Izevbekhai and pleading the belly in Irish Law

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

believe me I would love to. How is Wayne doing? Are you all friends again? Is it true he is broke?

Seen as i married a Garda i am friends with no one

mike kelly

caseyann wrote: »

Seen as i married a Garda i am friends with no one

I thought you all got on well with Guards? Willie Keane had great things to say about you a while back.

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

I thought you all got on well with Guards? Willie Keane had great things to say about you a while back.

About me in general,isnt that nice of him

mike kelly

there's no nigerians living on the Hill I'll bet

The Corinthian

caseyann wrote: »

Just because you have Irish citizenship doesn't make you Irish.If i go to china and get a passport and become Chinese citizen doesnt mean i am Chinese.And most certainly would not be considered for a role in government or any other state job.

Irish by decent by centuries doesnt count.

Then really you need to decide what really constitutes Irish. Someone who is Irish by blood, but has never set foot in Ireland is hardly Irish, are they? Or someone who is born in Ireland but has no other tie to or grow up in Ireland is hardly Irish either?

Yet this is what you've claimed makes you Irish. It doesn't.

In the same way, you could go to China, live there for ten, twenty years, speak Chinese, integrate into Chinese society and gain citizenship. Would you be Chinese? I suspect you've more right to call yourself Chinese in that scenario than someone who gains a nationality through no more effort than an accident of birth.

caseyann

The Corinthian wrote: »

Then really you need to decide what really constitutes Irish. Someone who is Irish by blood, but has never set foot in Ireland is hardly Irish, are they? Or someone who is born in Ireland but has no other tie to or grow up in Ireland is hardly Irish either?

Yet this is what you've claimed makes you Irish. It doesn't.

In the same way, you could go to China, live there for ten, twenty years, speak Chinese, integrate into Chinese society and gain citizenship. Would you be Chinese? I suspect you've more right to call yourself Chinese in that scenario than someone who gains a nationality through no more effort than an accident of birth.

Accident of birth? Right of birth and of generations of paying tax fighting for this country building it to what it is today.

No i still wouldnt be Chinese i would be a guest.And born there i would be a Irish decedent born in china.

The Corinthian

caseyann wrote: »

Accident of birth? Right of birth and of generations of paying tax fighting for this country building it to what it is today.

In neither case you gave would you or your recent ancestors have been "paying tax fighting for this country building it to what it is today". Some may have never set foot in Ireland. You would have to look back one, two, whatever number of generations before you found anyone who had set foot in Ireland.

And in addition, Ireland would be a foreign country - just because you're born somewhere or to (grand-)parents from there, does not mean you grew up there. You mightn't even speak English, let alone Irish - how Irish would you be?

So yes, all you are suggesting is rewarding an accident of birth.

No i still wouldnt be Chinese i would be a guest.And born there i would be a Irish decedent born in china.

Maybe for you, but some people do identify with their country of adoption.

Ultimately China would be your home and your kids would know no other home - so even if you rejected calling it your nation, your kids won't - unless you want to condemn them to being foreigners everywhere they go, because (just as with many American-Irish) they don't quite fit in as Irish in Ireland.

caseyann

The Corinthian wrote: »

In neither case you gave would you or your recent ancestors have been "paying tax fighting for this country building it to what it is today". Some may have never set foot in Ireland. You would have to look back one, two, whatever number of generations before you found anyone who had set foot in Ireland.

And in addition, Ireland would be a foreign country - just because you're born somewhere or to (grand-)parents from there, does not mean you grew up there. You mightn't even speak English, let alone Irish - how Irish would you be?

So yes, all you are suggesting is rewarding an accident of birth.

Maybe for you, but some people do identify with their country of adoption.

Ultimately China would be your home and your kids would know no other home - so even if you rejected calling it your nation, your kids won't - unless you want to condemn them to being foreigners everywhere they go, because (just as with many American-Irish) they don't quite fit in as Irish in Ireland.

I said centuries of not stepping foot in Ireland doesnt make you Irish and didnt count.

Memnoch

I came to Ireland in my teens when my parents came to work here. I went to school and did the leaving cert here. I then went to University and studied here, and after graduation, I've worked here.

All my friends are Irish and at this stage I've lived in Ireland more than almost any other country.

If someone asks me where I'm from, or where's home, I say Dublin. Because this is the place I am most familiar and comfortable with, and know and love. I support the Irish football team.

Pretty soon I will be making my naturalisation application and hope to gain Irish Citizenship in the next year or so.

Technically, I'm not yet Irish. Yet I feel more in tune with the culture and sentiment here than anywhere else in the world. I gather this is because I spent key formative years here and was greatly influenced by the local flavour.

It makes me sad when I hear someone say that they would still not consider me to be Irish because of either my place of birth/parentage, or the colour of my skin.

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

#


I said second generation.;) If they were born in America then allowed to run if not and immigrants must be the child who is born and schooled and is true citizen.

Ah right. Personally, I think they should be let run. If they get elected, great, if not, well they didn't get enough votes. What's the harm?

Helps for integration and all that too.

Mad though, you where on about Australia earlier. Their PM wouldn't be allowed to be PM by your rules!

caseyann

Memnoch wrote: »

I came to Ireland in my teens when my parents came to work here. I went to school and did the leaving cert here. I then went to University and studied here, and after graduation, I've worked here.

All my friends are Irish and at this stage I've lived in Ireland more than almost any other country.

If someone asks me where I'm from, or where's home, I say Dublin. Because this is the place I am most familiar and comfortable with, and know and love. I support the Irish football team.

Pretty soon I will be making my naturalisation application and hope to gain Irish Citizenship in the next year or so.

Technically, I'm not yet Irish. Yet I feel more in tune with the culture and sentiment here than anywhere else in the world. I gather this is because I spent key formative years here and was greatly influenced by the local flavour.

It makes me sad when I hear someone say that they would still not consider me to be Irish because of either my place of birth/parentage, or the colour of my skin.

I said schooled here you are Irish nah you show your love for the country so you are Irish.
Good luck with that wish you the best with your application.

The Corinthian

caseyann wrote: »

I said centuries of not stepping foot in Ireland doesnt make you Irish and didnt count.

So two generations, totalling less than a century, of not stepping foot in Ireland counts?

How about you address the question of someone being born in Ireland without any other connection (residency or blood)? According to you, they're Irish.

Or how, God forbid, a second generation Irish person might identify more with the country they were born and raised in, rather than Ireland?

Can you not see how badly thought through your ideas are?

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Ah right. Personally, I think they should be let run. If they get elected, great, if not, well they didn't get enough votes. What's the harm?

Helps for integration and all that too.

Mad though, you where on about Australia earlier. Their PM wouldn't be allowed to be PM by your rules!

What can i say,i am true tough political style

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

Accident of birth? Right of birth and of generations of paying tax fighting for this country building it to what it is today.

No i still wouldnt be Chinese i would be a guest.And born there i would be a Irish decedent born in china.

Yes, but they chose to leave the country and contribute to another one. Not much use to us now.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but they chose to leave the country and contribute to another one. Not much use to us now.

Pity JFK wasnt told he wasnt allowed,and came here instead and ran for office

Memnoch

caseyann wrote: »

I said schooled here you are Irish nah you show your love for the country so you are Irish.
Good luck with that wish you the best with your application.

Thanks.

But I feel that you are drawing very arbitrary lines.

I think the point is that when someone is living here 5-10 years and they are integrated in the local community (and I think this holds true no matter what country we're talking about). Then it's only fair to say that they are a citizen of that country.

That's why naturalisation exists.

The Corinthian

caseyann wrote: »

I said schooled here you are Irish nah you show your love for the country so you are Irish.

Tut, tut - you didn't say that. You said (and I've put the relevant bit in bold):

caseyann wrote: »

immigrants must be the child who is born and schooled and is true citizen.

So Memnoch fails to qualify by your definition. Unless you want to change it again?

While we're at it what do you mean by a 'true citizen'? Sounds a bit Robert Heinlein to me.

caseyann

The Corinthian wrote: »

So two generations, totalling less than a century, of not stepping foot in Ireland counts?

How about you address the question of someone being born in Ireland without any other connection (residency or blood)? According to you, they're Irish.

Or how, God forbid, a second generation Irish person might identify more with the country they were born and raised in, rather than Ireland?

Can you not see how badly thought through your ideas are?

Yep they do count especially if they kept their origins alive in the family.

Yep anyone born in Ireland and schooled in Ireland partakes in Irish culture is Irish.

mike kelly

caseyann wrote: »

Yep anyone born in Ireland and schooled in Ireland partakes in Irish culture is Irish.

people can be irish by blood only. a 10th generation irish american is irish, but anyone born here to foreign parents is not irish

The Corinthian

caseyann wrote: »

Yep they do count especially if they kept their origins alive in the family.

LOL. Dreadful rubbish. The problem with immigrant communities is the culture they keep alive is caught in a timewarp and before long bares no resemblance to the culture in the old country. This is particularly true of Germans and Italians who's families emigrated to the Americas in the ninteeth century, prior to unification - many of them speak dialects that no longer exist in the old country, however it is also very true of many Irish-Americans who still hark back to that priest-ridden, potato-eating land of thatched cottages that I'm glad no longer exists.

caseyann

The Corinthian wrote: »

LOL. Dreadful rubbish. The problem with immigrant communities is the culture they keep alive is caught in a timewarp and before long bares no resemblance to the culture in the old country. This is particularly true of Germans and Italians who's families emigrated to the Americas in the ninteeth century, prior to unification - many of them speak dialects that no longer exist in the old country, however it is also very true of many Irish-Americans who still hark back to that priest-ridden, potato-eating land of thatched cottages that I'm glad no longer exists.

Pity about you isnt it to be ashamed of your heritage.

Yeah and if didnt exist you wouldnt be who you are today.Those priest ridden times fed the hungry and died helping :rolleyes:

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

people can be irish by blood only. a 10th generation irish american is irish, but anyone born here to foreign parents is not irish

I disagree,two of my friends are adopted African kids into Irish families and as Irish as they come.

Mena

mike kelly wrote: »

people can be irish by blood only. a 10th generation irish american is irish, but anyone born here to foreign parents is not irish

What are they then? Take my daughter for example, she's going on 10, and has only once been out of the country on a holiday once. Apart from that has never left.

She speaks Irish, has an "Irish" accent and has lived here all her life. All her friends are Irish, it's all she knows.

mike kelly

caseyann wrote: »

I disagree,two of my friends are adopted African kids into Irish families and as Irish as they come.

no, they are not irish, they are africans

mike kelly

Mena wrote: »

What are they then? Take my daughter for example, she's going on 10, and has only once been out of the country on a holiday once. Apart from that has never left.

She speaks Irish, has an "Irish" accent and has lived here all her life. All her friends are Irish, it's all she knows.

but you are not irish? then neither is she

Mena

mike kelly wrote: »

but you are not irish? then neither is she

Unfortunately for you, she is, legally and culturally.

caseyann

Memnoch wrote: »

Thanks.

But I feel that you are drawing very arbitrary lines.

I think the point is that when someone is living here 5-10 years and they are integrated in the local community (and I think this holds true no matter what country we're talking about). Then it's only fair to say that they are a citizen of that country.

That's why naturalisation exists.

Naturalization is nothing more then a piece of paper.
You may get citizenship but you dont need it as you are already Irish,its just a formality.
Citizenship doesnt make you Irish or whatever.

You are welcome.I have a friend who applied for that and wouldnt mean as much to her as it does to you,But it does take an awful long time.I hope yours comes through fast for you

caseyann

mike kelly wrote: »

no, they are not irish, they are africans

Mike they speak Irish fluently they live Irish way they are schooled Irish,they would kick your butt if you called them anything else they are Irish in Heart and mind and know nothing else.Their blood has nothing to do with it.

mike kelly

Mena wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, she is, legally and culturally.

but not by blood which is all that counts

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

Yep they do count especially if they kept their origins alive in the family.

Yep anyone born in Ireland and schooled in Ireland partakes in Irish culture is Irish.

Your position is just posturing.

You stated your position clearly and when asked by Memnoch, "Am I Irish?" you weasled out of it.