UFO's - what do you believe?

Dave!

zenno wrote: »

Lawrence Klauss say's scientists love mysteries in this video ?

well isn't the so-called "unidentified flying object problem" a mystery.

then why will scientists not study this mystery. all they seem to do is act childish and discount that they even exist.

as some people say, scientists are more afraid to study or talk about this issue because they are afraid of been undermined in their field and also the threat of losing their job if they do so.

but it is a scientist's job to find the answers to unknown problems and also the ufo problem as well. I don't understand why they are so reluctant to study this .

so in this case scientist's are not doing their job. they have become a lazy organisation of denouncers.

Interesting video dyer

I think you'll find that astronomers spend much of their time pointing telescopes at the sky, that's a pretty good way of studying what's up there. Guess what? They're usually not the ones who see UFOs. There's a reason for that -- cos they know what they're looking at!

maninasia

Dave! wrote: »

I think you'll find that astronomers spend much of their time pointing telescopes at the sky, that's a pretty good way of studying what's up there. Guess what? They're usually not the ones who see UFOs. There's a reason for that -- cos they know what they're looking at!

What are telescopes focused on?

lolo62

Dave! wrote: »

I think you'll find that astronomers spend much of their time pointing telescopes at the sky, that's a pretty good way of studying what's up there. Guess what? They're usually not the ones who see UFOs. There's a reason for that -- cos they know what they're looking at!

astronomy is only one branch of science...astronomers are able to identify a lot of the flying objects that would be deemed 'unidentified' by others but this does not mean that et's dont exist

dyer

I decided to loosely investigate the military's role and interest in 'saucer shaped' craft and came across some intriguing information but i wasn't prepared for how quickly my endeavour would lead me into all sorts of weirdness, as if the subject didnt already have enough of it. Be prepared.. this is not an easy read! My use of wiki articles is merely for the sake of convenience of this post. I've quoted relevant passages but feel free to delve deeper with the links provided if you so wish.

Having read all of this, i am certainly no closer to understanding any of it than when i first began.. what you find is layer upon layer of lies, deceit, deception.. while at other times, just plain madness and science fiction.. and all of this and more they would have us believe, is in the name of our security. It most certainly is a sad state of affairs.

I started off by looking at prototypes of 'known' saucer / disc shaped military aircraft, some of which are mentioned on this wiki. Most of these designs were functional experimantal vehicles with circular winged designs, powered by the humble propeller, with the exception of John Frost's Avrocar which utilised a horizontal rotor to provide lift using the Coandă effect.

The Coandă effect is the tendency of a fluid jet to be attracted to a nearby surface. The principle was named after Romanian aerodynamics pioneer Henri Coandă, who was the first to recognize the practical application of the phenomenon in aircraft development. The Coandă effect is a result of entrainment of ambient fluid around the fluid jet. When a nearby wall does not allow the surrounding fluid to be pulled inwards towards the jet (i.e. to be entrained), the jet moves towards the wall instead. The fluid of the jet and the surrounding fluid should be essentially the same substance (a gas jet into a body of gas or a liquid jet into a body of liquid). In one application, a jet of air is blown over the upper surface of an airfoil, which can have a strong influence on the overall lift, especially at high angles of attack when the flow would otherwise separate (stall)

"Funding for the Avrocar was withdrawn and it officially ceased production in 1961. It was generally considered "an abject failure: it couldn't lift itself safely more than a few feet off the ground, and its bulbous design limiting high-speed performance accompanied by unbearable heat and screaming exhaust noise, made it impractical for the military. Although considered a technical failure, its design would be prophetic: it was a rubber skirt shy of being one of the world's first hovercraft, the Saunders Roe SR.N1 also taking off in 1959", however, certainly a far cry from the supersonic capabilities its inventor had envisioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar



It is worth mentioning that the Coandă effect has since been used to develop some modern aircraft allowing for more lift and stability particularly at low flying speeds, it also some practical applications in various other engineering processes.

examples include :
The Antonov An-72

The Boeing YC14, predecessor of the iconic Boeing C-17 Globemaster III



Apart from the Avrocar and some later VTOL projects, the trail of saucer like objects connected with the military appears to run cold. This inevitably lead me to look at some of the current and previously classified black projects.

Previously classified
B-2 Spirit stealth bomber
Boeing Bird of Prey technology demonstrator
F-117 Nighthawk stealth ground-attack aircraft
KH-11 KENNAN reconnaissance satellite
SR-71 Blackbird Mach 3.3 very high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
Lockheed CL-400 Suntan high-altitude, high-speed reconnaissance prototype
Lockheed U-2 very high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft
Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel
Lockheed Martin Polecat unmanned aerial vehicle
Northrop Tacit Blue
Operation Cyclone
RQ-3 Dark Star high altitude reconnaissance UAV

Currently classified, but speculated
Misty and Enhanced Imaging System spy satellites
X-41 Common Aero Vehicle military spaceplane
SR-72 stealth reconnaissance UAV[2]
SR-91 Aurora hypersonic spy aircraft (unconfirmed)
Area 51
Stealth Blimp Reconnaissance platform

No flying saucers here! Well, at least none that we know about.

As a curious sidenote i got sidetracked reading about Electromagnetic Pulses.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_bomb

Anyway..

The first link i made with Nazi UFOs also happened to be related to the Coandă effect and an Austrian scientist by the name of Viktor Schauberger and his "Repulsine" machine.

World War II
In 1934 Viktor met with Hitler, and had discussions about fundamental principles of agriculture, forestry and water engineering.[citation needed] Schauberger is believed to have lent his ideas in order to aid the German Reich. Although whether this was under duress or willingly is still a matter of debate;[citation needed] it appears that his aim was to see this theories put to the test (he had offered his log flume designs to several countries). There is no indication that he supported Nazism, and his private feelings about the Nazis seem to have been disdainful. At any rate, his later (post-1941) work for the regime was enforced by the threat of execution, Schauberger being a KZ prisoner at that time.

In 1941, an intrigue caused by the Viennese Association of Engineers [citation needed] resulted in Schauberger's enforced confinement in a mental hospital in Mauer-Öhling, under continuous observation by the SS. [citation needed] In Augsburg, Schauberger worked with Messerschmitt on engine cooling systems and was in correspondence with designer Heinkel about aircraft engines.[citation needed] In 1944, Schauberger continued to develop his Repulsine machine at the Technical College of Engineering at Rosenhügel in Vienna. By May 1945 a prototype had been constructed.

With some more digging around i came across some scale model prototypes being built and tested by some motivated individuals under these principals.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/repulsin.htm
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/gfsuav/index.htm
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/gfsuav/nxx.htm

Some info on the latter conceptual design of the 'GFS-UAV N-XX' quoted below, there doesn't seem to be any more updates on this project as of 2006.

There are different means for generating an asymmetrical flow with a GDP skin, this has already been fully tested by the Industrial Plasma Engineering Group of the UTK Plasma Sciences Laboratory :

- A simple OAUGDP panel which uses only the paraelectric body forces, this gives an acceleration of the fluid, up to 10 m/s,
- An EHD plasma convection driven by DC ion mobility drift, this gives an acceleration of the fluid, up to 100 m/s,
- A peristaltic EHD plasma acceleration which gives an acceleration of the fluid, up to 480 m/s....

For more informations you may read the paper 6P-67"Electrodynamically induced airflow in one atmosphere uniform glow discharge surface plasma" by J. Reece Roth, presented at the 25th IEEE International Conference on Plasma Science ( June 1-4, 1998, Raleigh, North Carolina )

An excerpt of this paper can be read at Physics of Plasma online,
http://pop.aip.org/resource/1/phpaen/v10/i5/p2117_s1?isAuthorized=no

The development of the One Atmosphere Uniform Glow Discharge Plasma has made it possible to cover the wings and fuselage of aircraft with a thin layer of glow discharge plasma at low energy cost. This plasma layer provides, through Lorentzian collisions, a purely electrohydrodynamic coupling between an electric field and the neutral gas in the boundary layer. This coupling is strong enough to cause aerodynamically significant acceleration and manipulation of the boundary layer and free stream flow, including re-attachment of flow to an airfoil at high angles of attack, and the peristaltic induction of neutral gas flow by a traveling electrostatic wave on the surface of a flat plate. © 2003 American Institute of Physics.

Interesting ideas perhaps.. but still a very long way from the capabilities and characteristics displayed by many UFOs over the last century.

There are all sorts of nice swirly things to look at on this page : http://www.evgars.com/new_page_1.htm unfortunately i dont speak russian.. maybe ill google translate some of it later but i threw it in there for good measure anyway.

There seems to be alot of info accumulated here for anyone interested in Nazi UFOs in particular.. feel free to read of your own accord

http://naziufomythos.greyfalcon.us/index.html

Which soon lead me to this resource http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/disclaimer.html

After reading through the disconcerting disclaimer, for instance "The very first disc programs to be encountered here deal with the occult element that pervaded the entire Third Reich from its inception. One thing I will state with absolute certainly is that you CANNOT separate the occult from the Third Reich. The disc technology that originated in Germany post-WW1 all started with a psychic medium named Maria Orsic of Zagreb who was a Thule Society member. She is responsible for all of the occult disc development programs starting with the JFM in 1922 until the Andromeda-Gerät of 1945.".. theres actually some interesting stuff to be found in the latter sections pertaining to the different types of projects undertaken by the germans.

I decided to do a search on Maria Orsic and this is what i found..

Maria Orsitsch also spelled: Oršić, Ortisch, Orschitsch, Orsic; born 31. October 1895 in Zagreb, Donji Grad; missing since 1945) Marija Oršić - Vril medium

...what follows next could well be the long lost volume of a scientologists' handbook!

Vril is a substance described in Edward Bulwer-Lytton's 1871 novel The Coming Race, which was later reprinted as Vril: The Power of the Coming Race. The novel is an early example of science fiction. However, many early readers believed that its account of a superior subterranean master race and the energy-form called "Vril" was accurate, to the extent that some theosophists accepted the book as truth. Furthermore, since 1960 there has been a conspiracy theory about a secret Vril Society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril

Maria Orsitsch, also known as Maria Orsic, was a famous medium who later became the leader of the Vril Society. She was born on 31. October 1895 in Zagreb. Her father was a Croatian and her mother was a German from Vienna.

Vril Society
The Vril Society was formed by a group of female psychic mediums led by the Thule Gesellschaft medium Maria Orsitsch (Orsic) of Zagreb, who have received communication from Aryan aliens living on Alpha Cen Tauri, in the Aldebaran system. Allegedly, these aliens had visited Earth and settled in Sumeria, and the word Vril was formed from the ancient Sumerian word "Vri-Il" ("like god"). A second medium was known only as Sigrun, a name etymologically related to Sigrune, a Valkyrie and one of Wotan's nine daughters in Norse legend.

Aldebaran
The solar system of Aldebaran is 68 light-years from Earth, and two inhabited planets which constitute the Realm of Sumeran orbit around their sun. The inhabitants of this solar system are subdivided into masters, White God-like people (Aryans) and other different human races. These latter developed because of climatic changes on the individual planets, and were the result of a degeneration of the God-like people. These mutants came to have a spiritual development inferior to the God- like people. The more the races mixed together, the more their spiritual development was degraded. Consequently, when the sun (Aldebaran) began to expand, they were no longer able to make interplanetary voyages like their ancestors; it had become impossible for them to leave their planets. Thus the inferior races, totally dependent on the masters, came to be evacuated in spaceships and taken to other habitable planets. In spite of the differences, there was respect between these two races, they did not encroach upon each other’s living space (in contrast to Earth).

The race of the masters, the White God-like people, had started to colonize other planets similar to Earth 500 million years ago, following the expansion of the Aldebaran sun and the growing heat resulting from it, which made the planets uninhabitable. It was said that they colonized the planet Mallona (also called Maldek, Marduk, or Phaeton by the Russians) in our solar system, which existed at that time between Mars and Jupiter, where the asteroids are found today. After that, Mars, of which the great pyramid cities and the well-known Martian face, photographed in 1976 by the Viking probe, bear witness to the high level of development of its inhabitants. From there, in that era, it was assumed that the God-like people of Sumeran Aldebaran came to Earth for the first time. Old traces of a petrified shoe about 500 million years old, with a trilobite petrified together with the sole of that shoe, bear witness to it. That primitive fish lived on Earth then, and disappeared 400 million years ago.

The Vril Society members thought that the Aldebaranians landed later on, when the Earth became slowly habitable, in Mesopotamia, and that they formed the dominant caste of the Sumerians. These Aldebaranians were called White God-people. Moreover, the Vril telepaths received the following information: the Sumerian language was not only identical to that of the Aldebaranians, but it also had tones similar to German, and the frequency of the two languages was almost identical.

Does this correspond with reality? Let us say simply that the construction drawings and the technical data received by the telepaths - no matter where they came from - were so precise that the most fantastic idea ever conceived by man was born: the building of a machine for flight to the beyond! The concept of an "other science" mentally matured (today one would use the term "alternative forms of energy"). It was three years before the project got under way. In that first phase of an "other technology" or an "other science" Dr W. O. Schumann, a member of the Thule and Vril Societies, gave a lecture at the Faculty of Science in Munich.
Vril documents mention these telepathic messages had their origin in Aldebaran, a solar system 68 light-years away in the constellation Taurus. She had two piles of papers: one with the Templar script, the other with a legible writing. Maria suspected the second pile would be written in an ancient eastern language and therefore she could be aided by the “Panbabylonists”, a circle close to the Thule society which was integrated by Hugo Winckler, Peter Jensen, Friedrich Delitzsch and others. It turned out that the apparently misterious language was actually ancient Summerian and hence the language of the ancient Babylonian culture founders. Sigrun, from the Vril gesellschaft helped translate the language and decipher the strange mental images of a circular flight machine.

yes.. indeed.

seanpjs93

Well I do believe in UFOs because if it's an object that is flying and you have no clue what it is it is technically a UFO.

In the alien sense I doubt we're alone in the universe, they say there's hundreds of billions of galaxies out there is it possible to have that amount of space and no life at all apart from us? We may never know, but it is interesting stuff and I for one would love to meet an alien

dyer

considering the small tiny fraction of matter that makes up the universe that we can see.. i can only wonder what kind of things might exist in the the other 99% that we can only dream about.

Ziycon

dyer wrote: »

considering the small tiny fraction of matter that makes up the universe that we can see.. i can only wonder what kind of things might exist in the the other 99% that we can only dream about.

I was reading a book recently and it was suggested that everything we know and see is only 4% of the universe, the other 96% is 'dark' matter mainly and other things.

dyer

Im going to dredge through this whole topic and compile the interesting stuff i found and what was shared with me, im quite sure i said some stupid things along the way, but sure, thats how you learn isnt it

zenno

Project hessdalen seems to be still on-going with sightings, and many scientists 'about time' are studying this phenomena seriously.

Anyone interested in this unusual phenomena should contact project hessdalen scientists for updates in relation to spectrum analysis and recordings and pictures.

Just for people that are not familiar with project hessdalen, it is in Norway and it has seen some amazing Aerial phenomena in it's time...

http://www.hessdalen.org/index_e.shtml

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDK96oh0jTY

dyer

i remember researching that case a while back.. they actually got real scientists up there and got equipment from SETI etc to see if they could figure out what was going on, and they pretty much said, what they were seeing was pretty much outside of the realm of physics and that there was a lot to be learnt from what they observed. How many years later, people still arent paying any attention.

zenno

According to Carl Nally there seems to be a lot of UFO sightings at dublin airport, one UFO he said was that a plane had to divert around a cloud with a solid object inside it.

Source: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-Irish-pilots-at-risk-from-aliens-claims-UFO-expert-205206701.html

okioffice84

He added: “A detective garda got footage of a triangular-shaped flying object shooting beams into the ground in Dunboyne, Co Meath, on his mobile phone.”

That 'footage' was BS as far as I remember.

Nally founded UPRI in 1998 with fellow UFO enthusiast Dermot Butler. They believe that the 1968 Tuskar Rock air tragedy, which killed 61 people, was caused by aliens. Nally and Butler wrote a book, called 'States of Denial,' about the incident, in which an Aer Lingus plane mysteriously crashed off the Wexford coast.

If this is true; Nally is a crank and deserves no further attention.

EDIT: I just Googled him, he is a crank.

zenno

okioffice84 wrote: »

He added: “A detective garda got footage of a triangular-shaped flying object shooting beams into the ground in Dunboyne, Co Meath, on his mobile phone.”

That 'footage' was BS as far as I remember.

Nally founded UPRI in 1998 with fellow UFO enthusiast Dermot Butler. They believe that the 1968 Tuskar Rock air tragedy, which killed 61 people, was caused by aliens. Nally and Butler wrote a book, called 'States of Denial,' about the incident, in which an Aer Lingus plane mysteriously crashed off the Wexford coast.

If this is true; Nally is a crank and deserves no further attention.

EDIT: I just Googled him, he is a crank.

I remember Nally wouldn't release the video to the public as he wanted people to pay and go to his conference to see it and i remember that caused a lot of problems for him as that footage should have been shown for free instead of trying to make money from it, which makes me think he's not a credible investigator.

okioffice84

zenno wrote: »

I remember Nally wouldn't release the video to the public as he wanted people to pay and go to his conference to see it and i remember that caused a lot of problems for him as that footage should have been shown for free instead of trying to make money from it, which makes me think he's not a credible investigator.

BS artist cashing on on the gullibility or in the case of the UFO footage, the curiosity of others. Annoying.

mickmackey1

well 20 years ago you couldn't switch on the tv without some ufo programme appearing, thats all stopped now... whatever it was these witnesses were seeing, expert or otherwise, there has been no concrete, visible consequences from any of it - there must statistically be other life out there but no evidence of such has ever been produced throughout recorded history.

dyer

You obviously haven't been doing your homework.. television, i'm afraid to say, doesn't constitute. The sad thing is, there is tonnes of viable information out there, it just hasn't been compiled in any kind of legitimate or categorical way because most people (scientists especially) won't touch it with a long pole. It's not that they don't want to, but the stigma that still surrounds this topic quite literally means suicide in terms of your career. That's how serious the scientific community considers the subect of ufos. It's ironic really, considering scientific study should focus on what's unknown and prove it to be otherwise, that's real science, not deducing it's all crazy simply because that's what they or anyone else 'thinks' without having ever studied or especially, having experienced the phenomenon. If people had any notion about the history of the sciences, they wouldn't put so much faith in it, there are many things that never would have happend that changed the world in the way we experience it today..things the scientific community regarded as nonsense, if wasn't for those who chose to work on the fringes of what they knew and believed to be true. Science is fallible.. just like any human can be. Afterall, Einstein was a postman

Perhaps all those scientists or people who believe in God or a higher being should question their beliefs when they are choosing to ignore a very real physical phenomenon that is presenting and showing itself here right now, but choose to stay quiet and still worship something theyve never seen, and yet base their entire life values around it... without any rational reasoning whatsoever, while mocking the latter. We all grew up with ufos/aliens in our lives as some form of entertainment, and most people continue to believe it's simply a form of entertainment, the learned believe they are just more crack pot conspiracy theories from amateurs or crazy hacks who don't know what they're talking about, while repeatedly disregarding the evidence and countless testimonies of people who have so much more weight resting on their credentials than they could ever hope to have.

I'll say it once, and i probably have said it before, but until you see it for yourself.. you have no idea what you're talking about.. what these things are, whether theyre extraterrestrial or some form of organic life on our own earth we have so far failed to identify or who knows what.. as far as i am.. and many others are concerned, it's no longer a joke, it should be a matter of real scientific study.

Just to add, i always find it intriguing how we pretend to know so much about the external world, when we struggle to even know ourselves and each other and what makes us who we are.

zenno

Part 1

Part 2: Starts @ 43:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=numN2zUnWi0

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Kald4UMqWxk

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gUysbjDJbM&feature=player_embedded

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caHvJyN_GRM&feature=player_embedded

Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7YyhKfRwoU&feature=player_embedded

The rest are available on youtube.

Myrddin

Whats the story with those meetings, who's on the panel & who are they aimed at?

zenno

EnterNow wrote: »

Whats the story with those meetings, who's on the panel & who are they aimed at?

They are aimed at the government, congress & military to disclose information about ufo's and free energy sources.

Most ufo investigators from the uk and U.S.A will be talking to retired congress members on the issue above. Also a lot of retired military, pilots, and government members also astronauts will be putting their case forward as to what they seen in regards to UFO's.

Too many people to name.

The Disclosure Project is a research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 500 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.

Steven Macon Greer (June 28, 1955) is an American medical doctor and ufologist who founded the Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CSETI) and The Disclosure Project, which seeks the disclosure of suppressed UFO information.

Greer founded the Centre for the Study of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence in 1990 to create a diplomatic and research-based initiative to contact extra-terrestrial civilizations. In 1993 Greer founded The Disclosure Project, a nonprofit research project, whose goal is to disclose to the public the government’s alleged knowledge of UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and advanced energy and propulsion systems.The Disclosure Project was allegedly founded in an effort to grant amnesty to government whistle-blowers willing to violate their security oaths by sharing insider knowledge about UFOs.He claims to have briefed CIA director James Woolsey that same year.

In October 1994 Greer appeared in Larry King's TV special The UFO Coverup?.In 1995, Greer was working as a physician at the department of emergency medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital,where he was chairman.

In 1997, Greer along with other members of CSETI, including Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell, made a presentation at a background briefing for members of Congress. In 1998 Greer gave up his career as an emergency room physician, in favor of the Disclosure Project.

In May 2001, Greer held a press conference at the National Press Club in D.C that featured "20 retired Air Force, Federal Aviation Administration and intelligence officers". According to a 2002 report in the Oregon Daily Emerald, Greer has gathered 120 hours of testimony from various government officials on the topic of UFOs, including astronaut Gordon Cooper and a Brigadier General. That year, Greer appeared on the radio show Coast to Coast AM.

Greer was the keynote speaker for the 2008 International Conference on Science and Consciousness held in Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA.

mickmackey1

It is pretty weird that at least 3 of the Right Stuff guys (Aldrin, Cooper & Mitchell) seem to believe in ufos, I thought these guys were supposed to be the brightest of the bright

zenno

mickmackey1 wrote: »

It is pretty weird that at least 3 of the Right Stuff guys (Aldrin, Cooper & Mitchell) seem to believe in ufos, I thought these guys were supposed to be the brightest of the bright

They are, they just seen some very strange stuff in space and decided to talk about it.

Just because an intelligent person see's something very strange and reports it doesn't make them less intelligent for doing so.

maninasia

It's not that weird if you think about it. Astronauts get a unique perspective on the Earth and they have also done things that were thought by many to be impossible in their lifetime.
Each of those astronauts mentioned have different views on UFOs , they are certainly not of the same mind.

There may be one other reason, they participated in testing of cutting edge military equipment and space vehicles (usually they started as test pilots, sometimes on supersonic vehicles), if UFOs are really some type of intelligent extraterrestrial probes, they may have had an interest in that. There were many reports made around nuclear testing areas and missile sites such as White sands (missile testing program centre). Their professional careers peaked during UFO waves, I don't know is that a coincidence or not.

http://www.nicap.org/true-mc.htm
Navy Officer Tells
HOW SCIENTISTS TRACKED A FLYING SAUCER
by
Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, USN

Lantus

The idea of aliens is interesting and may well be true. Currently there is no more evidence to support it than god or jesus so while it may be true I would not advocate dedicating any time to it. It is metaphysics until proven otherwise.

One of the problems with discussing aliens is that we project our own cultural experiences into the subject. On the one hand people like the idea of beings that are millions of years more advanced than us and have technology so far advanced they can traverse the reaches of space and time.

But then they always seem to want to explore a farmers bottom or fly around for no apparent reason.

A truly advanced species like this would have nothing in common with us and would have nothing to say to us whatsoever. Its our ego's that love the idea that somehow they are here for us and we are special.

You dont see people on this planet visiting primitive tribes, why? Because there is no frame of reference, nothing in common and nothing to be learned. Even on the same planet we are so far removed from such people there is no incentive to 'visit' them. If you did would you inspect their bottom?

2000 years ago any unexplained event was the work of God, today its aliens, tomorrow it may be something else. When Mankind has educated himself more we will look back on our ignorance and wonder how we could of been so stupid to say and believe the things we did.

maninasia

Its our ego's that love the idea that somehow they are here for us and we are special.

I think we are special, Earth is obviously special in the solar system. There may be life on other planets of the solar system or moons, but it seems so far that Earth is the only one with a diverse ecosystem of microbe, plants and animals.

You dont see people on this planet visiting primitive tribes, why? Because there is no frame of reference, nothing in common and nothing to be learned. Even on the same planet we are so far removed from such people there is no incentive to 'visit' them. If you did would you inspect their bottom?

Anthropologists would be out of a job then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology

How about this?

'One picture is worth a thousand words'

'They should be free to choose to make contact or not'

'We have to protect the land and keep out invaders'

Myrddin

Lantus wrote: »

The idea of aliens is interesting and may well be true. Currently there is no more evidence to support it than god or jesus so while it may be true I would not advocate dedicating any time to it. It is metaphysics until proven otherwise.

I wouldn't agree with that, if any would be aliens are physical, biological entities...there's enough evidence in the fact that our planet is filled with physical, biological entities, to warrant believing that the chances are we are not alone & if they can exist in one place, then they can exist in many places.

maninasia

The way I always argue this point is if you see a fish in the sea do you think it's the only fish in the ocean?

No. That would be stupid.

If you see a tree on the farm do you see it's the only tree on the land?

No. That would be stupid.

If you see all the life on planet Earth is that the only life in the galaxy on planets?

No. That would be stupid.

It's a maxim of biological things, you see one, there's usually about a billion more floating around the corner somewhere (slightly exagerrated but you get my point) :cool: . Not only a billion of those things, but a bunch of other stuff eating it, being eaten or generally hanging around doing nothing.


It doesn't make any sense to say 'ignore an interesting hypothesis' because we don't know the answer. This is not a metaphysical question, this is a real live IN YOUR FACE BLOOD AND GUTS QUESTION.

Lantus

maninasia wrote: »

The way I always argue this point is if you see a fish in the sea do you think it's the only fish in the ocean?

No. That would be stupid.

If you see a tree on the farm do you see it's the only tree on the land?

No. That would be stupid.

If you see all the life on planet Earth is that the only life in the galaxy on planets?

No. That would be stupid.

It's a maxim of biological things, you see one, there's usually about a billion more floating around the corner somewhere (slightly exagerrated but you get my point) :cool: . Not only a billion of those things, but a bunch of other stuff eating it, being eaten or generally hanging around doing nothing.


It doesn't make any sense to say 'ignore an interesting hypothesis' because we don't know the answer. This is not a metaphysical question, this is a real live IN YOUR FACE BLOOD AND GUTS QUESTION.

Again I must point out that there could well be life out there, the universe is a big place. But there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Until there is it is just speculation.

IF all the sightings have some truth in them then what is the purpose? Why bother aircraft and fly randomly around? Is that really the workings of a hyper intelligent species?

Also, how can it be 'obvious' that earth is special when we have almost no knowledge of the universe as a whole? Again that is just our cultural perspective and what we are generally told as we grow up. To an outside culture it could be a very insignificant or an unhospitable place and not worth much in terms of scenery or resource value.

"The question is not whether there is intelligent life out there, the question is, whether there is intelligent life down here." Jacque Fresco

maninasia

There is possibly evidence that we don't recognize as such.

Currently there is no reason to prefer the option 'life begin on Earth' to the option 'life begain elsewhere'.

None. In fact I tend to favour panspermia for various reasons as to how life got started here. So to say there is 'no evidence' is not really true.

It's at least 50:50 with the evidence we have , through the extremely early start of life on Earth. This is not an exagerration, ask any scientist in this field.

Of course not all UFO reports are aliens fling around. The question is though, are a rare few reports the real deal?

It's a definite possibility.

Steve012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvR1FzwfKNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBkLHQFAPJ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

Enlightening... Studied myself for 12 years,

SicklySweet

I believe. It's stupid to think that we're the only ones here. And if we discovered life elsewhere, wouldn't we have NASA checking on it? Have an experience (or so i was told) of a Level 6 (apparently there's levels) haven't checked them myself, but i once dreamed of aliens taking me and operating on me, woke up and didn't think anything of it. Few days later, discovered that my dream may have potentially been real. Dreamed they operated on my stomach and to the northwest of my bellybutton had a triangle shaped cut. Apparently they do that. No other explanation for it either. Spoke on another forum about it and someone said that the aliens don't like it when you speak of what they do. Needless to say, was a bit of a scene when i discovered a stretchmark began to cover the triangle scar!

Even so, if all above was a coincidence, I stand by my second and third sentence