Sligo business woman €47m in the red **Mod warning post 28**

bonzos

Interesting reading in the irish daily mail today about the directors of Sligo company Avena who cant/refusing to repay loans of €47m to ACC bank. Included in this was a personal loan for €9.5m for Mrs Gilmartin:eek:...Glad to see the paper highlighted that many small businesses and sole traders have not been paid by this company while the directors still live the high life and drive around in a fleet of merc & BMW 4x4's

UrbanSea

I didn't see the article but aparently it's deeper than that. Does it mention an ex partner of her by any chance

The Big Red Button

Is Avena the gym in Ballisodare? Or is this about a different company?

Atlantic Dawn

Is this the first Irish woman owing massive money in the country

blackiebest

I am one of the people/small business that is owed a LOT of money by this disaster. Before this thread goes any further please note that Mary Gilmartin is a Lady, who is in this terrible circumstance as a result of all that is wrong in this country. She was a very wealthy person long before the Celtic Tiger and I, as somone who is owed a respectable years salary of money, feels nothing but empathy for Mary.

Yes it is wrong, and I really know it, to leave huge debts around the place and I, for one, am paying a terrible price for her inability to pay her debts. However Mary Gilmartin is the sort of person who would give her the shirt off her back and I hold no ill-will towards her or her family.

If you want to really point fingers at the 'pricks' who caused the crazy situation we are all in then have a look upstairs in any of our banks, then look across the road towards the legal eagles. She will/is paying the price but I will never be happy untill I see ALL the most people most responsible suffer, like she is now!

Talking about the cars outside is Juvenile.

Kristopherus

bonzos wrote: »

Interesting reading in the irish daily mail today about the directors of Sligo company Avena who cant/refusing to repay loans of €47m to ACC bank. Included in this was a personal loan for €9.5m for Mrs Gilmartin:eek:...Glad to see the paper highlighted that many small businesses and sole traders have not been paid by this company while the directors still live the high life and drive around in a fleet of merc & BMW 4x4's

I wouldnt put much credence on anything that rag says :eek:

Also this news is at least 2 weeks old to the country at large, and much older to the local Sligo community.

That said, I dont see why there should be too much sympathy for anyone who walks into those situations with their eyes wide open. In her scenario the is very little difference in ambition and greed.

Kristopherus

chatterpillar wrote: »

Is Avena the gym in Ballisodare? Or is this about a different company?

That is owned and run by Mrs Gilmartin's daughter. No legal connection with the building/development company.

bonzos

blackiebest wrote: »

I am one of the people/small business that is owed a LOT of money by this disaster. Before this thread goes any further please note that Mary Gilmartin is a Lady, who is in this terrible circumstance as a result of all that is wrong in this country. She was a very wealthy person long before the Celtic Tiger and I, as somone who is owed a respectable years salary of money, feels nothing but empathy for Mary.

Yes it is wrong, and I really know it, to leave huge debts around the place and I, for one, am paying a terrible price for her inability to pay her debts. However Mary Gilmartin is the sort of person who would give her the shirt off her back and I hold no ill-will towards her or her family.

If you want to really point fingers at the 'pricks' who caused the crazy situation we are all in then have a look upstairs in any of our banks, then look across the road towards the legal eagles. She will/is paying the price but I will never be happy untill I see ALL the most people most responsible suffer, like she is now!

Talking about the cars outside is Juvenile.

Firstly im sorry about your situation, but do you not find it a bit sickening people who owe a fortune still showboat their wealth? Surely the monthly repayments on those cars could be put towards paying back people ike youself......You are totally right about the banks etc..

blackiebest

bonzos wrote: »

Firstly im sorry about your situation, but do you not find it a bit sickening people who owe a fortune still showboat their wealth? Surely the monthly repayments on those cars could be put towards paying back people ike youself......You are totally right about the banks etc..

I have been nailed by two developers. Avena were one and one other even bigger disaster in the midlands.

It does turn my stomach to see the X5 and Mercs however the way this country works prevents any kind of justice. ALL money raised from any sales/reposessions etc will go to the banks. I am an 'unsecured' creditor which means, in reality, I will never get a penny. While the Bank in this case is not in NAMA nor is it in receipt of any 'bail-out' with taxpayers money they are absolutely responsible for a substantial part of this disaster. The prick who threw millions (47 in this case) all over Sligo no longer works for the bank. He did however receive FULL redundancy, pension etc. This guy was spewing money around Sligo and neighbouring counties. Verbal promises from him both to Avena and Avenas creditors that all was fine, "Keep building, keep supplying, etc etc" as there would be no problem with money.

I am personally aware of another banker, or now ex banker, who is suing his bank for 'un-fair dismissal' having been responsible for incurring bad debts of up to 50 million for his bank. I understand he will receive appx 300k to Fuk off and drop his case! This same bank will put the likes of Mrs Gilmartin out of her home.

Sure I would like to be paid, but I do not want to see her name sullied here, out of context, by people who have no idea as to her nature/personality. I am very aware of the lifestyle the Gilmartins led, but I am also very aware of the pain that family must be feeling now and untill the gobsh1te bankers feel the same pain and the legal eagles who will soon be exposed suffer it too, then I think it is unfair to focus on her.

I can and will understand people directing their ire towards her husband, Pat, but would love to see people equally naming and highlighting all the other culprits in this sorry mess.

dardevle

blackiebest wrote: »

I can and will understand people directing their ire towards her husband, Pat, but would love to see people equally naming and highlighting all the other culprits in this sorry mess.

while i genuinely feel sorry for Mrs Gilmartin and agree that she would "give you the shirt off her back"..... the problem i have with this situation is that when you look at her husband, he will be wearing his own shirt,her shirt and the shirts off the back of many other unfortunate people....imo he's at least equally to blame along with the bank for this mess.



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blackiebest

Sound, I am not defending Pat

bonzos

In relation to Pat Gilmartin i believe that he was banned for being a bookie a few years ago! How the hell can a bank give loans to any company that this guy is involved in???? I dont think he would pay people even if he had the money. In relation to the nursing home in strandhill, is it ture that Jimmy Devins is also involved in it?

Essexboy

bonzos wrote: »

In relation to Pat Gilmartin i believe that he was banned for being a bookie a few years ago! How the hell can a bank give loans to any company that this guy is involved in???? I dont think he would pay people even if he had the money. In relation to the nursing home in strandhill, is it ture that Jimmy Devins is also involved in it?

Yes, Devins invested in Summerville. See
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/publications/RegofInterestsDáil2007.doc

I have no sympathy for Mary Gilmartin: she gave a personal guarantee but did not honour it. And Avena shortchanged their employees http://www.sligochampion.ie/temp/failed-to-make-pension-deductions-1922220.html

Having whinged that the company was short of money for its workers, she then had land at Carraroe rezoned for a private hospital - where was the finance to come from?

UrbanSea

Essexboy wrote: »

Yes, Devins invested in Summerville. See
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/publications/RegofInterestsDáil2007.doc

I have no sympathy for Mary Gilmartin: she gave a personal guarantee but did not honour it. And Avena shortchanged their employees http://www.sligochampion.ie/temp/failed-to-make-pension-deductions-1922220.html

Having whinged that the company was short of money for its workers, she then had land at Carraroe rezoned for a private hospital - where was the finance to come from?

From what I heard she was doing this all on the behalf of Pat,who couldn't obtain the finance. Could be wrong though

bonzos

Its interesting how this thread has opened up. On one hand you have this business woman and her husband(who has a colourfull past) owning €47m to ACC bank and a number of other banks also i believe,then you have people who owned smalled businesses who and are owed a small fortune defending their good name....Now if this whole business of the Gym/Swimming pool being in their daughters name is ture,they are in partnership with a local FF TD in a nursing home and they are after getting land rezoned to build another nursing home despite having "No money" the whole thing stinks to high heavens!!! This is typical of whats going on all over the country wealthy business people transferring assets into their childrens name and still living the high life dispite owing millions

blackiebest

bonzos wrote: »

Its interesting how this thread has opened up. On one hand you have this business woman and her husband(who has a colourfull past) owning €47m to ACC bank and a number of other banks also i believe,then you have people who owned smalled businesses who and are owed a small fortune defending their good name....Now if this whole business of the Gym/Swimming pool being in their daughters name is ture,they are in partnership with a local FF TD in a nursing home and they are after getting land rezoned to build another nursing home despite having "No money" the whole thing stinks to high heavens!!! This is typical of whats going on all over the country wealthy business people transferring assets into their childrens name and still living the high life dispite owing millions

I agree with all you say. I am confused as to why I am defending Mary Gilmartins name however I always found her to be a Lady, and frankly the victim (innocent or not) of circumstances and a flagrantly wreckless husband. I do feel sorry for her, I do not think it fair for her name to be tarnished here, but maybe I am just a soft git!:(

However from my shoes the real criminals are the banks adn the goons employed by them. Look at todays indo http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bank-chiefs-still-getting-topup-cash-for-pensions-2182660.html and ask how well that sits with you. People like the Gilmartins had a go and thought they had EARNED their lifestyle, these bankers live off our backs adn now our taxes!

Maybe some of you saw 'Aftershock - Ghost Estates' and saw the Owens guy who had the quarry and got into building estates, now completely broke. Ireland needs people like him, (maybe not P. Gilmartin), to get our country back on its feet.

I could name and give an account of most of the bigger developers in the region, some much better that others, but they are all f**ked to a greater or lesser degree. There are far worse than P and M Gilmartin.

Now how many bankers/td's/ lawyers etc are in the same boat? I am aware of some Lawyers who are suffering as a result in the conveyencing downturn however I think a LOT more are sh1tt1ng themselves when asked to produce the deeds behind the 'legal undertaking' they have issued.

It is an interesting thread but as I started out saying, Mary Gilmartin is a Lady. Everyone is angry at the situation this country is in. Blame ALL those responsible, especailly those hidden and protected behind Nama and our Banks/legal profession. They are STILL milking you and this country, Mary Gilmartin is not.

Wester

This whole blame the bankers lark is media-driven waffle. Toss pot journalists up to their necks in debt cause they had to have the big house etc, so they extrapolate that out and decide let's blame the banks and screw personal responsibility. What, someone stood over people with a gun and went take the money? Funnily enough, there are lots of business people still standing in the midst of a recession and why is that? Because they looked at their books and went "nah, I can't afford to take on that loan." But others knew better of course, didn't they? The boom was going to go on forever even though it was based, certainly from 2002 onwards, almost entirely on credit, i.e., pie-in-the-sky money. What we need in this country is people who make/provide something of value, not "cardboard" houses down every laneway in every small village.

bonzos

I think people in ireland give too much respect to wealthy people without looking a bit deeper into the bigger picture...True the country needs people to take risks, create jobs etc.. and if they become wealthy from it best of luck to them. But there is a culture amoung certain "business" class in ireland where you screw as much as possible out of everyone and pay nobody secure in the knowledge you are protected by a Ltd company.
Maybe if the small business people got a little more respect and this brain dead culture of ass kissing the Local BMW driving big shot who is tried up with FF TD's and lives high life despite shutting down sole traders etc..Look beyond the big cars and BS!

Pete M.

The very last feeling I have for anyone in that sort of debt, including Lady Gilmartin and her family, is sympathy.
They deserve to be where they are and it is all of their own doing.
It's them and their ilk who shafted the rest of us, don't forget that.
Someone owing €470,000 on a family home they bought during the boom which is now worth a lot less should get a lot more sympathy.

The locals know what type P Gilmartin is and nobody has any sympathy for them.I personally had a few run ins with him over the years as regards his behaviour on the roads with his BMW jeep.

lubie76

blackiebest wrote: »

I am confused as to why I am defending Mary Gilmartins name however I always found her to be a Lady, and frankly the victim (innocent or not) of circumstances and a flagrantly wreckless husband. I do feel sorry for her, I do not think it fair for her name to be tarnished here, but maybe I am just a soft git!:(

It is an interesting thread but as I started out saying, Mary Gilmartin is a Lady. Everyone is angry at the situation this country is in. Blame ALL those responsible, especailly those hidden and protected behind Nama and our Banks/legal profession. They are STILL milking you and this country, Mary Gilmartin is not.

Give it a rest! She was the one who signed her name to the forms. There is such thing as divorce in this day and age. If he's as bad as everyone says he is she should have got rid long ago and she could have had a clear conscience. She is part and parcel of the Gilmartin empire and is happy to live a life of luxury. The problem only starts with the bankers, the Gilmartins were the next link and at the end its the likes of you and me that suffer so save your sympathy for someone screwed over by these type of people like the ones who can't afford to pay their mortgage or feed their kids.

Son Of A Vidic

Does this mean her plans for developing a private hospital at Carraroe are gone out the window I wonder? Pie in the sky anyway if you ask me, Gardenhill is a well established and respected private hospital in Sligo. Besides, it also has the blue ribbon standard for an internationally accredited hospital. Even the Galway clinic is still working towards it. Anything with Pat Gilmartin paws on it is best avoided.



Don't call people names please, it's not neccessary - fozzle

bonzos

It interesting people that Pat and family are involved with...Jimmy Devins,surely it does not look good for publc representative to be in business with a chancer like Pat who had a very colourful business past long before he ever got involved in development? Then you have Pat's daughter who is married to the former head of the Sligo chamber of commerce, he seemed to be on ocean fm every other day telling the people of sligo to spend their money in the town(nothing wrong with that)however he didnt show much example by having his own wedding in a different county,so much for leading by example:rolleyes:...im sure there are plenty of good hotels in sligo who could been given the business.

blackiebest

lubie76 wrote: »

Give it a rest! She was the one who signed her name to the forms. There is such thing as divorce in this day and age. If he's as bad as everyone says he is she should have got rid long ago and she could have had a clear conscience. She is part and parcel of the Gilmartin empire and is happy to live a life of luxury. The problem only starts with the bankers, the Gilmartins were the next link and at the end its the likes of you and me that suffer so save your sympathy for someone screwed over by these type of people like the ones who can't afford to pay their mortgage or feed their kids.

A really immature post. You think you should comment on somones marrige? Get a grip.

lubie76

blackiebest wrote: »

I agree with all you say. I am confused as to why I am defending Mary Gilmartins name however I always found her to be a Lady, and frankly the victim (innocent or not) of circumstances and a flagrantly wreckless husband. I do feel sorry for her, I do not think it fair for her name to be tarnished here, but maybe I am just a soft git!:(

I think you'll find that you made the initial comment on their marriage!:rolleyes:
I don't know anything about them or their relationship except what I read here. I just made a comment as you say that this lady is a victim of her "flagrantly wreckless husband". BTW, I never done any name calling about either party.
Its just a general opinion that she or any other person in similar circumstances doesn't have to stay in a marraige if they don't want to and that includes if they suspect their spouse is involved in shady dealings.

Essexboy

blackiebest wrote: »

A really immature post. You think you should comment on somones marrige? Get a grip.

You have, I am afraid, fallen in to the typical Irish trap of confusing the person with their actions.
If he/she is nice then they cannot be bad; if they are nasty, whatever they do is wrong.

"The impartial justice meted out must involve no discrimination between those to whom we wish to be just and those to whom we do not wish to be just."
http://www.difp.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=13

bonzos

blackiebest wrote: »

I agree with all you say. I am confused as to why I am defending Mary Gilmartins name however I always found her to be a Lady, and frankly the victim (innocent or not) of circumstances and a flagrantly wreckless husband. I do feel sorry for her, I do not think it fair for her name to be tarnished here, but maybe I am just a soft git!:(

However from my shoes the real criminals are the banks adn the goons employed by them. Look at todays indo http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bank-chiefs-still-getting-topup-cash-for-pensions-2182660.html and ask how well that sits with you. People like the Gilmartins had a go and thought they had EARNED their lifestyle, these bankers live off our backs adn now our taxes!

Maybe some of you saw 'Aftershock - Ghost Estates' and saw the Owens guy who had the quarry and got into building estates, now completely broke. Ireland needs people like him, (maybe not P. Gilmartin), to get our country back on its feet.

I could name and give an account of most of the bigger developers in the region, some much better that others, but they are all f**ked to a greater or lesser degree. There are far worse than P and M Gilmartin.

Now how many bankers/td's/ lawyers etc are in the same boat? I am aware of some Lawyers who are suffering as a result in the conveyencing downturn however I think a LOT more are sh1tt1ng themselves when asked to produce the deeds behind the 'legal undertaking' they have issued.

It is an interesting thread but as I started out saying, Mary Gilmartin is a Lady. Everyone is angry at the situation this country is in. Blame ALL those responsible, especailly those hidden and protected behind Nama and our Banks/legal profession. They are STILL milking you and this country, Mary Gilmartin is not.

Just as a matter of interest has "lady" Gilmartin and her husband made any reduction to their lifestyle in an effort to repay their dept to you? Not much has changed with them as far as I can see.

fozzle

Okay, time for everyone to go have a cup of tea and calm down. I'm not seeing anything constructive going on here, just some fairly personal bitching. So cop on or leave it alone. You may consider this a warning for the lot of you, anymore pointless bitching will get infractions/bans. - fozzle

Essexboy

fozzle wrote: »

Okay, time for everyone to go have a cup of tea and calm down. I'm not seeing anything constructive going on here, just some fairly personal bitching. So cop on or leave it alone. You may consider this a warning for the lot of you, anymore pointless bitching will get infractions/bans. - fozzle

This thread is centred on one, named individual so any comments are bound to be personal.
In my view, you should close the thread now.

dardevle

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i would have no problem with the thread being closed either but if it is to remain open, perhaps those with an opinion of the lady in the op should nail their colours to the mast so to speak ...for my own sins i worked for avena for over 5 years and in that time i never had a bad word ( or heard) to say about Mrs Gilmartin and knowing what i do about the situation i would have a good deal of sympathy for her.





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bonzos

Before we close this thread in a damage limitation exercise in defence of someone who owes €47m,I would be interested if anybody here watched Sean Gallagher in the Front Line last monday night. He is starting a campaign to try and gain some rights for the small businesses and sole traders all over the country who have been destroyed by wealthy developers who are currently protected by company law....