ATTENTION: Blair Horan and the CPSU Leadership...

Silvio.Dante · 13-05-2010 3:04pm

murphaph wrote: »

And therein lies the problem

I'm no expert is the day to day goings on in the HSE.

However I'd be delighted if the Clerical staff were to join their colleagues in the Civil Service and form a united voice for some of the lowest paid workers in the Public Service...

murphaph · 13-05-2010 3:28pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'm no expert is the day to day goings on in the HSE.

However I'd be delighted if the Clerical staff were to join their colleagues in the Civil Service and form a united voice for some of the lowest paid workers in the Public Service...

...but the best paid clerical staff in Ireland, possibly in Europe

The_Conductor · 13-05-2010 3:39pm

murphaph wrote: »

...but the best paid clerical staff in Ireland, possibly in Europe

Lol- the ESRI survey of public sector salary scales already has the clerical grades represented by the CPSU as having the greatest differential with private sector equivalents (outside of the Health and Educational sectors- which make scary reading aside from anything else......)

Head The Wall · 13-05-2010 4:02pm

maxximus wrote: »

You are the gloater that is pandemic to this forum , and have showed through you seething above that how much of a begrudger you truly are, in that you like to see peoples wages cut.

You have also showed that you dont have any clue about contracts.

Anyway I'm sure I gladly earn a lot more than your good self and always will so cheerio , i have nothing more to say to you.

I will gladly converse with anyone who has an interest and a knowledge of what they are talking about.

Have a read of this and you will see how your contract can be changed through legislation. It has happened in the last few budgets and it will happen again. Changes to your contract of employment

We all know the truth about people that brag about the size of their package. :rolleyes:

Silvio.Dante · 13-05-2010 4:17pm

murphaph wrote: »

...but the best paid clerical staff in Ireland, possibly in Europe

In one of the most expensive countries to live in dude...

Head The Wall · 13-05-2010 4:20pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

In one of the most expensive countries to live in dude...

If the comparable role in the private sector gets 32% less and those people can survive and live within their means then that argument holds no weight.

changes · 13-05-2010 4:24pm

Head The Wall wrote: »

If the comparable role in the private sector gets 32% less and those people can survive and live within their means then that argument holds no weight.

I think it would be better to compare wages with other EU Public Services in countries like Sweden, Germany or France etc rather than someone getting paid peanuts in a factory office.

murphaph · 13-05-2010 4:29pm

changes wrote: »

I think it would be better to compare wages with other EU Public Services in countries like Sweden, Germany or France etc rather than someone getting paid peanuts in a factory office.

Lol! unreal, this worker getting paid peanuts is paying the taxes that pay your wages. What a bloody awful attitude!

Scarab80 · 13-05-2010 4:32pm

changes wrote: »

I think it would be better to compare wages with other EU Public Services in countries like Sweden, Germany or France etc rather than someone getting paid peanuts in a factory office.

But what about all the bankers and developers whose big wages are apparently bleeding the country dry, their wages are included in the private sector figure.

Head The Wall · 13-05-2010 5:04pm

changes wrote: »

I think it would be better to compare wages with other EU Public Services in countries like Sweden, Germany or France etc rather than someone getting paid peanuts in a factory office.

You're avoiding the situation, if others can survive on it then so can the PS.

Ye don't want to be compared to Comparable staff in Ireland because they don't get paid enough in yere eyes.

Ye want to get compared to other Eu countries where the cost of living is less than here. What if the PS in other EU countries get paid the same rates as Private sector clerical workers here.

What will ye do then

Taxipete29 · 13-05-2010 5:04pm

I have to say I am sick and tired of this same ole argument. This agreement should of been like manna from heaven for PS workers. Nobody was gonna lose their job, no pay cuts unless we fall even further down the hole at which point we are all finished anyway.

If the CPSU ignore the democratic wishes of the rest of the PS and pull out of ICTU they are finished. They will be a laughing stock and you will have given the Govt carte blanche to impose whatever swathing cuts they wish as you will have no power to stop them. Striking does not work the way it did years ago.

I had great sympathy for PS workers all through their campaign. I know they didnt cause this mess and so does everyone else. Other people however dont get to dictate to bankrupt employers what terms they are going to work under.

If you think that this kind of bull is what the Union movement is or should be about you have got it all wrong. Unions are about a fair deal for ALL workers, not just those in the PS. Time to cop on boys and girls. The party is over and you still have jobs and salaries which are well above average in the current climate. Socialism or social justice is not about bankrupting the country to maintain the lifestyle of people who made poor financial decisions.

I will always support a workers right to organise in a Union and I think they really do help people, but these kind of temper tantrums do nothing but damage the legacy of the Trade Union movement.

The_Conductor · 13-05-2010 5:09pm

Scarab80 wrote: »

But what about all the bankers and developers whose big wages are apparently bleeding the country dry, their wages are included in the private sector figure.

Only when compared to similar roles......
A clerical officer in Axa, a bank or where-ever would be the comparitor used for a CO in the civil service. By that measure the CO grade in the civil service is paid a higher percentage more than their private sector equivalent, than any other civil service grade.

Of related note- its the CPSU who were fighting to have EO entitlements increased (as in their minds there was insufficient differential between this grade and the SO promotion grade- potentially a SO could in theory be promoted to EO- and have 3 days less annual leave than their previous grade- in practice they would be allowed to keep their previous leave entitlements).

The CPSU have been spectacularly successful in representing the interests of their members- to the extent that they're annoyed that its not sufficiently worth their members while to go for promotion........

changes · 13-05-2010 5:45pm

Head The Wall wrote: »

If the comparable role in the private sector gets 32% less and those people can survive and live within their means then that argument holds no weight.

So a comparable roll in the private sector starts on 15K a year? I doubt it.

Some companies may be able to get away with paying someone 15K (peanuts imo). We don't always have to go to the lowest common denominator.

OMD · 13-05-2010 5:55pm

changes wrote: »

So a comparable roll in the private sector starts on 15K a year? I doubt it.

Some companies may be able to get away with paying someone 15K (peanuts imo). We don't always have to go to the lowest common denominator.

No. A clerical officer working in civil service starts at €23,000 and rises to €38,000 with long service payments. The average pay of a clerical officer assuming he never gets promoted and does not do overtime is €35,000. Don't believe the bull you hear about low paid.

Head The Wall · 13-05-2010 5:56pm

changes wrote: »

So a comparable roll in the private sector starts on 15K a year? I doubt it.

Some companies may be able to get away with paying someone 15K (peanuts imo). We don't always have to go to the lowest common denominator.

Just because you don't like the sound of it doesn't mean it's not true. Check out the ESRI report, no offence meant but in your eyes you are not overpaid.

Look up what you would get paid in the private sector for your experience and qualifications and that's what you are worth.

In my opinion it's far from peanuts we are paying but still seem to get lots of monkeys

Welease · 13-05-2010 6:02pm

changes wrote: »

So a comparable roll in the private sector starts on 15K a year? I doubt it.

There has been numerous reports listed over the months here that show the exact premium pay in the PS, and yet you still refuse to believe it..

What would actually make you believe it? It seem pointless linking the exact same data again and again.

changes · 13-05-2010 6:04pm

murphaph wrote: »

Lol! unreal, this worker getting paid peanuts is paying the taxes that pay your wages. What a bloody awful attitude!

Anyone earning 32% less than me is prob not paying much tax.

There are some companies that have driven their employees wages down to the ground and are paying them peanuts.

If you want to see an awful attitude take a look back at some of the comments made against public servants on here over the last year. Everything from scum to wasters, pen pushers, tea drinkers, leeches etc.

changes · 13-05-2010 6:06pm

Head The Wall wrote: »

Look up what you would get paid in the private sector for your experience and qualifications and that's what you are worth.

You assume I have no qualifications?

OMD it rises to 35,000 with LSI not 38,000

Head The Wall · 13-05-2010 6:10pm

changes wrote: »

You assume I have no qualifications?

OMD it rises to 35,000 with LSI not 38,000

No, you assume that I assumed. Read the sentence again

Someone earning less than you may not be paying much income tax but they are paying the famous indirect taxes your union harps on about when PS paycuts are mentioned

Welease · 13-05-2010 6:39pm

changes wrote: »

Anyone earning 32% less than me is prob not paying much tax.

There are some companies that have driven their employees wages down to the ground and are paying them peanuts.

It depends on what you call peanuts... Some people think 100K per year is peanuts..

Ireland is considered a high cost economy for companies to do business in.. a percentage of that is our comparatively high wages vs our competitors (hence why many companies have left our shores)...

There are various reports that demonstrate our PS is paid considerably more than the private sector (and remember our private sector is overpaid).

Yet you still don't consider to PS to be overpaid in Ireland?

Can you provide a single data point to illustrate your case?

changes · 13-05-2010 8:06pm

Welease wrote: »

Yet you still don't consider to PS to be overpaid in Ireland

I'm happy with my income, i don't think i'm low paid even after the paycut and pension levy.

If my wages were to be cut 32% then I truely would be as well of on the dole with rent allowance. Social welfare & benefits are too close to the min wage. That is a major problem for the government and this country. They have allowed this country get into such as state that some people believe 35K is low paid & i believe it can all be traced back to the property boom and the wage demands emanating from it.

Welease · 13-05-2010 8:13pm

changes wrote: »

I'm happy with my income, i don't think i'm low paid even after the paycut and pension levy.

If my wages were to be cut 32% then I truely would be as well of on the dole with rent allowance. Social welfare & benefits are too close to the min wage. That is a major problem for the government and this country. They have allowed this country get into such as state that some people believe 35K is low paid & i believe it can all be traced back to the property boom and the wage demands emanating from it.

I'm not surprised your happy with your income.. (assuming you are PS) you the one being overpaid

The rest I agree with :)The country needs a reboot...

ParkRunner · 13-05-2010 9:26pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I have to say I am sick and tired of this same ole argument. This agreement should of been like manna from heaven for PS workers. Nobody was gonna lose their job, no pay cuts unless we fall even further down the hole at which point we are all finished anyway.

If the CPSU ignore the democratic wishes of the rest of the PS and pull out of ICTU they are finished. They will be a laughing stock and you will have given the Govt carte blanche to impose whatever swathing cuts they wish as you will have no power to stop them. Striking does not work the way it did years ago.

The only option I personally see for the CPSU is to escalate their industrial action if croke park is ratified by the ICTU and if they do see a realistic alternative. Given the fact that passport staff were extremely close to being suspended during the work to rule, escalated industrial action will surely result in these suspensions being actually imposed forcing the entire CPSU to go all out.

The CPSU executive committee via Blair Horan have alread said that "In the event that the deal is rejected I expect it to be renegotiated" but in the event that the deal is accepted now it is anyone's guess. I presume the CPSU will have to ballot again for escalated industrial action?

Inquitus · 13-05-2010 10:18pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10113122.stm

Spain and Portugal face up to their realities with legislation and commitments, yet our PS still expects to get away with the vaguaries of cost savings through efficiencies, when everyone knows the only real cost savings to come from efficiencies is headcount reduction.

Cut their pay again, and cut their headcount, our PS is an inefficient shambles in the main, but one we can no longer afford to tolerate.

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 7:44am

Head The Wall wrote: »

If the comparable role in the private sector gets 32% less and those people can survive and live within their means then that argument holds no weight.

I get €400 a week to survive on. I am low paid. QED...

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 7:48am

OMD wrote: »

The average pay of a clerical officer assuming he never gets promoted and does not do overtime is €35,000.

When I see my €400 in my bank account today I'll take great comfort from this...:rolleyes:

dromdrom · 14-05-2010 7:54am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I get €400 a week to survive on. I am low paid. QED...

A lot better off than most, also the fact that you are guaranteed to receive wage increases and a gold plated pension even if you just sit and scratch your ass is a pretty sweet deal.

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 8:01am

dromdrom wrote: »

A lot better off than most, also the fact that you are guaranteed to receive wage increases and a gold plated pension even if you just sit and scratch your ass is a pretty sweet deal.

Silly comment not worthy of response...

dromdrom · 14-05-2010 8:05am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Silly comment not worthy of response...

What would you say if your private sector equivalent came on here whinging about how he only saw €320 in his bank account today?

zootroid · 14-05-2010 8:12am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I get €400 a week to survive on. I am low paid. QED...

But what is your pay in comparison to a similar job within the private sector? That is the main argument, the public sector earn more than the market pays in the private sector, and that because the country is broke, public sector wages should come into line with those of the private sector.

Also, I am assuming the 400 euro figure is one after tax, care to provide a gross annual amount? It would be easier to make a comparison with the private sector then.

changes · 14-05-2010 9:03am

dromdrom wrote: »

A gold plated pension.

A CO retiring today gets €6000 per year more than the basic state pension. Thats hardly a gold plated pension. Dromdrom are you just repeating slogans you read in the sunday indo

14-05-2010 9:15am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

When I see my €400 in my bank account today I'll take great comfort from this...:rolleyes:

And what skills and abilities do you apply to your job that you deserve more than this? I would assume that you've just started in the PS, seeing as I was earning 420 a week two summers ago in the PS.

dromdrom · 14-05-2010 9:16am

changes wrote: »

A CO retiring today gets €6000 per year more than the basic state pension. Thats hardly a gold plated pension. Dromdrom are you just repeating slogans you read in the sunday indo

Don't read the Indo, don't read the Workers Party Weekly either

14-05-2010 9:16am

changes wrote: »

A CO retiring today gets €6000 per year more than the basic state pension. Thats hardly a gold plated pension. Dromdrom are you just repeating slogans you read in the sunday indo

It's far more than you would get if you worked in Spar for 40 years. And you would have worked a lot harder for your money in Spar.

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:24am

dromdrom wrote: »

What would you say if your private sector equivalent came on here whinging about how he only saw €320 in his bank account today?

I'd say "God help you dude but why the f**k aren't you on the dole..."

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:25am

zootroid wrote: »

But what is your pay in comparison to a similar job within the private sector? That is the main argument, the public sector earn more than the market pays in the private sector, and that because the country is broke, public sector wages should come into line with those of the private sector.

Also, I am assuming the 400 euro figure is one after tax, care to provide a gross annual amount? It would be easier to make a comparison with the private sector then.

We've been through this at least twice already on this thread alone...! :eek:

All I care about is what I get at the end of each week. 400 quid in this economy is very low paid. QED...

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:26am

changes wrote: »

A CO retiring today gets €6000 per year more than the basic state pension. Thats hardly a gold plated pension. Dromdrom are you just repeating slogans you read in the sunday indo

Post of the week...

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:28am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

And what skills and abilities do you apply to your job that you deserve more than this? I would assume that you've just started in the PS, seeing as I was earning 420 a week two summers ago in the PS.

My pay's been slashed twice already. It matters not a whit what qualifications I have when all I've got is €400 to cope with... Low pay is low pay...

PeakOutput · 14-05-2010 9:29am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

All I care about is what I get at the end of each week. 400 quid in this economy is very low paid. QED...

no its not....QED

see how stupid that sounds? you dont just get to say anything you like and then put qed after it and BAM its true

you are getting 2 and a half times more than people on social welfare, the poorest people in our society.

400 quid is just under 20K after tax quite a reasonable starting point for a career

PeakOutput · 14-05-2010 9:31am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

My pay's been slashed twice already. It matters not a whit what qualifications I have when all I've got is €400 to cope with... Low pay is low pay...

if you cant live comfortably on 400 a week you need to seek financial advice

what i would give to have 400 a week

Sesshoumaru · 14-05-2010 9:34am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

My pay's been slashed twice already. It matters not a whit what qualifications I have when all I've got is €400 to cope with... Low pay is low pay...

My wife has a computer engineering degree and has been working in a telecommunications company for several years. She gets into her hand the same as you each week.

What qualifications do you have that makes you think you should earn the same as her or more?

*she doesn't have a guaranteed pension either*

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:42am

PeakOutput wrote: »

no its not....QED

see how stupid that sounds? you dont just get to say anything you like and then put qed after it and BAM its true

you are getting 2 and a half times more than people on social welfare, the poorest people in our society.

400 quid is just under 20K after tax quite a reasonable starting point for a career

I took a massive paycut to come into the civil service and if you're telling me that €400 a week nett for fulltime employment in this country then you're on another planet, with respect...

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:43am

PeakOutput wrote: »

if you cant live comfortably on 400 a week you need to seek financial advice

what i would give to have 400 a week

I need a miracle...

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 9:44am

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

My wife has a computer engineering degree and has been working in a telecommunications company for several years. She gets into her hand the same as you each week.

What qualifications do you have that makes you think you should earn the same as her or more?

*she doesn't have a guaranteed pension either*

I have notihng like the qualifications your wife has. It doesn't change the fact that low pay is low pay...

changes · 14-05-2010 9:45am

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

It's far more than you would get if you worked in Spar for 40 years. And you would have worked a lot harder for your money in Spar.

Poor comparison

dromdrom · 14-05-2010 9:49am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I have notihng like the qualifications your wife has. It doesn't change the fact that low pay is low pay...

No it doesn't , low pay relative to what? , do not you not see the fallacy of your argument, if the CPSU and their ilk win the country loses, if the country loses we lose our fiscal sovereignty, if we lose our fiscal sovereignty then we have an EU /IMF bailout like Greece, and what do you think is going to be the first thing in the firing line, do you think they will care one jot for you sense of entitlement, no they'll say here's a months wages don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, be very careful what you wish for

flutered · 14-05-2010 11:24am

dromdrom wrote: »

No it doesn't , low pay relative to what? , do not you not see the fallacy of your argument, if the CPSU and their ilk win the country loses, if the country loses we lose our fiscal sovereignty, if we lose our fiscal sovereignty then we have an EU /IMF bailout like Greece, and what do you think is going to be the first thing in the firing line, do you think they will care one jot for you sense of entitlement, no they'll say here's a months wages don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out, be very careful what you wish for

+ 1 always remember the truth is bitter, how do you think a disabled person is able to manage on 196 euro per week, they have to get someone to do most things for them, perhaps we do need a dose of imf medicine at least that will hit every one from to to bottom they are not selective on who they hit.

OMD · 14-05-2010 11:49am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

When I see my €400 in my bank account today I'll take great comfort from this...:rolleyes:

Irrespective of what your takehome pay is it does not change the facts. The average (lowest paid) clerical officer in civil service is €35,000. This is before tax. For a single person, after tax that works out at €509 a week. You should take enormous comfort from this. It means you can sit on your backside, do just the bare minimum not to get sacked and you can look forward to a 25% increase in your take home pay. You won't need any pay rises or any work improvements. Just sit back do as little as possible and wait for the money to roll in.

OMD · 14-05-2010 11:56am

changes wrote: »

A CO retiring today gets €6000 per year more than the basic state pension. Thats hardly a gold plated pension. Dromdrom are you just repeating slogans you read in the sunday indo

Not quite true. A CO who worked at this level for 40 years and never got promoted gets a pension of about €19,000 a year which is €7,000 above state pension. However more importantly he will also get a tax free lump sum of €57,000. The tax free lump sum is the gold plating

Silvio.Dante · 14-05-2010 12:07pm

dromdrom wrote: »

No it doesn't , low pay relative to what? ,

The average industrial wage for one, by a massive 10K per annum... Next..?

ATTENTION: Blair Horan and the CPSU Leadership...

Comments