Passengers getting violent on Luas - where is security?

the_syco

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

In relation to the incident today, I don't undertstand why two passengers felt the need to help the ticket collectors "physically" remove the passengers from the luas. Would they have acted the same had it been 20 Irish people causing trouble? Something tells me they wouldn't.

Probably so that the people on the luas wouldn't be late for work?

Hannibal Smith

deisebabe wrote: »

This morning at the red cow - fights, screaming, police called.

This was due to about 20+ romanians.
It all started when the ticket collecters asked them to get off. They got mean...so the ticket collectors and two young fellas pushed them off the luas. Next thing the romanians are throwing punches...then one grabbed a crutch and was swinging it in widely trying to hit people. The luas was packed so difficult for people to get out of the way.
The ticket collectors were calling for help but none seemed to come. What exactly are we paying for on the luas? Where are those security guys? The minute that many romanians were seen congregating something should have been done about it.
Also, when did the violence start? The romanians used to just get off when asked up until now.

At the moment my heads still ringing from yer wan beside me screaming that one of the romanians had a knife and was going to stab the young fella that pushed him off!

omg I'm usually get the Luas every morning, I'm so glad I wasn't on it this morning :eek:

The red line luas is so dodgy. In the evenings it's so packed you can't move, I've had my wallet stolen from my bag, which was on my shoulder and one memorable afternoon there were four blokes shooting up on the floor in one of the middle carriages, the luas was stopped, but the driver couldn't do much so it carried on to the red cow, where he had back up by then they were gone. I'll never forget the look on one passenger's face who saw it all (luckily I was on the first carriage) he was white as a ghost as he told us what was going on.

It's such a great service, is usually so reliable but I don't know what they can do security wise. I've seen the Romas get on before and the drivers refuse to move until they get off again. Some times I feel sorry for them, maybe they have a ticket and it's guilty by association, but when stuff like you're saying happens you can't blame the drivers for acting pre-emptively.

Hannibal Smith

BigDuffman wrote: »

And OP just a point to note the people to which you are refering are more than likely Roma Gypsies...not Romanians. Irish people realllllly need to recognize the difference. Thats like generalizing as Irish, every traveler that is causing trouble over-seas.

oops I'll edit me post

kravmaga

deisebabe wrote: »

This morning at the red cow - fights, screaming, police called.

This was due to about 20+ romanians.
It all started when the ticket collecters asked them to get off. They got mean...so the ticket collectors and two young fellas pushed them off the luas. Next thing the romanians are throwing punches...then one grabbed a crutch and was swinging it in widely trying to hit people. The luas was packed so difficult for people to get out of the way.
The ticket collectors were calling for help but none seemed to come. What exactly are we paying for on the luas? Where are those security guys? The minute that many romanians were seen congregating something should have been done about it.
Also, when did the violence start? The romanians used to just get off when asked up until now.

At the moment my heads still ringing from yer wan beside me screaming that one of the romanians had a knife and was going to stab the young fella that pushed him off!

Did you call 999/112 and ask for urgent Police presence?

Did you help out or just stand there when the ticket inspectors shouted for HELP?

Dont come on here moaning about an incident if you did not do you civic duty as a citizen.

Have you reported this to the Operations Manager in Veoila Transport at their headquarters

You sound like a right nob jockey to me.

They are known as Roma gypsies not Romanians and are in every capital city in Europe.

Cannot understand why Police did not respond when the station is not far from the Luas stop

Hannibal Smith

blueeyedboy wrote: »

Did you call 999/112 and ask for urgent Police presence?

Did you help out or just stand there when the ticket inspectors shouted for HELP?

Dont come on here moaning about an incident if you did not do you civic duty as a citizen.

Have you reported this to the Operations Manager in Veoila Transport at their headquarters

You sound like a right nob jockey to me.

They are known as Roma gypsies not Romanians and are in every capital city in Europe.

Cannot understand why Police did not respond when the station is not far from the Luas stop

The OP already said she contaced Veoila about it

It's easy to sit back and judge when you're not the one who was in the situation. The OP has also said other passengers got involved and another poster criticised them for doing their 'civic duty'.

And name calling, seriously?

JHMEG

stop wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a Transport Police over here...

Do the Gardaí only like the handy jobs I wonder? We have the Traffic Corps and we even have River fecking police (how many scumbags have boats?)

JHMEG

blueeyedboy wrote: »

You sound like a right nob jockey to me.

Hmmm, am I missing something or does that just not carry the same weight of insult when levelled at a girl? :pac:

deisebabe

blueeyedboy wrote: »

Did you call 999/112 and ask for urgent Police presence?

Did you help out or just stand there when the ticket inspectors shouted for HELP?

Dont come on here moaning about an incident if you did not do you civic duty as a citizen.

Have you reported this to the Operations Manager in Veoila Transport at their headquarters

You sound like a right nob jockey to me.

They are known as Roma gypsies not Romanians and are in every capital city in Europe.

Cannot understand why Police did not respond when the station is not far from the Luas stop

umm i'm actually stumped here. Am I supposed to tackle 20 roma gypsies on my way to work? I didn't realise I was wonder woman.
For me I was squashed between the other passengers and couldn't even get to my phone in my bag(dont think even pickpockets could have worked in such a confined space).

Do you even know what a nj is? and maybe spelling it correctly and applying to correct gender would then give it some impact.....

Davidth88

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

incidents like this convince me the the Garda Traffic core should be expanded into fully fledged transport policing section looking after all form of transport and infrastructure.

Having a dedicated section would invariably mean faster response times to events and allow patrols on Luas, DART and Commuter lines. Secondary benefits include showing a much more community orientated police force with people on foot on the ground which is hugely lacking in Ireland

You know thats a very good idea !

bmaxi

Davidth88 wrote: »

You know thats a very good idea !

Why? I don't think the troublemakers could run away fast enough to register on a speed camera.

AlekSmart

Originally Posted by Cookie_Monster
Incidents like this convince me the the Garda Traffic core should be expanded into fully fledged transport policing section looking after all form of transport and infrastructure.

With a bit of outside-the-box thinking here we as a society might already have the specific resources needed to provide a neucleus of Transport Police.

I refer to the many Staff from the Public Transport sector who are currently members of the Garda Reserve or are awaiting training for it.

Whether from the CIE companies,Veoilia,Aircoach or any of the private operators these Reservists could provide a great deal of the working knowledge which would make such Public Transport Policing operations far more efficient,and thus easier on the public purse.

Knowledge is power and the ability to fully utilize that knowledge provides a huge advantage to any Policing operation.

Of course it would take a degree of co-operation,co-ordination and integration between the Agencies and the Operators and that type of stuff traditionally causes HUUGE difficulties for the Irish psyche.:)

BigDuffman

JHMEG wrote: »

The OP doesn't know, as she didn't ask to see passports etc. The biggest Roma community in Europe is in Romania, so there is every possibility they were Romanian.

I cannot believe that this topic is getting bogged down in defining a ethnic group! I get your point in saying they may have been Romas born in Romania. Equally if a Roma was born in Australia I wouldn't look at that individual who has the skin tone, features, cultural dress sense and behaviour of what we generaly stereotype as being associated with the Roma people and then think "oh they must be Australian" regardless of where they have been born we can make logical assumptions....they are Roma of *insert relevant nationality here* descent. This overly PC bullsh*t is really getting in the way of having a normal conversation.

Now back on topic. Regarding commuting issues, all instances should be reported. The relevant autorities cannot implement strategies or safe guards unless they have quantifiable data (in the form of official registered complaints from the public) hearsay is not a representable reason for taking action.

JHMEG

BigDuffman wrote: »

I cannot believe that this topic is getting bogged down in defining a ethnic group!

Keep your hair on. OP said they were Romanians, turns out they're Roma. Someone said how do you know they're Romanian. I merely pointed out statistically there's a good chance as 90% of Roma in Ireland came from Romania.

Personally I don't give a fúck where they're from. Several different groups, be they ethnic or otherwise, have a name for causing trouble.

foggy_lad

I spent much of the afternoon in and around the city centre luas stops and even made several fruitless calls to veolia customer care about beggars all irish junkies at several stops.

if you heard announcements at jervis at around 5pm that was due to a call from me but nothing else was done. can't veolia bar these people from luas platforms?

several people gave the beggars money at abbey street despite knowing the only way to stop these parasites is to cut off their income from begging. do-gooders should have to pay fines along with the scumbags!

trellheim

Begging at Jervis and especially Abbey is endemic. In particular standing beside the machines asking for sparechange; this is ESPECIALLY intimidating to the fairer sex. RPA should have permanent security at these locations. The amount of superfluous checkers on the Green in comparison to the Red line is shocking. I dont' travel much beyond Fatima usually but perhaps Red Cow as well.


**** Everyone sit down and watch Emperor of the North ! ******

D'Peoples Voice

Lando Griffin wrote: »

So if they have a crutch they are Romas?

ah FFS will people like you just give it a rest,
everytime I hear how that scum (Roma) are begging in Temple Bar and pickpocketing people, people like you come out with the same **** so how do you know they are Roma?
Their skin colour, their facial features, their clothes, the language,
man if you can't recognise someone from the Roma community from a distance, either you're incredibly unobservant or just ignorant.

Ask yourself how many blond haired, or blue eyed Roma you have met for example, you see they intermarry amongst their own community, so their features are very consistent from one to another.
Personally the roughness of their skin is a very good indicator - think of how many other races of people in this country have CONSISTENLY such poor hygiene in terms of skin/teeth and general overall dress/appearance.
They are scum, and unfortunately Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary are seriously inflicted with this disease.

gurramok

To clear up, people from Romania & Bulgaria are allowed to be only 3 months without a work permit in this country.
Now, as a commuter, I have seen a Roma woman begging at traffic lights on Pearse st for the last 2 years and other street beggars longer here than they should be.

This problem as described by the OP is a security and immigration issue. Its a problem for the Luas security to clamp down on any scum Irish or foreign on their trams but they cannot do it alone, its needs the Gardai and political will to stamp it out. We all suffer from harassment from junkies and beggars Irish & foreign, shutting them out from the Luas will mean moving the problem elsewhere. It won't go away until there is a real clampdown.

It ain't confined to Dublin either. I recently experienced the same harassment in Paris and as other posters pointed out, it happens in other European cities. Perhaps, it needs action from an EU level. Either that or have a couple of security men at each Luas stop and that will mean those costs will be passed onto the commuter just to have a safe journey.(ridiculous i hear!)

Begging, especially aggressive begging should be made illegal, full stop.

foggy_lad

it is illegal!

JHMEG

foggy_lad wrote: »

the only action that will be effective is to stop giving these parasitic scumbags anything!

Some people are probably afraid they'll get a slap or get mugged if they don't give anything tho...

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

Some people are probably afraid they'll get a slap or get mugged if they don't give anything tho...

Perhaps they are but the only reason this scum have the nerve to do it is because they are expected to give money. It's also less likely they'll get hit at a busy station than a dark street. People giving money to beggars annoys me more than the beggars themselves.

AlekSmart

To clear up, people from Romania & Bulgaria are allowed to be only 3 months without a work permit in this country.
Now, as a commuter, I have seen a Roma woman begging at traffic lights on Pearse st for the last 2 years and other street beggars longer here than they should be.

Thanks for the clarification Gurramok.

It would seem however that such regulations are in the truest Irish sense,"only on paper".
Therefore without some considerable effort being directed into actually enforcing any given Law I would suggest we should simply announce the it`s being rescinded.

Ireland,particularly in the wake of our EU membership has a Statute Book of incredible breath and scale covering as many infarctions as you could think of.

It`s all largely window dressing to give an impression,a tactic which has in fact led to the pauperization of our State.

Thats all a bit OTT for this thread so I`ll shut the F$%k up about it.

The essential thing to remember when viewing the hordes of increasingly brave and upfront beggars and abusers of various hue`s on our streets is that although they appear to have nothing on the surface,the one thing they WILL possess is some form of Official Number.

This may well be a PPS number,a HSE or Local Authority identifier but it will most likely be the source of a Social payment each week.

In many cases these folks will be on or in some form of Publicly funded rehabilitation/support scheme to afford them further scope to re-enter normal society.

The effectiveness or otherwise of these schemes is open to arguement but one can be assured that NONE of the people this thread is concerned with are without means of some sort.

For example I was recently hassled for "spare-change" by a wrecked looking substance-abusing couple on Eden Quay.
Nothing too serious as they were barely able to stand,but their business was interrupted by the gent having to take a mobile-phone call.
When the call rung through,his partner broke off her pitch to me in order to check if twas HER mobile which was ringing.

priorities eh ???

Just as with our national Asylum scheme,where the devious criminally minded selfish actions of a few high-profile fakers has absorbed scarce resources which SHOULD have been available to genuine asylum seekers,we see here how the genuine down-on-their-luck individual is the real victim of these "professional" scroungers.

Security move these people on but they are only there from 7pm and there is effectively NOBODY monitoring the cameras on the luas as i found out yesterday! it would seem they only look at the cameras where there is a call from a driver or member of the public! veoila are leaving security solely in the hands of the guards and cctv in the hands of the city council!

Again the above quote very succinctly sums the entire issue up to a T.

Even dealing with one form of Public Transport here,we have confusion as to who is responsible for what with the only result being a free run for the Savages.

If one takes a look along O Connell Street alone we can see totally seperate CCTV units,Gardai,DCC and Private.
It appears that the only co-ordinated and monitored system is the City Centre Business Association which at least allows it`s members to share and warn each other of the whereabouts of the gangs of Dippers.

There was at one point a large bank of Garda CCTV monitors in the O Connell St sub-station but even this appears to have fallen off the wall.

It really is a tipping point at present and focuses on exactly what the "Ordinary" citizen is prepared to endure before they snap ???

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's also less likely they'll get hit at a busy station than a dark street.

There's a general breakdown of enforcement. I know someone who got a slap at a busy bus-stop in the city centre cos he wouldn't hand over his bus fare. Passers-by weren't interested.

(I'm expecting some seagull moderating any second now!)

Morlar

The herald has picked up this story (& without the uber pc editing too). It seems to me that their goal is to intimidate staff into allowing them to travel free. Fair play to the woman who stood up to them. If every time they boarded the luas they got that they would soon learn it's not going to work.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/roma-riot-on-luas-in-fare-dodge-claim-2178481.html

Roma riot on Luas in fare dodge claim


By Geraldine Gittens

Thursday May 13 2010

A GROUP of Roma fare-dodgers were arrested after terrifying commuters on a Red Line Luas.

Passengers were forced to dive for cover after a violent brawl broke out at the Red Cow stop with a group who refused to pay their fares yesterday morning.

A group of up to ten Roma boarded the Luas along with morning commuters at 8.15am yesterday without paying their fares, and when they were asked to leave they became aggressive and abusive.

Four of the men were arrested and one was charged in relation to the incident.

A spokesperson for Veolia, the company which operates the Luas, told the Herald that the men spiralled out of control when Luas staff checked for their tickets after they boarded the tram at the Red Cow stop.

"They were found to be boarding without tickets by staff and were asked to leave and purchase tickets," she said.

One terrified witness told the Herald: "The ticket warden, who was female, asked them to leave the tram since they had no ticket. But they started arguing and would not move to get off for her, even though she asked them firmly and repeatedly."

"At least two of them then became violent and were trying to get to Irish guys and were willing to hit anyone in the way with wild swings. One of them grabbed a crutch and started swinging it wildly," she said.

Terrified passengers on the Luas started screaming as the men became aggressive, and our witness says she feared the disturbance would escalate further.

She added: "I've emailed the Luas people to ask how this is being handled and if the police will be involved as these people are there every day."

Meanwhile a garda spokesperson said the four men were brought to Clondalkin Garda Station where one man in his 30s was charged in relation to the incident. All four have since been released.

The Veolia spokesperson said the Luas service was disrupted for four minutes because of the disturbance.

"There was a compliment made by a tram passenger in relation to the professional approach of Veolia Transport staff in dealing with this group this morning and a report has been made to Luas customer care to inform them of this incident at the Red Cow stop this morning," she added.

hnews@herald.ie

AlekSmart

"There was a compliment made by a tram passenger in relation to the professional approach of Veolia Transport staff in dealing with this group this morning and a report has been made to Luas customer care to inform them of this incident at the Red Cow stop this morning," she added.

The RPA/Veolia are obviously reading the Mick O Leary methodology booklet very thoroughly....there`s NO negativity that can`t be spun round to make it Positive.

Perhaps the first step to eradicating this violent form of behaviour is to shut-down the PR operation and divert it`s resources into Security on the system ??

paulm17781

Morlar wrote: »

The herald has picked up this story (& without the uber pc editing too).

More likely they read it here and decided to make up a story.

Nevyn

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is illegal!

Begging isn't illegal, the law we had was struck out there is a bill in process to bring in new laws.

paulm17781

paulm17781 wrote: »

More likely they read it here and decided to make up a story.

Couldn't care less where they got the information. This stuff needs to be reported more. I always hate when there's a piece on TV about ATM scams or pick-pocketing etc and they refer to them as 'Foreign'/'Romanian' Nationals. People need to know who and what to look out for.

foggy_lad

one can be assured that NONE of the people this thread is concerned with are without means of some sort.

they all have social welfare payments and i would never begrudge anyone not even drug addicts their payments but the nature of their addiction is they will always need more so go out begging because it is so lucrative!

the problem is that the company responsible for operating the luas and for providing a safe environment for pasengers is completley failing to protect passengers from these scumbags either on the trams or on platforms!

there is no proper monitoring of luas cctv by luas to spot these scumbags and divert operatives to them with police if necessary, after catching them so often they can then be barred from entering onto veoila property and arrested and taken off the streets if they do! the last thing these scumbags want is to be held for most of the day in a cell!

JHMEG

foggy_lad wrote: »

they all have social welfare payments and i would never begrudge anyone not even drug addicts their payments

I can never understand the sense of entitlement to welfare payments that weren't earned by the recipient. If you didn't pay for it, it's not your's.

foggy_lad

JHMEG wrote: »

I can never understand the sense of entitlement to welfare payments that weren't earned by the recipient. If you didn't pay for it, it's not your's.

is this the same for the mentally ill and mentally and physically disabled?

JHMEG

foggy_lad wrote: »

is this the same for the mentally ill and mentally and physically disabled?

As it is for the able-bodied?

Aidan1

the problem is that the company responsible for operating the luas and for providing a safe environment for pasengers is completley failing to protect passengers from these scumbags either on the trams or on platforms!

Neither Veolia or STT are the State - they cannot arrest or detain anyone, nor can they compel anyone from hanging around the stops (which are in public places). That's a matter for the Gardai and the courts. And, of course, having enough prison places to house habitual offenders.

bmaxi

Morlar wrote: »

Four of the men were arrested and one was charged in relation to the incident.



"

Best of luck to whoever gets the job of finding this fcuker when he's due in court.
I do support the point made about labelling them Romanian. They may come from Romania but believe me, the Romanians are delighted to see the back of them.
I saw them involved in an incident in the Lidl store in Walkinstown. When the security guard challenged them they started to throw bottles and cans and all sorts of stuff at anybody and everybody.The Gardaí were very quickly on the scene and dealt with them none too gently. Pure scum.

foggy_lad

and why dont the guards do anything? they are not called by veolia! in all the instances i reported yesterday there was no police called by veolia even though people were openly harrassing people at the ticket machines asking them for change.

"They were found to be boarding without tickets by staff and were asked to leave and purchase tickets," she said.

and if normal working people going to or from work were caught without a ticket they will be/are fined yet the scum get away free!

Victor

Can we stick to transport issues or the thread is getting locked?

The level of abuse needs to be reduced also.

coldwood92

write a letter of complait

Cookie_Monster

Just start contacting the gaurds directly, rather than Vieoelaolllaoriellla (or however you spell it)

foggy_lad

Was passing by jervis stop a while ago and there were two beggars at the ticket machines and one at abbey street openly begging. no wonder people feel threatened when the company allows this to go on. I then got another tram and there were 3children proudly drinking from their cider cans and the driver did nothing as far as i could see even after it was brought to his attention. the company is not doing enough to protect its customers imo.

BrianD

foggy_lad wrote: »

Was passing by jervis stop a while ago and there were two beggars at the ticket machines and one at abbey street openly begging. no wonder people feel threatened when the company allows this to go on. I then got another tram and there were 3children proudly drinking from their cider cans and the driver did nothing as far as i could see even after it was brought to his attention. the company is not doing enough to protect its customers imo.

... but if it was three kids in latest gear drinking cans of premium lager on the way into town on the green line it would be a different matter of course.

Judgement Day

BrianD wrote: »

... but if it was three kids in latest gear drinking cans of premium lager on the way into town on the green line it would be a different matter of course.

I don't understand the above comment or, indeed, many other comments on this thread. I'm sure most people don't care whether a troublemaker is a Roma, a northsider or from Foxrock - they would like to purchase their ticket and travel in a safe environment. Zero tolerance of troublemakers of all colours and creeds is the only way to go, otherwise the lunatics will take over the asylum completely. :mad:

steamengine

Get rid of all the street cash machines - we know the score with the LUAS machines - car parking meters and ATM's - same problem. Just came out of town, passed by one of the 'Corpo bicycle bays' - no cash there = no problem. Can't say the same about the car parking meters near the Mater Hospital.

foggy_lad

steamengine wrote: »

Get rid of all the street cash machines - we know the score with the LUAS machines - car parking meters and ATM's - same problem. Just came out of town, passed by one of the 'Corpo bicycle bays' - no cash there = no problem. Can't say the same about the car parking meters near the Mater Hospital.

i agree that it is the cash machines that are like magnets for beggars addicts etc as people are more likely to give when they have change in their hand and the machines must also be a source of "dropped" or lost money for the beggars as many people will drop/lose money at the manchines while they are searching their pockets for change, but people still have to be able to buy a ticket for the luas so is removing the machines the answer?

i am wondering if announcments from the control centre when the beggars are approaching people would work but that depends on cctv being monitored

jervis and abbey street stops had the same beggars at the machines this afternoon that were there yesterday, there must be a good living to be made from it!

steamengine

foggy_lad wrote: »

i agree that it is the cash machines that are like magnets for beggars addicts etc as people are more likely to give when they have change in their hand and the machines must also be a source of "dropped" or lost money for the beggars as many people will drop/lose money at the manchines while they are searching their pockets for change, but people still have to be able to buy a ticket for the luas so is removing the machines the answer?

i am wondering if announcments from the control centre when the beggars are approaching people would work but that depends on cctv being monitored

jervis and abbey street stops had the same beggars at the machines this afternoon that were there yesterday, there must be a good living to be made from it!

On the LUAS website they have a list of shops adjacent to the various stops which sell tickets. If the on street machines were 'card' only then I would think that would improve the situation immensely. Similarly if parking disc systems like they have (or had) in Cork City were introduced, that would help also !!! As a Dub and retired I only go into the city centre when I have to, the pleasure has gone out of it. P--sed off being stopped and asked for 'spare change'. They get nothing from me !!!

foggy_lad

steamengine wrote: »

On the LUAS website they have a list of shops adjacent to the various stops which sell tickets. If the on street machines were 'card' only then I would think that would improve the situation immensely. Similarly if parking disc systems like they have (or had) in Cork City were introduced, that would help also !!! As a Dub and retired I only go into the city centre when I have to, the pleasure has gone out of it. P--sed off being stopped and asked for 'spare change'. They get nothing from me !!!

good suggestions but i cant help but think the shops in the city centre would not want the extra hassle and work from thousands of extra ticket sales each day most of which would be single tickets, and veoila would not want to pay them the commission from so many sales as they would most likely make far less than for the same sales from machines, and shops would lose regular business as people would see tham as being too busy for going in to get a paper cigarettes lunch etc

also all stops in dublin city would have to be cashless machines as the beggars would just move on to the next stop if say abbey street was made cashless.

AlekSmart

There are snags to anything like this - seems to me that 'Violyoly' or whatever they call themselves are 'shooting fish in a barrel' as regards the commuter who has to get to work. It was a slack system to start off with whereby one could board their trams with no ticket - 'all to save money'.

In fairness to Veolia (6 letters) their general Revenue Control system has been quite comprehensive.
Certainly when compared to Dublin Bus`s alarming lack of any form of Revenue or Visible control Inspectorate they are Pro-Active in extremis.

In may ways the Dublin Bus case study should be ringing alarm bells at the top of Veolia`s bell tower as it rather pointedly shows how a comprehensive Public Transport System can lose huge chunks of ridership due to it not possessing any sign of self-respect.

Large chunks of Dublin`s Bus network,have over the years been allowed to develop reputations as no-go zones for the "Ordinary" passenger.

Whether it was Tallaght,Clondalkin,Ballyfermot,Coolock,Finglas,Ballybrack or wherever the Bus Service,after dark became a thing NOT to be recommended to a Daughter,Son,Wife,Sister,Brother heading out for a night in Town or the likes.

This is still the case and it`s a problem which should and could be addressed IF we had any real enthusiasm for the Greater Good ethos which allows other societies to function.

Veolia can can ignore the fact that the problem is perceived as worsening.
This will lead to Luas going the same way in public regard terms as Dublin Bus and really needs to be avoided by a relatively new and untainted system.

However,it`s not just Veolia`s call...they are a Transport Operator with no input into Public Order maintenance.
Their remit extends as far as providing a safe working environment for their staff.
I believe its the RPA which carries the main burden of responsibility for ensuring the Passengers have a similarly safe environment and currently the RPA are not in the game at all.

With the major extensions of both lines now in the offing,the time for action is NOW,not when the savages have already extended their remit to CityWest and Loughlinstown.

foggy_lad

i saw some RPA staff at heuston and Jervis stops earlier today carrying clipboards, they appeared to be counting people getting on and off at these stops. (the two beggars at jervis were on the opposite platform from the RPA representetive so were most likely not noticed by him) they should instead be asking customers at jervis and abbey street during the week how they feel about the beggars around the ticket machines.

steamengine

AlekSmart wrote: »

In fairness to Veolia (6 letters) their general Revenue Control system has been quite comprehensive.
Certainly when compared to Dublin Bus`s alarming lack of any form of Revenue or Visible control Inspectorate they are Pro-Active in extremis.

In may ways the Dublin Bus case study should be ringing alarm bells at the top of Veolia`s bell tower as it rather pointedly shows how a comprehensive Public Transport System can lose huge chunks of ridership due to it not possessing any sign of self-respect.

Large chunks of Dublin`s Bus network,have over the years been allowed to develop reputations as no-go zones for the "Ordinary" passenger.

Whether it was Tallaght,Clondalkin,Ballyfermot,Coolock,Finglas,Ballybrack or wherever the Bus Service,after dark became a thing NOT to be recommended to a Daughter,Son,Wife,Sister,Brother heading out for a night in Town or the likes.

This is still the case and it`s a problem which should and could be addressed IF we had any real enthusiasm for the Greater Good ethos which allows other societies to function.

Veolia can can ignore the fact that the problem is perceived as worsening.
This will lead to Luas going the same way in public regard terms as Dublin Bus and really needs to be avoided by a relatively new and untainted system.

However,it`s not just Veolia`s call...they are a Transport Operator with no input into Public Order maintenance.
Their remit extends as far as providing a safe working environment for their staff.
I believe its the RPA which carries the main burden of responsibility for ensuring the Passengers have a similarly safe environment and currently the RPA are not in the game at all.

With the major extensions of both lines now in the offing,the time for action is NOW,not when the savages have already extended their remit to CityWest and Loughlinstown.

As regards the OP's predicament last week, if that had been Dublin Bus the people in question would have had to purchase their tickets ON boarding the bus. Veoila would be 'proactive' if they had such a system in place, and what happened in consequence was 'reactive'. Maybe 'reactive in extremis' would a more correct description.

Whatever about the RPA argument, one would think by way of logic that Veoila would have a 'duty of care' towards those who 'pay' for their continued prosperity and if 'not in law', then from a 'moral perspective'.

I agree the time for action is 'NOW' if not overdue at this stage. That is why I suggested the 'cashless machine' route and customers have the choice of purchasing tickets in the retail outlets, as per their website, in the interim.

AlekSmart

I agree the time for action is 'NOW' if not overdue at this stage. That is why I suggested the 'cashless machine' route and customers have the choice of purchasing tickets in the retail outlets, as per their website, in the interim.

The gas part of it all is that we already HAVE the answer at our disposal IF the RPA/Dept of Transport can remove the blinkers.

The current Luas SmartCard should be immediately revamped and REDUCED in price enough to make it a "no-brainer" to stick with cash.

Any associated shortfall should be made up by Central Government as the price to be paid for a secure and safe Public Transport system.

No Cash=No Beggars.:eek:

steamengine

foggy_lad wrote: »

good suggestions but i cant help but think the shops in the city centre would not want the extra hassle and work from thousands of extra ticket sales each day most of which would be single tickets, and veoila would not want to pay them the commission from so many sales as they would most likely make far less than for the same sales from machines, and shops would lose regular business as people would see tham as being too busy for going in to get a paper cigarettes lunch etc

also all stops in dublin city would have to be cashless machines as the beggars would just move on to the next stop if say abbey street was made cashless.

There are snags to anything like this - it seems to me that Veoila are 'shooting fish in a barrel' when it comes to the commuter who has to get to and from work, and should be doing more to tackle the problem of harassment at cash machines. IMO it is also a slack system which allows people to board their trams, without it being a condition of boarding that they have purchased a ticket.

Post revised - spelling Veoila wasn't that difficult after all !!