Passengers getting violent on Luas - where is security?

deisebabe

This morning at the red cow - fights, screaming, police called.

This was due to about 20+ romanians.
It all started when the ticket collecters asked them to get off. They got mean...so the ticket collectors and two young fellas pushed them off the luas. Next thing the romanians are throwing punches...then one grabbed a crutch and was swinging it in widely trying to hit people. The luas was packed so difficult for people to get out of the way.
The ticket collectors were calling for help but none seemed to come. What exactly are we paying for on the luas? Where are those security guys? The minute that many romanians were seen congregating something should have been done about it.
Also, when did the violence start? The romanians used to just get off when asked up until now.

At the moment my heads still ringing from yer wan beside me screaming that one of the romanians had a knife and was going to stab the young fella that pushed him off!

BigDuffman

They need to get he security company that cleaned up the DART. Those lads did wonders for the likes of Killbarrack, Raheny and Howth Junction stations.

And OP just a point to note the people to which you are refering are more than likely Roma Gypsies...not Romanians. Irish people realllllly need to recognize the difference. Thats like generalizing as Irish, every traveler that is causing trouble over-seas.

In fact a lot worse as a lot of travelers are of Irish descent, not so with Romas.

They are an absolute scourge on this and many European cities. The anti-racism crusties are only supporting their activities.

deisebabe

And OP just a point to note the people to which you are refering are more than likely Roma Gypsies

- yikes on that point i feel bad. I know nothing about romanians/roma gypsies so sorry to be generalising here.

Yeah somethings needed as you'd wonder if this is the start of a new trend- its fairly intimidating for the normal luas traveller.

Run_to_da_hills

These people (Roma) are a menace with transit companies right across Europe, it was only recently SNCF placed notices on certain trains warning the public about them. I was in Budapest last year and would trip over them on the undergrounds carrying babies and crutches hassling people for change. This problem needs to be nipped in the bud before people are put off travelling by public transport.

loyatemu

deisebabe wrote: »

The minute that many romanians were seen congregating something should have been done about it.

sounds like a nasty incident but are you seriously suggesting there should be a limit on the number of Romanians congregating in the one place?

Cookie_Monster

loyatemu wrote: »

sounds like a nasty incident but are you seriously suggesting there should be a limit on the number of Romanians Roma congregating in the one place?

anything above zero should be banned :P

paulm17781

I have a Romanian friend, he is so different from the Roma, you'd think he's a different race (which he is ). Roma aren't actually Romanian at all, they are of Indian descent, I think a few must have come from Romania and we decided that all Romanians were Roma, sad.

The thing is, while the Roma are a pain, the Red line has been problematic for some time, heavier security presence (ideally transport police) are really needed. It is difficult in rush hour though when the trams are packed.

deisebabe

sounds like a nasty incident but are you seriously suggesting there should be a limit on the number of Romanians congregating in the one place?

LOL for cookie_monsters response. But no, what I'm saying is that security should be alerted when that many are standing waiting to get on the luas.
Every morning the ticket guys have to kick these people off. Seeing that many gathering...at the luas depo might I add...there should be some response to it.

Are you saying that we should be more sensitive to 20+ of them standing there with no tickets waiting to board the luas causing either a delay or violence? This morning both occured and I'm betting everyone on that luas will feel intimidated when they see that group again, which will be this evening or tomorrow morning as they are there every day.

Lando Griffin

deisebabe wrote: »

...then one grabbed a crutch and was swinging it in widely trying to hit people.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was in Budapest last year and would trip over them on the undergrounds carrying babies and crutches hassling people for change

So if they have a crutch they are Romas?

JHMEG

BigDuffman wrote: »

They need to get he security company that cleaned up the DART.

Is that STT and is it only the DART that they deal with? Would explain why they don't intervene in the bumfights on the Luas platform at Connolly.

starviewadams

Probably wouldnt be that many security guys working early in the morning on the Luas,I'd say they mainly work at night,they wouldnt be expecting much trouble so early.

It is the same robocop-type security guys on the Dart and the Luas isnt it?I was out in Dalkey yesterday(crime hotspot!)and they were on the Dart home,it looked like the same security guys that are on the Luas.

Run_to_da_hills

Lando Griffin wrote: »

So if they have a crutch they are Romas?

If they are also holding a paper McDonalds coffee cup pretty much so, yes.

umpsfar

i was in cities in Canada and they are exactly the same crowd over there too, doing the same crap, just wait... .. i observed alot of them when on holidays in Belguim & the Dam also . The police moved them on from cafe beer garden hotspots, but the kids +10 of them where just getting old enough to be a gang to be taken seriously, and very cheeky/dangerous.

Oliver1985

BigDuffman wrote: »

They need to get he security company that cleaned up the DART. Those lads did wonders for the likes of Killbarrack, Raheny and Howth Junction stations.

And OP just a point to note the people to which you are refering are more than likely Roma Gypsies...not Romanians. Irish people realllllly need to recognize the difference. Thats like generalizing as Irish, every traveler that is causing trouble over-seas.

In fact a lot worse as a lot of travelers are of Irish descent, not so with Romas.

They are an absolute scourge on this and many European cities. The anti-racism crusties are only supporting their activities.

Thats Stt your talking about they do the dart and luas red line but dont start till 4 or 5 on the luas as far as i know!!
I wouldnt say Kilbarrck station is cleaned up its still a no go station after dark!!

Cookie_Monster

incidents like this convince me the the Garda Traffic core should be expanded into fully fledged transport policing section looking after all form of transport and infrastructure.

Having a dedicated section would invariably mean faster response times to events and allow patrols on Luas, DART and Commuter lines. Secondary benefits include showing a much more community orientated police force with people on foot on the ground which is hugely lacking in Ireland

Shayman

Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned generalised racism to start the day! I remember being Irish in London in the eighties and the IRA were blowing the place up in our name. It was not nice to be generalised as a trouble maker because of my nationality. Strangely enough what you describe seems to me not to be Romanians. How did you know they were Romanians?

deisebabe wrote: »

This morning at the red cow - fights, screaming, police called.

This was due to about 20+ romanians.
It all started when the ticket collecters asked them to get off. They got mean...so the ticket collectors and two young fellas pushed them off the luas. Next thing the romanians are throwing punches...then one grabbed a crutch and was swinging it in widely trying to hit people. The luas was packed so difficult for people to get out of the way.
The ticket collectors were calling for help but none seemed to come. What exactly are we paying for on the luas? Where are those security guys? The minute that many romanians were seen congregating something should have been done about it.
Also, when did the violence start? The romanians used to just get off when asked up until now.

At the moment my heads still ringing from yer wan beside me screaming that one of the romanians had a knife and was going to stab the young fella that pushed him off!

JHMEG

Zebra3 wrote: »

Can someone please change the thread title as the OP has even admitted those involved were not Romanians?

The OP doesn't know, as she didn't ask to see passports etc. The biggest Roma community in Europe is in Romania, so there is every possibility they were Romanian.

fartmaster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

incidents like this convince me the the Garda Traffic core should be expanded into fully fledged transport policing section looking after all form of transport and infrastructure.

Having a dedicated section would invariably mean faster response times to events and allow patrols on Luas, DART and Commuter lines. Secondary benefits include showing a much more community orientated police force with people on foot on the ground which is hugely lacking in Ireland

the scarce resources of the police are to busy being put to cough good cough use by creating traffic jams while checking people have there tax and insurance up to date.

Zebra3

JHMEG wrote: »

The OP doesn't know, as she didn't ask to see passports etc. The biggest Roma community in Europe is in Romania, so there is every possibility they were Romanian.

Exactly, there is no proof these people are Romanian.

Cookie_Monster

Zebra3 wrote: »

Exactly, there is no proof these people are Romanian.

oh who cares, they probably were and it doesn't matter. the fact is the OP could have just left it blank for people to fill in with scumbag, drug dealers, Roma, traveller, pikey or whatever other group regularly cause trouble on the Luas without it being dealt with

axer

fartmaster wrote: »

no they are defo of Asian extraction

I think you missed my point. They still could be Irish, French, German, Italian etc.

The luas are definitely going to have to get security if that keeps happening.
OP, have you made a complaint to Veolia?

fartmaster

axer wrote: »

I think you missed my point. They still could be Irish, French, German, Italian etc.

The luas are definitely going to have to get security if that keeps happening.
OP, have you made a complaint to Veolia?

thats the point as to why people confuse them as Romanians as they have lived in that country for a long time and have adopted the language manners etc so yes they can 'become' Irish French whatever it still doesnt change their original mentality of hereditary or ancestory

axer

fartmaster wrote: »

thats the point as to why people confuse them as Romanians as they have lived in that country for a long time and have adopted the language manners etc so yes they can 'become' Irish French whatever it still doesnt change their original mentality of hereditary or ancestory

They can be born Irish, French etc etc. if they are born in that country. Just like a traveller can be French, German, etc.

fartmaster

axer wrote: »

They can be born Irish, French etc etc. if they are born in that country. Just like a traveller can be French, German, etc.

If i was born of Irish parents in France id still be Irish. Just because you are born in a country doesnt mean you suddenly are of that nationality, even if you are entitled to a passport. Lets not get all Americano here

axer

fartmaster wrote: »

If i was born of Irish parents in France id still be Irish. Just because you are born in a country doesnt mean you suddenly are of that nationality, even if you are entitled to a passport. Lets not get all Americano here

Yes, lets not let facts get in the way.

paulm17781

Glad to see this is still on topic... :rolleyes:

OP, did you report this to Veolia / RPA? Best to do so as they may have security out at these stations in the morning. I once contacted the RPA about a recurring security issue and they were very helpful.

Lando Griffin

deisebabe wrote: »

Passengers getting violent on Luas - where is security?

Dosent have the same appeal as Romanians.

Try foreign nationals getting violent on Luas.

Amalgam

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Dosent have the same appeal as Romanians.

Try foreign nationals getting violent on Luas.

They're not Romanians.

Given the background and traditions of the people concerned, I think it is right to specify the people involved. It helps to focus on the situation.

Wiki links. I find their religion interesting, lifestyle habits, not so..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_(Romani_subgroup)

Origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Tarabuses

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These people (Roma) are a menace with transit companies right across Europe, it was only recently SNCF placed notices on certain trains warning the public about them. I was in Budapest last year and would trip over them on the undergrounds carrying babies and crutches hassling people for change. This problem needs to be nipped in the bud before people are put off travelling by public transport.

Your right, but when was anything nipped in the bud in this country?

Victor

Can we stick to the topic please?

AlekSmart

To get back on topic why arent these people rounded up and deported

Rounding up and deporting these people is not the issue here,desireable as it may well be.

The core issue is the refusal of the Authorities to recognize that there is a REAL security and personal safety issue on a relatively new piece of our transport infrastructure and it is worsening daily.

The RPA/Veolia response has been very slow and only recently have they admitted to the employment of Security Staff on their system.

The problem has been festering and growing now for at least 3 years with the Red Line between Bluebell and Connolly now a significantly different zone to the remainder.

Whilst Deisegirl`s experience focused on foreign gypsies,there are NO ethnic markers apparent in the general run of troublemakers.

As a regular Red Line user I would advise others to be more aware of their journey.
If possible try to avoid congregating around the double doors,as these are a vital escape route for the skangers who perpetrate this stuff.
Facing seats at the window or end seats are a better bet if you want to keep distance from them.

If you have a camera phone and feel threatened by their approach,take a few surriptitious pics,these folks thrive on anonymity and can be quick to depart any situation where a potential victim starts to act savvy.

I would be wary of any confrontation as they usually work in groups,with the damage usually inflicted by the one you DONT see.

I tend to make eye contact with them and let them be aware that I am following their progress,but as it can also annoy the hell out of them I would advise against it for a female travelling alone.

However it needs to be restated that this serious issue is NOT an ethnic one.
Some of the most violent incidents I have witnessed have been perpretrated by very definitely Irish,and native Dubs at that.

By far and away the most problematic are the gangs of feral young girls who in my experience have a very volatile propensity for wanton violence,particularly against other young girls travelling alone.

Phones,MP3`s,Watches and jewellery are all enough to draw the attention of these harpies and they represent a real public safety issue for everybody,particularly parents with young daughters trying to utilise the service.

I have drawn attention to this Kevin Myers piece on another thread today but I feel it`s equally valid for this one as it illustrates the inability of the Authorities to react to evil,when that comes from a sector we like to regard as "nice".

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-it-is-obscene-that-these-two-teenage-shethugs-are-free-2176098.html

As the area where these attacks occurred falls very close to the Luas Red Line catchment I believe somebody in Authority really does need to start smelling the coffee very soon before the contagion spreads.

The real question for US,the silent majority,is at what point do we stand-up for our "rights" to the same extent as the criminally inclined appear able to defend theirs ??

deisebabe

ok guys for arguments sake No I didn't ask them for their passports. They were therefore gypsies of "some" origin to be PC. They were not irish, italian, spanish or french.
I know that they are living in clondalkin and have worn the same clothes for at least the last year of me seeing them day in day out.

I contacted veolia, asking them what will happen now. So far no reply but the standard auto one.

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

I have drawn attention to this Kevin Myers piece on another thread today but I feel it`s equally valid for this one as it illustrates the inability of the Authorities to react to evil,when that comes from a sector we like to regard as "nice".

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-it-is-obscene-that-these-two-teenage-shethugs-are-free-2176098.html

As the area where these attacks occurred falls very close to the Luas Red Line catchment I believe somebody in Authority really does need to start smelling the coffee very soon before the contagion spreads.

I didn't really follow that case but that is a shocking reflection on the Gardai, DDP and Dept of Justice.

KD345

Despite the CCTV ad campaign and new security, there is still a disgraceful amount of scum on Luas, of all nationalities. There is a security presence in the evening which doesn't really make a difference. I travel in the morning rush hour and still encounter scumbags, drunks and junkies. At night it's just not safe despite the fancy posters displaying "you're safe with Luas."

How many people have been prosecuted for anti social behaviour on Luas since it launched?

foggy_lad

KD345 wrote: »

Despite the CCTV ad campaign and new security, there is still a disgraceful amount of scum on Luas, of all nationalities. There is a security presence in the evening which doesn't really make a difference. I travel in the morning rush hour and still encounter scumbags, drunks and junkies. At night it's just not safe despite the fancy posters displaying "you're safe with Luas."

How many people have been prosecuted for anti social behaviour on Luas since it launched?

how many asbos have been handed out to the scumbags? surely they can be barred from entering the platforms and trams? but the question is where would they be put if caught breaking the asbo?? no space in the joy or any other prisons. not enough police to police it and no money for a dedicated transport police who would not be able to do anything different to the regular garda.

I feel so sorry for anyone who has to get the red line Luas. I think I'd rather walk 10 miles to work in the morning in the snow, bare foot; than put up with the amount of crap from the scum that uses it.


As for the gypsies...my god I can't stand them. At least Irish scum have a sort of reason for being here.

starviewadams

The onus really should be on Veolia to beef up security on the red line before something
serious happens and it gets even more of a bad reputation then it already has.

Could be supplemented with uniformed local Gardai getting on for a few stops every few hours in the evenings aswell,especially on the stretch between Blackhorse and James,where I've seen the most trouble occur.

starviewadams

fartmaster wrote: »

Why not deport them? They are illegally here. All its takes is the will of the government to do something about it, its not like these people are hard to find. Its a much simiplier problem to deal with than dealing with our own scum. The biggest issue would be were to deport them to?, I guess. Another way of making an effective stance against these people, barring the use of actual violence, would be to refrain from using the Luas altogether, go back to using the mode of transportation you used before the Luas was built, hit them were it hurts in their pockets.

Aren't Romania in the E.U.?

cson

Ah the old Tallaght - Connolly Gyppo Express. Fair play to Veolia and their racist fining policy; clean up on the Green Line where they'll probably be able to afford it and completely ignore it on the Red Line where it'll only cause hassle. Even if you do encounter fare evasion; just tell them to get off. No problems. :rolleyes:

deisebabe

starviewadams wrote: »

Another way of making an effective stance against these people, barring the use of actual violence, would be to refrain from using the Luas altogether, go back to using the mode of transportation you used before the Luas was built, hit them were it hurts in their pockets.

Have to admit the problem with this is that for me I used to get the bus. The last time I got the bus however it was delayed twice when "gypsies of unknown origin"(so PC here...I'll now refer to them as gouo) got on, legged it up past the driver while one of the "gouo" distracted him by buying a ticket. Bus driver had to turn off the engine and shout up to them to get off. Added twenty minutes to my journey.

The latest idea for me is to cycle. Of course the city bikes do not go as far as clondalkin so it means buying one....and waiting for other scumbags to steal it. God I love this town!

Still no reply from veolia!!!!

axer

fartmaster wrote: »

Why not deport them? They are illegally here.

I'll think you will find that the majority of them are legally here.

Veolia will have to start having security on the trains as soon as someone makes a claim.

JHMEG

Support site for Roma: http://www.romasupport.ie/

About 90% of the Roma living in Ireland travelled from Romania.

Carlos_Ray

I did not witness this today, however, I have withnessed a similar incident and coincidentally, it also involved a group of Romany people.

Anti-ziganism is rife in Europe, and to be fair, the Romany people have suffered a lot throughout history. With this in mind I always try to defend these people from stereotypes etc, however, it is becoming increasingly difficult the more we are becoming exposed to their culture. Any culture that actively promotes aggressive begging is sure to receive bad press. Furthermore, the proven connection with such groups and crime is not helping build bridges.

My point is we need to practise acceptance, however, the romany need to address the major problems that exists within their own community also.

In relation to the incident today, I don't undertstand why two passengers felt the need to help the ticket collectors "physically" remove the passengers from the luas. Would they have acted the same had it been 20 Irish people causing trouble? Something tells me they wouldn't.

Its not up to the Irish public to enforce the laws on the Romany community. That is the Garda's responsibility and they really need to get their finger out, before things turn nasty.

starviewadams

deisebabe wrote: »

Have to admit the problem with this is that for me I used to get the bus. The last time I got the bus however it was delayed twice when "gypsies of unknown origin"(so PC here...I'll now refer to them as gouo) got on, legged it up past the driver while one of the "gouo" distracted him by buying a ticket. Bus driver had to turn off the engine and shout up to them to get off. Added twenty minutes to my journey.

The latest idea for me is to cycle. Of course the city bikes do not go as far as clondalkin so it means buying one....and waiting for other scumbags to steal it. God I love this town!

Still no reply from veolia!!!!

Clondalkin to town is a pretty dangerous cycle,used to do it years ago but had to stop because I nearly got crushed by trucks/busses about 100 times,busses arent too bad in fairness,the 69 tends to have the least scum on it.

RocketFalls

BigDuffman wrote: »

And OP just a point to note the people to which you are refering are more than likely Roma Gypsies...not Romanians. Irish people realllllly need to recognize the difference. Thats like generalizing as Irish, every traveler that is causing trouble over-seas.

In fact a lot worse as a lot of travelers are of Irish descent, not so with Romas.

They are an absolute scourge on this and many European cities. The anti-racism crusties are only supporting their activities.

Much as I detest any kind of racist attitude, this is unfortunately true. Same old vicious cycle of people not being hired because of racism>jobless becoming criminals>getting criminal reputation>not being hired because of said reputation.

I'm from Hungary, and it's quite a big problem over there. Kind of sad to see it becoming prevalent here =/.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not denigrating the Roma in any way, just looking at the facts. Current situation is just a product of centuries-long bigotry.
I'm sure it will change, just give it time.

bullpost

Dont use the Luas so just wondering on the days when they evade the ticket inspectors do they hassle/beg on the Luas or are they heading into town for the day to beg/whatever in there?

kravmaga

JHMEG wrote: »

Is that STT and is it only the DART that they deal with? Would explain why they don't intervene in the bumfights on the Luas platform at Connolly.

www.stt.ie is the name of the company Irish Rail use and they have a contract with Luas /Veoila Transport also for the Red line.

In UK the Revenue Protection Inspectors would have been backed up by the Transport Police in a situation like this.

Stonewolf

foggy_lad wrote: »

how many asbos have been handed out to the scumbags? surely they can be barred from entering the platforms and trams? but the question is where would they be put if caught breaking the asbo?? no space in the joy or any other prisons. not enough police to police it and no money for a dedicated transport police who would not be able to do anything different to the regular garda.

ASBOs are completely and utterly useless. An ASBO is a badge of honour amongst the scumbags.

stop

blueeyedboy wrote: »

www.stt.ie is the name of the company Irish Rail use and they have a contract with Luas /Veoila Transport also for the Red line.

In UK the Revenue Protection Inspectors would have been backed up by the Transport Police in a situation like this.

I'd be in favour of a Transport Police over here... or any type of police that will step up to the plate and do something about scum on public transport. Don't care if they're Roma, Romanian, Black, Yellow, Skangers or whatever, scum is scum and should be dealt with with a strong hand.

Oliver1985

stop wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a Transport Police over here... or any type of police that will step up to the plate and do something about scum on public transport. Don't care if they're Roma, Romanian, Black, Yellow, Skangers or whatever, scum is scum and should be dealt with with a strong hand.

Yeah defo a transport police!!!
In Paris you would not cross the ones in Paris!!

Victor

I've deleted a large number of posts and handed out infractions and warnings.

This is the Commuting & Transport board, kindly keep your posts to that topic.