S type Jaguar 2.5 petrol

gigabit

Hi all newbie here, I have been reading these threads for a while now and I need some advice please.

I drive a very sensible 11 year old 2L diesel car. It will be 12 very soon and will need at least a grand to NCT it. I can trade this in with 5 grand and get an 04 S type, full FSH, perfect condition, new NCT.

I already know this is a completely insane idea but I figure that I always wanted one. I would like to know if anyone here has one and give me an idea of how stupid an idea this is, or should I just go for it.

Thanks

Max Power1

gigabit wrote: »

Hi all newbie here, I have been reading these threads for a while now and I need some advice please.

I drive a very sensible 11 year old 2L diesel car. It will be 12 very soon and will need at least a grand to NCT it. I can trade this in with 5 grand and get an 04 S type, full FSH, perfect condition, new NCT.

I already know this is a completely insane idea but I figure that I always wanted one. I would like to know if anyone here has one and give me an idea of how stupid an idea this is, or should I just go for it.

Thanks

Well Im not too familiar with the Jag, but on a simpler level - going from a 2L diesel to a 2.5L petrol is going to hit your pocket Big time when it comes to MPG!

Anan1

How much do you drive? And how good is the S-Type? (any car i've ever seen that's been described as 'perfect' is always a bit ratty.;))

gigabit

Max Power1 wrote: »

Well Im not too familiar with the Jag, but on a simpler level - going from a 2L diesel to a 2.5L petrol is going to hit your pocket Big time when it comes to MPG!

Yeah I get 40ish mpg at the mo. S does about 30

Anan1 wrote: »

How much do you drive? And how good is the S-Type? (any car i've ever seen that's been described as 'perfect' is always a bit ratty.;))

No this is perfect. I drive about 10k a year. Tax is 250 more a year than my car. I know it is an insane idea

Gophur

gigabit wrote: »

Yeah I get 40ish mpg at the mo. S does about 30

...........

I admire your optimism! (You'll be lucky to get 30mpg)

On the other hand I do admire your taste, the Jag is a beautiful car.

voxpop

I went (just recently) from a 1.9 tdi golf to a 2.5 petrol 5-series. Bit of a shock to the system alright, but I always had a hankering to get a straight 6 (or bigger) bimmer and it was cheap to buy. I dont want to end up being 50 and have only driven sensible diesels all my life wondering what could have been.


Oh the car does ~25 around town taking it handy and cost me about 40 quid a week on petrol. 40 quid would probably have done the month in the golf

gigabit

voxpop wrote: »

I went (just recently) from a 1.9 tdi golf to a 2.5 petrol 5-series. Bit of a shock to the system alright, but I always had a hankering to get a straight 6 (or bigger) bimmer and it was cheap to buy. I dont want to end up being 50 and have only driven sensible diesels all my life wondering what could have been.

Thanks VOX, This is exactly where I am coming from, I am nearly 40 and I want this like a kid wanting a BMW at xmas.

Anyone know any decent jag mecahnic that could give this a once over

Initial cost is very reasonable, won't be cheap to maintain if anything other than routine oil changes etc is needed though.

blingrhino

hi gigabit

effectively your 11 year old car is worth about a 1k so this jag would be costing you 6k-not bad for a jag you might say
some points to consider

20 -25 mpg at best for city driving
tyres 200 e
insurance tax ??
service more expensive than a bmw and parts very expensive but my main concern would be if something goes wrong i.e a gear box will set you back 3k-4k.
i think you should try and get some warranty even if you have to pay a few quid.
on the plus side beautiful car to drive and easier to sell ,run than the 3.0 model

unkel

There has never been a better time for buying a car with a bigger than average petrol engine. That S-type is a bargain if in good condition. Nice car but not as reliable as some people say. Luxury motoring for peanuts. Do your sums, and if they add up, go for it

unkel

blingrhino wrote: »

effectively your 11 year old car is worth about a 1k

It needs a grand to pass the NCT. This means the car is near worthless imho. Agree with all the rest of your post though, even with mixed driving (not much city) you can't expect more than 25MPG

gigabit

RoverJames wrote: »

Initial cost is very reasonable, won't be cheap to maintain if anything other than routine oil changes etc is needed though.

That is why I am thinking hard about it. It has just ahd a full service and NCT so thats all for 12 months anyway.

blingrhino wrote: »

hi gigabit
20 -25 mpg at best for city driving
tyres 200 e
insurance tax ??
service more expensive than a bmw and parts very expensive but my main concern would be if something goes wrong i.e a gear box will set you back 3k-4k.
i think you should try and get some warranty even if you have to pay a few quid.
on the plus side beautiful car to drive and easier to sell ,run than the 3.0 model

insurance is the same, tax 200 + more a year, has 4 new tyres

i wanted a 2.7 tdi but i do not want to spend 15 grand

will defo try for warranty but can't see it being given on this

gigabit

unkel wrote: »

There has never been a better time for buying a car with a bigger than average petrol engine. That S-type is a bargain if in good condition. Nice car but not as reliable as some people say. Luxury motoring for peanuts. Do your sums, and if they add up, go for it

I know, it is starting to add up nicely

unkel wrote: »

It needs a grand to pass the NCT. This means the car is near worthless imho. Agree with all the rest of your post though, even with mixed driving (not much city) you can't expect more than 25MPG

My car is worthless. It will need shock, breaks, + other suspension stuff, tyres, etc and it is battered looking too.

I do no city driving, tend to use n4 to chapelizod, live in maynooth, friends are in around that area. Maybe one or 2 trips down the country a year too

Gophur

For a price approximately €10k less than a diesel, it's a bargain.

€10k would buy a hell of a lot of fuel.

The S-type had a face-lift in '01 with the later cars being vastly superior to the early ones.

unkel

gigabit wrote: »

I do no city driving, tend to use n4 to chapelizod, live in maynooth, friends are in around that area. Maybe one or 2 trips down the country a year too

And with the traffic lights on the M50 roundabout long gone, 30MPG is a reasonable expectation if you have light foot. How come you're only managing 40MPG with your 2l diesel though?

gigabit

Gophur wrote: »

For a price approximately €10k less than a diesel, it's a bargain.

I know. But I should be thinking with my head.

Gophur wrote: »

€10k would buy a hell of a lot of fuel.

And tax and insurance, and it would put a huge smile on my face.

Gophur wrote: »

The S-type had a face-lift in '01 with the later cars being vastly superior to the early ones.

Had another upgrade in 03 and 04 too.

unkel wrote: »

And with the traffic lights on the M50 roundabout long gone, 30MPG is a reasonable expectation if you have light foot. How come you're only managing 40MPG with your 2l diesel though?

I thought 40 was decent enough from an auto. Mostly short journeys <15 miles.

mondeoman2

tax 200 + more a year,

i[/QUOTE]

How is the Tax only €200 Extra per year???

2.0 tax = €614
2.5 tax = €1120

Absurdum

unkel wrote: »

Do your sums, and if they add up, go for it

that's pretty much what it comes down to! If you want it, get it! Just make sure it's a good one, get a mechanic to check it over, try and get one with a full service history.

frex

gigabit wrote: »

Thanks VOX, This is exactly where I am coming from, I am nearly 40 and I want this like a kid wanting a BMW at xmas.

....you've answered your own question!! Its a good price and with NCT etc covered, its relatively low risk motoring. Go for it...you only live once! I just bought a car I've wanted for years, and it drinks fuel and just needed an exhaust replacing at €100, but the pro's way outweigh the cons.

If you find the VIN (on the metal plate in the windscreen), the lads at Spirit should be able to confirm the history on the car (people moan about their service costs on here, but they are a main dealer and are a seriously helpful bunch of lads). We have a 2.5 petrol S-Type in the family and its pretty reliable.

If you don't, every time you pass one, you'll feel like Santa brought you a skateboard!

high horse

mondeoman2 wrote: »

How is the Tax only €200 Extra per year???



2.0 tax = €614

2.5 tax = €1120

2401 - 2500cc is €935 for the year

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesBasedonEngineSize/

bmw535d

blingrhino wrote: »

hi gigabit

effectively your 11 year old car is worth about a 1k so this jag would be costing you 6k-not bad for a jag you might say
some points to consider

20 -25 mpg at best for city driving
tyres 200 e
insurance tax ??
service more expensive than a bmw and parts very expensive but my main concern would be if something goes wrong i.e a gear box will set you back 3k-4k.
i think you should try and get some warranty even if you have to pay a few quid.
on the plus side beautiful car to drive and easier to sell ,run than the 3.0 model

what kind of tyres are they? bridgestone run flats for a 5 series are 165,goodyear are 175?

unkel

high horse wrote: »

2401 - 2500cc is €935 for the year

Aye, I only noted recently that there are 3 steep increases - when going over 2000, over 2500 and over 3000cc (the last one is known to me for a long time )

high horse

unkel wrote: »

Aye, I only noted recently that there are 3 steep increases - when going over 2000, over 2500 and over 3000cc (the last one is known to me for a long time )

I've never had the pleasure of owning over 3000cc

€935 for a 2.5 litre car isn't too bad though, especially at the price the OP's car is asking

kyote00

Go for it if you like the car --- but don't think you will have a "light foot" ....

I run a 2.5l v6 alfa with annual costs as follows:

- tax = €935
- tyres x 2 (every two years) - €400 (get good tyres, you will need them)
- front wishbones (upper and lower) (every two years) - €600)

a fill up of petrol (60litres) is about €75 - I average about 25mpg (its hard to be light footed when you can listen to a v6 rumble all day)

(PS. I also expect the Greens to make cars like these even more expensive to run in future)

unkel wrote: »

Aye, I only noted recently that there are 3 steep increases - when going over 2000, over 2500 and over 3000cc (the last one is known to me for a long time )

force majeure

Go for it buddy, in these times we all need to spoil ourselves with something nice and to hell with the running costs, your going to spend that money on one thing or another so may as well be a Jag.

mondeoman2

high horse wrote: »

2401 - 2500cc is €935 for the year

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesBasedonEngineSize/

But thats still Not €200 more expensive than 2.0 litre engine

my car is 2544cc which means €1120 per annum:(

MojoMaker

Mondeoman, if you don't know the tax bands at this stage I'd say you're only a casual motorist and not an enthusiast - despite what you might think.

Giga, you're a long time dead and the pennypinchers here are more brow-beaten by the missus that you might think. If you have the freedom and the luxury of getting what you want then feck the naysayers, the accountants, the rigid no-imagination conformists who squeal with fear every payday as they realise how unfulfilled & ultimately disappointing their life is, get the motor, go with the heart, you're a long time dead.

mondeoman2

MojoMaker wrote: »

Mondeoman, if you don't know the tax bands at this stage I'd say you're only a casual motorist and not an enthusiast - despite what you might think.

MojoMaker What are YOU on about???
The Op never said what cc the car was -only 2.5
As i have just moved up from a 2.0 to a 2.5 myself i thought he would be paying the same as me, ie-€1120

mullingar

I have a 98 lexus GS300 with a 2997cc engine, the car including depreciation, tax, Servicing , insurance AND fuel doing 12k miles/yr is a lot cheaper to run per year than a 2 yr old mondeo

4 years I have had it for every day motoring and I do drive it hard and it (touch wood) has never broke down.

Fishtits

Just remember, the next owner will be a breaker.

Meanwhile, enjoy.

gigabit

Fishtits wrote: »

Just remember, the next owner will be a breaker.

Meanwhile, enjoy.

great support here lads:D

force majeure wrote: »

Go for it buddy, in these times we all need to spoil ourselves with something nice and to hell with the running costs, your going to spend that money on one thing or another so may as well be a Jag.

FK it .. It will be my 40th birthday present

mondeoman2 wrote: »

MojoMaker What are YOU on about???
The Op never said what cc the car was -only 2.5
As i have just moved up from a 2.0 to a 2.5 myself i thought he would be paying the same as me, ie-€1120

He means that anyone who is into cars knows that the 2.5 jag is 2495cc. If they didn't know that they would check it out 1st before posting as you did.

I pay my tax by 1/4 so its 173 x 4 = 692. For the jag it will have 1 year tax and new bridgestones incl in the price of 5k with my trade in. So thats another 1300 quid off that price.

Absurdum wrote: »

that's pretty much what it comes down to! If you want it, get it! Just make sure it's a good one, get a mechanic to check it over, try and get one with a full service history.

Defo, looking for a Jag mechanic, it has FSH with breakdown of everything, the worse case scenario is that I lose 5 grand.

mondeoman2

[He means that anyone who is into cars knows that the 2.5 jag is 2495cc. If they didn't know that they would check it out 1st before posting as you did.]

Silly me thinking that is was similar to my own ford duratec V6:D


Good luck with it sounds great,wish my tax was €935.;)

gigabit

mondeoman2 wrote: »

Silly me thinking that is was similar to my own ford duratec V6:D


Good luck with it sounds great,wish my tax was €935.;)

My last car in the states was a ford fusion with that duratec 25 engine. Fab car if anyone has driven one.

What are you driving ... Mondeo?

mullingar wrote: »

I have a 98 lexus GS300 with a 2997cc engine, the car including depreciation, tax, Servicing , insurance AND fuel doing 12k miles/yr is a lot cheaper to run per year than a 2 yr old mondeo

4 years I have had it for every day motoring and I do drive it hard and it (touch wood) has never broke down.

Lovely car. I did want one about 10 years ago.

mondeoman2

gigabit wrote: »

My last car in the states was a ford fusion with that duratec 25 engine. Fab car if anyone has driven one.

What are you driving ... Mondeo?



Hi Gigabit,
Yeah a mondeo st200,not as comfy as the Jag though:o,

frex

Fishtits wrote: »

Just remember, the next owner will be a breaker.

Bit of a random thing to say. Don't mind the unsubstantiated comments Gigabit! Go for it!

You'll find two things with people's opinions when buying Jags. 1 is that they're unreliable and 2 that they are Fords.

I've owned many different makes of car, and sure some Jags go wrong, but so do lots of other makes of car. Toyota have the highest recall rate of their cars, and their Prius is actually so unenvironmentally friendly, its funny....but people say Toyota are green and top quality. Its very often just perception. That 2.5 S-type aint a bad car!

And true the S-type had some platform sharing with Ford, but it was designed and developed by Jaguar engineers. Lambo use Audi and VW bits, and Aston Martin DB9's have a clock from a Ford Ka and many bits off Volvo. But they were both purely Lambo and Aston designed. You'll also find that most people who raise these points have never even owned a Jag, or only go on hearsay.

We're all waiting for the post when you tell us all how much you're loving your new Jag...

gigabit

frex wrote: »

Bit of a random thing to say. Don't mind the unsubstantiated comments Gigabit! Go for it!

You'll find two things with people's opinions when buying Jags. 1 is that they're unreliable and 2 that they are Fords.

I've owned many different makes of car, and sure some Jags go wrong, but so do lots of other makes of car. Toyota have the highest recall rate of their cars, and their Prius is actually so unenvironmentally friendly, its funny....but people say Toyota are green and top quality. Its very often just perception. That 2.5 S-type aint a bad car!

And true the S-type had some platform sharing with Ford, but it was designed and developed by Jaguar engineers. Lambo use Audi and VW bits, and Aston Martin DB9's have a clock from a Ford Ka and many bits off Volvo. But they were both purely Lambo and Aston designed. You'll also find that most people who raise these points have never even owned a Jag, or only go on hearsay.

We're all waiting for the post when you tell us all how much you're loving your new Jag...

Yea me too. I love the S type shape. My mates will be buying me slippers and a pipe to go with it. I should go for the 2.7 diesel but people looking for crazy money and tax is just too high.

I looked at an 06 S type 2.7 twin turbo diesel in bolands the other day. I think 16 grand would do it, maybe less, they have it 2 months. They sold it new and have always serviced it.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/S-Type/Luxury-D/201016197669215/advert?channel=CARS

Decisions

frex

gigabit wrote: »

Yea me too. I love the S type shape. My mates will be buying me slippers and a pipe to go with it. I should go for the 2.7 diesel but people looking for crazy money and tax is just too high.

I looked at an 06 S type 2.7 twin turbo diesel in bolands the other day. I think 16 grand would do it, maybe less, they have it 2 months. They sold it new and have always serviced it.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/S-Type/Luxury-D/201016197669215/advert?channel=CARS

Decisions

I'd say match the car to your needs. The diesel has a lot more pull than the 2.5 petrol, but if you're not interested in racing from A to B, you like the style of the car and just want to cruise about enjoying the car as a package, then a 2.5 petrol with a good spec might be right for you in terms of "total = base price + tax + insurance + fuel cost"? Remember, if you dont plan to put lots of miles on it, then the fuel economy vs vehicle price might favour the petrol.

The 2.7D is an awesome engine, and both Jaguar and Land Rover have sold shed loads of cars with them. But, it is resulting in less depreciation so they'll hold their value reasonably. Like any model venturing into a new engine line, always best to pick one that hasnt been new to market. Diesels came out in 04 with Jag, so 06 will have had plenty of added refinement.

Do yourself a little chart of base price + tax + fuel cost (using the mpg and your average fill) and see how it balances out. Then make your call based on what you want to spend, and what you can get for your money. And haggle like a Moroccan!

PS I'm a fan of the racing green with the cream interior like in that link. Cant get much more traditional Jag than that!

The diesels are (like many others nowadays) prone to awfully expensive problems with the fuel pump etc, loads of little metal bits everywhere, big ball ache if it happens to your one.

sweetswing

what price do you put on "a smile on your face every time you sit in your jag" trust me i know, im on my second jag at the moment 1998 xj8 v8 .
i have been lucky, no problems so far.
when your friends start the slagging about pipe and slippers, take them out in the car and floor it , the slaggings will soon stop.:)
i say go for it , it was the best move i ever made , and i made the jump from a micra.

frex

RoverJames wrote: »

The diesels are (like many others nowadays) prone to awfully expensive problems with the fuel pump etc, loads of little metal bits everywhere, big ball ache if it happens to your one.

!?!? Where did you hear that? Hadn't heard of any unusually high problems with the fuel pumps on the 2.7D.

unkel

sweetswing wrote: »

i made the jump from a micra.

That's class man, I like that

I'd nearly consider having a bumper sticker made up "my previous car was a micra" :cool:

high horse

unkel wrote: »

That's class man, I like that

I'd nearly consider having a bumper sticker made up "my previous car was a micra" :cool:

Somebody else around here (can't remember who) went from a Polo to a 7 Series :cool:

frex

frex wrote: »

!?!? Where did you hear that? Hadn't heard of any unusually high problems with the fuel pumps on the 2.7D.

A buddy has a 2.7 Disco.

frex

RoverJames wrote: »

A buddy has a 2.7 Disco.

Your buddy may have a bit of bad luck with his, but fuel pump problems are not in anyway high on the 2.7D diesels!!

DancingPriest

sweetswing wrote: »

what price do you put on "a smile on your face every time you sit in your jag"

Just do it ffs! I drove a 2.5 a few years back and they really are a cracking machine.

frex

frex wrote: »

Your buddy may have a bit of bad luck with his, but fuel pump problems are not in anyway high on the 2.7D diesels!!

!!!!
Really :rolleyes: That's not what his Land Rover dealer said.

gigabit

RoverJames wrote: »

!!!!
Really :rolleyes: That's not what his Land Rover dealer said.

So I am off down to Wexford tomorrow again to look at an 05 stype 2.7 TD, and then to bolands to see that 06 diesel.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/S-Type/Luxury-D/201016197669215/advert?channel=CARS

Spent a long time really thinking about this over the weekend, the 06 one in the link may be the one to go for. It will have a comp warranty for 1 year. They sold the car new, owner traded it back for another new car, it has FSH Bolands Jag too, they will stand over the car.

They have it on at 18 grand. I would defo be offering a lot less. They have it 7 weeks now.

What should I pay?

unkel

Really, I would go for the petrol!

gigabit

unkel wrote: »

Really, I would go for the petrol!

I know what you're saying, the warranty and history of the 06 bolands one is too good.

I will be bringing the da with me tomorrow, and he will see the 3 of them. Anyone here owned both of these?

Mr Benevolent

gigabit wrote: »

I know what you're saying, the warranty and history of the 06 bolands one is too good.

I will be bringing the da with me tomorrow, and he will see the 3 of them. Anyone here owned both of these?

Get the warranty in writing, if half the stuff written about the 2.7TD is to believed you're going to need it.

On 2.7 diesel in winter engine pre-heater is close to ventilation system and apt to fill the cabin with fumes.

At least one 2.7 diesel has suffered big end failure at 4 years old and models miles, put down by the dealer as 'component failure', definitely not shortage of oil as the car had just been serviced.

2.7 diesel turbos run very hot and are prone to turbo oil seal failures. need to be idled after motorway runs in hot weather, after long ascents, or after towing. 2.7d engines used for short runs from cold starts will clog their particulate filters, leading the the excess fuel for regenerating them dribbling down the bores into the sump, contaminating sump oil and raising its level to a point where the engine may run on it.

Seems to have been a "bad" batch of turbos fitted to 2006 2.7 V6 turbodiesels. Though failure may simply be due to failure by owners to idle the turbos from red hot before switching off. They do get extremely hot, especially after a long ascent.

6-speed autoboxes have required software upgrades. Torque converter failures of 6-speed automatics (known as "gearbox squark") have become quite common. Problem of lurching of ZF autobox covered at www.thelurch.com plus numerous other Jaguar TSBs. This can be temporarily alleviated by using different automatic transmission fluid and an additive. Jaguar has replaced transmissions on 3 - 5 year old cars for as little as £770, calling it a "25% contribution", though the true customer cost of a new transmission would be more than £3,080.

See here as well.

frex

Ok....fuel pump problems are NOT a major warranty issue on 2.7D, despite what was said from a particular dealer. I have it from a sufficiently informed source to be sure.

One diesel big end failure. Thats 1. Certainly not a major problem.

Turbos are a known problem, but Jaguar know about it and have a campaign against it, so worst case, it can be sorted out.

As for DPF clogging causing diesel engines to run-on!?! believe me, the press would go to town on it. If the full DPF light comes on, just boot it a bit for a few minutes and it will regenerate. The OP's described journeys are unlikely to prevent regeneration.

Any auto reflashes will have happened as part of the first service and will not need future remedying. Squawk is not a failure of the torque converter and is only a noise that can be very simply resolved by replacing the fluid. It has no ill effects on the operation of the transmission. The issue was resolved in 2006 so the Bolands car is not likely to ever suffer from it.

Sure some owners have had problems, as with any car, but I know more people with good ones than bad ones. Folks - if you were trying to stop the guy buying a Toyota with a sticking throttle, that would be one thing, but the way everyone is having a go at the diesel Jags, you'd swear there are none on the road. The same engine is in the diesel XF and its still winning awards every other week.