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UberPrinny_Baal · 15-05-2010 12:23am

Dunjohn wrote:

The Fireball - taunt KO is kind-of the Holy Grail for me. I haven't managed it yet.

I have at least one saved replay of me pulling it off, but I got my taunt numbers wrong, so I only got Dee Jays "SsssHeh heh heh"; whereas I was going for the awesome "Don't forget to download ma new album!"

Don't have a replay with that yet.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I
Is it cheap? By the Sirlin definition of what a scrub considers cheap, yes. Does it matter?

Actually by Sirlin's definition, as soon as you call something cheap, you're a scrub.

I like his one a lot more than the standard one, as it's much easier to quantify.

The whole "Bad player who thinks he's good" thing is too nebulous for me. Depending on your point of view, everyone could be a bad player, Daigo for example. And hell, he loses too, so he's a scrub. We're all scrubs.

Doctor DooM · 15-05-2010 12:30am

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I have at least one saved replay of me pulling it off, but I got my taunt numbers wrong, so I only got Dee Jays "SsssHeh heh heh"; whereas I was going for the awesome "Don't forget to download ma new album!"

Don't have a replay with that yet.

Actually by Sirlin's definition, as soon as you call something cheap, you're a scrub.

I like his one a lot more than the standard one, as it's much easier to quantify.

The whole "Bad player who thinks he's good" thing is too nebulous for me. Depending on your point of view, everyone could be a bad player, Daigo for example. And hell, he loses too, so he's a scrub. We're all scrubs.

Actually I read it more as a person who goes "ooooh thats cheap, it's cheating" instead of going "how do I beat that?" and learning is a scrub.

A bad player who thinks he's good is not the definition of a scrub, you can be a really good player and have scrubby moments (I do every now and then, and the amount of people who lose their heads over Guile's airthrow saying it's totally unfair... even though all you have to do is launch an attack early to stop it).

It's the imposition of self created rules and restrictions which cause scrubbiness, not the quality of play.

Owwmykneecap · 15-05-2010 12:30am

Yeah but also, Sirlin's a knob.:D

He wanted a rewind feature in his plans for SFIV.

UberPrinny_Baal · 15-05-2010 12:36am

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Sirlin's a knob.:D

He wanted a rewind feature in his plans for SFIV.

It does seem like as a person, he's a knob.

As a game designer though, I think he's really good.

Have you a link to this rewind thing? Didn't hear about that.

Orim · 15-05-2010 12:44am

I don't see the issue with Sirlin. He's very arrogant about the things he likes but so are most people to one degree or another.

I like him as a game designer. I generally agree with his thoughts on game design, I think he did a good job on HDR, Kongai was a great game for it was and I haven't played yomi yet but I've read about it and the design seems good.

Sisko · 15-05-2010 12:45am

Yeah he's totally up his own arse all right but that article is essential.

@ UberPrinny_Baal, ah I don't have a link but I read about it ages ago, basically years ago Sirlin made a push for SF4 himself and its 'parry/focus' feature was something to do with rewinding the last combo that was done to you. You could only do it once so the 'mind game' was all about choosing the right moment to do it.

Or some shite

LOLZ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtdqJ9hHlcY

Owwmykneecap · 15-05-2010 12:53am

http://www.unseen64.net/2009/02/09/street-fighter-iv-flashback-x360ps3-concept/

jayteecork · 15-05-2010 1:47am

Sisko wrote: »

@jayteecork

Theres nothing wrong with beating someone with chip damage. I think I'll have to link you Sirlins article , just so you understand where everyone's coming from and to avoid misunderstandings.

Its a good read man, and you'll be glad you read it down the line.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Interesting article.
I guess Henry and France should applauded as they "play to win" whereas the Republic of Ireland are nothing but Untermensch "Scrubs". 99.9% of the population scum, lol.

He makes some ok points, in that if you want to compete at elitist levels(which is a reward in itself) you must be ready to know all "cheap" tactics both to use and to defend against.

However if you're playing SSFIV online, you may realise that your current opponent is a "scrub" or, more likely, a beginner, and you realise that he can't defend against a certain attack of yours. You spam it for the match and win via double perfect. Hooray you've beaten some faceless Frenchman who's new to the game and learned absolutely nothing in doing so.

Can't see how "playing to win" in that scenario is something you'd want to attain to.

I'd consider myself somewhere between "playing to win" and being a "scrub".
I don't honestly have the time or dedication or even skill to compete at the highest levels. When I play online I play to win but playing casually against randoms like Pedro in Barcelona doesn't make me want to spam a move i know he can't defend against.

There's honour in victory, lol. However if it was "winner stays on" in the arcade I might play to a different tune ^^.

(That's my 2 cents off the top of my head, take of it what you will)

Ps: finally found out what exactly a Scrub is. Someone called me it playing world of warcraft once. It wasn't pvp related, I rolled on an item that he wanted and I won. He kept calling me a Scrub. Langer.

bush · 15-05-2010 1:59am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

LOL I still don't know what the timing is to jump over it

Im pretty sure guile can do nothing about it.

I got some great tips off someone that i beat tonight. Throw less and vary my combos. Why would I do less damaging combos just for the sake of doing something different. I wouldnt mind but I dont think he did one combo the whole time.

Orim · 15-05-2010 2:10am

Bush80 wrote: »

Im pretty sure guile can do nothing about it.

I got some great tips off someone that i beat tonight. Throw less and vary my combos. Why would I do less damaging combos just for the sake of doing something different. I wouldnt mind but I dont think he did one combo the whole time.

Your so cheap. Don't you know that some people play for fun. They have honour and don't spam one move for the win.

Doctor DooM · 15-05-2010 2:11am

jayteecork wrote: »

Interesting article.
I guess Henry and France should applauded as they "play to win" whereas the Republic of Ireland are nothing but Untermensch "Scrubs". 99.9% of the population scum, lol.

No. Because engaging in rule breaking is not the same as utilising the optimum techniques in a game. The comparison would be more apt if you said Henry is the equivalent of physically hitting the other player in the middle of the game.

You're actually applying arbitrary rules in your argument above.

Which is fine for you if you want to do it, but not fine if you think others should bow to your own, completely arbitrary, rules.

Sisko · 15-05-2010 2:18am

jayteecork wrote: »

Interesting article.
I guess Henry and France should applauded as they "play to win" whereas the Republic of Ireland are nothing but Untermensch "Scrubs". 99.9% of the population scum, lol.

You still don't understand it would seem. Nothing is cheap in street fighter.

Nothing. You can keep putting this block on yourself if you want. Ask anyone who knows anything about fighting games and they'll tell you they were all at your place at one stage, once they got past it, their game sky rocketed. They also enjoyed the game a hell of a lot more.

If I play you online and discover you can't deal with tick throws. I'm gonna make it my business to constantly tick throw you over and over and over again until you either learn how to deal with it, or ragequit.

Am I being an arsehole? No. I'm doing you a favor. You can make the choice in your head to be what some call 'a scub' and decided, this guys just being cheap, all he can do is throw me this is lame.

Or you can think 'he keeps getting me with this, how do I counter it' and figure out how to counter it, then wait for that next inevitable attempt to tick throw and BOOM you punish hard and thus you've leveled up as a player and now enter the next level of the game.

Its not your character that levels up in street fighter, its you.

And as for your 'Henry and France' example? That'd would only apply in this game if someone was using turbo in a tournament and it was only discovered after he won a fight. But it was decided it should not be replayed.

Or someone was using hacks in an online tourney or macros...

In otherwords cheating.

KOing someone with chip damage is not cheating. The sooner you realise this the faster your game will improve and the more you'll enjoy it.

Dreddybajs · 15-05-2010 2:23am

jayteecork wrote: »

You dont' say?
I was still thinking of the Alpha games when a C meant you won being cheesey. An this guy would have gotten an Aplha C, no doubt about it.

What are you on about? Isn't C in alpha a chip win too?

edit: wtf the "official term" is not "cheap damage" lol, and complaining about it just makes you look like a scrub

Doctor DooM · 15-05-2010 2:25am

Dreddybajs wrote: »

What are you on about? Isn't C in alpha a chip win too?

edit: wtf the "official term" is not "cheap damage" lol, and complaining about it just makes you look like a scrub

The version of Alpha 3 I played on actually showed a little slice of cheese when you won with a chip victory.

Sisko · 15-05-2010 2:26am

Yeah C is a chip win, the Japanese just add the word 'cheap' trying to be amusing not realising they're encouraging what the Americans call a scrub mentality.

Sisko · 15-05-2010 2:26am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The version of Alpha 3 I played on actually showed a little slice of cheese when you won with a chip victory.

wtf I don't remember that? hahahaha.

Doctor DooM · 15-05-2010 2:27am

Sisko wrote: »

wtf I don't remember that? hahahaha.

Maybe my memory is betraying me but Im pretty sure it was alpha...

Sisko · 15-05-2010 2:30am

All I knew was the ps1 version , thats gas if thats true though. Those crazy japanese lol

jayteecork · 15-05-2010 3:15am

Yeah I remember playing Alpha in the Victoria Sporting Club, cork and the slice of cheese appearing. Think it was the one with that evil pesky sh|t Adon in it. The look of the guy freaks me out to the day, and I hate playing against him.

Also, I'm 90% sure you can get a "C" in SSFIV without finishing with chip damage. Just by using the same move. I spammed psycho crusher once back and forth(teaching the scrub, lol) and got it i think. Maybe but maybe he blocked the last one but I'm sure it was a clean hit.

And Sisko, I understand the article completely. As I said, I don't have the skill or the inclination to "rise to the top". So I'm not gonna bother. I just play in between breaks of playing poker. However I can get hooked and play like 40 bouts in a session if I'm "on tilt". (poker term). It's good to beat up someone sometimes after playing that game.

Dreddybajs · 15-05-2010 3:47am

jayteecork wrote: »

Also, I'm 90% sure you can get a "C" in SSFIV without finishing with chip damage. Just by using the same move. I spammed psycho crusher once back and forth(teaching the scrub, lol) and got it i think. Maybe but maybe he blocked the last one but I'm sure it was a clean hit.

nope you're wrong

D4RK ONION · 15-05-2010 3:48am

jayteecork wrote: »

Also, I'm 90% sure you can get a "C" in SSFIV without finishing with chip damage. Just by using the same move. I spammed psycho crusher once back and forth(teaching the scrub, lol) and got it i think. Maybe but maybe he blocked the last one but I'm sure it was a clean hit.

Why is it "teaching the scrub" when you do it and "cheap ass ****" when they do it? :pac:

Orim · 15-05-2010 3:59am

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Why is it "teaching the scrub" when you do it and "cheap ass ****" when they do it? :pac:

I think the teaching a scrub was him playing off what one of us said. He was saying it in a sarcastic manner.

jayteecork · 15-05-2010 4:08am

Orim wrote: »

I think the teaching a scrub was him playing off what one of us said. He was saying it in a sarcastic manner.

Exactly, hence the "lol". (lol)

D4RK ONION · 15-05-2010 4:10am

Duly noted. Thought the lol was at him (the dude you beat).

Ken B · 15-05-2010 12:00pm

In Alpha 2: You got a slice of cheese symbol for a chip victory.
You got a cherry symbol for a weak kick/punch victory.
You got a lasso symbol for a throw victory.

My brother and I used to actively attempt to get them in versus battles, but in one player mode, they counted against you(if you were attempting to get to Shin-Gouki etc.)...

Ps: according to Sirlin, I'm the biggest scrub out there, insofar as, I main a weak character merely because he's my favourite and I have outmoded concepts of honour etc...

Orim · 15-05-2010 12:13pm

Ken B wrote: »

Ps: according to Sirlin, I'm the biggest scrub out there, insofar as, I main a weak character merely because he's my favourite and I have outmoded concepts of honour etc...

Sirlin has no issues with someone using weak characters. I know he mentions japanese players who have taken supposedly low-tier and shown what can be done with. He is very resepectful to this.

A concept of honour only makes you scrub if you allow it to get in the way of your game and causes you do things like not throw for a third time in a row/match because that would be too many throws.

D4RK ONION · 17-05-2010 3:17pm

Was playing someone from the UK yesterday, Honda v.s. Gouken. I beat him pretty bad, and he sent me a message saying "you fucking lettuce!". I laughed and replied "good game to you too."

So we're back to the character select screen, I decide I'll pick Honda again, finish him off, and he tries to counter pick with sagat. I end up finishing him with the EX. HHS > c.lp H.HHS >c.lp H.HHS combo, and he sent me a message afterwards calling me a turbo using cheater.

I told him to check the replays, and that I piano, and 5 minutes later I get a message back

ok man cool, i just asked, i wasnt takin the the piss, the dirty lettuce was a joke mr onion

then another one

sorry bud ive had a lot to drink and didnt mean any offence

Best hate mail I've ever gotten

bush · 17-05-2010 4:07pm

I got accused of using turbo the other day too. He said he blacklisted me, lol. I told him to check the replay too but I never heard from him again. I cant even get electricity out fast either.

Doctor DooM · 17-05-2010 4:22pm

Bush80 wrote: »

I got accused of using turbo the other day too. He said he blacklisted me, lol. I told him to check the replay too but I never heard from him again. I cant even get electricity out fast either.

I once got accused of turbo because I jabbed someone out of a ball after throwing a boom

Sagat06 · 17-05-2010 4:30pm

I never got accused of using turbo

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