UFO's - what do you believe?

maccored

maninasia wrote: »

Where are you getting the report that he claims to have seen it twice?

Jan 26th 1987:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20095509,00.html

More intriguing is what Terauchi's crew, copilot Takanori Tamefuji and flight engineer Yoshio Tsukuda, saw or didn't see. Both sighted a peculiar light tracking their plane, but neither witnessed the closer encounters with the UFO.

(Big difference between seeing a light and a ufo.)

To date the FAA takes the position that while Terauchi is a responsible pilot, there is scant evidence to corroborate his strange sighting. But the captain is not done with UFOs. Just last week, flying a similar cargo mission from Europe to Anchorage, he said it happened again. "Please record this," he radioed air traffic control excitedly, lapsing partly into Japanese. "Irregular lights, looks like a space ship." This time there were no unexplained radar contacts, though Terauchi's cockpit companions (a different crew from flight 1628's) again were uncertain as to what, if anything, had happened.

maninasia

Fair play for looking around at discrepancies. It could be that the pilot is a bit of a wishful thinker. But it deserves more research.

First, he is correct that many pilots would be hesitant to come out and say what it actually was. Plus Asians, especially Japanese, don't 'chatter' excitedly in cockpits. They also have a strict hierarchy system, or they did at the time. That could point to the fact that they were afraid to show the pilot in a bad light or simply were doing their job as they were assigned. Hard to know really. They often don't tell you what they think, they tell you what you want to know or what will keep them in a job!

And let's face it, if you actually did see a UFO (or think you did) over a certain spot you would certainly be primed to jump on something that looked like it again in the same spot, even just for a second. Since he doesn't seem to have claimed openly about the second sighting he may have been embarrassed at jumping the gun (we all guilty of doing this).

I can't find any other reference that he claimed this to see something again but will look.
EDIT- Here is a very detailed discussion, seems that video conversation has been heavily embellished.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1259993

maybebabie

I have only one comment to make: I'm a believer and Trust No-one.

;-)

maccored

i think this is the area ufologists should be looking at:

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/07/26/4756559-millions-of-earths-talk-causes-a-stir

dyer

sorry - but can you back that up?

ive been searching for the data but cant find it right now, i might be mixing it up with another case but im pretty sure this is the one in question. one of the air traffic controllers was interviewed later and told how 'the men in black' arrived and confiscated all the evidence.. but they didnt get all of it and he publically released whatever he had, including the cockpit recordings. there was some 40 minutes of recorded radar. ufo's seem to have the ability to appear and disappear from radar at will, so it was a significant case in that regard. if i come across it again ill be sure to post.. im pretty certain the interview i mentioned is within one of the documentary links i posted earlier in this thread.

i just came across another case when i was searching for that info about the japanese airlines incident..

Chinese scientists 'filmed UFO for 40 minutes'
The UFO world is alive with speculation that China is about to reveal details of startling and detailed footage of an unidentified flying object taken during the solar eclipse on July 22.

Scientists at the Purple Mountain Observatory in Nanjing are reported to have confirmed that they filmed a UFO during the eclipse for 40 minutes. They say that they will spend the next 12 months studying the footage before drawing any conclusions.

The director of the observatory, Ji Hai-sheng, told sina.com that scientists would not be speculating publicly on the nature of what was captured on film until it had been properly studied.

He added:"'Purple Mountain Observatory and Chinese Academy of Sciences said that during the July 22 total solar eclipse observation, China had discovered near the sun, by observing staff, an unidentified object, it's physical nature remains to be further studied.

"Currently manpower is being organized to deal with this data, complete the data analysis and reveal the scientific results and this will take at least one year's time to finalise."

The incident follows a series of UFO sightings in China which culminated in an object being captured on film by students in Deqing. The footage, which was featured on Chinese television, appears to show the object repeatedly changing shape after initially appearing as a glowing blue sphere.

ps. thanks for that tedtalk maccored, very interesting stuff..

maccored

to me, theres two different sides to the whole ufo things. 1) Is there other life in the universe/galaxies/out there somewhere and 2) do some of those life forms visit earth.

For 1), I would have to speculate that ther HAS to be other forms of life outside this planet. Theres just too much stuff out there for it to be a statstic no happening.

For 2) though, I really doubt any of these lifeforms have ever visited here - mainly due to the vastness of space and how long it takes to get from a to b

I think Hawkings had a very valid point when he said that if there were aliens visiting us, they would need to be very technologically superior to us to be able to actually find their way to earth in the first place and more like as not, would be more intent on robbing the place than being peaceful alien benfactors of any kind.

maninasia

maccored wrote: »

to me, theres two different sides to the whole ufo things. 1) Is there other life in the universe/galaxies/out there somewhere and 2) do some of those life forms visit earth.

For 1), I would have to speculate that ther HAS to be other forms of life outside this planet. Theres just too much stuff out there for it to be a statstic no happening.

For 2) though, I really doubt any of these lifeforms have ever visited here - mainly due to the vastness of space and how long it takes to get from a to b

I think Hawkings had a very valid point when he said that if there were aliens visiting us, they would need to be very technologically superior to us to be able to actually find their way to earth in the first place and more like as not, would be more intent on robbing the place than being peaceful alien benfactors of any kind.

Look at my comment earlier where I explained that space is not 'vast' to an advanced civilisation, at least the Milky Way galaxy is not. Time/Space issues are negated by close to speed of light travel and immortal lives (artificial intelligence) and mass replication. A biological based entity would have far more limitations than robotic entities (or the next generation of intelligent life-form after robots). Robotic entities will spread faster and last longer. They will outcompete a biological civilisation. If there are civilisations as you argue it makes far more sense that many of them have passed through this area already and should be in the vicinity. This is simply the logical conclusion of point (1) above. Civilisations expand due to internal and external competition (just like on earth), also any species that expands into space doesn't really have any limits to spread through the entire galaxy. It would take an advanced civilisation travelling at the speed of light and replicating as it went about 1 million years to spread through the milky way (the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across in diameter). The Milky Way is 12 billion years old! Looking at these statistics my logic is sound.

This is only drawing on the development of life on Earth as we know it. It gives us a basis to start. It's more reasonable to assume that life is formed from many different ways that we are not familiar with, because life is just molecular evolution. It's certainly possible there could be plasma based life-forms or other molecular based life forms unfamiliar to us, in fact it's highly likely....again from your point (1) above.

There's also no clear reason to think that they would 'rob' the place, we don't know their intentions or their status. There's also no clear reason to think of them as peaceful benefactors.

That is a by-product of your human centered thinking. Hawkings, while a great physicist, is just making a quick and dare I say lazy assumption. If he was thinking more clearly he should acknowledge that the likeliehood is FAR HIGHER that aliens already know of our existence than don't know of our existence. If they exist they have probably been around for a VERY VERY VERY long time (millions/billions of years) and SHOULD HAVE EXPLORED THE GALAXY THOROUGHLY already, again it can all be predicted by the simple statistics above. If you think that alien civilisations most likely exist, then you should also see that hey are almost certainly in our backyard already for a very long time!

maccored

We have no idea just how big space is, yet you tell me its easy to traverse. We're talking a lot bigger than the milky way btw, so I really cant see how you can use that line as if its going to convince anyone of anything.

really - lets just stick to what we know here, and not what you might wish to be true.

There's also no clear reason to think that they would 'rob' the place, we don't know their intentions or their status. There's also no clear reason to think of them as peaceful benefactors.

You seem to sit on the fence here

That is a by-product of your human centered thinking.

yet you act the psychologist.

If you arent saying they are hostle and you arent saying they are peaceful then a) what are you saying? and b) what exactly is a 'a by-product of your human centered thinking' - what are you referring to what you say that?

maccored

maninasia wrote: »

It would take an advanced civilisation travelling at the speed of light and replicating as it went about 1 million years to spread through the milky way (the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across in diameter). The Milky Way is 12 billion years old! Looking at these statistics my logic is sound.

yes - that has really convinced me. Not only are these aliens 'advanced' but they also live to be at least a million. Yeah, brilliant.

maccored

maninasia wrote: »

If they exist they have probably been around for a VERY VERY VERY long time (millions/billions of years) and SHOULD HAVE EXPLORED THE GALAXY THOROUGHLY already, again it can all be predicted by the simple statistics above. If you think that alien civilisations most likely exist, then you should also see that hey are almost certainly in our backyard already for a very long time!

eh?

you can prove aliens visit the earth because the mily way is approx 100,000 light years in diameter? You arent really looking for proof of aliens really - you're just trying to tell me they exist.

Im sticking to what I said, as I think its a bridge too far to start claiming that aliens live in our backyard. it isnt the most logical of answers.

maninasia

maccored wrote: »

yes - that has really convinced me. Not only are these aliens 'advanced' but they also live to be at least a million. Yeah, brilliant.

I don't get it, you seem smart in some ways but other ways..a big blind spot.

I didn't say they live to be a million, you misunderstood my point.

I will explain to you about how they would spread. Artificially intelligent robotic spaceships would go from star system to star system , replicating on the resources they found in each system and moving forward. Since the Milky Way is 100,000 light years across, if they travel at half the speed of light it would take each ship 200,000 light years to get across. Now we must factor in some time for the robotic entities to replicate at each generation. That is why I give it a million years, it could be shorter or longer but you get the general idea. There is no 'magic' involved in this scheme, it's most likely acheivable by human created robots in the next 100-200 years or so.

Now since you laugh at an entity living for 1 million years. A robot, which could download it's 'brain' into a newly created robot,would live forever (as would a human). This is very simple common sense stuff.

Your 'vast space' is nothing but a transatlantic trip to an essentially immortal entity. And that is where thinking too much along human lines interferes with logic.

maninasia

maccored wrote: »

eh?

you can prove aliens visit the earth because the mily way is approx 100,000 light years in diameter? You arent really looking for prove of aliens really - you're just trying to tell me they exist.

No I'm telling you that

a) If you first think alien civilisations exist

then

b) Most likely many thousands of civilisations exist, some of these have existed since billions of years ago and they most likely have passed through (and some remain) in our area of the Milky Way. It is extremely unlikely, statistically speaking, that only one civilisation would exist and that this/these civilisations have yet to emerge. They will emerge in a variety of times and places...some prior to us, some at the same time and some in the future!

(the argument is based on the distribution of events...basically by the very fact of something occuring and somebody observing this it's very unlikely to be the only time it occurred..it will most likely have occurred already multiple times and will occur multiple times in the future, being a by-product of the laws of nature...that's why to think of Earth as the only place with life is highly ridiculous..a bit like seeing a fish in a pond and thinking it is the only fish in the world just because you don't live near the ocean and have never been seen it....the very existence of us, the fish in the pond, almost certainly means there is an ocean of fish out there!)

To recap-
Look at the age of the universe..12 billion years old.
Look at the width of the Milky Way...100,000 light years across
Look at the number of possible habitable earths in the Milky Way..100 million
It's also likely that other life-forms exist from other evolutionary processes we don't know about

maninasia

maccored wrote: »

eh?

you can prove aliens visit the earth because the mily way is approx 100,000 light years in diameter? You arent really looking for proof of aliens really - you're just trying to tell me they exist.

Im sticking to what I said, as I think its a bridge too far to start claiming that aliens live in our backyard. it isnt the most logical of answers.

I've explained very clearly why IT IS the most logical of answers..if you think that alien civlisations exist. It would be illogical to think they have never visited or not in the vicinity.

Nowhere have I said aliens are visiting Earth. But I can see that as being very likely IF they exist. And since I think it's likely they exist then yes I do strongly guess they have visited or will be around somewhere. AND since I believe it highly likely that they have visited and we are still going on our merry way for millions of years then I think there is nothing to worry about, contrary to Stephen Hawking's views on the subject.

dyer

i would also imagine any civilisation traversing the galaxy or galaxies would do so by colonization, much like science predicts humans will eventually move out into space.. that is unless of course alien civilisations have pioneered wormhole travel, making that theory somewhat redundant. there is also the paradox of how time is slowed when one approaches the speed of light.. light is ageless, unlike matter in the universe, it exists in an ageless state where time is standing still.

are any of you familiar with the carlos diaz case?

you can watch a docu about it here : Ships of Light - The Carlos Diaz UFO Experience

Expert analysis of Carlos Diaz's UFO pictures has been extremely thorough. Mexican UFOlogist Jaime Maussan gave the original transparencies to Professor Victor Quesada at the Polytechnical Institute of the University of Mexico for examination. Quesada stated: 'We were shocked to discover that the spectrum of light from the object was unlike anything we have ever seen, it broke all previous parameters and didn't match anything in our data banks. The light was extraordinarily intense. There was no evidence of superimposition or a hoax. We estimated the object to be around 30 to 50 metres in diameter.' Interestingly, the photographs were also analysed by Dr Robert Nathan at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California. Nathan, a notorious UFO sceptic, stated that he could find no evidence of a fake.

The apparent credibility of the Diaz case has also attracted UFO researchers from further afield, who have attempted to glean insights into the alien agenda from Diaz's contactee claims. German author Michael Hesemann, who first interviewed Diaz in June 1994, is convinced of the credibility of Diaz's story. 'Not only is he contacting these beings through encounters on the ships,' says Hesemann, 'but he claims to be meeting these beings socially, since he believes some of them are living among us.' However Hesemann explains that, according to Diaz, the beings are reluctant to fully disclose their origins. 'Apparently,' says Hesemann, 'they did, however, explain that they have been visiting Earth for thousands of years, and are particularly interested in our evolution which, compared to their own, has happened at a much faster rate. They are trying to learn why.'

Diaz told Mack that his contact with the ETs had instilled in him a need to preserve the environment and the ability to 'enjoy a beautiful planet'. Whether or not an extraterrestrial influence was involved, Diaz's new-found concern for the environment has certainly become a driving force in his life. he has repeatedly and passionately conveyed this environmental warning publicly, most notably at a UFO conference in Dusseldorf, Germany in 1995. Diaz has revealed that he had been informed through his contacts that the civilization of the visiting extraterrestrial, like ours, had been threatened by its own history of destruction, but had somehow managed to survive. He remains convinced that his contacts' disturbing prediction for our future is only too real - a prediction that states with near certainty that humanity, on its current course, is headed for total extinction.

Mexican UFOlogist Jaime maussan was so intrigued by Carlos Diaz's account of his experiences that he provided him with a video camera and asked him to see if he could record the UFO on tape when it next appeared. A few weeks later, Diaz awoke at 5 a.m. and grabbed his camera. he walked out and waited. Apparently, within minutes, the craft appeared and hovered over the house, where Diaz filmed it. When Maussan saw the remarkable footage, he asked Diaz if he could get even closer to the craft while filming. Two months later, Diaz was once again able to film the craft, which this time hovered directly above him, without moving.

However it is Diaz's third attempt to capture the craft on video that is the most spectacular. In this footage, Diaz having mounted his camera on a tripod, walks to the bottom of a field waving a flash light. Responding to this, the craft suddenly materializes directly above Diaz's head and sends beams of light down towards him. Then, the unidentified object remains motionless for 30 seconds, before blinking out. It is universally recognized that this video contains some of the best UFO footage ever taken.

good interview here on Gary MicKinnon who 'hacked' NASA's computer database..

Project Camelot interviews Gary McKinnon

Zombrex

Professor Victor Quesada wrote:

'We were shocked to discover that the spectrum of light from the object was unlike anything we have ever seen, it broke all previous parameters and didn't match anything in our data banks."

That really doesn't sound like something someone serious would say. The "spectrum of light from the object" would be irrelevant since it has been recorded on film and video. The film camera or video camera cannot store spectrums of light outside of what we have already seen, or what is in Prof Quesada's "data banks", what ever the heck that means (what is a data bank of light spectrums?).

I would be surprised if Prof. Quesada actually said anything like this.

maccored

maninasia wrote: »

Nowhere have I said aliens are visiting Earth. But I can see that as being very likely IF they exist. And since I think it's likely they exist then yes I do strongly guess they have visited or will be around somewhere. AND since I believe it highly likely that they have visited and we are still going on our merry way for millions of years then I think there is nothing to worry about, contrary to Stephen Hawking's views on the subject.

I am with you ont he fact theres a good chance aliens exist. I lose you though on your logic that *if* they exist, then its likely they visit earth - or to put it in your words, 'almost certainly in our backyard already for a very long time!'. (which sounds to me like you were suggesting aliens are visiting Earth). nevermind assuming they'd be friendly. If, as someone suggested, aliens explore by colonisation, then that wouldnt bode well for the 'peaceful alien' idea.

gbee

dyer wrote: »

Should not the study of attempting to prove the existence of extraterristrial life not belong to the sciences?;)

It does. SETI.

maccored

anyone try googling Professor Victor Quesada and/or university or mexico? Nearly all direct references to a professor called Professor Victor Quesada point back to that story

I cant even find a reference to him on the main university of mexico website.

maccored

gbee wrote: »

It does. SETI.

they have a nifty screensaver that processes data on your own machine and then sends them the results. Ive all my machines running those.

maninasia

Be careful about that screensaver, some say it's in alliance with the evil alien coalition to infect our planet's IT systems

Maccored, I'm trying to explain the logic from a few books I have read on probability of life existing from a statistical standpoint, but because I am not gifted at maths I'm failing badly. Basically the example of 1 (us) points to a very high likeliehood of huge numbers of other civilisations existing also (given the size and age of the universe and what we know about chemical processes and numbers of planets etc.).

One example is like this

A likely scenario
START YEAR OF SPACE-FARING CIVILISATIONS APPEARING IN MILKY WAY

3 billion years ago
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,, 13, 14,15,16,17.. 25,663 (Earth civilisation)....25,666 (Current total number of civilisations)

CURRENT YEAR 2010


vs

A very unlikely scenario
START YEAR OF SPACE-FARING CIVILISATIONS APPEARING IN MILKY WAY

3 billion years ago

1 (Earth Space-Faring Civilisation)

CURRENT YEAR 2010


So given the long period that life has existed on Earth (billions of years, life seems very stable and robust but seems hard to get intelligent species to evolve, at least from our limited example, but it DID HAPPEN) this we must assume a very high likeliehood that civlisations have already spread through all or large parts of the galaxy. Why will they spread?

This is where the theory of evolution and the search for new niches and living space and effects of competition come in. Some may also have scientific or religious curiousity like our own species.

The galaxy is not that big to travel around over long-time scales. So if a space faring civilisation has existed millions/billions of years prior to us it is really not difficult to imagine they know of us here already and that there are probably living entities in our vicinity (again from theory of evolution, spread into new territories, ecosystems, once life is established it tends to be very robust, it's doesn't go and 'off' itself, that should especially be the case in space faring civilisations which could die out in certain parts due to natural/artificial disasters but be repopulated from other areas of the galaxy that weren't effected).

Aliens will be life forms and we all follow the game rules of evolution, competition between and within species and seach for new resources and areas to live. I certainly think there should be aliens in our vicinity of the solar system or at least they are aware of our existence (life on Earth and also human life has existed for a long time and easily detectable by civilisations with technology just slightly more advanced than us many light years away). But we may not be that special on the cosmic order of things, still a lot of unknowns. Basically it is far from ridiculous to think that there are aliens around (scientifically speaking) and if there are reports of strange unknown phenonomena they deserve to be treated with an open mind first.

maninasia

maccored wrote: »

anyone try googling Professor Victor Quesada and/or university or mexico? Nearly all direct references to a professor called Professor Victor Quesada point back to that story

I cant even find a reference to him on the main university of mexico website.

Good on you for checking, I'm suspicious as to his existence to. There is no way to measure a 'spectrum' of light from a photo or video. You need a spectrophotometer to do it at the actual light source! That statement is made up!

I've checked this story, I'm suspicious of new-age stuff. It looks like a pot-plant shaking, not a tree in the video. I don't care about what experts say...it just does not look like a tree movement.
It's probably what it looks like, a model on a string.

gbee

maninasia wrote: »

So given the long period that life has existed on Earth (billions of years, life seems very stable and robust but seems hard to get intelligent species to evolve,.

Given that we are in the third wave of Galaxies, we could consider ourselves the youngsters.

Our older brothers are probably at the stage where their planet is no longer supporting life, so going on a voyage of survival would be a logical thing for them to do.

I'm not sure aliens visit and go home again. I also think that in ancient texts, one could substitute references to 'God' for 'Aliens' ~ that's not a new concept by any means, but I do believe we've been visited

gbee

maninasia wrote: »

if there are reports of strange unknown phenonomena they deserve to be treated with an open mind first.

Sadly the vast majority easily explained and even more sadly the very vast majority of the remaining are crackpots. And a few more are secret developmental aircraft.

And things are compounded by deliberate hoaxes too.

gbee

History channel,"Ancient Aliens"

One tribe describes their "father" coming from a double star system where the suns orbit the planet.

Interesting how some religions believed this of us here on Earth. Hmmmmm

dyer

anyone try googling Professor Victor Quesada and/or university or mexico? Nearly all direct references to a professor called Professor Victor Quesada point back to that story

I cant even find a reference to him on the main university of mexico website.

couldnt find a thing about him myself..

not sure what the data bank itself refers to either, perhaps a database of visible light spectrums relating to observed stars, planets etc?

maninasia

gbee wrote: »

Sadly the vast majority easily explained and even more sadly the very vast majority of the remaining are crackpots. And a few more are secret developmental aircraft.

And things are compounded by deliberate hoaxes too.

I know very well all the points you made here. The vast majority are human caused or misobservations of celestial phenomena.
But the fact is there are many reports that don't fit into this description. Many people are not crackpots who are reporting these things, and most who have seen something that could be described as a UFO don't even tell anybody!

There goes the open mind :rolleyes:

There are also proven but rare phenomena such as earth lights and lights associated with earthquake activity which have yet to be explained by science.

maninasia

gbee wrote: »

Given that we are in the third wave of Galaxies, we could consider ourselves the youngsters.

Our older brothers are probably at the stage where their planet is no longer supporting life, so going on a voyage of survival would be a logical thing for them to do.

I'm not sure aliens visit and go home again. I also think that in ancient texts, one could substitute references to 'God' for 'Aliens' ~ that's not a new concept by any means, but I do believe we've been visited

What about evolution? You think civilisations and species remain static, they they won't spread and evolve and diverge?

gbee

maninasia wrote: »

What about evolution? You think civilisations and species remain static, they they won't spread and evolve and diverge?

I think they have to, our inhabitable planetary systems only offers a relatively brief period in a comfort zone. We are in a sweet period on our own planet, but we are facing many global catastrophes and the planet may become uninhabitable for us [soon].

We might not escape, there simply may not be the time left for us to develop the technologies to enable a partial evacuation of Earth.

We know our development was held up by the ruling dominant species, namely the mighty dinosaurs, for some 350,000,000 years or so. Suppose their reign had been shortened by just 1% we'd have had another 350,000 years of development, and surely now, if we were not fighting over who God was for all that time, would be planet evacuation ready and ready in time to go forth and explore and populate a bit more.

I actually fear that we've missed the boat and only a rescue by our more advanced brothers can save the day now.

maninasia

I think you forget that the future 'us' is going to be completely different than the present 'us'. It's coming fast now. Man and machine and all that.

dyer

in regard to SETI and its search for extraterrestrial intelligence, it might very well be possible that we arent listening for the right signals, with the size of the universe and the amount of time it takes to study parts of the sky, its akin to searching for an atom in an ocean and the chances of being in the right place at the right time to receive such a signal.. statistically, im sure that is quite stupendous the only signal of any real interest discovered by the SETI project was dubbed the WOW signal, it was found on the hydrogen frequency, you can read about that here .. http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=867

obviously, weve only been sending out signals since the first radio broadcasts were transmitted less than a hundred years ago. as these waves travel near and relatively close the speed of light, we can gather that they must have travelled at least 50-90 light years away from earth, taking into account the affect of attenuation, its not certain how far the signals will actually travel. of course the same is true in reverse, for any signals we might be looking for, might not reach us, and if they do.. well it might have been such a long time ago that civilization might not even exist anymore! kind of mind boggling stuff really

likewise, up until 1997 or so, popular science laughed at the notion of other 'earth' like planets in the universe until of course it was proven to be true, and with the help of the recent launch of kepler, more than a hundred candidates have already been discovered. considering the grand size of the universe that number will surely grow ad finitum. it has been theorised that the edge or black wall of our universe, where we currently cannot see beyond, an event horizon so to speak.. might actually be the centre of the universe.. imagine that! although we can now tell the composition in the atmosphere of a given planet, our search for life is based on the assumption and model of life that has evolved here on earth.. in a nutshell, the existence of water. we search for water and we find life, which is all well and good, but life might have evolved in an infinite number of different ways on other planets.. with a different 'primordial soup', and all the other physical forces, who knows exactly whats out there or whats even possible. is it possible life exists in another dimension right next to our own? science actually suggests such things might be conceivable. anyway, theres only one thing certain in all of this.. if you dont ask, youll never know!