2010 Dublin Marathon Improvers / Sub 3:30 Thread

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 20/6/10.
1 weeks to start of P+D 18 week Schedule

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|39|40||
pgmcpq|6|59|58| 16m is now a strain ?:( |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||


Week 3 of P&D programme down. 14 m LSR went well though I messed up the LT run. I think the heat and the long midweek runs can make some session tough.

pgmcpq

paulmcd1973 wrote: »

Having a disaster updating the table. Finally shook off a cold and some niggling injuries. Was able to do a few sessions this week, 4 sessions, 22 miles. Starting off P&D on Tuesday with a 9 miler.

Any advice on how to update the table? Even the basic tutorials aren't helping me, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055721080

Strangely the table often seems to look like plain text in the preview. I'd say update the thread, view the thread, refresh the browser. Worse case the table gets messed up - and we fix it and I don't worry to much about it.

paulmcd1973

Week Ending Sun 20/6/10.
0 weeks to start of P+D 18 week Schedule

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|39|40||
pgmcpq|6|59|58| 16m is now a strain ?:( |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|22|NA|Did 8 miles this evening instead of 9, didn't plan my route correctly and ended back at my house sooner than expected. I'm missing the bad summer weather from last year so was kinda happy to finish at 8.|
Plodder|||||


I think it was the preview that was throwing me off. Thanks for the advice, here's hoping this one works.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 20/6/10.
0 weeks to start of P+D 18 week Schedule

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|39|40||
pgmcpq|6|59|58| 16m is now a strain ?:( |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|22|NA|Did 8 miles this evening instead of 9, didn't plan my route correctly and ended back at my house sooner than expected. I'm missing the bad summer weather from last year so was kinda happy to finish at 8.|
Plodder|4|33||Did two long runs, but missed tempo due to injury concern|


Week before 18 week plan starts, and a little knee niggle appears. Wonderful! Seeing sports therapist about it, so hopefully it won't develop. Tempo run last night seemed to be ok, so fingers crossed.

There is something funny with the preview button. It's not formatting the table. So you won't know it's messed up until you press Submit.

paulmcd1973

Just wondering what people on this thread do for their cross training days. For myself, I cycle in and out of work (11km each way). I quite enjoy the spin but then again I don't exactly kill myself, takes about 35-40 minutes, although I have the occasional 4 year old as a passenger which adds a bit to the journey.

Wondering how many out there do similar or does swimming, football and other sports feature more prominently. From the more experiencing marathoners, any advice on how much cross training should be done?

menoscemo

I have to be honest, I don't do much. With 5 runs a week, there are only two rest days and one is normally spent resting a hangover.

That said I will be getting a bit of golf in over the summer and I have just bought a swiss ball mat and foam roller so hope to be getting in a good bit of core work and stretching to supplement the running.

Love football but had to give it up as I always seem to get injured playing it nowadays.

pgmcpq

paulmcd1973 wrote: »

J From the more experiencing marathoners, any advice on how much cross training should be done?

I don't meet the criteria ( experienced marathoner ) but the P&D book (p112) suggests cycling : in an easy enough gear to keep up leg turnover (followed by a short walk/run/stretch; water running, swimming : in-line skating :eek:, rowing (although they warn about doing this with poor technique), cross country skiing, elliptical machines.
There's also a chapter devoted to flexibility and core training.

Personally I do some work on a bike (usually stationary), and elliptical - since they are convenient for me - if I feel energetic .... but as menoscemo has said as the mileage goes up the cross training goes down. However the core work I do pretty consistantly.

Krusty_Clown

I always found a swim on a Monday to be fab for helping with recovery after the long runs. You don't even need to work too hard. Just make sure it's something non-load bearing.

plodder

Football sounds a bit risky to me as cross training for running. At the moment, I'm not doing anything on the rest days. Would like to give swimming a go, but used to go to gym and use rower, some light weights and long stretching routine.

RacoonQueen

First week done and dusted - my week consisted of;

Monday - Gym. Weights and swimming.
Tuesday - Lazy. Some light jogging and sprinting in the park with the dogs.
Wednesday - 9 miles at 8:50 pace. Average time upped because I forgot to stop my watch when I got home. Miles were very erratically paced though ranging from 8:16 to 9:11. Had to drag myself out for this one. Work has been really heavy lately so I'm shattered come 3pm - long before I even get to go home let alone train.
Thursday - 4 miles @ 8:30 pace.
Friday - Gym. 25 - 30 lengths of a 33m pool.
Saturday - 7.14 miles very slowly trying to just ease into pacing pace for today and tire the legs out a bit. Done at 8:59 pace. Miles 3,4 and 5 the fastest of the night though.
Sunday - Pacing the 2hr group in the Enniscorthy half marathon. So 13.1 miles @ 9:06 pace.

Light start with no real fast paced runs. Was supposed to do an 8 miler on Tuesday with 4 miles at hmp but weekday speed sessions are unlikely at the moment given how busy work is.

33.24 miles in total. Big improvement on recent weeks.

Gym tomorrow for another swim then back to running, properly hopefully on Tuesday.

paulmcd1973

Week Ending Sun 27/6/10.
17 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
pgmcpq|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|32|33|Didn't feel great on the LSR today, so finished a mile early, 11 instead of 12. I'm putting it down to a Tesco sports drink.|
Plodder|||||


Stuck mostly to the P&D plan for the week.
Monday - cycled in and out of work (22km)
Tuesday - 8 mile run
Wednesday - cycled
Thursday - 9 mile run
Friday - cycled
Saturday - 4 mile run
Sunday - 11 mile LSR around Phoenix Park.

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 27/6/10.
17 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|43|42| HM PB 1:37|
pgmcpq|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|32|33|Didn't feel great on the LSR today, so finished a mile early, 11 instead of 12. I'm putting it down to a Tesco sports drink.|
Plodder|||||


week 4 of plan done and dusted

paulmcd1973

Congrats menoscemo on the PB for the half. My current PB is 1:43.29, although I possibly went faster during DCM 09 before I blew up. McMillan has you at 3:24 for the Marathon, so you're definitely on track.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 27/6/10.
17 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|43|42| HM PB 1:37|
pgmcpq|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|32|33|Didn't feel great on the LSR today, so finished a mile early, 11 instead of 12. I'm putting it down to a Tesco sports drink.|
Plodder|5|42||2 long runs, 1 tempo, 2 easy. Slightly ahead of plan, but that won't be for long|

pgmcpq

Week Ending Sun 27/6/10.
17 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|43|42| HM PB 1:37|
pgmcpq|6|62|62| Good week |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|4|32|33|Didn't feel great on the LSR today, so finished a mile early, 11 instead of 12. I'm putting it down to a Tesco sports drink.|
Plodder|5|42||2 long runs, 1 tempo, 2 easy. Slightly ahead of plan, but that won't be for long|

pgmcpq

menoscemo wrote: »

menoscemo| HM PB 1:37

Nice one !

plodder

pgmcpq wrote: »

Week Ending Sun 27/6/10.
17 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
pgmcpq|6|62|62| Good week |

62 miles! Nice one too!

plodder

[edit] Actually. Don't worry about it. Was able to get the pages off amazon.com

pgmcpq

Week Ending Sun 4/7/10.
16 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
pgmcpq|6|55|54| 4m race 28:22 |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||


Race time was a bit disappointing. I'm hoping it was a combination of 16 miles on the Friday and/or misjudging pace/distance on the day. The result itself throws some doubt on my goals for Dublin. There's a 5k coming up which has a very cramped and crowded start that I will now try to race seriously to see if this was kust one of those days. Rest of the week was fine.

plodder

According to McMillan, 28:22 for 4 miles is in the ballpark for a sub 3:30 marathon (or only 10 seconds faster would be ). And if you ran 16 miles one or two days beforehand, I certainly wouldn't worry about it.

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 4/7/10.
16 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|35|37||
pgmcpq|6|55|54| 4m race 28:22 |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||

Tired after the half marathon, I had to use my recovery week this week.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 4/7/10.
16 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|35|37||
pgmcpq|6|55|54| 4m race 28:22 |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|4|36.5||Week 2 of P&D plan pretty much.

pgmcpq

plodder wrote: »

According to McMillan, 28:22 for 4 miles is in the ballpark for a sub 3:30 marathon (or only 10 seconds faster would be ). And if you ran 16 miles one or two days beforehand, I certainly wouldn't worry about it.

Hope your right ... but to put it in context the pace for this 4m was my last HM pace ! I'm in the ballpark but seem to be running quickly to the exit !

But if this is my pace than I've bee doing the other runs (LT etc) way too fast ...

Week2 : I found those PMP miles pretty rough !

pgmcpq

Week Ending Sun 11/7/10.
15 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
pgmcpq|6|63|62| First 20. Slow was the theme ! |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||


Good week - though barely broke 9mm pace outdoors the entire week !

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 11/7/10.
15 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|45|45|good week|
pgmcpq|6|63|62| First 20. Slow was the theme ! |
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||


16 w/ 10@PMP went wwell. It was a tough week as it included a LT run too. 18 miles this weekend followed by 20 the next. I am noticing my ace improving.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 18/7/10.
14 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|42||survived another week.|

Next week is a tough week for the P&D schedule. 16 mile LSR with 10@pmp. Just wondering does it matter much whether to run the first 10 @ pmp, or the last 10 of the 16? I think I'd prefer to run the first 10, but something tells me, the last 10 would be better training :rolleyes:

pgmcpq

plodder wrote: »

.....does it matter much whether to run the first 10 @ pmp, or the last 10 of the 16? I think I'd prefer to run the first 10, but something tells me, the last 10 would be better training :rolleyes:

P&D suggest running the PMP miles at the end - as you probably guessed .
You need some kind of warmup before hitting PMP pace anyway - well I do.
I usually give myself a mile or two grace e.g 4-10-2 I'd start the 10 PMP miles after 4 miles and do 2 cool down miles at end. That way if the PMP miles get interrupted for some reason I can make them up - but this is just me.

plodder

4-10-2 sounds do-able. My problem is I normally go out too fast for the first few miles. But having a slow 2 at the end might make it easier.

menoscemo

Plodder, I did that run as a 3 warm-up, 10 PMP then 3 warm Down. I actually found it hard to run the last 3 slower as I had got into a good Rythm. I know P&D say to do the 10 PMP at the end but that really doesn't suit me as it is approx 3 miles to Phoenix Park from my house so it suits me to do the faster miles in the Park.
I was afraid of that session myself but ti actually went much beter than expected.

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 18/7/10.
14 weeks to start of DCM

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|50|50|Good week|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|42||survived another week.|

RedB

Went AWOL there for a few weeks doing a Tri and mad busy with work / life. Missed the start of the 18wk prog but will be jumping into the 12 week programme instead. My training partner BB has kept with the 18wk plan and is raving about how good its working out for him. Good to see there's a bit of life on the thread .

menoscemo

Great to see you back Red.
I really feel the programme is brnging me on in leaps and bounds as well. I am doing a 10k next sunday so it will be interesting to see how much i have improved since the Great ireland Run.

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

I know P&D say to do the 10 PMP at the end but that really doesn't suit me as it is approx 3 miles to Phoenix Park from my house so it suits me to do the faster miles in the Park.

Do they actually advocate this? I always do a couple of miles warm-up (up to 4), PMP miles, and warm-down (I split the easy miles on either side of the pmp). For general long runs (non-PMP) I do pick up the pace towards the end of the run. On Saturday I did 18 miles with 10@pmp. I would really have struggled if I had to do 8 miles easy, followed by 10 miles @pmp.

pgmcpq

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Do they actually advocate this? I always do a couple of miles warm-up (up to 4), PMP miles, and warm-down (I split the easy miles on either side of the pmp). For general long runs (non-PMP) I do pick up the pace towards the end of the run. On Saturday I did 18 miles with 10@pmp. I would really have struggled if I had to do 8 miles easy, followed by 10 miles @pmp.

Think they do - though it is a bit ambiguous : From p25.

"On these runs, use the first few miles to warm up, then finish the run with the prescribed number of miles at marathon race pace"

I am allowing a mile or two at the end as a cool down/contingency - so I am not following the letter of the law, but basically they do suggest that the PMP miles are are the "finish" of the run. Whether it actually make a real difference ... well that's beyond my pay grade !

pgmcpq

Week Ending Sun 18/7/10.
14 weeks to start of DCM

Hey I got dropped

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|50|50|Good week|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|42||survived another week.|
pgmcpq|7|62||5k 19.56 |


Ended up doing this week and some of next week for various reasons - 7 runs a week is not going to be habit. Circumstances have thrown me off the P&D schedule a bit. This week will be down week with another HM next weekend.

RedB wrote: »

Went AWOL there for a few weeks doing a Tri and mad busy with work / life. Missed the start of the 18wk prog but will be jumping into the 12 week programme instead. My training partner BB has kept with the 18wk plan and is raving about how good its working out for him. Good to see there's a bit of life on the thread .

Welcome back - thread felt incomplete without our founder member. We're far enough into the P&D plan to start to get an impression. I'm quite enjoying the variety of runs - though the mid weeks MLRs are a bit of a shock to the system. I have a couple of HMs coming up. Curious to see if I'll find any major difference at this stage (though conditions are not the best here for distance runs currently).

plodder

Week Ending Sun 25/7/10.
13 weeks to start of DCM

Sorry I dropped you from the table last week, pgmcpq. It's tricky editing these things :pac:

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|46||big run was sunday's 10 miles pmp in 16 mile long run.|
pgmcpq|||||

I found the 16 mile (with 10 @ pmp) today hard enough. I did it as 5 mile warm-up, 10 miles pmp, plus 1 mile cool-down. Glad to have a small reduction in mileage next week.

menoscemo

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|54|54|10k PB 42:07 and first 20 mile run of the year|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|46||big run was sunday's 10 miles pmp in 16 mile long run.|
pgmcpq|||||



great week.

pgmcpq

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|5|54|54|10k PB 42:07 and first 20 mile run of the year|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|46||big run was sunday's 10 miles pmp in 16 mile long run.|
pgmcpq|5|50|54| HM 1.35.04|


Bit of a step back/HM mini-taper week. Need to get back on plan this week.
Nice PB menoscemo.

plodder

Not a great week for me last week. Blew up badly on 18 mile Sunday run. Will update log later. But a question about the Saturday run.

Was that really 7 miles with 8 x 100m strides p.m - per mile :eek: ? Even allowing for a mile warmup and cooldown, that would be 40 individual 100m strides. Any way, I couldn't summon up the energy for the strides and couldn't manage more than 8 in total.

pgmcpq

plodder wrote: »

Not a great week for me last week. Blew up badly on 18 mile Sunday run. Will update log later. But a question about the Saturday run.

Was that really 7 miles with 8 x 100m strides p.m - per mile :eek: ? Even allowing for a mile warmup and cooldown, that would be 40 individual 100m strides. Any way, I couldn't summon up the energy for the strides and couldn't manage more than 8 in total.

No, I doubt it. I'm not sure if you could get 8*100 meters + recovery done in a mile and it does not fit any pattern found elsewhere in the plan. Elsewhere p.m. is used in contrast to a.m (e.g. in the 55-70 mile plan). I only see the p.m. notation used in contrast to a.m. so this is a bit strange. Editing typo ?

These guys had the same question : Typo seemed to be the conclusion

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/training/marathon-race-training/couple-of-pfitz-1255-questions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:TrainingForum:697106477Discussion:fc2d70a4-4614-4ad8-b5aa-dc202341208ePost:ac6f8588-e1c3-43a2-b6fa-1a1af095b9a5

plodder

pgmcpq wrote: »

No, I doubt it. I'm not sure if you could get 8*100 meters + recovery done in a mile and it does not fit any pattern found elsewhere in the plan. Elsewhere p.m. is used in contrast to a.m (e.g. in the 55-70 mile plan). I only see the p.m. notation used in contrast to a.m. so this is a bit strange. Editing typo ?

These guys had the same question : Typo seemed to be the conclusion

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/training/marathon-race-training/couple-of-pfitz-1255-questions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:TrainingForum:697106477Discussion:fc2d70a4-4614-4ad8-b5aa-dc202341208ePost:ac6f8588-e1c3-43a2-b6fa-1a1af095b9a5

Thanks! That makes more sense. I'm glad I didn't try to do it. :pac:

RedB

Week Ending Sun 15/08/10.
10 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|4|39|39|Found the 15m very tough|
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||
pgmcpq|||||


I've just finished the first 2 weeks of the 12 week schedule while on my holidays so I hope I can manage it while back at work now. I hadn't been running much in July so my base level was awful but I seem to have been able to ramp up fast so far. Fingers crossed.

RedB

Week Ending Sun 22/08/10.
9 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|5|43|43|Found the 16m distance managable which is an improvement but I kept the pace low so the HR would be ok|
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||
pgmcpq|||||

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 22/08/10.
9 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|5|43|43|Found the 16m distance managable which is an improvement but I kept the pace low so the HR would be ok|
menoscemo|4.5|40|43|slight groin strain hampered my speed session|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||
pgmcpq|||||


Seeing my Physio tonight, I don't think it is anything too serious. This was my first week back in a training programme and I was quite jetlagged. Hopefully get back in the groove this week.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 22/08/10.
9 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|5|43|43|Found the 16m distance managable which is an improvement but I kept the pace low so the HR would be ok|
menoscemo|4.5|40|43|slight groin strain hampered my speed session|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|5|50||Did 20 mile lsr|
pgmcpq|||||


Missed some key sessions previous week due to illness (incl. long run) so did the first 20 mile LSR yesterday. After my 18 mile fiasco the week before that, I was taking no chances with fuel/hydration. Took three gels also, and it worked out very well. Pleased with that week. I think I'll try and do the PMP run next Sunday, that should have been done yesterday, and hopefully I'm back on track then.

RedB

Week Ending Sun 29/08/10.
8 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|5|48|48|Pretty tired after 10M LT and then 11M following day. Ok on 17M LSR|
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||
pgmcpq|||||


Cheating slightly as only squeezed in my last 5M recovery run of the week this morning. Schedule slipped a day due to work last Wed but today and tomorrow are rest days so not so bad to get it in here .

menoscemo

Week Ending Sun 29/08/10.
8 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|5|48|48|Pretty tired after 10M LT and then 11M following day. Ok on 17M LSR|
menoscemo|5|52|48|did second 20 this with instead of 16 w 12@PMP|
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|||||
pgmcpq|||||


Groin recovering but should be fit for Temps and PMP's this week.

plodder

Week Ending Sun 5/9/10.
7 weeks to start of DCM


Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Weekly Target|Comments
RedB|||||
menoscemo|||||
Effin Runner|||||
paulmcd1973|||||
Plodder|4|50|55|LSR went pretty well - overall 8:33 pace. Dropped Sat' recovery run due to aching legs after a massage on Thursday.|
pgmcpq|||||

menoscemo

Just a quick bump of the thread. We haven't updated in ages.
How has everyones training gone? What are the targets for the big day?
I am sticking with my 3:30 target even if McMillan says I can go faster. I am really hoping to just run my first strong, solid marathon before pushing to to biger and better things in the future.
I am really happy with how the training went. 4 Runs of 19.5+ miles and I completed all the PMP runs comfortably. Fingers crossed......

TakeaBowSon

Training has gone pretty well. Have been following the P&D 55mpw programme pretty closely.

Did a 21 mile LSR on Saturday and have a 20 miler and a couple of 19 milers done. All the tempo, PMP and V02 max sessions were completed to the letter so I'm hopeful (rather than confident!)

Like you menoscemo, McMillan has me down for quicker than 3.30 but I would be happy to get through this one at 3.30 and without blowing up over the last 5 miles. And then kick on next time out!

Looking forward to it now!