Cornering - Tips

damoz

Went to my first club race last night. Didnt trouble the podium, but got around safe and didnt hinder anyone else - so for a first time effort im happy enough with that.

One thing i did notice was how slow i was through the corners (2 accute left handers) compared to the more seasoned roadies. So im wondering if there are any tips out there to help me improve.

What position should the pedals be - i assume outside pedal down with weight on it ?
Should i change gear before reaching the corner to be able to apply some power coming out of it etc....

basically any tips or adivce would be appreciated.

The other thing i learned last night - need more hill work.

seamus

A tip someone else here gave, I found has worked very well - look at where you want to go and the bike will follow. It sounds daft, but it works.

Always corner with the inside pedal at 12 o'clock. If you're turning right, the inside pedal is the right one. This will let you get the best lean (and stop your pedal from hitting the ground).

It appears that most of it is about experience - gaining the confidence to lean further and further and being aware of just how sharply the bike turns.

My main problem is that I slow down and halfway through the corner I realise that I could have taken it much quicker.

rottenhat

It's counter-intuitive but when you're cornering at speed you turn the bars slightly out of the turn, not into it - this allows you to lean more which is what is really making you turn.

iregk

Do a search. There was a thread not long ago on this.

Lumen

Many club racers are crap at cornering, at least in the lower cats (I don't exclude myself from that).

After pathetically bailing out last night in the Phoenix Park I was standing at the top of the Khyber watching the A3s and A4s go round. The amount of braking through the corner in small groups was ridiculous.

Just remember that your tyres only have so much grip, so you should give them as little to do as possible, and preferably only one thing at a time.

If you're on your own: brakes on hard, brakes off, turn in, apex, power out. Blend these together smoothly and you'll fly round.

Or if in a bunch: brake gently, hold your line, power out.

That's my understanding anyway. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to practice on open roads.

crashoveroid

From what i have picked up if you can corner with out touching your brakes is best when i ride The Barrs Course in Cork i don't have to touch my brakes on any corner.

When you are going around a corner no need to have the knee out as well you get a better center of gravity with your knees tucked in.


Hope this helps

Lumen

crashoveroid wrote: »

From what i have picked up if you can corner with out touching your brakes is best when i ride The Barrs Course in Cork i don't have to touch my brakes on any corner.

This is true, but then if you don't need to brake it's not really a corner, it's a bend.

km991148

In any form of transport braking mid turn can only be bad (well when racing at least, it can be fun otherwise..!)

crashoveroid

Lumen wrote: »

This is true, but then if you don't need to brake it's not really a corner, it's a bend.

Then cut the corner might work better go wide and no braking needed.

thebouldwhacker

....this coming from someone who has CRASH in their name, hmmmm:pac:;)

iregk

As I said in previous threads the best advice I've ever been given was from Sean Kelly himself.

Both brakes rear slightly before front and do all breaking before the corner, never in it. Breaking in the corner upsets your balance. Inside foot up outside foot down. Lean rather than turn, pick your line and stick to it. Dont' look right in front of you look ahead, you will be smoother. Where you look the bike follows. That last one is the best piece of advice i could give anyone be it on a bend or for general straight smoothness.

Some people are divided on the whole knees in knees out argument. I've played both sides of it and gone through phases of both. At present im in my knees in as I feel more streamlined and I don't think knees out gives me anything extra.

damoz

Some good tips.

I think there a big difference based on the severity of the bend. I guess its a case of practice and confidence - hopefully it will improve with time as there is nothing as tiring as closing a gap after ever sharp bend.

damoz

iregk wrote: »

Do a search. There was a thread not long ago on this.

i searched - didnt see any thread - if you know of one just add the link. Thanks.

Beasty

iregk wrote: »

I don't think knees out gives me anything extra.

Looking at thebouldwacker's signature, if knees out worked for Einstein...

Lumen

There may also be some merit in pedalling through corners to maintain control. I think the risk of pedal strike is often overestimated.

Check out the way the bunch takes this one...

(from another thread)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T25fqnRb-mU

Lumen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcVkv--kjIw

damoz

Lumen wrote: »

There may also be some merit in pedalling through corners to maintain control. I think the risk of pedal strike is often overestimated.

Check out the way the bunch takes this one...

(from another thread)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T25fqnRb-mU

maybe changing bike on the apex would be the quickest.

But seriously - thats a bend, not a corner. Im talking 270 degee plus turn - probably closer to 300 degree - or a hairpin basically.

abcdggs

A 300 degree turn ???

Lumen

damoz wrote: »

But seriously - thats a bend, not a corner.

They make it look like a bend but for me, on cobbles, it would be a corner.

Lumen

abcdggs wrote: »

A 300 degree turn ???

abcdggs

I mean surely it would be a "close to 180 degree turn" rather than "close to 360". Apologies if i'm being pedantic, just trying to figure out if i'm going mad(er)...

El Tarangu

The 7 11 Cycling Team's guide to cornering

damoz

abcdggs wrote: »

I mean surely it would be a "close to 180 degree turn" rather than "close to 360". Apologies if i'm being pedantic, just trying to figure out if i'm going mad(er)...

well it would be closer to 360 if its more that 270

more confused now?

IM0

abcdggs wrote: »

I mean surely it would be a "close to 180 degree turn" rather than "close to 360". Apologies if i'm being pedantic, just trying to figure out if i'm going mad(er)...

where Im from we tend to call them roundabouts

abcdggs

damoz wrote: »

well it would be closer to 360 if its more that 270

more confused now?

yes...

surely a harpin:

would be 180degrees. Right?

damoz

sure 180 is a straingt line. maybe my technical drawing in the Leaving cert is confusing me.

lets just call it an acute angle bend.

blorg

You can pedal through 90 degrees no problem. I've had pedal strike pedalling through the hairpin on the Brittas club race circuit (which is a lot tighter than that photo incidentally.)

Gavin

damoz wrote: »

sure 180 is a straingt line. maybe my technical drawing in the Leaving cert is confusing me.

lets just call it an acute angle bend.

180 degrees is to face behind you and go that way

360 degrees is to turn yourself in a complete circle and keep going the way you were.

niceonetom

Gavin wrote: »

180 degrees is to face behind you and go that way

360 degrees is to turn yourself in a complete circle and keep going the way you were.

Nonsense.

What's this:


That's a 180* bend that is.

damoz

Gavin wrote: »

180 degrees is to face behind you and go that way

360 degrees is to turn yourself in a complete circle and keep going the way you were.

ok. 120 degree bend it is so. QED

so break early - not during the turn
change down gear before - to aid acceleration out of it
weight on outside pedal and it down.
lean.
complete turn using the best available racing line
accelerate out.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

That's a 180* bend that is.

No, it's a 360° bend of infinite radius.

Hungrycol

damoz wrote: »

ok. 120 degree bend it is so. QED

so break early - not during the turn
change down gear before - to aid acceleration out of it
weight on outside pedal and it down.
lean.
complete turn using the best available racing line
accelerate out.

I find "accelerate" a bit of an understatement. Sprint like your life depends on it is a better description IMO.

concussion

I find shifting my weight back slightly and pushing out my inside knee helps a lot (in addition ot all the advice given already)

dave2pvd

Some other observations:

• Be towards the front, as there is less slowing, and less acceleration after the exit. So, less energy consumed.
• Hands in the drops.
• Weight (your ar$e) slightly back in the saddle.
• Use this inflation guide. Don't over-inflate like the rest of the population.
• Get pedaling as soon as you can - ideally in the corner. You need to become pretty intimate with where your pedal-strike angle is.
• Enter wide, apex appropriately, exit wide. If you can.
• Stay away from riders who can't corner worth a d@mn. In other words, be at the front.
• Don't even think about 'counter-steering'. Just look where you need to go and lean. The counter steering business should be happening without conscious thought.
• Knees out doesn't really do anything for you.
• Remember to brake late and pass a dozen riders up the inside line

dave.obrien

I'm not the best at cornering (at all), but I have noticed that I'm a lot better when I don't think about it too much. The obvious things like no braking and not tyre-watching not withstanding, the more thought I've put into where I need to be and how I should strategically approach a corner, the more I've become nervous and twitchy, and taken it badly. When I relax, and take it as it comes, while being aware of it's severity, I tend to end up being in roughly the right place anyway.

blorg

A key thing to remember with all of this is that how you corner in a bunch is entirely different from how you corner on your own. A lot of advice particularly about your line on your own is not applicable in a bunch, where you should follow the line of the rider in front of you and make sure you are not cutting off the riders either side of you.

dave2pvd

blorg wrote: »

A key thing to remember with all of this is that how you corner in a bunch is entirely different from how you corner on your own. A lot of advice particularly about your line on your own is not applicable in a bunch, where you should follow the line of the rider in front of you and make sure you are not cutting off the riders either side of you.

Good points blorg.

So, some more on the topic:

• Move into the rider on your outside. Squeeze him a bit. This allows you to enter the corner a bit wider.
• Try to be slightly ahead of the rider to your inside. This can compel him to turn when YOU want to turn.
• Cornering fast, single file-ish: try to apex slightly inside the rider in front of you. Entering slightly wider can enable this. Why do this? If he washes out, he won't take your front wheel with him.
• If your group is approaching a turn, say a sharp 90, with gravel or sand on the apex, there may be an opportunity to jam up on the inside, as everyone will be cr@pping themselves about riding over the sand/gravel. Same goes for potholed apexes (apexii?).
• Sharpen your elbows. Use them if you need to. More as 'fenders' than as weapons, of course. Hands must be kept on bars during the race.

blorg

To be brutally honest I wouldn't be advising beginner riders to try to make up places on corners. That sort of thing leads to crashes and it's not as if there is not plenty of other opportunity to move up safely in A4/club league races. I recall a recent club race where the commissare bawled riders out of it for attacking on a corner. When you have a bit more experience and see an opportunity to do it safely maybe.

dave2pvd

blorg wrote: »

To be brutally honest I wouldn't be advising beginner riders to try to make up places on corners. That sort of thing leads to crashes and it's not as if there is not plenty of other opportunity to move up safely in A4/club league races. I recall a recent club race where the commissare bawled riders out of it for attacking on a corner. When you have a bit more experience and see an opportunity to do it safely maybe.

You're right.

I get enthusiastic about this kind of thing.

Getting the basics right and holding position ought to be the first goal.