Series 5, Episode 7 - "Amy's Choice"

Mr E

Loved it for the most part. The psychic pollen explanation was a bit limp though.
Enjoying this season alot. No farting aliens in sight.

angelll

Mr E wrote: »

Loved it for the most part. The psychic pollen explanation was a bit limp though.
Enjoying this season alot. No farting aliens in sight.

I dunno,thought i heard a definite parp when one of those old people passed....

Pittens

Great Episode.

Pretty sure the DreamLord is not the ValeYard - though the concepts are similar. It's the dark part of The Doctor's psyche in a dream.

Yeah, the pollen was a weak explanation but over all, marvellous.

Banjo Fella

Wow, fantastic episode! Deeply emotional and a terrific premise. I'll have to watch this again

bearing in mind the twist at the end

!

I felt so awful when the Doctor said that "there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do", makes you want to give him a hug. =/ The bit where the Doctor struggled to keep himself upright and awake while running through Leadworth was very lol. Matt Smith is terrific. :P

Matthewthebig

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Valeyard FTW!!!

I thought that too. We better be right.

Seems to be one of the last villains not remade.

cosgrove80

Great episode.

When the Doctor said that

"there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do", I first thought they might have being bringing The Master back.

Busi_Girl08

Me too

Killer_banana

Same here but then I thought it would be way too soon.

jasonb

Once again, an episode that 'I enjoyed, but....'

As I've posted in the Series 5 Thread, I just feel like this season is missing a soul.

For example, a few posters mentioned that Amy's Choice would result in

her unborn baby dying

, and they thought this would make very compelling TV. But it wasn't even brought up once.

The Dream Lord ( who was a great idea, until he just became

'space pollen'

), asked Amy that

if the Doctor trusted her so much, how come she doesn't know his name. That's clearly a reference to River for us, but for Amy I thought she'd at least ask the Doctor his name! *WE* know he won't tell her etc., but she doesn't know that.

A few times she's acted like she knows more and is far more comfortable with him than she should be ( adding to all the theories about her of course ).

As someone else pointed out, one of the dream worlds shows that

Amy now knows the Doctor can't always save everyone

. But that wasn't mentioned at the end, no 'this isn't playtime, it's serious, isn't it' speech.

What was the point of

Rory cutting off his pony tail? I got the feeling it was meant to be a sacrifice for him, but exactly how? Did he think it'd save them from the old people, or maybe prove it was the dream world? When he went over to look at the cot etc. I really thought it was him realising that it had to be a dream world ( 'cos maybe he thought he couldn't be so lucky to have this life or something like that ) but that didn't happen either

.

I guess, as you can see, that the episode raised a lot more questions for me than it answered. It just bothers me that the writer seem to want these questions raised, but aren't answering them! I can't help feeling ( like I've felt all season ) that if the show was 15 mins longer than scenes or ideas that were hinted at would be expanded, or even just answered or referred to in the end.

Maybe I'm just missing DT's quieter moments, but the show seems to have gone down a more lighthearted / madcap / no time to stop and explain route. Well, not lighthearted, but when something serious or sad does happen, it's never given time for it's consequences to really kick in.

Oops... rant over!

J.

jasonb

Actually, a thought just occured to me :

Did Rory cut off his ponytail to try to convince Amy to choose that world? That might make sense, he sees the cot, realises how much he wants this life, and then makes the sacrifice of cutting of the ponytail to show her he can change, and he'll do whatever it takes to have this life with her.

Of course, if that's true, was it just badly hinted at or am I just slow? Why not put a line in saying 'this is how much I want you to choose here' or something like that?

J.

Killer_banana

jasonb wrote: »

Once again, an episode that 'I enjoyed, but....'

As I've posted in the Series 5 Thread, I just feel like this season is missing a soul.

For example, a few posters mentioned that Amy's Choice would result in

her unborn baby dying

, and they thought this would make very compelling TV. But it wasn't even brought up once.

The Dream Lord ( who was a great idea, until he just became

'space pollen'

), asked Amy that

if the Doctor trusted her so much, how come she doesn't know his name. That's clearly a reference to River for us, but for Amy I thought she'd at least ask the Doctor his name! *WE* know he won't tell her etc., but she doesn't know that.

A few times she's acted like she knows more and is far more comfortable with him than she should be ( adding to all the theories about her of course ).

As someone else pointed out, one of the dream worlds shows that

Amy now knows the Doctor can't always save everyone

. But that wasn't mentioned at the end, no 'this isn't playtime, it's serious, isn't it' speech.

What was the point of

Rory cutting off his pony tail? I got the feeling it was meant to be a sacrifice for him, but exactly how? Did he think it'd save them from the old people, or maybe prove it was the dream world? When he went over to look at the cot etc. I really thought it was him realising that it had to be a dream world ( 'cos maybe he thought he couldn't be so lucky to have this life or something like that ) but that didn't happen either

.

I guess, as you can see, that the episode raised a lot more questions for me than it answered. It just bothers me that the writer seem to want these questions raised, but aren't answering them! I can't help feeling ( like I've felt all season ) that if the show was 15 mins longer than scenes or ideas that were hinted at would be expanded, or even just answered or referred to in the end.

Maybe I'm just missing DT's quieter moments, but the show seems to have gone down a more lighthearted / madcap / no time to stop and explain route. Well, not lighthearted, but when something serious or sad does happen, it's never given time for it's consequences to really kick in.

Oops... rant over!

J.

Are spoiler tags required? I'm pretty sure anyone reading this thread will be expecting spoilers anyway. I tend spoiler tag possible theories or things people won't have noticed as a precaution. Anyway...

He cut off his ponytail to prove how much he loved her. Well that's what I got from it anyway. Rory saw the ponytail as important because it made him 'stand out' in the village so he wasn't just another village doctor, he wanted to seem a bit more individual and unique. It was more of a joke than anything else. As for the looking at the cot I just presumed Rory was thinking about whether that world was real or a dream it was becoming less and less likely he would ever get to be a father.

As for the unborn child situation, it does seem a bit odd it was never brought up until you remember Doctor who is a children's show. And I know children can deal with a lot more than Who has given them credit for in the past but surely a mothers dilemma over killing her baby would be too far? I don't think children would have the emotional maturity to handle topics so serious and dark.

As for your opinion of the series so far, well I see it completely the opposite. I love Tennant but his era being darker? Really? I find this series far darker and Matt Smith may not have more 'quiet' moments but he has a lot more genuinely emotional moments and I feel the plots are farm ore developed and explained than before when the Doctor just used the sonic screwdriver for everything and we had to go along with it without proper explanation. Still I guess we look fro different things from Who so we'l just agree to disagree. :P

pixelburp

Well like the rest of ye, I thought that episode was flippin' good. It's funny how consistently the best episodes across all series have been the ones with the relatively limited premises and SFX, rather than the "world at peril" operas you often got.

It was all excellently put together, with a genuine mystery that kept you constantly guessing. Again, it was a dark premise with some smart and adult undertones to it all. As usual the banter between the leads was spot on & once again Matt Smith steals the show with his quirky performance & delivery of the lines. His wobbling down the street half-asleep was a genuine laugh-out-loud moment At this stage, I'd love to see a multi-Doctor story because the interaction between 9,10 and 11 would be faboo

As for the revelation, it certainly had a punch to it - is this the last we'll see of the Dreamlord? Hopefully not - and it highlighted in one personified lump that the Doctor still has plenty of demons. The discovery that it was just a bit of space-pollen seemed unbelievably pat to be honest, which is why I don't believe it for a second:

This episode's purpose was to emphasize that the Doctor not only has secrets, but can't always be trusted or that he can't always save everyone. He knew from the start who the Dreamlord was, but only revealed it at the last minute, quite flippantly. Maybe it was just a bit of SFX fanciness, but why did the Dreamlord behave like a hologram? So I don't think we should believe the Doctor when he says it was a bit of pollen!

Duckjob

Fantastic episode.

Like all the best Who, a great mix of pathos and humour. I loved the whole Ledworth scene, particularly the moment at the end with

Amy telling Rory - "You were dead. Mrs Poggit got you!"

I also think Matt Smith is really starting to getting comfortable in the role of the Doctor and I'm starting to really enjoy his performances.

10/10. Hope there's plenty more like this.

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

As for the revelation, it certainly had a punch to it - is this the last we'll see of the Dreamlord? Hopefully not - and it highlighted in one personified lump that the Doctor still has plenty of demons. The discovery that it was just a bit of space-pollen seemed unbelievably pat to be honest, which is why I don't believe it for a second:

This episode's purpose was to emphasize that the Doctor not only has secrets, but can't always be trusted or that he can't always save everyone. He knew from the start who the Dreamlord was, but only revealed it at the last minute, quite flippantly. Maybe it was just a bit of SFX fanciness, but why did the Dreamlord behave like a hologram? So I don't think we should believe the Doctor when he says it was a bit of pollen!

Well, I think that'd be looking at it the wrong way.


The pollen "unlocked" the dream lord from inside the Doctor, the dream lord is not the actual pollen. I instandly assumed from the end that he was dismissing it as all over while the image of the dreamlord was a reminder to him and us that despite the pollen being gone it's still and probably always will be a part of him. Again, standard comic book storytelling

GSPfan

Jasonb - Whats wrong with ya? This season and this episode were great. I think you have to be less critical and analytical when you watch this show. Its a family show. How depressing would it be if Amy started talking about killing her unborn child. If you can't enjoy that episode then what can you enjoy? That was good.

Pixelburp - I agree with ya that the best episodes are always the ones where the only thing at stake is their own lives or the lives of a small few. Leave the "Save the Planet" episodes for finales or two parters I say.

Has anyone noticed how much this season has been based on Earth or about Earth? Has Amy even visited another planet yet? I'm trying to think. Actually the Angels episode was one but DT and Rose seemed to be on Alien planets every second week.

BaconZombie

Only just started watching the episode but I think I've just heard the best quote so far:

109
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,600
Argh!

110
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,720
Never use force.
You just embarrass yourself.

111
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,560
Unless you're cross, in which case -
always use force.

112
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,960
Shall I run and get the manual?
I threw it in a supernova.

113
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,120
You threw the manual in a supernova?

114
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,000
Why? Because I disagreed with it.

115
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,800
Stop talking to me when I'm cross.

Doctor DooM

GSPfan wrote: »

Pixelburp - I agree with ya that the best episodes are always the ones where the only thing at stake is their own lives or the lives of a small few. Leave the "Save the Planet" episodes for finales or two parters I say.

Has anyone noticed how much this season has been based on Earth or about Earth? Has Amy even visited another planet yet? I'm trying to think. Actually the Angels episode was one but DT and Rose seemed to be on Alien planets every second week.

I agree with the small scale. I thought Midnight was one of the best things RTD ever did. Bearing in mind he also did Children of Earth!

Actually, if you check out old episodes of podshock, people have been complaining about too many episodes of DW being set on earth since 2005. Welcome to the club, once again

GSPfan

Ha ha. I only noticed it this week. And watching next weeks trailer I was just thinking "Earth again" .... Jesus.
It always kinda annoyed me a little that the Doctor was so obsessed with Earth until the first episode of this season when he says to the Atraxi "Well I've put a lot of work into it". Ha, I know thats pretty silly for one comment to just change my opinion but I know that feeling. Its like watching Prison Break or Heroes from the start. After season 2 they decline but you feel like you've invested a lot of time into it so you have to stick at it. And when season 4 comes around you are just praying for them to cancel it so you can be set free!

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Well, I think that'd be looking at it the wrong way.
The pollen "unlocked" the dream lord from inside the Doctor, the dream lord is not the actual pollen. I instandly assumed from the end that he was dismissing it as all over while the image of the dreamlord was a reminder to him and us that despite the pollen being gone it's still and probably always will be a part of him. Again, standard comic book storytelling

Oh I got that the pollen was only the catalyst, but even that seemed a bit pat. I dunno, maybe it was because we weren't really given much time to swallow this revelation that it seemed a bit too flippant by half: oh look it was just a strange hallucination brought on by pollen, time to go. Maybe I'm just seeing shadows were there are none.

Then again, this being Dr. Who, I wouldn't write off the Dreamlord returning as a physical being through some mcGuffin or resurrection-potion (vomit).

Banjo Fella

Killer_banana wrote: »

He cut off his ponytail to prove how much he loved her. Well that's what I got from it anyway. Rory saw the ponytail as important because it made him 'stand out' in the village so he wasn't just another village Doctor, he wanted to seem a bit more individual and unique.

Yep, that's pretty much how I saw it as well. Plus, the army of bodysnatchers were rapidly encroaching upon him and Amy, so he knew that their end was near. I'm guessing he cut off his ponytail so that if he died protecting her, she would have something symbolic to remember him by. And she does, Amy held his shorn ponytail in her hand after he had passed.

Just watched it for the second time, there. Such a good episode! A wonderful exploration of the Doctor's character.

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Then again, this being Dr. Who, I wouldn't write off the Dreamlord returning as a physical being through some mcGuffin or resurrection-potion (vomit).

With all the Valeyard-ism going on, I wouldn't be suprised if the two get connected even if that wasn't the original intention.

pixelburp

By the by, just to depress everyone enjoying this series a little, we're already at episode 7 - only 6 eps left already

BaconZombie

Just saw this on another forum:

Anybody about to make out all the text?

Stark

TARDIS
Time and Relative dimension in space
Build site: Gallifrey. Blackhole Shipyard
Type 40 build date: 1963
Approved for use by qualified time lords only
by the Shadow proclamation.
Misuse or theft of the TARDIS
will result in...

Can't make out the last few words.

gazzer

I was very pleased with myself in that about 10 minutes into the episode I guessed that both worlds were fake.

One thing though I couldnt figure out (though I suppose it would have been too easy) was why didnt the Doctor, Amy and Rory (in Leadworth world) just get into the tardis and get the doctor to see if they could determine if that world was fake by using the tardis technology.

Amy is definately acting as if she has been with the doctor a long long time.

Doctor DooM

Stark wrote: »

Type 40 build date: 1963

Guess that solves the "When is Gallifrey" debate then.

pixelburp

gazzer wrote: »

One thing though I couldnt figure out (though I suppose it would have been too easy) was why didnt the Doctor, Amy and Rory (in Leadworth world) just get into the tardis and get the doctor to see if they could determine if that world was fake by using the tardis technology.

Because if it was all based off the Doctor's psyche, then the "fake" TARDIS would have naturally gone "boop boop wibble, of course this is the real world, everything's ok!"

gazzer wrote: »

Amy is definately acting as if she has been with the doctor a long long time.

Well I don't see the problem here or anything different to previous seasons. There were lots of times the Doctor + Rose would joke about all the mad planets they visited outside of the aired episodes (in fact I distinctly remember Mickey & Jackie getting distinctly ticked-off at her incessant nattering about it). So it seems ok to me that Amy's also acting like she has been travelling for some time.

Anyway, it makes it easier for the spin-off fan fiction, books & the upcoming video games if you know that one episode doesn't directly following the next

BaconZombie

I think the date is an in-joke:

Reddit wrote:

Also of note is the Build date happens to be the date the series started. Doctor Who first appeared on BBC television at 17:15 GMT on 23 November 1963 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Guess that solves the "When is Gallifrey" debate then.

Banjo Fella

Stark wrote: »

TARDIS
Time and Relative dimension in space
Build site: Gallifrey. Blackhole Shipyard
Type 40 build date: 1963
Approved for use by qualified time lords only
by the Shadow proclamation.
Misuse or theft of the TARDIS
will result in...

Can't make out the last few words.

Apparently the last line reads "MISUSE OR THEFT OF ANY TARDIS WILL RESULT IN EXTREME PENALTIES AND POSSIBLE EXILE". Which is a lovely reminder of the Doctor having stolen his TARDIS. And we already knows he misuses and mistreats it all the time. :P

The Recliner

I liked the idea of this episode if not the execution

The wrap up at the end felt rushed, this might actually have worked better as a two parter as it would have allowed more time explore the dreams and a greater sense of danger could have been built up

I felt it was lacking a sense of danger

I am not saying they needed to spell things out for us more as I hate when shows assume people don't have the intelligence to work it out for themselves but I just felt there was something lacking and I think more of a build up to the reveal at the end would have helped this