epic says piracy drove them to consoles. Bit of a shame. I liked the unreal series. Especially the modding element. Hardly played UT3 at all though since the menu system was terrible and was enough to drive me away from playing their game.

At least they're being reasonably honest in saying that consoles is where the money is. Of course it is, with expensive games and so much advertising promoting the PS3/wii/xbox360. Microsoft isn't bothered promoting gaming on windows unless it's on Games For Windows Live (and that's pretty half-hearted) with the xbox to worry about. I thought they were getting somewhere with their experience rating - making it easier for average people to understand.

(This isn't a console bashing post, it's mainly complaining about MS since they're the only ones that can really promote the PC as a gaming platform)

Kiith

Monotype wrote: »

That sounds like a troll post.

Epic says piracy drove them to consoles. Bit of a shame. I liked the unreal series. Especially the modding element. Hardly played UT3 at all though since the menu system was terrible and was enough to drive me away from playing their game.

I can think of a better reason then Piracy as to why Unreal Tournament 3 didnt sell well...

It was ****.

gizmo

Monotype wrote: »

That sounds like a troll post.

Quite possibly, however, if it is then it's a prime example of this.

Monotype wrote: »

Epic says piracy drove them to consoles.

Nice to see them be honest about it alright. The writing really was on the wall for that kind of PC gaming when the likes of Epic and iD started designing their engines for consoles. With CryTek now doing the same it seems to be up to Eastern European devs to really try and push the technical barriers on the platform

Hercule

I have some thoughts on this (not based on any particular study/facts but I feel that a lot of the statistics around this are made up to justify a specific point of view (usually to shareholders) in general I feel developers citing piracy as an excuse for poor sales/lack of interest in the PC market is a cop-out for bigger issues - usually involving the fact they can release any aul shoi on consoles and it will more then likely sell more (at least at release) then on PC

Ultimately I would suggest that a multiformat game that happens to be sh*t will sell 10-20x more units on consoles then on PC. Take movie tie-ins like Iron Man1/2 - these games are absolute drivel - no disrespect meant but I imagine an army of parents ran out to get the game for their kids (without consulting reviews/word of mouth) - and the vast majority would have gotten them for console - sega releases the same sh*t 3 years later for the sequel and it no doubt happens again

I would also imagine in terms of console piracy:

• Xbox 360 piracy is quite low when viewed as "number of individual pirates" but relatively high per game as someone with a hacked/modded console will more then likely steal a very high amount of games
  
• PS3 piracy is almost non-existant
  
• Wii piracy is fairly high - similiar to the xbox , but does not effect the core market significantly as the target market arent very tech savvy and cant pirate "games" like Wii fit/Rock band which require unique peripherals.
  
• PSP/DS piracy is rampant as the consoles are very easy to crack and the files are particularly easy to transfer - the DS's core market (brain training/professor leyton) are unaffected. PSP game sales are weak but its not to do with piracy - the price for generally weak PSP games was way too high at the time of launch - piracy was a symptom and not a cause of this.

There seems to be a massive misconception in how PC piracy operate - along with the simple fact that I buy games worth buying - not because I was unable to pirate them, publishers and developers cant seem to get their heads around that

In terms of PC I may or may not pirate because I can, because its easy, because its free, because for the most part its a victimless crime, because im lazy, because I dont want to pay full price to find out a game is terrible, because developers have prioritised other markets ahead of me, because I dont like DRM, because I wont otherwise buy a game but would like to at least give it a quick blast - at the end of the day I will buy it if its worth buying - do I or a large portion of the PC gaming community care about activisions/EA/ubisofts stock figures - not even a little.

witnessmenow

gizmo wrote: »

Or hopefully they start going after pirate's balls and making the consequences so severe that people don't do it.

And with comments like this from the other thread here's hoping you're first in line. :rolleyes:

Its back to the original argument brought up by this article, if tomorrow there was suddenly no RS, no torrents etc how much would the sales of Pc games go up? Would it be enough to turn the industry around?

Hercule

Lets say the PC games industry is maybe 5%* of total games industry - I would say an overnight miraculous cull of PC piracy would maybe accomplish growth to the total market by maybe 0.5%* - instead of all rushing out to buy games ppl would simply do without the games or do what we used to do (wait for a budget re-release of a game that we kinda wanted but not enough to go buy at retail)

* figures pulled out of my arse based on 10-20 charts ive seen but are conservative imo.

Kiith

Hercule wrote: »

Lets say the PC games industry is maybe 5%* of total games industry - I would say an overnight miraculous cull of PC piracy would maybe accomplish growth to the total market by maybe 0.5%* - instead of all rushing out to buy games ppl would simply do without the games or do what we used to do (wait for a budget re-release of a game that we kinda wanted but not enough to go buy at retail)

* figures pulled out of my arse based on 10-20 charts ive seen but are conservative imo.

It would be a lot more then .5%. Plus the fact that those figures dont include online distribution such as Steam. If we had a complete stoppage of piracy right now, you'd see an immediate small increase in sales, followed by a gradual , but steady improvement. You'd be surprised how many pc gamers are out there.

Developers couldnt use the piracy excuse anymore, which would be nice.

Hercule

well if my ass-manufactured estimates are even a little accurate 1% in growth of the total market would be a growth of 20% for the PC market - At a stretch id say the steady growth and the initial hit from an overnight cease of piracy would not go over 25% increase in 3 years

Kiith

Sorry, i ready that wrong. I'd say a 20% increase in Pc game sales would be about right, and then a steady increase over the next few years. Unfortunatly, its never going to happen. At least not anytime soon.

.Moosejam

gizmo wrote: »

Quite possibly, however, if it is then it's a prime example of this.

I think he was refering to your post as the troll

noodler

.Moosejam wrote: »

I think he was refering to your post as the troll

He wasn't.

It was definitely yours, and rightly so.

.Moosejam

how do you know either way and it's a fair point , whenever piracy is being talked about it's usually about pc games however it's a much bigger problem for music and films yet the column inches devoted to it is much less.

PogMoThoin

Monotype wrote: »

Epic says piracy drove them to consoles. Bit of a shame. I liked the unreal series. Especially the modding element. Hardly played UT3 at all though since the menu system was terrible and was enough to drive me away from playing their game.

At least they're being reasonably honest in saying that consoles is where the money is. Of course it is, with expensive games and so much advertising promoting the PS3/wii/xbox360. Microsoft isn't bothered promoting gaming on windows unless it's on Games For Windows Live (and that's pretty half-hearted) with the xbox to worry about. I thought they were getting somewhere with their experience rating - making it easier for average people to understand.

(This isn't a console bashing post, it's mainly complaining about MS since they're the only ones that can really promote the PC as a gaming platform)

Maybe if Epic prduced a proper game worth buying the pc gamers might buy it. When was it the last time Epic released a proper PC game? UT in 2000?

I don't see Valve complaining about pc piracy.

Greed is killing pc gaming

gizmo

.Moosejam wrote: »

how do you know either way and it's a fair point , whenever piracy is being talked about it's usually about pc games however it's a much bigger problem for music and films yet the column inches devoted to it is much less.

Column inches in the specialist presses perhaps but outside of those, in mainstream publications, I don't think I've ever seen a whisper about games piracy.

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Maybe if Epic prduced a proper game worth buying the pc gamers might buy it. When was it the last time Epic released a proper PC game? UT in 2000?

And Gears Of War isn't a proper PC game why? Because it's a third person shooter?

Also, their last major PC game would have been Unreal Tournament 2004.

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I don't see Valve complaining about pc piracy.

Of course not, instead they've spent considerable resources building up a rather impressive online distribution system in Steam which has curtailed the piracy rates of their games.

Cuddlesworth

gizmo wrote: »

Of course not, instead they've spent considerable resources building up a rather impressive online distribution system in Steam which has curtailed the piracy rates of their games.

As well as a huge revenue share for themselves by cutting out publishers and retailers.

PogMoThoin

gizmo wrote: »

And Gears Of War isn't a proper PC game why? Because it's a third person shooter?

Because the controls with a keyboard and mouse were terrible, it was made to be played with a controller

gizmo wrote: »

Also, their last major PC game would have been Unreal Tournament 2004.

Which was an updated fixed version of UT2003 (with some extra content) which was a reskinned version of the original

gizmo wrote: »

Of course not, instead they've spent considerable resources building up a rather impressive online distribution system in Steam which has curtailed the piracy rates of their games.

Thing is, people don't pirate multiplayer games, Valve recognise this and its the reason Steam works. There are pirate copies of Valve games like L4D, but people just end up buying to play online

Butch Cassidy

I remember when all the biggest best games was out on PC first and the console port was an afterthough and it's really quite amazing to see the whole situation completely reversed.

gizmo

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Because the controls with a keyboard and mouse were terrible, it was made to be played with a controller

True, however it should be pointed out it wasn't ported by Epic but People Can Fly, the Polish studio who are currently working on Bulletstorm. The interesting question is why didn't they do it themselves? I'd bet it was the same reason they designed UE3 from the ground up for consoles, it just wasn't financially viable to spend the time developing a PC version which more than likely wouldn't sell as well on the platform and which would be widely pirated.

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Which was an updated fixed version of UT2003 (with some extra content) which was a reskinned version of the original

It didn't stop it from being VASTLY superior to the previous iterations though. And unfortunately, despite being critically well received it clearly didn't make enough money to justify continuing to support the PC as a primary platform.

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Thing is, people don't pirate multiplayer games, Valve recognise this and its the reason Steam works. There are pirate copies of Valve games like L4D, but people just end up buying to play online

While this is true of L4D, there is still Portal and Half Life 2 to consider as fantastic single player games. That being said, their MP focus is another reason you don't see them complaining as you originally said.

Azza

PogMoThoin wrote:

Because the controls with a keyboard and mouse were terrible, it was made to be played with a controller

Controls where perfectly fine on the PC version. Myself and a few of my friends who played the PC version never had any issues with the controls.

PogMoThoin wrote:

Which was an updated fixed version of UT2003 (with some extra content) which was a reskinned version of the original

It was the game UT 2003 was mean't to be. Still a fully fledged PC game.

PogmoThoin wrote:

Thing is, people don't pirate multiplayer games, Valve recognise this and its the reason Steam works. There are pirate copies of Valve games like L4D, but people just end up buying to play online

Yeah multiplayer games are pirated less. But their is other factors for valves success and lack of piracy.

Firstly with their own games like L4D and Half Life, they are tied into Steam. They have the perfect answer to zero day piracy because they with hold the executable to run the game until release day. Even if a retail disc leaks early its useless.

Secondly they are making alot of money from selling other publishers games. They are getting a cut for each game sold on Steam. These games are normally not exclusively tied into Steam (a few are though like Dawn of War, Empire Total War) so they are still susceptable to piracy as any normal game is. This doesn't matter to Valve because they did not developer these games so regardless of sales, they do not loose money on these games, which is a risk the develepors took. These sales are pure profit for Valve.

ArphaRima

I lived in SE Asia for a few years.

The country I lived in had a very computer literate society but at the same time I never once saw a shop that sold games.
I never saw a shop that sold DVD's either.

Not legit ones.

There were streets and streets full of DVD counterfeiters and software counterfeiting shops. The police would shut them down from time to time and they would reopen hours later. But to blame this on enforcement is far too easy.

They cannot afford the products.
In a country where people earn 100-200 dollars per month they simply cannot afford to pay for legitimate windows, MS office, Splinter cell, a DVD movie or a music CD. The products are priced beyond their means.
Their choice and their governments choice is simple: If they want to live in this decade, have their people understand and benefit from modern culture and gain the computer skillbase required for development, then they must copy.

No amount of international treaties or police raids will ever change that. And I agree with it.

It is the publishers that need to change their business model.

gizmo

Another question one could ask is, with all of those street sellers selling games and DVDs, one can only assume that a lot of people own computers, DVD players and TVs. Now, if they can't afford the media for these devices, how did they afford the units themselves?

That being said, I do think the prices could be adjusted in those regions. Unfortunately, even if this was done I doubt legitimate sales would increase much given the huge rates of piracy which are prevalent over there.