this is what the transition looks like when a boy becomes a girl

rainbow kirby

No more arguing about grammar on thread please. Back on topic.

ddef

Sorry in advance of sounding ignorant, but how did they grow sexual characteristics of women (or visa versa women to men). Are they injected with either loads of oestrogen or testosterone or what? also (again i apologise) if a man goes from male to female....what happens below the belt?

Links234

ddef wrote: »

Sorry in advance of sounding ignorant, but how did they grow sexual characteristics of women (or visa versa women to men). Are they injected with either loads of oestrogen or testosterone or what?

Don't be sorry, and it doesn't sound ignorant, this is a very good question. What happens in hormone replacement therapy for a MtF is they are given an anti-androgen to block testosterone, then given estrogen either through pills, injections or transdermal patches, the method can vary. Then at a later stage they are often given progesterone which helps greatly with breast development. The effects we see in the pictures I've posted are the results of the hormones.

The obvious changes being that your body shape changes due to body fat redistribution and loss of muscle mass, and you will grow breasts. The changes that we don't see can be as interesting as the ones we do. Breasts and nipples become extremely sensitive, skin becomes softer, head hair becomes thicker while body hair slows in growth and much becomes vellus hair, so overall hair becomes more female. The oils that the skin produce changes, and your body odor would change too so you'd start to smell female. I've also read that the angle of your pelvis can change, due to fat distribution and tendon changes. It can have an effect on your mood, feelings and sense too.

Sounds amazing, doesn't it?

ddef wrote: »

also (again i apologise) if a man goes from male to female....what happens below the belt?

This is also a very good question, and it gets very interesting. I assume you're not talking about surgery, but the effects of hormones on the genitalia? You'll lose a lot of erectile tissue in the penis so it will get smaller, the testes will eventually stop producing sperm, reduce in size and you will get dry orgasms as you will eventually stop ejaculating. I've also heard from a lot of trans girls that they have had to start sitting down to pee because the urine flow becomes more of a 'spray' as I'm told.

What happens to how you feel down there is extremely interesting. There's a decrease in libido, but from accounts I've heard, most girls describe it as losing their male sex drive and it being replaced by a female sex drive. There's a huge difference in how orgasms feel as well, and that the hormones eventually give you female orgasms.

So, hope that helps.

Links234

By the way, I see this thread has a lot of views, it must be very interesting. I just wanted to say that if anyone else has any questions or is curious about this, really just go right ahead and ask.

Speak Now

links234 wrote: »

hormone replacement doesn't work as well if you've begun to age

starting your transition younger is always better but there's plenty of people who have transitioned in their late 20's and 30's or even late 30's and still made an incredible transformation so don't ever think that your past the mark just because you didn't do it in your teens like some luck people

hormone replacement can have incredible results and there are many beautiful women out there who were born boys

Links234 wrote: »

By the way, I see this thread has a lot of views, it must be very interesting. I just wanted to say that if anyone else has any questions or is curious about this, really just go right ahead and ask.

Looking at herself i should think

Links234

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Looking at herself i should think

She is very beautiful. Though I think the reason the thread has so many views is probably out of curiosity, rather than an appreciation for these remarkable girls. But, here's another incredibly beautiful girl who made an astonishing transition:

hplp

silly question though but when going through a sex change, do you have to take some sort of hormone question for the rest of your life or is it short term ( a number of years treatment)?

h

Links234

hplp wrote: »

silly question though but when going through a sex change, do you have to take some sort of hormone question for the rest of your life or is it short term ( a number of years treatment)?

h

this really isn't a silly question at all!

What happens is that you take estrogen and some form of testosterone blocker for some years, then when you get those nasty testes removed with genital reassignment surgery or a bilateral orchiectomy, you're taken off the testosterone blockers and moved to a lower dose of estrogen. you'll be on estrogen the rest of your life from that point but the main hormone replacement treatment that you'll be on during transition will only be for a few years.

I hope that clears things up and if you have any other questions to ask, please do! It's not silly at all.

Links234

Freiheit

Mentioned H.r.t. to a beautican today during beard removal and she asked me why I would want to put myself through it and potentially mess up my body.....that's what family will say too.....Mum knows I'm seeing the Endocrinologist but I'm not sure if she realises exactly what's involved. The consensus is though that in most cases it's well tolerated?. It is quite possible to be a healthy 'transwoman'?

Links234

Freiheit wrote: »

Mentioned H.r.t. to a beautican today during beard removal and she asked me why I would want to put myself through it and potentially mess up my body.....that's what family will say too.....Mum knows I'm seeing the Endocrinologist but I'm not sure if she realises exactly what's involved. The consensus is though that in most cases it's well tolerated?. It is quite possible to be a healthy 'transwoman'?

What does a beautician know about transgender HRT? Also, when she said you could potentially mess up your body, did she mean in terms of your health, or did she mean that becoming female is the messing up part? There's a tiny risk of blood clotting as far as I know, and depending on the anti androgens you're prescribed your potassium levels might spike (from spironolactone I think, though I'm pretty sure you won't get that), but this should all be monitored by your endocrinologist. The health risks are really minimum. There's an increased chance of cancer but no more than any genetic woman, and on the plus side you will have a reduced chance of heart disease. You can be just as healthy as any other girl out there, trans or not.

Freiheit

She meant h.r.t. in general, said a friend of her's is still suffering from I.V.F. 5 years on. Does she know much about Transgender hrt? undoubtbly not....

Links234

Freiheit wrote: »

She meant h.r.t. in general, said a friend of her's is still suffering from I.V.F. 5 years on. Does she know much about Transgender hrt? undoubtbly not....

Transgender HRT is very different to the kind of HRT that a menopausal woman might get (like they might give a woman a dose of testosterone to increase libido) so it's a totally different bag. She's probably talking about a completely different thing, and doesn't know the difference.

Links234

Links234

Handsome Bob

Always found this issue interesting. It's great to see that it actually works out for a lot of people. In some cases you honestly wouldn't know the difference and at worst, you might think the woman wasn't exactly blessed with good looks. But you'd never think that she was once a man.

I'd be curious to know how transsexuals feel about entering relationships. I assume that you eventually would want to tell your boyfriend the truth, when would you tell them though? Would you tell them before you came intimate? Does it cause a problem if the boyfriend wants to get intimate quickly but you are not ready yet to tell him the truth?

I find it all truly fascinating.

rainbow kirby

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'd be curious to know how transsexuals feel about entering relationships. I assume that you eventually would want to tell your boyfriend the truth, when would you tell them though? Would you tell them before you came intimate? Does it cause a problem if the boyfriend wants to get intimate quickly but you are not ready yet to tell him the truth?

*Or girlfriend, not all MtF transsexuals are straight.

Links234

Glad you find this fascinating LZ5by5.

I can't really answer how transsexuals feel about entering relationships because I'm pre-transition, and that makes things extra complicated, I doubt entering a relationship is possible for me because if someone found me attractive as I am now I'd be put off. Somewhere down the line after I started my transition I think I'd be pretty upfront about things to any girlfriend or possible girlfriend.

Freiheit

I had a close relationship with a great girl, while I was open and honest about everything,on a level it didn't function, because I felt obliged to try to be the man and while love was true, there was a conflict which contributed,(wasn't solely responsible) for it's demise......I won't be attempting to be the man again..........honesty is important to give any relationship firm foundations,now I consider myself attracted to people, not genders. Every man and woman is unique.

shoegirl

I like the Kate Bornstein concept of gender outlaws. She moves concepts to outside traditional ideas of gender binaries the male/female binary.

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j16/kate.asp

And here is great too, where she explains her ideas again:
http://katebornstein.typepad.com/

Freiheit

I do too, actually have one of her books,like her non-binary slant....nothing wrong with the binary so long as it's ok to be outside it too..........

Links234

shoegirl wrote: »

I like the Kate Bornstein concept of gender outlaws. She moves concepts to outside traditional ideas of gender binaries the male/female binary.

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j16/kate.asp

And here is great too, where she explains her ideas again:
http://katebornstein.typepad.com/

I like the concept, but I still see gender as a sense of self. Someone who just flips through gender roles doesn't speak to me as someone who finds a very real and painful discomfort in her own physical sex. Especially as she says she doesn't have a vagina, that it's still has a penis turned inside out, just an "inny instead of an outy".

Way to validate other transgender women.

Freiheit

I think discomfort can be experienced in different ways and the same feeling can be viewed differently by different minds.

Kate Bornstein isn't the only person I've encountered to view sexual reassignment surgery in this way, people for whom discomfort was very real.......

I'm not sure how uniform Transgender or any other people are,but they don't need to be, there isn't really any need for uniformity, maybe there is substantial differences between different Transgendered people. What does matter is respect for each person as a unique individual and their right to be what they want to be....there's no need for us all to be the same.

hare05

Links234 wrote: »

I like the concept, but I still see gender as a sense of self. Someone who just flips through gender roles doesn't speak to me as someone who finds a very real and painful discomfort in her own physical sex. Especially as she says she doesn't have a vagina, that it's still has a penis turned inside out, just an "inny instead of an outy".

Way to validate other transgender women.

Honestly, I almost agree on the inny bit. Sure, it can be convincing and near perfect to look at, but medical science has a long way to go before any of us get a uterus. It almost makes me want to go non-op just in the off chance of some miracle operation popping up in the next 10 years that could grow and then transplant the real thing.

Fooling myself, I know, but still.

Links234

hare05 wrote: »

Honestly, I almost agree on the inny bit. Sure, it can be convincing and near perfect to look at, but medical science has a long way to go before any of us get a uterus. It almost makes me want to go non-op just in the off chance of some miracle operation popping up in the next 10 years that could grow and then transplant the real thing.

Fooling myself, I know, but still.

I don't agree about the inny bit at all. If reproduction is all there is to it, then there's many women born without the capacity for it. Does this make them any less the women they are? I don't think so. Female isn't defined by reproductive capacity.

If your definition of female is reproduction in the female sense, then it IS medically possible for a male-to-female transsexual to reproduce as a female through a uterus transplant. If it cost wasn't an issue, I would be fully capable of getting pregnant and being a biological mother.

Links234

Freiheit wrote: »

I think discomfort can be experienced in different ways and the same feeling can be viewed differently by different minds.

Kate Bornstein isn't the only person I've encountered to view sexual reassignment surgery in this way, people for whom discomfort was very real.......

I'm not sure how uniform Transgender or any other people are,but they don't need to be, there isn't really any need for uniformity, maybe there is substantial differences between different Transgendered people. What does matter is respect for each person as a unique individual and their right to be what they want to be....there's no need for us all to be the same.

I'd agree with you that there's no need for uniformity, or any need for us all to be the same. In my experience, we are not anywhere near uniform. But the inside-out penis comment just strikes me as exactly the same kind of thing the critics of transgender identities would say - that a transsexual is not their target sex at all, and their genitalia is just a mutilated penis and not a vagina.

I mean, by my standards it's a vagina. Humans are pretty much made of the same kind of stuff, just in different configurations, so a change of the configuration is close enough for me. I agree with other things, but this is just too offensive to me personally. Maybe it's just me, but calling a transwoman's vagina an inside out penis is too close to hate speech for my liking.

Freiheit

That is a bit blunt possibly but my central belief is that it's no less legitimate even if that's what some view it to be (and I'm not saying rightly or wrongly).

What define's a vagina is largely subjective and individual, as are other defintions.

Annasopra

Freiheit wrote: »

What define's a vagina is largely subjective and individual, as are other defintions.

Is it that subjective? I'm genuinely asking here because I don't honestly know!

hare05

I didn't mean to cause offense. I don't define womanhood as being able to reproduce as a woman, but you've gotta admit, if you had the choice...

I'm not belittling transwomen. I simply think the current solution isn't exactly... elegant.

shay_562

Links234 wrote: »

I like the concept, but I still see gender as a sense of self. Someone who just flips through gender roles doesn't speak to me as someone who finds a very real and painful discomfort in her own physical sex. Especially as she says she doesn't have a vagina, that it's still has a penis turned inside out, just an "inny instead of an outy".

Way to validate other transgender women.

With respect, because I'll acknowledge I have very little experience or knowledge of transgender issues, isn't it just as offensive to dismiss her view because you don't think she's suffered enough pain and discomfort? Or to condemn her feelings and classification of her own genitalia as being 'hate speech' because it's at odds with your view of transgendered genitalia? The problem with transphobic people who dismiss it as 'an inside-out penis' is surely less about the ontology of vaginas and more about the way that they interact with transgendered people - dismissing their feelings, ignoring their opinions of their own bodies and seeking to impose societal norms on them that they don't fit, irrespective of the discomfort caused. Yet that seems to be what you're doing here.