appealing clamping

Slaacer

Hi,

Pretty sure I'm not the first one with this query. My wife was parked in a NCPS car park (coolmine train station) and as every morning she got the ticket and put in on the dashboard - passager side behind the insurance/tax/nct disks. when she got back to the car on the evening the car was clamped and she called them (NCPS) they claimed it was due to failing to display a valid ticket.

She got clamped for failing to show a valid ticket. She purchased the ticket that morning at 7:34 and displayed it on the dashboard but their pictures don't show it -of course !!! anyway after appealing the case through webappeal they rejected it saying the ticket is not valid until displayed and their operative could not see any ticket and the onus is on the user to clearly display the ticket.

I don't mind being fined if she hadn't paid but in this case she paid, displayed and still got fined. We have the ticket to prove she paid but then on the display it's their say and picture not showing the ticket off course against our say. Do we have any case ???

And they say to go further we can appeal this decision to the Independent Parking appeal services. Who are they ?

PCPhoto

just contact a solicitor and go through the courts - hit them where it hurts - financially !!

(the stress...hassle of doing it all - should count for some compensation)

TouchingVirus

Slaacer wrote: »

Hi,

Pretty sure I'm not the first one with this query. My wife was parked in a NCPS car park (coolmine train station) and as every morning she got the ticket and put in on the dashboard - passager side behind the insurance/tax/nct disks. when she got back to the car on the evening the car was clamped and she called them (NCPS) they claimed it was due to failing to display a valid ticket.

She got clamped for failing to show a valid ticket. She purchased the ticket that morning at 7:34 and displayed it on the dashboard but their pictures don't show it -of course !!! anyway after appealing the case through webappeal they rejected it saying the ticket is not valid until displayed and their operative could not see any ticket and the onus is on the user to clearly display the ticket.

I don't mind being fined if she hadn't paid but in this case she paid, displayed and still got fined. We have the ticket to prove she paid but then on the display it's their say and picture not showing the ticket off course against our say. Do we have any case ???

And they say to go further we can appeal this decision to the Independent Parking appeal services. Who are they ?

Did the ticket fall off the dashboard or?

Diddler1977

Slaacer wrote: »

Hi,

Pretty sure I'm not the first one with this query. My wife was parked in a NCPS car park (coolmine train station) and as every morning she got the ticket and put in on the dashboard - passager side behind the insurance/tax/nct disks. when she got back to the car on the evening the car was clamped and she called them (NCPS) they claimed it was due to failing to display a valid ticket.

She got clamped for failing to show a valid ticket. She purchased the ticket that morning at 7:34 and displayed it on the dashboard but their pictures don't show it -of course !!! anyway after appealing the case through webappeal they rejected it saying the ticket is not valid until displayed and their operative could not see any ticket and the onus is on the user to clearly display the ticket.

I don't mind being fined if she hadn't paid but in this case she paid, displayed and still got fined. We have the ticket to prove she paid but then on the display it's their say and picture not showing the ticket off course against our say. Do we have any case ???

And they say to go further we can appeal this decision to the Independent Parking appeal services. Who are they ?

How could it be seen from the front of the window when it was positioned behind the discs?

The ticket would need to be visible.

tommy21

PCPhoto wrote: »

just contact a solicitor and go through the courts - hit them where it hurts - financially !!

(the stress...hassle of doing it all - should count for some compensation)

That's ridiculous, the solicitor fees will cost much more than the ticket anyway.

tommy21

Slaacer wrote: »

Hi,

Pretty sure I'm not the first one with this query. My wife was parked in a NCPS car park (coolmine train station) and as every morning she got the ticket and put in on the dashboard - passager side behind the insurance/tax/nct disks. when she got back to the car on the evening the car was clamped and she called them (NCPS) they claimed it was due to failing to display a valid ticket.

She got clamped for failing to show a valid ticket. She purchased the ticket that morning at 7:34 and displayed it on the dashboard but their pictures don't show it -of course !!! anyway after appealing the case through webappeal they rejected it saying the ticket is not valid until displayed and their operative could not see any ticket and the onus is on the user to clearly display the ticket.

I don't mind being fined if she hadn't paid but in this case she paid, displayed and still got fined. We have the ticket to prove she paid but then on the display it's their say and picture not showing the ticket off course against our say. Do we have any case ???

And they say to go further we can appeal this decision to the Independent Parking appeal services. Who are they ?

Is this a private or public car park? If private, then this is a grey area in terms of you having to pay. Someone else on boards.ie had a similar query a while back, can't find the thread. More info here though: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets

dudara

They have a picture of the car, and the ticket isn't visible in the photo - correct?

The rules state that a ticket has to be clearly visible - does your wife remember where she positioned the ticket, or if it got knocked to the floor etc?

Paulw

tommy21 wrote: »

Is this a private or public car park? If private, then this is a grey area in terms of you having to pay.

The fee was already paid, and they're trying to get the money back.

The issue is pay and display. If the parking ticket is not visible, then you've no chance of getting a refund.

Slaacer

My wife is pregnant and only got back to the car on the evening so didn't exactly remembers but told me she left the ticket on the dashboard where she normally leaves it on the passenger side behind the disks...

Slaacer

am I right to say that pictures have no legal "power" - in that they can't be used for evidence as they can easily be modified ?

normally leave the ticket there when the passenger door is the closed door to open when coming back from the ticket machine or otherwise she leaves it on the driver side...

The problem here is that they say we didn't display - we say we did. We have the ticket to prove she bought it. But is a picture enough evidence to say the ticket wasn't shown ?

in this parking you don't pay per hour but for the day as the parking is to "help" users get the train. so if you don't pay you leave yourself wide open. She used the car park every day and did nothing different that day.

RangeR

Slaacer wrote: »

but their pictures don't show it -of course !!!

Ask for this picture. It will tell you who is right or wrong.

Ticktactoe

Was there only one picture taken or was there more than one and from different angles? Basically, if he tried would he have been able to see it?

gerardduff

Slaacer wrote: »

The problem here is that they say we didn't display - we say we did.

Call the cops! The NCPS guy should be arrested for interfering with your property.

I'm all for clamping if it is done to stop illegal parking. Clamping has definitely sorted out a lot of the idiot parking you used to see around town. Now these NCPS guys are running out of targets so they clamp everyone. I've heard so many stories in seems no car is safe. "Promoting sensible parking my ar$e!"

jor el

Slaacer wrote: »

The problem here is that they say we didn't display - we say we did. We have the ticket to prove she bought it. But is a picture enough evidence to say the ticket wasn't shown ?

If they have a photo showing that the ticket was not visible, do you have one showing that it is? Get a copy of their photo and see for yourself anyway. If the ticket is not visible, then the clamping was legit. It's all about what you can prove. If you have no proof that the ticket was displayed, then you loose.

If it comes down to taking further action, then the Small Claims court may be an option, though I'm not sure you can actually use that in a case like this. No solicitor needed for that.

gerardduff wrote: »

Call the cops! The NCPS guy should be arrested for interfering with your property.

A ridiculous suggestion. Don't waste Garda time with something that is nothing to do with them.

Atlantic Dawn

Slaacer wrote: »

am I right to say that pictures have no legal "power" - in that they can't be used for evidence as they can easily be modified ?

NCPS have no legal power in Ireland to interfere with any vehicle and place a clamp on it, what they do have is vans with drivers that clamp cars in areas where landowners have given them permission to control parking. Private clamping in Ireland is unregulated and you are simply paying to have the clamp removed with no legal basis for it to be placed there in the first place, it's similar to extortion. Clamping businesses are unlicensed and a Class 1 criminal could setup a clamping company in the morning and extort any level of cash from a clamp they wish (I'm not implying that NCPS was setup by a Class 1 criminal). Clamping companies should fall under the licencing of the PSA.

An "appeal" is a waste of time as there's no independantly verifiable appeals process.

tommy21

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

NCPS have no legal power in Ireland to interfere with any vehicle and place a clamp on it, what they do have is vans with drivers that clamp cars in areas where landowners have given them permission to control parking. Private clamping in Ireland is unregulated and you are simply paying to have the clamp removed with no legal basis for it to be placed there in the first place, it's similar to extortion. Clamping businesses are unlicensed and a Class 1 criminal could setup a clamping company in the morning and extort any level of cash from a clamp they wish (I'm not implying that NCPS was setup by a Class 1 criminal). Clamping companies should fall under the licencing of the PSA.

An "appeal" is a waste of time as there's no independantly verifiable appeals process.

If this is the case could the OP not theoretically sue for damage/interfering with their property?

Paulw

tommy21 wrote: »

If this is the case could the OP not theoretically sue for damage/interfering with their property?

Yes, in theory. But, it would require a civil case, and you'd need to have money and a good solicitor. No one has yet taken such a case.

tommy21

Paulw wrote: »

Yes, in theory. But, it would require a civil case, and you'd need to have money and a good solicitor. No one has yet taken such a case.

Let's float the OP and as a consortium be the first to do so.

1) Tommy21 - 10€

cormie

jor el wrote: »

If they have a photo showing that the ticket was not visible, do you have one showing that it is? Get a copy of their photo and see for yourself anyway. If the ticket is not visible, then the clamping was legit. It's all about what you can prove. If you have no proof that the ticket was displayed, then you loose.

If it comes down to taking further action, then the Small Claims court may be an option, though I'm not sure you can actually use that in a case like this. No solicitor needed for that.



A ridiculous suggestion. Don't waste Garda time with something that is nothing to do with them.

But surely they would need an array of photos, infact, probably thousands, from every possible angle that you can look into the car to ensure they definitely could not see it. Slaacer has proof in that he has a ticket. They've probably snapped about 4 or 5 photos..

gerardduff

tommy21 wrote: »

Let's float the OP and as a consortium be the first to do so.

1) Tommy21 - 10€

2) gerardduff-80€

niallon

NCPS kindly took €90 from me for a clamp removal...outside my own house! Of course I wouldn't have dared pay the fee but for the fact that I was under severe pressure at the time. I was moving stuff out of my house under a deadline and instead of parking in the driveway I parked out towards the footpath which is permit parking only. I, honestly, got out of the car, opened the boot, walked in and grabbed the first lot and came out to find captain w**ker clamping the car. I was straight over to him showing the open door on the house, my keys etc. protesting that I was living in the house I was parked outside but he was having none of it, just kept pointing to the careline number on the form he had stuck to my windscreen (staining it in the process).

I rang the number and was told that I should have appealed to the clamper there and then and something could have been done!!! I begrudgingly paid over the money, €30 extra if you pay cash too!, and proceeded to lodge my appeal. I was informed in the reply to my appeal that there is no evidence of me loading my car (there is actually one photo El W**ker took that shows me standing beside the car on the phone to the careline!!). I informed them that I thought it wise to close and lock up my car whilst a strange man walked around it taking pictures. They recommended me to this other crowd who charge €50 for the appeal, I told them to shove it and that I wouldn't give up my appeal with them, at which point they removed my case file from their website.

Basically what I'm trying to say is court is the only option, these bloodless hounds won't give you a single minute to plead your case.

BnB

I know it is too late now, but the only way to appeal a clamping by a private clamping company is with an angle grinder. It is the only language they speak.

Cabaal

Diddler1977 wrote: »

How could it be seen from the front of the window when it was positioned behind the discs?

The ticket would need to be visible.

Agreed putting the ticket behind the tax, insurance and NCT discs doesn't seem like a very visable place to put it, surely given the driver is putting the ticket in their car it would make sense to put it on the dashboard at the drivers side

Cabaal

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

NCPS have no legal power in Ireland to interfere with any vehicle and place a clamp on it, what they do have is vans with drivers that clamp cars in areas where landowners have given them permission to control parking.

See here's the thing, the land owner has given them permission to operate clamps on that land, you are parking on private property and as such are subject to the T&C's of parking on that property.

If you parked in my driveway I could park in front of you and refuse to move my car, legally its my land and there's nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like the risks and T&C's of parking on private property then don't park on it,

Cabaal

BnB wrote: »

I know it is too late now, but the only way to appeal a clamping by a private clamping company is with an angle grinder. It is the only language they speak.

So how is them clamping your car not ok but you destroying their property ok?
Removal of the clamp without damage is the proper way of doing things
:rolleyes:

cormie

Don't forget though that when it's on private property they can't refuse to give you your car back. They must not impede you from taking your property (car/van) back from them if you wish. There's been a good few threads on this before, they can't legally hold your car and must give it back to you on request as far as was established in the other threads

thebiglad

Slaacer wrote: »

The problem here is that they say we didn't display - we say we did. We have the ticket to prove she bought it. But is a picture enough evidence to say the ticket wasn't shown ?
QUOTE]

Playing devil's advocate here but how can you prove the ticket you hold (dated appropriately etc) was purchased for the vehicle which was clamped?

The only way you could win this appeal is to prove that the ticket was appropriately displayed.

RangeR

thebiglad wrote: »

The only way you could win this appeal is to prove that the ticket was appropriately displayed.

By asking for the photo they took. OP, did you request that photo?

Blanchguy

You could try the independent appeals route. As far as I know the independent guy is the same guy who you appeal to if you are clamped by Dublin City Council. He is a reasonable man. You can see the sort of stuff he grants appeals for by searching online.

Blanchguy

cormie wrote: »

Don't forget though that when it's on private property they can't refuse to give you your car back. They must not impede you from taking your property (car/van) back from them if you wish. There's been a good few threads on this before, they can't legally hold your car and must give it back to you on request as far as was established in the other threads

So you are saying that you just need to ring NCPS and say the magic words "I want my car back" and they will be around like a shot to de clamp you? Seems a little too easy....

cormie

As far as I know, and I've read many a topic on this, yes