SSFIV Tier List

Ramza

Here is your tier list, it's scarily accurate

:pac:



Threw it together in two minutes lol

Azza

I have like wise compiled a 3S tier list in the same amount of time.

Ramza

LMAO good twist on it there Azza :pac:

The Hound

Does everyone still think Sagat is Top of the tier list? I still think he's up there but not at the apex of it. Maybe Akuma, Balrog, Ryu and Dictator are top imo. Throw Sagat in the mix there as well.

Ramza

Nah I just threw it together for laughs Hound, Sagat would get the most comical response etc

bush

Blanka is top

UberPrinny_Baal

*Squints at colours*

Does Dee Jay have his own tier?

Burning Eclipse

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

*Squints at colours*

Does Dee Jay have his own tier?

Yup!! Ibuki and Guile too if you squint enough!!

GorySnake

So my old main is #1 (I thought Rufus just got damage nerfs and U2 sucks?) and my new main is in C. List is BS, Dee Jay is probably among the lower half of the new characters and yet he's above Dudley and Cody. And T.Hawk way up there, and Abel...Did they pull this list out of their asses?

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

So my old main is #1 (I thought Rufus just got damage nerfs and U2 sucks?) and my new main is in C. List is BS, Dee Jay is probably among the lower half of the new characters and yet he's above Dudley and Cody. And T.Hawk way up there, and Abel...Did they pull this list out of their asses?

It's based on US high level players, so I reckon people like Wong and Ross, as has already been mentioned, are throwing it off.

GorySnake

Its pointless having a tier list this early, there's been no big Super Tournaments so everyone is still inexperienced at the game.

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

Its pointless having a tier list this early, there's been no big Super Tournaments so everyone is still inexperienced at the game.

Thats the general consensus as far as I can see.

Slugs

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

Azza

For Bison I would rate the old matchs ups so far as.

Abel: 5:5 (not familar with this match up)
Akuma: 5:5 (think this could swing Bison's way over time)
Balrog: 5:5 (pretty much the same as SF 4)
Blanka: 6:4 (easier for Bison than SF 4, Ultra 2 punishes Blanka Ball on block)
Cammy: 5:5 (Balanced now that Cammy's damage as been nerfed and Bison has better cannon spike punisher)
Chun-Li: 5:5 (Bison can get in easier and damage output is less in favour of Chun)
C.Viper: 6:4 (Same as SF 4, Bisons pokes own her)
Dan: 6:4
Dhalsim: 6:4 (Sim's damage output is better but can't zone Bison well)
El Feurte: 6:4 (Slightly easier for Elf but sill in Bison's favour)
E.Honda: 4.5:5.5 (Each character has same problems in this match up, but Honda has better damage output and a more viable ultra)
Fei-Long: 5:5 (Same as SF 4)
Gen 6.5:3.5 (Gen looks worse than vanilla, worse wake up game and little to compensate)
Gouken: 5.5:4.5 (Bison's new stuff gives him more of an edge)
Guile: 3.5:6.5 (slightly easier for Bison, but still very hard to get through Guiles zoning game)
Ken: 5:5 (Ken has better footsies than Ryu and is less reliant on fireball zoning so is less effected by Bison's ultra 2, has other tools to use when he can't use fireballs)
Rufus: 6.5:3.5 (Can't get by Bison's zoning game and does less damage has less health)
Ryu: 5.5:4.5 (Ryu is boned once Bison gets ultra 2, Bisons footsies own Ryu, and Ryu does less damage now)
Sagat: 5:5 (Tricky to get in on him still but damage output no where near what it was, Bison's ultra 2 shuts down his fireball game allowing Bison to use his superior footsies)
Sakura: 6:4 (Slightly better for Sakura but still well in Bisons favour, can keep her out and run away from her)
Seth: 6:4 (Ultra 2 and EX.Pyscho give Bison the edge, Seth no longer has Ultra 1 trap)
Vega: 6:4 (Vega is slightly better but not enough to make it even)
Zangief 4:6 (Bison still can't zone him properly, can't effectively anti air him but its better for Bison, harder for Gief to build meter and Gief has a bit less health)

I'm not familar enough with the new characters to give a rating on them yet. I don't think any of them will beat Bison and if they do it will be very marginal.
I be pretty confident in saying Bison beats Makoto.

Orim

Slugs wrote: »

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

The tier list is based on how many matches each character would win out of ten, assuming that both players are high level and equal. Characters with a higher amount of good matches are placed higher.

They are a somewhat useful indicator of a characters general strength but a number of factors make them useless at the same time.

a) It boils down to opinion at the end of the day.
b) It doesn't take into account that a character can be high tier based on a number of good matches against bad characters but be very bad against the good characters.

As is always said pick who you want and work with them. You'll enjoy the game more and with work any character can win.

Azza

slugs wrote:

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

A tier list is decided by looking at the match up ratings of each character and then adding the number of wins each character scores against another. The higher the score the higher the character will place on tier list, the higher up the tier list the better the character is considered.

The match up ratings are usually the general consensus among communties on how balanced the match ups are. They normally take a while to evlove and become more accurate over time. Still tier lists always remain issues of debate.

So if 2 players are consider even in skill and one player picks Sagat and the other picks Vega, in a 10 match series, the Sagat player would be expected to win 6 times while the Vega player just 4. A match up is consider even if its rated at 5:5.

In SF4 Sagat had many 7:3 and 6:4 match ups with no matches that he is at at disadvantage and only a few where he was 5:5. That was why he was considered the best character in the game. His sucess in tournaments in Japan and the high number of Sagats in the Japanese arcade rankins back this up. Ryu and Akuma where generally considered around second and third again tournament results and arcade rankings back this up. It becomes less clear cut after that until you reach the very bottom of the list.

Doctor DooM

For Guile...

Abel: 5:5 Need to explore how the new ultras affect this. Seems even right now.
Akuma: 4:6 Hurricane stops air fireballs, however Guile still doesn't have an answer to Akuma's zoning game.
Balrog: 4:6 Doesn't seem to be any different to 4 yet.
Blanka: 3:7 Slide = no boom. Still Guile's worst match up imo.
Cammy: 7:3 Quicker booms, less damage from Cammy, still no overhead, I suspect hurricane will have punish applications.
Chun-Li: 5:5 WITH ultra 1 for Chun. Don't know why Chun players are picking ultra 2 in this match, Guile can zone all day long. Having alot of long stalemate matches.
C.Viper: 5:5 Down and back to ex boom beats alot of Vipers stuff. She can pound the ground all she likes, Guile can crouch and block all day long. Owns Guile up close. Need more experience though.
Dan: 6:4 Not much change.
Dhalsim: 3:7 Sim had the advantage here anyway before the damage boost. a good zoning game is a total uphill struggle for Guile, and Shangrila means you have to be careful after a teleport, which guile never had to before.
El Feurte: 6:4 Up and back still beats Fuerte.
E.Honda: 8:2 Guile's best game. Increased boom speed is a total nightmare for Honda.
Fei-Long No experience.
Gen 5:5 Seems 50/50 so far. Not much experience yet.
Gouken: 5:5 Goukens old fireball advantage less important with Hurricane/ new boom speed.
Bison 6:4 Bison's U2 not the nightmare it is for other characters, but still in Guile's favour.
Ken: 5:5 Not much experience but a tough zoning game seems to beat him out. In close Ken kills though.
Rufus: 7:3 Need more experience but flash beating dive kick changes this in Guile's favour. Also, U2 is slower than boom recovery at more than point blank range.
Ryu 5:5 Even. Ryu's live in fear of new backfist and bazooka hurricane. Tatsu is still a huge pain for Guile though.
Sagat: 4:6 Still in Sagat's favour, but now you can make a mistake or 2 with the new damage nerfs.
Sakura: 5:5 Anecdotally, Won some lose some.
Seth: 6:4 Seth gotta be careful with his jumps when Hurricane is charged.
Vega: 6:4 Guile's still in control I feel.
Zangief 4:6 U2 for Gief grounds Guile, reducing alot of his zoning options.

New guys... need more practice with them all.

Deejay 7:3 Pretty much Deejay is old Guile. Can't keep up with the booms.
T Hawk 7:3 Just can't get in on Guile's zoning.
Adon 6:4 FK seems to stop Jaguar anything well timed.
Cody 5:5 Seems to be ok if guile can keep him out.
Guy 4:6 Only character who can maintain air superiority on Guile. Booms are good to stop him though.
Ibuki 6:4 Down and back stops neck breaker and she doesn't have an answer to boom really.
Makoto 7:3 Can't do anything really.
Dudley 5:5 If Guile can maintain the distance he wins. Dudley can pretty much dizzy and do 60% damage with one in though.
Juri 4:6 Pretty good at punishing boom, for once
Hakan 7:3 Seriously?


[/QUOTE]

Owwmykneecap

Slugs wrote: »

Can someone explain the point of tiers to me? o.O I just don't get it. Are they not based on popularity rather than mastery required? How exactly does that give an anyway fair representation?

Sorry but it just ****ing baffles me o.O...

First off, and remember this always, they are opinion, they are subjective and often, they are varying levels of bull ****. especially early on in a games life.

They are derived from the record of "top" players fighting other "top" players.
The point is to give an "all other things being equal" impression of which character is the best, or better in any given situation.
The numbers represent how often any character should win against another if 10 matches are played, with both players being experts.

Slugs

Thanks for the explanation guys. Very helpful.

But that still leaves me with a problem. They're flawed... I mean realistically, as far as I can discern anyway, and I'm a newbie, so I am more then likely wrong, but aren't the top tier at that level due to popularity as a character rather than actual skill and mastery. I mean I know Sagat was meant to destroy, but I've seen decent Sagat players get mangled against some of the lower tier characters. What I'm basically trying to say is in a group of 100, you're more likely to come across players who stick with the top tiers because they've been told they're the best characters, rather than mastering a low tier... I can't even describe what I'm trying to say... Hopefully someone can translate, or I'll think about it and come back :P

Doctor DooM

Slugs wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation guys. Very helpful.

But that still leaves me with a problem. They're flawed... I mean realistically, as far as I can discern anyway, and I'm a newbie, so I am more then likely wrong, but aren't the top tier at that level due to popularity as a character rather than actual skill and mastery. I mean I know Sagat was meant to destroy, but I've seen decent Sagat players get mangled against some of the lower tier characters. What I'm basically trying to say is in a group of 100, you're more likely to come across players who stick with the top tiers because they've been told they're the best characters, rather than mastering a low tier... I can't even describe what I'm trying to say... Hopefully someone can translate, or I'll think about it and come back :P

Yes... but we all know this

Tier lists must always be taken with a pinch of salt. They're a kind of reference point, nothing more.

Slugs

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Yes... but we all know this

Tier lists must always be taken with a pinch of salt. They're a kind of reference point, nothing more.

I gathered but I still don't see the point in them, even as references :S Ah well I'll live

Sisko

Ehhhh yes they are flawed.

Again its basically saying if you had two players with a totally equal level of skill, fight each other with different characters - thus its totally dependent on the character ... if character A beats character B more times out of 10 then A is considered better, if only slightly, depending on the wins.

But your never gonna have two players totally equal. Both playing perfectly and flawless and making no mistakes.


So never take tiers too seriously. Obviously it can help in understanding match ups.

Like if you main character Z and its known that characters X totally destroys Z , it'd be listed as maybe a 9 - 1 in X's favor on the tier list. Its good for you to check the list and be aware theres such a bad match up for you.


But SSFIV is pretty nicely balanced. As it would seem so far anyway.

Doctor DooM

Slugs wrote: »

I gathered but I still don't see the point in them, even as references :S Ah well I'll live

TBH I mainly use them as a topic of conversation, for example:

"Tier list says this is a 7:3 match... I don't think so, because I always see x beating y. I know a is supposed to beat b, but I don't think it adds up".

Slugs

Well I found it hilarious.

I main on Sakura, and I'm developing an Abel (though my reaction time with him is a joke, needs more work) and I'm determined to prove that tier system wrong (thought I've yet to win a 3 rounder, so it's going to take a LOT of work) Ganbateimasu!!!!! :P

UberPrinny_Baal

The biggest hole to poke in Tiers is that they're working on the assumption of two players of equal skill/time/reaction etc. Within the confines of this assumption they're fine.

In reality no two exactly equal players exist.

unky chop chop

Perfect explanation Sisko. I realy dont pay much notice to them unless you see a serious gap between the two numbers.. i mean to take 5-4 seriously and thinks its a disadvantage means in reality your a street fighting robot with ultimate execution who makes zero mistakes...and so is your android opponent.

Ken B

I hate tier lists...they give me a huge inferiority complex and a massive chip on my shoulder.....they also sow the seed of doubt into my mind during matches that I feel comfortable with, but the tier list says otherwise.....

Doctor DooM

Slugs wrote: »

Well I found it hilarious.

I main on Sakura, and I'm developing an Abel (though my reaction time with him is a joke, needs more work) and I'm determined to prove that tier system wrong (thought I've yet to win a 3 rounder, so it's going to take a LOT of work) Ganbateimasu!!!!! :P

Who are you telling. I mained Guile in SF4, and he's 3rd worst in the last tier list.

unky chop chop

Paranoia will destroy ya. seriously though Case in point Ken.. Vega.The amount of "bad" matchups he has and you still manage to mangle most of your opponents. What about Diagio v luffy ... biggest robot player in the world taken down by a Rose

chopperbyrne

Slugs wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation guys. Very helpful.

But that still leaves me with a problem. They're flawed... I mean realistically, as far as I can discern anyway, and I'm a newbie, so I am more then likely wrong, but aren't the top tier at that level due to popularity as a character rather than actual skill and mastery. I mean I know Sagat was meant to destroy, but I've seen decent Sagat players get mangled against some of the lower tier characters. What I'm basically trying to say is in a group of 100, you're more likely to come across players who stick with the top tiers because they've been told they're the best characters, rather than mastering a low tier... I can't even describe what I'm trying to say... Hopefully someone can translate, or I'll think about it and come back :P

Sagat in IV has mostly 6:4 and 7:3 advantages. So what you've seen are one of the four or three matches that the opponent will win.

Only a 10:0 match should ever be completely one sided between two equally skilled players.