"Donating" images

Truss

I've read the sticky on asking for photographic services - this is more asking for an opinion on something similar but apologies if this should not be posted. I'm only curious about peoples opinions on this at the moment, not actually seeking services yet.

I am creating teaching materials for a niche market area and a large component of them requires photographs. I am taking the vast majority of images myself but I'm forseeing a number that I'll likely not be able to get hold of, primarily animals (e.g. ostrich, rhino). I was advised by another boards member that photographers might be willing to give me a photo that I could use as long as I credited them, which would be done.

Now just to say this was not my idea - another boards member told me I should try this avenue and wanted to see what people thought. My initial idea was simply to rely on my drawing of the animals and then turning them into vetor cartoons but photos would be better for some of the images I won't be able to get.

I'll be taking upwards of 1,500 photos myself but there might be around 100/150 that I can't get - I'll also be charging money for the materials but it's a one-man start-up business and I just won't be in a position to pay for the photos from others. The materials would be offered in both printed and eBook (PDF) version; and sold internationally.

Just to say as well that some of the photos might be turned into cartoon/vector images also or have their backgrounds removed to show specific portions of the photo (as in removing the background from a photo of a rhino).

Apologies if this is "bad practice" or anything trying to get photos for nothing.

Thanks for any input.

dave66

I'm new here so no idea if this thread is permitted, but let's assume it is

Perhaps if you were to supply a list of the shots/animals you need people could then let you know if they have any they would be willing to donate. As an amateur I would not any issue with donating an image (if I had any that were suitable) so long as the image was credited to me. As you are producing a Book and eBook, one incentive might be to give an eBook free to anyone who provides an image and a discount on the printed version. I'm sure there are people like me who would like to see one (or more) of their images in print.

PCPhoto

Truss wrote: »

I've read the sticky on asking for photographic services - this is more asking for an opinion on something similar but apologies if this should not be posted. I'm only curious about peoples opinions on this at the moment, not actually seeking services yet.

I am creating teaching materials for a niche market area and a large component of them requires photographs. I am taking the vast majority of images myself but I'm forseeing a number that I'll likely not be able to get hold of, primarily animals (e.g. ostrich, rhino). I was advised by another boards member that photographers might be willing to give me a photo that I could use as long as I credited them, which would be done.

Now just to say this was not my idea - another boards member told me I should try this avenue and wanted to see what people thought. My initial idea was simply to rely on my drawing of the animals and then turning them into vetor cartoons but photos would be better for some of the images I won't be able to get.

I'll be taking upwards of 1,500 photos myself but there might be around 100/150 that I can't get - I'll also be charging money for the materials but it's a one-man start-up business and I just won't be in a position to pay for the photos from others. The materials would be offered in both printed and eBook (PDF) version; and sold internationally.

Just to say as well that some of the photos might be turned into cartoon/vector images also or have their backgrounds removed to show specific portions of the photo (as in removing the background from a photo of a rhino).

Apologies if this is "bad practice" or anything trying to get photos for nothing.

Thanks for any input.

This is just my input.....

I'm more than happy to provide all of the missing images - in exchange for 20% of your profits !!

An amateur photographer or enthusiast will be happy to provide images in exchange for "exposure" or credit as you put it - but a professional photographer (someone who has to try to earn money from his/her photographs) will more than likely be looking for something in return - you are not doing this for free are you ? you hope to make money so why not share with the photographers who are "donating" ..... sometimes there might not be a difference between an amateur and professional in term of image quality ... but sometimes the difference is huge.

Ricky91t

Will you be generating income off these "teaching materials"?

If yes, then the offers are going to be slim as you're looking for free stuff to help you make an income/profit.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Look into the microstock websites, maybe, they'll have all the animals you need.

Truss

Yes I will be (trying) to make money off the materials.

About 95% of the total 1,500 photos (though it might actually be closer to 2,500) will be offered within one eBook - just incase it seems like I'm taking 100 images from someone and putting them into one book on their own and charging for it.

The 100 I might need (and it's likely I might not need that many in reality as I'm going to be trying to get everything myself) would make up part of the 2,500 total images.

To be honest I wasn't even going to ask because I thought it might be suprising if people were willing to donate photos.

I should say as well that the photos would not have to be like National Geographic quality (obviously though in focus and everything), the maximum size the image would be printed would be a quarter of an A4 page roughly, all that matters is the animal itself not the setting or background.

At present I cannot provide website details as it's all in development. I won't know exactly what I need for at least 3 months - again this was really just to see opinions about this early on so I can plan myself about how I need to organise getting the images.

I have considered compiling the images I would get off others with enough of my own images to put together certain teaching programs and provide those ones for free off the site - but there will be other teaching materials that are not image based that I will be selling from the site so in a round about way I'd still be technically making money from selling my own products that may get internet attention from giving away others photos - so again I can completely see why peolpe would not be ok with this.

Covey

Yet another post that puts a zero value on photography and photographers. It's people that "donate" to such commercial ventures that encourage this.

PCPhoto

Truss wrote: »

Yes I will be (trying) to make money off the materials.

About 95% of the total 1,500 photos (though it might actually be closer to 2,500) will be offered within one eBook - just incase it seems like I'm taking 100 images from someone and putting them into one book on their own and charging for it.

The 100 I might need (and it's likely I might not need that many in reality as I'm going to be trying to get everything myself) would make up part of the 2,500 total images.

To be honest I wasn't even going to ask because I thought it might be suprising if people were willing to donate photos.

I should say as well that the photos would not have to be like National Geographic quality (obviously though in focus and everything), the maximum size the image would be printed would be a quarter of an A4 page roughly, all that matters is the animal itself not the setting or background.

At present I cannot provide website details as it's all in development. I won't know exactly what I need for at least 3 months - again this was really just to see opinions about this early on so I can plan myself about how I need to organise getting the images.

I have considered compiling the images I would get off others with enough of my own images to put together certain teaching programs and provide those ones for free off the site - but there will be other teaching materials that are not image based that I will be selling from the site so in a round about way I'd still be technically making money from selling my own products that may get internet attention from giving away others photos - so again I can completely see why peolpe would not be ok with this.

like I said in my first post .... I'm more than happy to supply the images that you are missing in exchange for 20% of the profits - I have an extensive database of images which I can provide images from - but I'm not going to "Donate" to someone else making a profit - after all MY IMAGES ARE MY ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME !!!

I have over 5TB (yes ...terabytes !!) of images on external hard drives and several hundred DVD/CD's storing images also.

Fair play to you for trying to do it all yourself - but sometimes if you cannot get images and/or require specialist equipment to get images then you either have to pay for those images ...or leave them out of the project.

I have lenses from 16mm to 600mm and several camera bodies (6), motion activated wildlife camera, underwater housings, etc etc - this years plan is to fly to Hawaii and do some underwater pics of turtles/sharks and general fish.

Fenster

I would be very happy to freely contribute if your material is being distributed on a strictly non-profit (and indeed, you can just snag them from my Flickr stream for that end). However, if you are working on a for-profit basis I would, and many other photographers, would insist on being compensated.

Rather than dealing with all of us individually, you are probably better off going to a stock site.

Ricky91t

This would be the same as me asking you for your ebook so I can put it into a series of ebooks (10 of which I've made myself ) and sell it. But of course I'll give you a credit!

It's not going to happen, you're not going to give something away for free that you've spent time and money on, So why should any photographer here?!

You want to make a profit, So what if you've put in 1500 images of your own you are still asking for images for free. Try this with getty or another huge image source and at most you'd get a friendly no.

I totally agree with coveys and PcPhoto's post.

Truss

Look as I've said this was suggested to me (a long time ago) and thought I'd get opinions - I apologise if this is putting the zero value on photography.

I have spent a long time looking at sites to buy images from but the restrictions on usage or the cost (e.g. €100 for one 724x482 72dpi image) - it's beyond my means and would mean I would not make anything myself.

Apologies again if I'm putting a zero value on photography but I had originally looked into paying for them and cannot afford it thus my original reason for relying on my own drawing and vectorizing.

Thanks for the input.

Covey

Truss wrote: »

I have spent a long time looking at sites to buy images from but the restrictions on usage or the cost (e.g. €100 for one 724x482 72dpi image) - it's beyond my means and would mean I would not make anything myself.

Welcome to the world of commerce. At the very lowest level there's barter i.e. you give something to get something. You've not even managed to go that far.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Truss wrote: »

I have spent a long time looking at sites to buy images from but the restrictions on usage or the cost (e.g. €100 for one 724x482 72dpi image) - it's beyond my means and would mean I would not make anything myself.

Again I'll suggest you look into Microstock sites, I'm sure you'll find them a very affordable solution, and who knows, you may even end up with work from a 'tog here on boards.ie, and compensate them for their efforts, win/win.

Truss

Well this post was aimed at gaining opinions...if I bartered I would be breaking the rules as I would then be actually soliciting services which is not allowed...so that's the reason I am not doing that. I also can't barter when I don't know exactly which photos I'm not going to be able to get.

Thanks for the advice PopeBuckfastXVI, I think I will try that option if needed when the time comes.

I get the feeling I have struck a nerve with some so apologies again to those who feel I'm devaluing photography - I actually went to start this post a number of times and didn't half expecting to be told to f*ck off - I think I got that answer in a more polite way.

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Covey

Truss wrote: »

Well this post was aimed at gaining opinions...if I bartered I would be breaking the rules as I would then be actually soliciting services which is not allowed...so that's the reason I am not doing that. I also can't barter when I don't know exactly which photos I'm not going to be able to get.

Sounds like a business plan alright

Of course you are soliciting services, services for your commercial venture for free.

Ricky91t

Truss wrote: »

Look as I've said this was suggested to me (a long time ago) and thought I'd get opinions - I apologise if this is putting the zero value on photography.

I have spent a long time looking at sites to buy images from but the restrictions on usage or the cost (e.g. €100 for one 724x482 72dpi image) - it's beyond my means and would mean I would not make anything myself.

Apologies again if I'm putting a zero value on photography but I had originally looked into paying for them and cannot afford it thus my original reason for relying on my own drawing and vectorizing.

Thanks for the input.

I'm sure if you offered even a fraction of that price, it would keep a lot of members happy here, And you'd probably get a full res images too(as long as you still credit).

If you think, Where would most people see the animals you're talking about, the zoo. I was in Dublin recently and traveled specifically to the zoo to get some nice photos of the animals there, The fact it cost me to travel to and from there, then the ticket price, food etc you can see why someone coming along asking for free images isn't going to be warmly welcomed.

I know it was suggested to you, but I'm sure it might of crossed your mind that asking for something for free is never going to be taken well.

Even if you reconsidered and said once you've made enough to cover the amount to pay a small price for each photo people would probably take you up on that..

Just a suggestion.

Truss

Ricky91t wrote: »

I'm sure if you offered even a fraction of that price, it would keep a lot of members happy here, And you'd probably get a full res images too(as long as you still credit).

If you think, Where would most people see the animals you're talking about, the zoo. I was in Dublin recently and traveled specifically to the zoo to get some nice photos of the animals there, The fact it cost me to travel to and from there, then the ticket price, food etc you can see why someone coming along asking for free images isn't going to be warmly welcomed.

I know it was suggested to you, but I'm sure it might of crossed your mind that asking for something for free is never going to be taken well.

Even if you reconsidered and said once you've made enough to cover the amount to pay a small price for each photo people would probably take you up on that..

Just a suggestion.

Yeah that's actually very useful advice thankyou. When I have a better idea of what I need I think I'll just come back and put up an actual ad for images and see what comes of it. Come to think of it I don't know why I didn't just think of that and not bother with this post - I would like to keep things 100% Irish so will definately do that.

I can completely see you're point alright, I've made that trip to the zoo already and know what you mean.

Cheers.

Truss

Covey wrote: »

Of course you are soliciting services, services for your commercial venture for free.

I haven't actually asked for anything from anyone so I have not solicited services - again this was to get opinions about it not to actually ask for anything.

If this seems like I was soliciting services then apologies and by all means please delete the post.

Fenster

Sell advertising. Your ebook on "Physical Education Workouts" becomes "Physical Education Workouts with Nike™."

Covey

Truss wrote: »

Apologies if this is "bad practice" or anything trying to get photos for nothing

Sounds like asking for services to me.

Trying to play with words is not doing yourself any favours here.

Truss

Covey wrote: »

Sounds like asking for services to me.

Trying to play with words is not doing yourself any favours here.

Please do not accuse me of playing with words when I am not. I think it's clear you've taken offence to my post (even mocking it in another post since) and that's fair enough but don't accuse me of anything I have not done.

If that is how this post seems it should be deleted because it is against the rules to ask for services without an advertisement - it has not been deleted (yet of course) and I find nowhere have I actually put a request for any images - I was seeking opinions about asking for images in this way.

Covey

I quoted your words "trying to get photos for nothing" and didn't alter them.

magicbastarder

guys - go easy on him. it was suggested to him he try here, which he did in what seems like a very open manner, and he cannot be blamed for not knowing the prevailing attitude.

Truss

"this is more asking for an opinion on something similar but apologies if this should not be posted. I'm only curious about peoples opinions on this at the moment, not actually seeking services yet."

"Look as I've said this was suggested to me (a long time ago) and thought I'd get opinions"

"Well this post was aimed at gaining opinions"

I think you missed the context of the phrase in my posts...

Quoting a single phrase can make anything look the way you want it; I think you are picking on one phrase that in the context of the whole post is clearly not asking for anything from anyone. It was a broad statement about the possible method of obtaining photos - I again repeat that I never asked anything from anyone, I did not solicit services.

Again thanks for all the input everyone.

Edit: This was meant as a reply to Covey's last post. Also, this is getting off topic and I think adding nothing to the photo forum anymore - if you think I was soliciting services then report this post for breaking the rules. I won't waste anyone elses time with this anymore.

PCPhoto

magicbastarder wrote: »

guys - go easy on him. it was suggested to him he try here, which he did in what seems like a very open manner, and he cannot be blamed for not knowing the prevailing attitude.

I offered to provide him with whatever images he requires - which would sort his situation out and all that I asked in return was a share in the profits that my images would be contributing to earning.

my offer was ignored !!

I can supply and/or take whatever images are required - I work as a professional photographer and contain an extensive database.

my offer was/is a genuine one - although the profit percentage is flexible - I do however think the OP is admitting that he is unable to get certain images and is looking to source these images (for free if possible) .... I'm more than willing to help complete the task of getting these images, I have some specialist equipment which is used to photograph in different environments which would be a further cost to the OP if he wanted to get proper images - this is money I have invested (underwater housing cost over €2K, digital SLR specific to housing min €1K - various lenses, strobes, cables) .... alternatively for on land images - super macro lenses (Canon MPE-65) and specifically designed macro flashes - which together can make a spiders face look freakishly scary.

in summary - the OP is looking for help - I offered to help but want to get a cut (to compensate me for the thousands I put into purchasing gear and learning how to use it) , the OP seems to not want to give anyone a cut.

My offer is there - but the longer its ignored the less flexible I am with percentages !!!

PopeBuckfastXVI

*mumbles something about microstock for the third time, and wonders why he bothers*

Truss

PCPhoto wrote: »

I offered to provide him with whatever images he requires - which would sort his situation out and all that I asked in return was a share in the profits that my images would be contributing to earning.

my offer was ignored !!

I can supply and/or take whatever images are required - I work as a professional photographer and contain an extensive database.

my offer was/is a genuine one - although the profit percentage is flexible - I do however think the OP is admitting that he is unable to get certain images and is looking to source these images (for free if possible) .... I'm more than willing to help complete the task of getting these images, I have some specialist equipment which is used to photograph in different environments which would be a further cost to the OP if he wanted to get proper images - this is money I have invested (underwater housing cost over €2K, digital SLR specific to housing min €1K - various lenses, strobes, cables) .... alternatively for on land images - super macro lenses (Canon MPE-65) and specifically designed macro flashes - which together can make a spiders face look freakishly scary.

in summary - the OP is looking for help - I offered to help but want to get a cut (to compensate me for the thousands I put into purchasing gear and learning how to use it) , the OP seems to not want to give anyone a cut.

My offer is there - but the longer its ignored the less flexible I am with percentages !!!

Very sorry for the ingore - I actually thought you were joking because of the wink face in your post. Also the percentage of 20% for possibly providing a maximum of 7% (100 out of 1,500, though more likely 2,500) of needed images is beyond what I'd be willing to offer. It's also on the basis of keeping track of everything I don't need an additional % to keep track of - one off payments for photos would be fine (something I'd initially looked into but couldn't due to pricing and restrictions) though as suggested by Ricky91t there are other ways which I'll now look into.

I would also have trouble saying yes to your offer because I don't even know what I need yet - also it entered my head that by actually responding to what I thought was a joking post would have actually been soliciting services and thats the major reason I didn't. I will by all means get in touch when I do know and see what we can come to a deal on.

And sorry if this is verging on "bartering for services".

Truss

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

*mumbles something about microstock for the third time, and wonders why he bothers*

Well I've heard you and am looking that direction too - actually suprised with myself that I never came across this format in all the searching I did, very much appreciated. Thanks.

smelltheglove

Truss wrote: »

Well this post was aimed at gaining opinions...if I bartered I would be breaking the rules as I would then be actually soliciting services which is not allowed...so that's the reason I am not doing that. I also can't barter when I don't know exactly which photos I'm not going to be able to get.

Thanks for the advice PopeBuckfastXVI, I think I will try that option if needed when the time comes.

I get the feeling I have struck a nerve with some so apologies again to those who feel I'm devaluing photography - I actually went to start this post a number of times and didn't half expecting to be told to f*ck off - I think I got that answer in a more polite way.

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

I echo what many have said here, I realise you have been advised to ask for this but this whole attitude of people, companies, papers asking for photos for free is what is making the photography industry so hard to survive in! I also note that you are offering to credit the photographer in your book which is better than some, I've been asked by papers for images for free with no credit!

Unfortunately it is a very common request here, photography for free but I'll credit you, if you think about it really, photography equipment is far from cheap, a mechanic wouldnt fix your car for free if you offered to put his name on the windscreen and I certainly wouldnt supply images for free using thousands of euro worth of equipment (i.e. camera bodies, lenses, lights, software, computers) just for the chance of having my name printed in a book that I may never see!

I'm sure all of us wish you the best in your venture and that you make a successful business but when we ourselves are trying to make ends meet with our own businesses its not going to pay the bills by giving work away for free!

Truss

smelltheglove wrote: »

I echo what many have said here, I realise you have been advised to ask for this but this whole attitude of people, companies, papers asking for photos for free is what is making the photography industry so hard to survive in! I also note that you are offering to credit the photographer in your book which is better than some, I've been asked by papers for images for free with no credit!

Unfortunately it is a very common request here, photography for free but I'll credit you, if you think about it really, photography equipment is far from cheap, a mechanic wouldnt fix your car for free if you offered to put his name on the windscreen and I certainly wouldnt supply images for free using thousands of euro worth of equipment (i.e. camera bodies, lenses, lights, software, computers) just for the chance of having my name printed in a book that I may never see!

I'm sure all of us wish you the best in your venture and that you make a successful business but when we ourselves are trying to make ends meet with our own businesses its not going to pay the bills by giving work away for free!

Yeah look I can't say I was thinking very clearly about this post to be honest - trying to get these photos taken myself, each one edited to remove the backgrounds and resized differently for different educational has raised so many issues that I had not even considered I am at times extremely brain drained - today was one of those days and I think it was as much a cry for help than anything else and wanting a feeling of getting something easy for a change. I got an EOS450D and built my own lightbox to try to make sure I do as good a job as I can for the photos so considering my meagre purchase of €850 for a camera I can understand others frustration with posts like this one .

Thanks for the well wishes, hopefully something will come of it so I can progress the materials to include more Irish photographers images - purchased ones of course .

bullpost

magicbastarder wrote: »

guys - go easy on him. it was suggested to him he try here, which he did in what seems like a very open manner, and he cannot be blamed for not knowing the prevailing attitude.

I'd second that. The prevailing attitude in this thread and others like it in the past are set by the pros on here . This sometimes comes across like they are speaking for everyone. While I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to make a living there are another type of photographer on here who are strictly hobbyist and who may be quite happy to donate an image in return for a credit, depending on the situation of course.

Ricky91t

bullpost wrote: »

I'd second that. The prevailing attitude in this thread and others like it in the past are set by the pros on here . This sometimes comes across like they are speaking for everyone. While I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to make a living there are another type of photographer on here who are strictly hobbyist and who may be quite happy to donate an image in return for a credit, depending on the situation of course.

I'm aware of only one or 2 pros posting in this thread, I'm not a pro..

So just be aware that although you may think we're all "pros" some of us aren't, I for one am not and therefore my view are coming from a hobbyist side showing it's not just the pro's that are expressing their views.

PCPhoto

bullpost wrote: »

I'd second that. The prevailing attitude in this thread and others like it in the past are set by the pros on here . This sometimes comes across like they are speaking for everyone. While I have sympathy for anyone who is trying to make a living there are another type of photographer on here who are strictly hobbyist and who may be quite happy to donate an image in return for a credit, depending on the situation of course.

I am a pro and have stated I'm a pro and offered a "deal" - and also offered my "expertise" as others have pointed out theres a lot of money and training/learning goes into getting pictures which others cant/wont - I have plenty of years of experience and have helped plenty of others on Boards.... usually at my expense - financially I cant afford to help people without making something.

bullpost

PCPhoto wrote: »

I am a pro and have stated I'm a pro and offered a "deal" - and also offered my "expertise" as others have pointed out theres a lot of money and training/learning goes into getting pictures which others cant/wont - I have plenty of years of experience and have helped plenty of others on Boards.... usually at my expense - financially I cant afford to help people without making something.

I absolutely appreciate your position as a pro but I just wanted the represent another point of view .

Covey

I'm not a pro either.

Looking for something, regardless of what that is, for free, to make a personal profit, goes against the grain a bit.

bullpost

Covey wrote: »

I'm not a pro either.

Looking for something, regardless of what that is, for free, to make a personal profit, goes against the grain a bit.

True. I would always like something in return. That something would not necessarily be money.

Covey

bullpost wrote: »

True. I would always like something in return. That something would not necessarily be money.

Exactly what i said earlier.:cool:

bullpost

Covey wrote: »

Exactly what i said earlier.:cool:

Concensus. cool. I just react when I see some of these threads where the stormtroopers rush in