Series 5, Episode 7 - "Amy's Choice"

pixelburp

As usual, here's a new thread for tomorrow's episode (one day early, but hey, it seems to discombobulate BlitzKrieg )

I must admit, I didn't know much about this story beyond what I saw in the trailer, and because of it, I'm utterly intrigued. The premise / mystery seems compelling, it looks like yet another dark episode & Toby Jones as the guest star? Sold.

Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHdMtpuzFII

pixelburp

Oh and some clips too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0loB7ZpVhc

Busi_Girl08

I guess I can't give out too much about people being rendered unconscious in this episode

Sleepy

I think I'm going to make my girlfriend watch this one... something tells me this could be up there with The Girl in the Fireplace which made me a Doctor Who fan!

Stark

"Is anyone going to mention the elephant in the room?" "I have to be this size, I'm having a baby".

Busi_Girl08

"YOU SWALLOWED A PLANET!!"

Hah! :pac:

Stark

/goes off to "theories about Amy" thread. "Planet eater disguising itself as a human".

pixelburp

Stark wrote: »

/goes off to "theories about Amy" thread. "Planet eater disguising itself as a human".

:eek: You mean Lovely Amy is actually ...

Doctor DooM

Stark wrote: »

/goes off to "theories about Amy" thread. "Planet eater disguising itself as a human".

No no no no. it's obvious, red hair see.


Amy is RIVERS mother!

Daemos

Yeah really looking forward to this one, like pixelburp all I knew about this was the name and assumed it had to do with Amy choosing either Rory or The Doctor, especially since Rory joined the crew last week. I could see this one getting a Blink-esque review.

Looks very dark to me, because

assuming the village world where Amy is pregnant is the dream, not only will the characters have to die themselves but Amy will have to kill her unborn child, which dream or not is a grim notion, could be a very emotional episode

Doctor DooM

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Looks very dark to me, because

assuming the village world where Amy is pregnant is the dream, not only will the characters have to die themselves but Amy will have to kill her unborn child, which dream or not is a grim notion, could be a very emotional episode

Soon as I saw the trailer after the last ep I assumed

this was the choice

.

Daemos

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Soon as I saw the trailer after the last ep I assumed

this was the choice

.

Exactly, Amy will (I think) have to choose which world is the real one, presumably killing her (not real) child in the process

Doctor DooM

Valeyard FTW!!!

Busi_Girl08

That was brilliant!

I loved the twist at the end.

Daemos

Yeah very good episode. Even from the beginning, parking the Tardis in the flowerbed

Daemos

Spoilers, sweetie :D

Doctor DooM

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Spoilers, sweetie :D

Don't quote something you think should be spoilered, hunny bun.

Also that's not really a spoiler, it's a Doctor Who "theory". lol

Daemos

Meh, that's what the edit button's for Having said that I did hear that theory of who he was before so no harm done

Doctor DooM

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Meh, that's what the edit button's for Having said that I did hear that theory of who he was before so no harm done

I'd say it's a homage rather than something we'll have rammed down our throats.

GSPfan

Can you spoiler for me what you two are going on about? Have no idea. Love spoilers.

Thought this episode was great. I half figured out the plot but not the "which reality is real" bit. Can't wait for the music of this series to come out. Does anyone know any youtube link or anything to the violin sad bit that plays when amy is told to choose while she stands in the tardis with her boys at her feet. She moves the blanket on Rory. I think its been used in previous seasons.

Actually looking back on that episode it was brilliant. Great moments.... funny and emotional. And no CGI to whinge about. yay.

'There's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do'

Looks like poor Doctor has

low self esteem

!

GSPfan

Just Googled that spoiler thingy and still none the wiser as to what exactly it is. I'm only a fan since Eccelston so my Doctor Who history is non-existant.

Doctor DooM

GSPfan wrote: »

Just Googled that spoiler thingy and still none the wiser as to what exactly it is. I'm only a fan since Eccelston so my Doctor Who history is non-existant.

google fail!

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Valeyard

GSPfan

Ta' for that. Very very cool. Love the subtle way this was inserted into the episode as to not confuse your average viewer like me. (Assuming that's what they are hinting at.)

Can't believe I used to hate Doctor Who. shame.:o

Doctor DooM

GSPfan wrote: »

Ta' for that. Very very cool. Love the subtle way this was inserted into the episode as to not confuse your average viewer like me. (Assuming that's what they are hinting at.)

Can't believe I used to hate Doctor Who. shame.:o

It's ok. You're one of us now.

Yeah I like my homages subtle myself.

Killer_banana

Wow that was just amazing. Best of the series so far if you ask me. Simon Nye should write Who more often! He's very good at fitting several plots into one episode without making it overcrowded and giving each it's deserved share of time, something which many writers can't do at all (although a certain former Who writer still tried to quite a lot ). I actually can't think of anything about the episode I didn't like, it was, for me, flawless.

I like that Amy chose Rory, you knew she always would anyway but the way it was done was brilliantly heart-wrenching, I was in bits. I thought at the end of the episode Amy might actually ask the Doctor to take her home after she realised he can't save everyone. I wonder if we'll see some changes in their relationship now, I hope so because it would be more interesting to see how she deals with the Doctor if she no longer sees him as infallible rather than carrying on as always but I suppose I should remember it is just a kids show.

This is gonna look like a massive spoiler but it's actually just me asking questions about a possible spoiler so I just tagged it all to be safe.

As for the possibility of the Dreamlord being the Valeyard does that mean the pollen stuff was just a cover because even while the Doctor was explaining it, it did seem a bit too easy but then again the Valeyard is, as far as I know, the worst parts of the Doctor so why would the Doctor lie about the pollen when what he said basically amounted to the same thing except he said the pollen caused the dreams. But then if it is the Valeyard wouldn't that mean the return of the Timelords or sine the Valeyard is part of the Doctor does he basically count as being the Doctor? Or are we just calling the Dreamlod the Valeyard cos it's essentially the same idea. My head hurts. I might understand more if I'd seen the episodes with the Valeyard in them but I plan on working my way chronologically through classic who so it should be a while yet.

Anyone else notice the mention of jumping a time track? I thought that was a nice touch.

thusspakeblixa

IMO the best episode this season so far anyway.
There being no overt references to the crack in time was welcome.

Doctor DooM

Killer_banana wrote: »

As for the possibility of the Dreamlord being the Valeyard does that mean the pollen stuff was just a cover because even while the Doctor was explaining it, it did seem a bit too easy but then again the Valeyard is, as far as I know, the worst parts of the Doctor so why would the Doctor lie about the pollen when what he said basically amounted to the same thing except he said the pollen caused the dreams. But then if it is the Valeyard wouldn't that mean the return of the Timelords or sine the Valeyard is part of the Doctor does he basically count as being the Doctor? Or are we just calling the Dreamlod the Valeyard cos it's essentially the same idea. My head hurts. I might understand more if I'd seen the episodes with the Valeyard in them but I plan on working my way chronologically through classic who so it should be a while yet.

Remember that we don't actually know the origin of the Valeyard. So he could be anything Moffat wants him to be. 1 thing is he is supposed to have come from a late regeneration... which is a point we're at now.

It's very possible the Dreamlord isn't the Valeyard at all. I actually said it as a joke!

Killer_banana

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Remember that we don't actually know the origin of the Valeyard. So he could be anything Moffat wants him to be. 1 thing is he is supposed to have come from a late regeneration... which is a point we're at now.

It's very possible the Dreamlord isn't the Valeyard at all. I actually said it as a joke!

Ah right okay (I tend to read too much into things). I only presumed you were serious because it would actually make a lot of sense and personally the pollen thing didn't sit right with me for some reason.

anotherlostie

I didn't think it was as good as I was expecting it to be from the trailer - maybe they gave too much away? At the end of the day the Doctor and companions were in no peril, so were never at risk of dying in reality, were they? The twist at the end was a nice surprise.

Has Rory permanently joined the crew? I was expecting him to go back home after this episode. But I would like him to stay - we've had three companions for 4 of the 7 episodes and much as I like Amy, I prefer the dynamic with a third cog.

angelll

Loved it,finally Even amy didn't annoy me as much. Brilliant episode. And next weeks looks great too!

Mr E

Loved it for the most part. The psychic pollen explanation was a bit limp though.
Enjoying this season alot. No farting aliens in sight.

angelll

Mr E wrote: »

Loved it for the most part. The psychic pollen explanation was a bit limp though.
Enjoying this season alot. No farting aliens in sight.

I dunno,thought i heard a definite parp when one of those old people passed....

Pittens

Great Episode.

Pretty sure the DreamLord is not the ValeYard - though the concepts are similar. It's the dark part of The Doctor's psyche in a dream.

Yeah, the pollen was a weak explanation but over all, marvellous.

Banjo Fella

Wow, fantastic episode! Deeply emotional and a terrific premise. I'll have to watch this again

bearing in mind the twist at the end

!

I felt so awful when the Doctor said that "there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do", makes you want to give him a hug. =/ The bit where the Doctor struggled to keep himself upright and awake while running through Leadworth was very lol. Matt Smith is terrific. :P

Matthewthebig

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Valeyard FTW!!!

I thought that too. We better be right.

Seems to be one of the last villains not remade.

cosgrove80

Great episode.

When the Doctor said that

"there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do", I first thought they might have being bringing The Master back.

Busi_Girl08

Me too

Killer_banana

Same here but then I thought it would be way too soon.

jasonb

Once again, an episode that 'I enjoyed, but....'

As I've posted in the Series 5 Thread, I just feel like this season is missing a soul.

For example, a few posters mentioned that Amy's Choice would result in

her unborn baby dying

, and they thought this would make very compelling TV. But it wasn't even brought up once.

The Dream Lord ( who was a great idea, until he just became

'space pollen'

), asked Amy that

if the Doctor trusted her so much, how come she doesn't know his name. That's clearly a reference to River for us, but for Amy I thought she'd at least ask the Doctor his name! *WE* know he won't tell her etc., but she doesn't know that.

A few times she's acted like she knows more and is far more comfortable with him than she should be ( adding to all the theories about her of course ).

As someone else pointed out, one of the dream worlds shows that

Amy now knows the Doctor can't always save everyone

. But that wasn't mentioned at the end, no 'this isn't playtime, it's serious, isn't it' speech.

What was the point of

Rory cutting off his pony tail? I got the feeling it was meant to be a sacrifice for him, but exactly how? Did he think it'd save them from the old people, or maybe prove it was the dream world? When he went over to look at the cot etc. I really thought it was him realising that it had to be a dream world ( 'cos maybe he thought he couldn't be so lucky to have this life or something like that ) but that didn't happen either

.

I guess, as you can see, that the episode raised a lot more questions for me than it answered. It just bothers me that the writer seem to want these questions raised, but aren't answering them! I can't help feeling ( like I've felt all season ) that if the show was 15 mins longer than scenes or ideas that were hinted at would be expanded, or even just answered or referred to in the end.

Maybe I'm just missing DT's quieter moments, but the show seems to have gone down a more lighthearted / madcap / no time to stop and explain route. Well, not lighthearted, but when something serious or sad does happen, it's never given time for it's consequences to really kick in.

Oops... rant over!

J.

jasonb

Actually, a thought just occured to me :

Did Rory cut off his ponytail to try to convince Amy to choose that world? That might make sense, he sees the cot, realises how much he wants this life, and then makes the sacrifice of cutting of the ponytail to show her he can change, and he'll do whatever it takes to have this life with her.

Of course, if that's true, was it just badly hinted at or am I just slow? Why not put a line in saying 'this is how much I want you to choose here' or something like that?

J.

Killer_banana

jasonb wrote: »

Once again, an episode that 'I enjoyed, but....'

As I've posted in the Series 5 Thread, I just feel like this season is missing a soul.

For example, a few posters mentioned that Amy's Choice would result in

her unborn baby dying

, and they thought this would make very compelling TV. But it wasn't even brought up once.

The Dream Lord ( who was a great idea, until he just became

'space pollen'

), asked Amy that

if the Doctor trusted her so much, how come she doesn't know his name. That's clearly a reference to River for us, but for Amy I thought she'd at least ask the Doctor his name! *WE* know he won't tell her etc., but she doesn't know that.

A few times she's acted like she knows more and is far more comfortable with him than she should be ( adding to all the theories about her of course ).

As someone else pointed out, one of the dream worlds shows that

Amy now knows the Doctor can't always save everyone

. But that wasn't mentioned at the end, no 'this isn't playtime, it's serious, isn't it' speech.

What was the point of

Rory cutting off his pony tail? I got the feeling it was meant to be a sacrifice for him, but exactly how? Did he think it'd save them from the old people, or maybe prove it was the dream world? When he went over to look at the cot etc. I really thought it was him realising that it had to be a dream world ( 'cos maybe he thought he couldn't be so lucky to have this life or something like that ) but that didn't happen either

.

I guess, as you can see, that the episode raised a lot more questions for me than it answered. It just bothers me that the writer seem to want these questions raised, but aren't answering them! I can't help feeling ( like I've felt all season ) that if the show was 15 mins longer than scenes or ideas that were hinted at would be expanded, or even just answered or referred to in the end.

Maybe I'm just missing DT's quieter moments, but the show seems to have gone down a more lighthearted / madcap / no time to stop and explain route. Well, not lighthearted, but when something serious or sad does happen, it's never given time for it's consequences to really kick in.

Oops... rant over!

J.

Are spoiler tags required? I'm pretty sure anyone reading this thread will be expecting spoilers anyway. I tend spoiler tag possible theories or things people won't have noticed as a precaution. Anyway...

He cut off his ponytail to prove how much he loved her. Well that's what I got from it anyway. Rory saw the ponytail as important because it made him 'stand out' in the village so he wasn't just another village doctor, he wanted to seem a bit more individual and unique. It was more of a joke than anything else. As for the looking at the cot I just presumed Rory was thinking about whether that world was real or a dream it was becoming less and less likely he would ever get to be a father.

As for the unborn child situation, it does seem a bit odd it was never brought up until you remember Doctor who is a children's show. And I know children can deal with a lot more than Who has given them credit for in the past but surely a mothers dilemma over killing her baby would be too far? I don't think children would have the emotional maturity to handle topics so serious and dark.

As for your opinion of the series so far, well I see it completely the opposite. I love Tennant but his era being darker? Really? I find this series far darker and Matt Smith may not have more 'quiet' moments but he has a lot more genuinely emotional moments and I feel the plots are farm ore developed and explained than before when the Doctor just used the sonic screwdriver for everything and we had to go along with it without proper explanation. Still I guess we look fro different things from Who so we'l just agree to disagree. :P

pixelburp

Well like the rest of ye, I thought that episode was flippin' good. It's funny how consistently the best episodes across all series have been the ones with the relatively limited premises and SFX, rather than the "world at peril" operas you often got.

It was all excellently put together, with a genuine mystery that kept you constantly guessing. Again, it was a dark premise with some smart and adult undertones to it all. As usual the banter between the leads was spot on & once again Matt Smith steals the show with his quirky performance & delivery of the lines. His wobbling down the street half-asleep was a genuine laugh-out-loud moment At this stage, I'd love to see a multi-Doctor story because the interaction between 9,10 and 11 would be faboo

As for the revelation, it certainly had a punch to it - is this the last we'll see of the Dreamlord? Hopefully not - and it highlighted in one personified lump that the Doctor still has plenty of demons. The discovery that it was just a bit of space-pollen seemed unbelievably pat to be honest, which is why I don't believe it for a second:

This episode's purpose was to emphasize that the Doctor not only has secrets, but can't always be trusted or that he can't always save everyone. He knew from the start who the Dreamlord was, but only revealed it at the last minute, quite flippantly. Maybe it was just a bit of SFX fanciness, but why did the Dreamlord behave like a hologram? So I don't think we should believe the Doctor when he says it was a bit of pollen!

Duckjob

Fantastic episode.

Like all the best Who, a great mix of pathos and humour. I loved the whole Ledworth scene, particularly the moment at the end with

Amy telling Rory - "You were dead. Mrs Poggit got you!"

I also think Matt Smith is really starting to getting comfortable in the role of the Doctor and I'm starting to really enjoy his performances.

10/10. Hope there's plenty more like this.

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

As for the revelation, it certainly had a punch to it - is this the last we'll see of the Dreamlord? Hopefully not - and it highlighted in one personified lump that the Doctor still has plenty of demons. The discovery that it was just a bit of space-pollen seemed unbelievably pat to be honest, which is why I don't believe it for a second:

This episode's purpose was to emphasize that the Doctor not only has secrets, but can't always be trusted or that he can't always save everyone. He knew from the start who the Dreamlord was, but only revealed it at the last minute, quite flippantly. Maybe it was just a bit of SFX fanciness, but why did the Dreamlord behave like a hologram? So I don't think we should believe the Doctor when he says it was a bit of pollen!

Well, I think that'd be looking at it the wrong way.


The pollen "unlocked" the dream lord from inside the Doctor, the dream lord is not the actual pollen. I instandly assumed from the end that he was dismissing it as all over while the image of the dreamlord was a reminder to him and us that despite the pollen being gone it's still and probably always will be a part of him. Again, standard comic book storytelling

GSPfan

Jasonb - Whats wrong with ya? This season and this episode were great. I think you have to be less critical and analytical when you watch this show. Its a family show. How depressing would it be if Amy started talking about killing her unborn child. If you can't enjoy that episode then what can you enjoy? That was good.

Pixelburp - I agree with ya that the best episodes are always the ones where the only thing at stake is their own lives or the lives of a small few. Leave the "Save the Planet" episodes for finales or two parters I say.

Has anyone noticed how much this season has been based on Earth or about Earth? Has Amy even visited another planet yet? I'm trying to think. Actually the Angels episode was one but DT and Rose seemed to be on Alien planets every second week.

BaconZombie

Only just started watching the episode but I think I've just heard the best quote so far:

109
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,600
Argh!

110
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,720
Never use force.
You just embarrass yourself.

111
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,560
Unless you're cross, in which case -
always use force.

112
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,960
Shall I run and get the manual?
I threw it in a supernova.

113
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,120
You threw the manual in a supernova?

114
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,000
Why? Because I disagreed with it.

115
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,800
Stop talking to me when I'm cross.

Doctor DooM

GSPfan wrote: »

Pixelburp - I agree with ya that the best episodes are always the ones where the only thing at stake is their own lives or the lives of a small few. Leave the "Save the Planet" episodes for finales or two parters I say.

Has anyone noticed how much this season has been based on Earth or about Earth? Has Amy even visited another planet yet? I'm trying to think. Actually the Angels episode was one but DT and Rose seemed to be on Alien planets every second week.

I agree with the small scale. I thought Midnight was one of the best things RTD ever did. Bearing in mind he also did Children of Earth!

Actually, if you check out old episodes of podshock, people have been complaining about too many episodes of DW being set on earth since 2005. Welcome to the club, once again

GSPfan

Ha ha. I only noticed it this week. And watching next weeks trailer I was just thinking "Earth again" .... Jesus.
It always kinda annoyed me a little that the Doctor was so obsessed with Earth until the first episode of this season when he says to the Atraxi "Well I've put a lot of work into it". Ha, I know thats pretty silly for one comment to just change my opinion but I know that feeling. Its like watching Prison Break or Heroes from the start. After season 2 they decline but you feel like you've invested a lot of time into it so you have to stick at it. And when season 4 comes around you are just praying for them to cancel it so you can be set free!

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Well, I think that'd be looking at it the wrong way.
The pollen "unlocked" the dream lord from inside the Doctor, the dream lord is not the actual pollen. I instandly assumed from the end that he was dismissing it as all over while the image of the dreamlord was a reminder to him and us that despite the pollen being gone it's still and probably always will be a part of him. Again, standard comic book storytelling

Oh I got that the pollen was only the catalyst, but even that seemed a bit pat. I dunno, maybe it was because we weren't really given much time to swallow this revelation that it seemed a bit too flippant by half: oh look it was just a strange hallucination brought on by pollen, time to go. Maybe I'm just seeing shadows were there are none.

Then again, this being Dr. Who, I wouldn't write off the Dreamlord returning as a physical being through some mcGuffin or resurrection-potion (vomit).

Banjo Fella

Killer_banana wrote: »

He cut off his ponytail to prove how much he loved her. Well that's what I got from it anyway. Rory saw the ponytail as important because it made him 'stand out' in the village so he wasn't just another village Doctor, he wanted to seem a bit more individual and unique.

Yep, that's pretty much how I saw it as well. Plus, the army of bodysnatchers were rapidly encroaching upon him and Amy, so he knew that their end was near. I'm guessing he cut off his ponytail so that if he died protecting her, she would have something symbolic to remember him by. And she does, Amy held his shorn ponytail in her hand after he had passed.

Just watched it for the second time, there. Such a good episode! A wonderful exploration of the Doctor's character.