why do people spend so much

thebullkf

andreac wrote: »

Have a read of this:
http://www.topdog.ie/content.php?151-Raw-BARF-Diet-FAQ

and this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694639

Will help clear up your confusion.

ok interesting stuff....

seems theres opposition though.....


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FKA/is_6_67/ai_n13788104/

lrushe

niallo27 wrote: »

Dont worry he will get the best of everything off me, i was looking at this
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/hills_science_plan/puppy_junior/128147

its got some good reviews

Of course its always up to the individual dogs but I didn't have good results with this brand, the best I've come across and used is James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin

thebullkf

lrushe wrote: »

Once you cook a bone you take out all the moisture in it leading it to splinter when the dog chews it up potentially causing stomach and intestine damage, uncooked bones don't tend to do this as the moisture in them keep them softer , less likely to splinter and more digestable.

from same article.....


"A veterinary neurologist told me the other day that they have seen au increase in seizure disorders in dogs and cats caused by toxoplasmosis, especially in areas where raw meat diets are trendy."
When I asked Geoff Stein, DVM, he wrote: "The problem with these 'natural' diets is the misguided assumption that 'natural' is better. It's 'natural' for wolves to die of salmonella once in awhile." He added that wolves would probably be healthier if they ate cooked meat.
Many raw food proponents theorize that freezing meat will kill bacteria. Not so. Laboratories preserve bacteria and viruses by freezing them. .Cooking meat is the best way to eliminate the potential for illness

thebullkf

ISDW wrote: »

Raw chicken wings are very good for dogs, they help to clear out the anal glands.

Cooked chicken bones no, raw ones, great.

http://dog-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/troubleshooting_the_barf_diet




Few studies have been done to support the numerous beneficial claims of a raw diet. Raw feeders feel that the burden of proof rests on pet food manufacturers and veterinarians to show that commercial diets are superior and safer than raw diets.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_feeding



http://www.helium.com/items/665752-an-overview-of-the-barf-diet-for-dogs




think i'll stick with whats tried and trusted.

thebullkf

niallo27 wrote: »

Dont worry he will get the best of everything off me, i was looking at this
http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/hills_science_plan/puppy_junior/128147

its got some good reviews

great stuff. using it years.

consistantly good food.;)


where abouts do you live?

try and buy it in person if you can

{i find that if you buy anything online foodwise the BB date is fast approaching...}


Vets are same price as that website....get some samples off the vet also

lrushe

thebullkf wrote: »

from same article.....


"A veterinary neurologist told me the other day that they have seen au increase in seizure disorders in dogs and cats caused by toxoplasmosis, especially in areas where raw meat diets are trendy."
When I asked Geoff Stein, DVM, he wrote: "The problem with these 'natural' diets is the misguided assumption that 'natural' is better. It's 'natural' for wolves to die of salmonella once in awhile." He added that wolves would probably be healthier if they ate cooked meat.
Many raw food proponents theorize that freezing meat will kill bacteria. Not so. Laboratories preserve bacteria and viruses by freezing them. .Cooking meat is the best way to eliminate the potential for illness

The risk of stomach rupture or intestinal impact is far greater and more common than the minisucle danger of infection. Alot of times as a dog owner you have to weigh up the pro's and con's of a situation and decide what's best for your dog and to me giving a dog a cooked bone is not a risk I would take.

thebullkf

lrushe wrote: »

The risk of stomach rupture or intestinal impact is far greater and more common than the minisucle danger of infection. Alot of times as a dog owner you have to weigh up the pro's and con's of a situation and decide what's best for your dog and to me giving a dog a cooked bone is not a risk I would take.

never mentioned bones...



cooked meat

each to their own.....i would never give my dog,a bone from a bird...have given him cooked lamb bone before...no worries...

as i said everyone's different.

i wouldn't give my dog grapes,raisins either.....

once our dogs stay healthy thats the main thing;);)

niallo27

thebullkf wrote: »

great stuff. using it years.

consistantly good food.;)


where abouts do you live?

try and buy it in person if you can

{i find that if you buy anything online foodwise the BB date is fast approaching...}


Vets are same price as that website....get some samples off the vet also

Im in clare, but work in limerick, are the petmania and maxi zoo good for getting food, thanks for all the help guys, just want the best for the little guy

andreac

thebullkf wrote: »

never mentioned bones...



cooked meat

each to their own.....i would never give my dog,a bone from a bird...have given him cooked lamb bone before...no worries...

These are actually very dangerous for dogs, ive seen dogs at the vets with lamb bones, cooked, lodged in a dogs mouth etc.

If you want to give a dog a bone give him a raw one, but stay away from any type of cooked ones.

lrushe

thebullkf wrote: »

never mentioned bones...

You quoted me commenting on raw bones hence me continuing on that line of debate

thebullkf

lrushe wrote: »

You quoted me commenting on raw bones hence me continuing on that line of debate

sorry...my bad:)

thebullkf

andreac wrote: »

These are actually very dangerous for dogs, ive seen dogs at the vets with lamb bones, cooked, lodged in a dogs mouth etc.

If you want to give a dog a bone give him a raw one, but stay away from any type of cooked ones.

^^---never heard that in me life...

i gave him the bone so's he could mill the gristle,fat and meat (what was left :rolleyes:)
...he actually lost interest in the bone after a while..
le

thebullkf

niallo27 wrote: »

Im in clare, but work in limerick, are the petmania and maxi zoo good for getting food, thanks for all the help guys, just want the best for the little guy

petmania i like cos i think its a great shop...good for a spin with your pet and family.....can't seem to bring my dog into any shops these days:mad::mad:

andreac

thebullkf wrote: »

^^---never heard that in me life...

i gave him the bone so's he could mill the gristle,fat and meat (what was left :rolleyes:)
...he actually lost interest in the bone after a while..
le

It happened a dog i know, it lodged in the roof of the dogs mouth, they had to bring it to the the vets to get it taken out.

thebullkf

andreac wrote: »

It happened a dog i know, it lodged in the roof of the dogs mouth, they had to bring it to the the vets to get it taken out.

i'd say he was feelin ruff after it:D.....


***tumbleweed***

andreac

Ha ha, ah she was ok in the end, nothing to serious apart from a nice vet bill.

Whispered

andreac wrote: »

It happened a dog i know, it lodged in the roof of the dogs mouth, they had to bring it to the the vets to get it taken out.

It happened to my mams dog recently too although it wasn't serious. A cooked chicken bone. He's usually a "careful" (read; fussy) eater, and eats the skin and meat and leaves the bone itself. But my boy ran in while he was eating and he tried to gobble it down. It got stuck between each line of teeth if you know what I mean. Wasn't too bad, I pulled it out and he's fine now. But it happened so easily.

As far as I know straight beef bones, raw, are the safest to give. Cooked can splinter and knuckles with a lot of grizzle can cause impacted bowel. But it's a choice for each owner to do what they think best for thier dog. I suppose like allowing your child the odd junk food treat. So long as you are aware of the potential risks of what you are feeding, then it's up to you to make a decision.

Graces7

We investigated "kibble"... most brands contain.... cat and or dog.

So we never use it. Ask google.

ppink

One of my dogs had a RAW bone lodged in the roof of its mouth.

I managed to get it out but it cause him a lot of distress when it happened.
I have not given them any bones since.

star-pants

On the topic of spending money on dogs - we spend what we can afford combined with what they need. We had to go through different foods before to find the right one that suited them, it's not the cheapest but there's dearer out there. But it's best for the dogs so you just deal with it.
If they need the vet, money is not an issue, I'll worry about that later, their welfare is more important.

I think when you're in charge of a life (or more) you do your best with what you have available and sometimes more, because you care about them and they can hardly do some things themselves.

Regarding bones, I just have a fear because when I was younger, my friend & I were in her house when her friend called crying and we'd to run around to the house to find a westie with a blood covered mouth & paws desperately trying to get a lodged bone out of the roof of it's mouth. This was a raw bone, and not chicken.
The poor thing was in distress, we had to try and hold him and get the bone out ourselves, horrible!! He'd cut up all the roof of his mouth with the bone & with trying to get it out.
My dad very very rarely gives the girls bones but he has to watch them when they have one, so they're supervised godforbid anything happen. That's just my fear with bones, even though I know lots of dogs eat bones no problem.

morganafay

Graces7 wrote: »

We investigated "kibble"... most brands contain.... cat and or dog.

So we never use it. Ask google.

Do you have any proof of that? I don't trust the internet! If all the ingredients are on it, and if it says chicken/beef/lamb or whatever, instead of just saying meat, then wouldn't it have to be chicken/beef/lamb or whatever it says on the bag. I'd believe it with cheap dog good, but not with any of the expensive ones.

morganafay

thebullkf wrote: »

^^---never heard that in me life...

We had a dog in college for grooming and noticed something in its mouth, it had a piece of bone stuck in the roof of its mouth and I'd say it was there for a while. The dog didn't seem bothered, but it was really stuck in there hard. The teacher pulled it out but she was thinking she'd have to call a vet. It was ok though.

I do give my dogs bones just because they love them so much and it seems a waste to throw them away . . . but once I have my own place I won't have any bones around anyway, since I don't eat meat, so then I won't.

doggiewalker00

you wouldnt know what they put in cheap dog food,would you eat left over scraps and expect to feel good.it reallly is worth paying more for a good quality dry food,they will feel and look alot helthier.

its really not that expensive,a smalll breed like a cav costs about the same as an orange to feed every day.

sambuka41

I feed my pup RC cause the pedigree dry was killing her. This way,way,way better for her. And its actually working out MUCH cheaper,she was eating a lot more of the pedigree than she is the RC.

Also on the breed specific stuff, I wish they were around when i had my Westie,he had the most sensitive stomach (as Westie's tend to have!!). Only thing available at the time was lamb and rice eukanuba,which didnt work either. Ended up feeding him chicken/turkey and rice for rest of his life.

Edit: Although i think the RC is worth the money and is better than pedigree my cat refuses to eat anything more expensive than KiteKat or Felix!!!!

denhaagenite

Have the healthiest, happiest most beautiful whippet in the whole world and she is fed on Pedigree chum nuts. Shiny coat, solid stools lovely behaviour etc etc. She gets Kong treats and sometimes I'll cook an extra chicken breast or keep leftover scraps of meat for her- bizarrely enough she goes mad for an olive or two aswell!! She NEVER gets wet food, unless we're in another pet owner's house and she nicks it from another bowl . I thought about changing the food but only because I felt like I wasn't a good enough owner unless I was paying through the nose for it.

When I did puppy walking for Irish Guide Dogs they used Pedigree- surely they wouldn't want to harm their animals?

I do splash out on Tigi shampoo for her ("Bed Head" for people= "Pet Head" for dogs !!) so I think I'm as crazy as they come about my baby.

Go with your gut feeling on it- I started a thread here once on the same topic because I honestly felt guilty, if you love your dog and genuinely do what's best for it then don't listen to people who say you have to feed it Orijen/ Hills/ whatever else makes them feel superior

Outkast_IRE

denhaagenite wrote: »

Have the healthiest, happiest most beautiful whippet in the whole world and she is fed on Pedigree chum nuts. Shiny coat, solid stools lovely behaviour etc etc. She gets Kong treats and sometimes I'll cook an extra chicken breast or keep leftover scraps of meat for her- bizarrely enough she goes mad for an olive or two aswell!! She NEVER gets wet food, unless we're in another pet owner's house and she nicks it from another bowl . I thought about changing the food but only because I felt like I wasn't a good enough owner unless I was paying through the nose for it.

When I did puppy walking for Irish Guide Dogs they used Pedigree- surely they wouldn't want to harm their animals?

I do splash out on Tigi shampoo for her ("Bed Head" for people= "Pet Head" for dogs !!) so I think I'm as crazy as they come about my baby.

Go with your gut feeling on it- I started a thread here once on the same topic because I honestly felt guilty, if you love your dog and genuinely do what's best for it then don't listen to people who say you have to feed it Orijen/ Hills/ whatever else makes them feel superior

Most people wont tell ya to feed it orjen/ hills or whatever , nearly everyone on this thread including me that feeds orjen or a more expensive food only does that because other brands have made the dog unwell .........

Most of us would love it if the dog was fine with a cheaper bag of food but for most of us that have written on here we only feed the expensive stuff because we have tried the other brands with no success .

I had a cocker spaniel for 16 years and it was brilliant on pedigree dry food , loved it and had no health problems until he hit the 15+ age.

denhaagenite

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I had a cocker spaniel for 16 years and it was brilliant on pedigree dry food , loved it and had no health problems until he hit the 15+ age.

I adore spaniels but I know the hair would drive me mad . That is really great to hear- unfortunately people will read that because it had health problems before it died it MUST be down to the feeding. Nothing to do with the fact that it was at the ripe old age of 15 when it became ill.

crotalus667 wrote: »

the only tv advert i have seen for dog food that is sold over here is ped chum which i would not touch with a barge pole , i based by choice on recamendations from research and profresionals + people i know that have used it

Bad press for cheap(ish) food based on no impartial proof.

morganafay wrote: »

Do you have any proof of that? I don't trust the internet! If all the ingredients are on it, and if it says chicken/beef/lamb or whatever, instead of just saying meat, then wouldn't it have to be chicken/beef/lamb or whatever it says on the bag. I'd believe it with cheap dog good, but not with any of the expensive ones.

A cheaper food is more likely to contain questionable ingredients than an expensive food basedon what exactly?? I wonder do these people have pet insurance or exercise their animals properly?

Friend from school is a vet and I was gushing like mad about our one when I met her a couple of weeks ago and she was of the opinion that people pay far too much attention to the price of food and not nearly enough to other aspects of the dogs life/ health

Outkast_IRE

denhaagenite wrote: »

I adore spaniels but I know the hair would drive me mad . That is really great to hear- unfortunately people will read that because it had health problems before it died it MUST be down to the feeding. Nothing to do with the fact that it was at the ripe old age of 15 when it became ill.




Bad press for cheap(ish) food based on no impartial proof.



A cheaper food is more likely to contain questionable ingredients than an expensive food basedon what exactly?? I wonder do these people have pet insurance or exercise their animals properly?

Friend from school is a vet and I was gushing like mad about our one when I met her a couple of weeks ago and she was of the opinion that people pay far too much attention to the price of food and not nearly enough to other aspects of the dogs life/ health

There are a few websites that analyse the food , i dont think pedigree chum is on here but orjen is and there a many more , http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
the main gripe which is usually true about cheaper products is the use of Grains as a filler , grains have no place in a dogs diet naturally so these are what upset a lot of dogs , also the quality of meats used is also looked at ,
Im not saying this website is 100% right but it does bring up a few good issues .

But it raises a good issue some foods that you would expect to be high quality because of a higher price are no better than the cheapest brands .

ppink

doggiewalker00 wrote: »

you wouldnt know what they put in cheap dog food,would you eat left over scraps and expect to feel good.it reallly is worth paying more for a good quality dry food,they will feel and look alot helthier.

its really not that expensive,a smalll breed like a cav costs about the same as an orange to feed every day.

this si my point...how do any of us know what goes into any of the foods??

the average Joe cannot tell what is in Tescos brand (i assume they have one) or in RC - they assume because RC or whatever is so much more expensive it must be better.

All our dogs growing up were brought up on scraps and all were very healthy.....especially compared to dogs these days.

Graces7

ppink wrote: »

this si my point...how do any of us know what goes into any of the foods??

the average Joe cannot tell what is in Tescos brand (i assume they have one) or in RC - they assume because RC or whatever is so much more expensive it must be better.

All our dogs growing up were brought up on scraps and all were very healthy.....especially compared to dogs these days.

Answering this and re the "cat and dog in kibble" post I put on.

We have family in Canada who have bred champion dogs there, train etc and also work in animal welfare.

There was a scandal there re the meat content in all dog food but especially in kibble; it is not internet research but fact, as of course they checked rigorously then. I said surely not in Europe,... but yes, here too. Even the German foods.

They were horrifed and checked very carefully. I have no reason to doubt them It took them a while to get at the truth too.

This is one reason we feed raw, including of course "scraps". As little processed as possible.

Many here will not have tried raw of course.... But once you see a dog eat a raw chicken wing.. Mine here have just tucked into a raw chicken back each with such gusto.
CRUNCH! CRUNCH!

And yes, sometimes we have there a dog who needs a special diet and just very rarely we find there that the only food they can tolerate is one containing cat/dog.

I would never now go back to dry food of any kind. Just very rarely it is needed. And then the cheapest most basic, which has no additives or colouring., ASDA own brand dog meal. As a supplement only; maybe one 2 k bag every 2 months is all. If that.